I took out my first ag loan at 16. Damn straight I understood interest and my responsibilities.

How am I whining? All I said was my experience with people who got those degrees

So this case ha to be announced tomorrow, correct?

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College is a scam that has now been pushed on the last several generations as the only way to succeed in life.

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It's exploitation, plain and simple. It's taking young, naive CHILDREN and coercing them to take on a life a debt slavery that they cannot get out of.

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You are making great points.

Have you seen this moving on the matter?

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Anyway, a country's economy thrives by people having purchasing power. The college ponzi scheme is destroying the purchasing power for many in the 20-40 age group.

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Meanwhile some schools are starting programs for disabled young people. Their loving and well meaning parents can also take out $10-40,000 in loans to pay for it. Debt financing seems to be the business model here.

The people who say "We you can get it forgiven with PSLF...." have missed this:

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For many years, student loan borrowers were not given clear information on the eligibility criteria of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. The Department of Education and its contracted loan servicers did a poor job communicating the requirements to borrowers, and sometimes actively misled them.

As a result, many borrowers thought they had made substantial progress towards loan forgiveness, only to find out later that they were making payments on the wrong type of loan, or under the wrong type of repayment plan. So when student loan borrowers were first eligible to to apply for forgiveness in late 2017, the program had an abysmal approval rate of 1%. In other words, 99% of borrowers who applied for the loan forgiveness were rejected.Link

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The democRATS made a career out of touting their programs and <2% of those who applied ACTUALLY GOT PAID.

Unsure when you graduated, but I noticed after 2005 most universities ramped up their student population, govt loans were being issued faster that NINJ house loans and Universities expanded with nice facilities and amenities. Apartment complexes looked less like slums and more like resorts. Universities figured out that govt cash was their best benefactor and students were the channel.

sam callahan said:

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I took out my first ag loan at 16. Damn straight I understood interest and my responsibilities.

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Whoa
Federal loan?

the_batman26 said:

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Then I think trades need to be better promoted. Because young people feel pushed to go to school by their elders and obtain a degree of any kind that was supposed to sustain a living. Now a BA is the bare minimum and requires some postgraduate bolstering, with law probably the best option, but even it is risky. A BS will do much better, though.

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In most cases, you will get much farther with a bachelors degree but not all encompassing. Most of the jobs I have I could not have even interviewed for without a degree.

It comes down to maturity. If these people are too immature to understand what a contract to pay money back on a loan is, they shouldn't be taking it out I don't care what they see down their future.

And if they do take it out, they're going to honor the terms and commitments.

If they don't, then I have no sympathy for them.

When I bought my first car at 23 I knew I and I alone was responsible for those payments.

When I bought my first home at 30 I knew that I and I alone was responsible for those payments.

And guess what? I paid them off, never thought of defaulting never complain that people were being mean to me, or took advantage of me.

Quit giving excuses for people to be stupid and irresponsible.

And remember, Democrats say that these people that are too irresponsible to take out a loan can chop off parts of their body and become a different sex, even as children bear. That's where we are right now.

The whole damn country needs to grow the **** up.

Teslag said:

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Bexar Ag said:

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A lot of people against student loan forgiveness, are fine with increased military spending

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One is a public good and one is an individual benefit

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Meanwhile we are taxed to pay for "Individual benefit" for high school students.

fc2112 said:

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So this case ha to be announced tomorrow, correct?

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Yes, 10AM EDT.

Hell no. I'm surprised there's as many people willing to give even an inch on this. Make it dischargeable in bankruptcy like other loans and the problem solves itself.

Where is the responsibility? Where were the parents guiding their kids towards valuable degrees? Why the hell is this my problem? Inevitably, there would be some people who paid their last payment just before this forgiveness. What happens to them? Or what about me who never went into debt? We get shafted? How is that even remotely fair? Once again, we're talking about bailing out the irresponsible at the expense of the responsible. And you expect the bad decision making to stop after this?

Govt needs to get out of 98% of what it already meddles in. And 100% of education. We spend more than any other country on ed and we're quite a ways down the list. Plus it's getting worse. Everything govt touches turns to ***** And they just keep getting their hands into more and more things.

Bexar Ag said:

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A lot of people against student loan forgiveness, are fine with increased military spending

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So silly. I'm for massive reductions in all areas of government.

Gov't shouldn't forgive the loans; but they should implement penalties on colleges and banks for predatory loan practices and disincentivize the loaning of money to kids for college

Nope. Bank loan.

If the government is going to forgive these loans then, the government needs to get out of the student loan business...period.

Let the market take over. This would have the effect of forced downsizing of university administration and worthless studies departments.

SpreadsheetAg said:

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Gov't shouldn't forgive the loans; but they should implement penalties on colleges and banks for predatory loan practices and disincentivize the loaning of money to kids for college

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Universities have figured out the gravy train of govt money.
Notice how opulent universities are now?

RockTXAggie said:

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It's exploitation, plain and simple. It's taking young, naive CHILDREN and coercing them to take on a life a debt slavery that they cannot get out of.

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The solution isn't to give these children blank checks. The solution is parents need to parent and make sure their kids understand the debt they're about to get in to. If they are too young to understand that then maybe they're too young for college and need to get a job for a while until they do understand it. Maybe then they'll understand that a degree in french literature probably isn't going to pay the bills.

sam callahan said:

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Nope. Bank loan.

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I have never heard of a someone under 18 getting a bank loan in Texas as an individual off the street.
You have additional information like a cosigner, grandad owned the bank, large cash balance.

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Texas Finance Code Sec. 34.305(e)--- Subsection (a) does not authorize a loan to the minor by the bank, whether on pledge of the minor's savings account or otherwise, or bind the minor to repay a loan made except as provided by Subsection (b) or other law or unless the depository institution has obtained the express consent and joinder of a parent or legal guardian of the minor.

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Good for you at being a standup guy.
Cattle?

TexAgs91 said:

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RockTXAggie said:

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It's exploitation, plain and simple. It's taking young, naive CHILDREN and coercing them to take on a life a debt slavery that they cannot get out of.

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The solution isn't to give these children blank checks. The solution is parents need to parent and make sure their kids understand the debt they're about to get in to. If they are too young to understand that then maybe they're too young for college and need to get a job for a while until they do understand it. Maybe then they'll understand that a degree in french literature probably isn't going to pay the bills.

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I cannot give you enough stars here sir.

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Make it dischargeable in bankruptcy like other loans and the problem solves itself.

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You actually could do this in the 1970s.
There were always stories about some MD or lawyer who did this.

The problem is that federal student loans aren't really meant to allow 18 year olds to go to college. It's a socially acceptable way of funneling government tax dollars to their cronies. It shouldn't be lost on anybody that politicians and higher ups in college administration are usually one and the same. How many politicians "retire" to be a Dean, or tenured professor, or college president? They are following the grift that they put in place.

Federal student loans should be completely eliminated. Forgive the debt and allow no more to be issued.

Private banks can continue to loan money with their own risk assessments. Colleges will either adjust or close.

I'm no Democrat, but Millenials/Gen-Z have been told all their lives that college was the only way. And generations older than them are taking full advantage of that premise. The dollar for us now doesn't go nearly as far as it did ten years ago or more, and in education that inflation is by design.

Bexar Ag said:

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You really expect a 17 year old to know how contracts and interest work? What world do you live in

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Absolutely.

Attorneys can get their loans forgiven if they do, I think, 10 years of public service. 10 years of doing government work at anywhere from $40k to $80k a year.

I really don't think some adults know what an arbitration clause is, much less a 17 year old.

Why should government employees be allowed forgiveness but not private sector employees? The precedent has been set. It should be allowed for everyone.

https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

I'll only agree to the loan forgiveness plans if these criteria are met:

A - the recipient isn't allowed to vote in a local, state, or federal election until the amortization schedule of their loan ends. I.E. - if my loan schedule at the time of forgiveness has me projected to pay them off on 9/15/2035, I cannot vote until that day. Felony penalty for attempting to vote for control someone else's vote.

*If the recipient decides they want to pay back what was forgiven they can regain their voting rights. They would have to pay back the amount they would have paid from forgiveness until repayment, with interest. Then they can vote again and resume paying remainder with the original schedule.

B - how long does bankruptcy stay on your credit score? However long that is, the recipient can't obtain credit for that many years.

*I'd accomodate obtaining credit for up to a certain amount or maybe even multiple of the forgiven loan. Defaulting on any of that credit however would also put the loan back on the books, with interest.

C - There needs to be a continually monitored list of degrees that are forbidden to pay for with loans.

*If a shool wants to offer the degree the school is free to provide scholarships for the degree. Those schollies cannot touch public funding - they have to be covered by donors who are acknowledge how their money will be used.

D - the amount forgiven is 100% taxable, due within X years of the forgiveness date.

*I'm open to determining how X is calculated.

I Am A Critic said:

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Why should government employees be allowed forgiveness but not private sector employees? The precedent has been set. It should be allowed for everyone.

https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

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As posted above, PSLF has an 1.8% acceptance rate.

PSLF is the third biggest LIE in the US right now.
Less than 2% actually do.

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The Department of Education's report says that so far, about 29,000 borrowers have applied to have their student loans forgiven under PSLF.
How many have been granted forgiveness? 96.

Link

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No rich grandad. No rich anybody. I grew up in a 20 year old mobile home.

My dad was a co-signer.

But the question was can a 17 year old understand interest and a loan contract.

I understood and I paid it back.

It would benefit me, but I'm against it. That being said, I'm indifferent at this point. The economic consequences of injecting that money into the economy have already been realized. The only result of overturning it at this point is an instant reduction in consumer spending which will catapult us into a recession.

Basically, the libs did what they always do. Implement a bull**** policy knowing it will get tied up in courts, reap short term political benefits, and cause all sorts of long term damage as a result of not knowing a damn thing about economics. The inflation is here to stay regardless of whether this is reversed.

Forgiving student loans is pointless if you don't address what is caused the issue in the first place. Just forgiving student loans and doing nothing else would actually cause an increase in the cost of college and the amount of people throwing themselves into unsustainable debt.

sam callahan said:

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No rich grandad. No rich anybody. I grew up in a 20 year old mobile home.

My dad was a co-signer.

But the question was can a 17 year old understand interest and a loan contract.

I understood and I paid it back.

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The loan only happened because your dad was the co-signer.
Was it short term for crops or cattle?

In the modern era the mantra is all about getting paid:
CEOs rake in huge sums when their companies go bankrupt

I think you are giving 18-22 year olds too much of a pass for picking terrible majors. I was extremely interest in history, political science, economics, etc. I briefly considered them as majors. Then I sat down and looked what jobs I could get with that career path and what the potential earning power was. The ROI was terrible. So I choose accounting/finance instead. The first 3 were hobbies that could support my knowledge base for accounting/finance. 18-22 year olds should be adults and think about those things.

That being said, the current process is screwed up. Colleges are getting rich off the student loan diploma mill and the lack of being able to discharge them in bankruptcy is destroying people's lives forever.

Loans need to be merit based and you should be presenting a case on how you pay them back and that you are succeeding in your major academically. Not everyone needs to go to college. Especially to major in something that has no tangible economic value.

cone said:

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forgiving the loans takes the colleges off the hook

make the loans dischargeable in bankruptcy

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if the loans are discharged in bankruptcy the college are still off the hook unless you make them underwrite the loans. I would be for that because it would force colleges to only offer loans where there is a positive ROI.

Kvetch said:

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…The economic consequences of injecting that money into the economy have already been realized. The only result of overturning it at this point is an instant reduction in consumer spending which will catapult us into a recession.

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No, the consequences are not already realized and we are already in a recession. We need more productive output not consumer spending. These people need to take a haircut and live more modestly within their means. Or, I don't know, maybe learn a trade that's actually useful and grow their earning potential instead of demanding bailouts?

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The inflation is here to stay regardless of whether this is reversed.

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Inflation is a result of monetary policy and stupid government meddling that has been going on for decades. Sure some of it is baked into the cake but this is adding more fuel to the fire. I guess it's only a trillion or so right? How long until we shrug off a quadrillion govt debacle?

And I'll repeat my questions again. How in the hell is it fair that millions of people before paid their way through or paid off their loans and now all of a sudden it gets forgiven? And more importantly, why should I or anyone else have to pay for this? Wouldn't it be more fair to just give everyone $50k and call it settled? That's insanely inflationary, but at least it's fair. Disgusting that this is even being considered.

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The loan only happened because your dad was the co-signer.
Was it short term for crops or cattle?

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I never claimed otherwise. I stated I understood interest and the terms of the loan. Including having to create a written business plan with contingencies for actions if the cattle market dropped.

I also took out student loans as an 18 year old and knew what I was doing then, too.

You sure need a lot of detail that goes way beyond the point at hand. The banker's not quite dead yet. Should I send you his nursing home address?