[These arguments need to be made without the name calling. Same goes for all users on here. - Staff]

It's also funny..

Rosticus originally asked for a link of this vote on the union referendum in Ukraine back in 91. He didn't even know it had occurred. Then he edited his post and got rid of that request after he did his own research. Then he laid down more propaganda. Lol.

10thYrSr said:

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I'm amazed at the level of discord that the war in Ukraine has caused on this board. Users have divided themselves Into camps on either side. The amount of vitriol on each side is fascinating!

I can easily imagine that this was how it was in the American Civil War and the American Revolution as well if they had the internet then.

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Pro Ukraine 80% - pro communists 20% !

The Biden cartel has been exploiting Ukraine for years. The corruption in that government rivals any third world dictatorship yet somehow they are our "friends". Now we're throwing your hard earned money (debt) at them and for what reason? What's in it for us versus the EU?

Be honest, did you squawk at wars in the Middle East because of money? My guess is you did, so what's changed? Have we suddenly gotten a hold on our debt and outrageous domestic spending?

What does "victory" in Ukraine buy us? A sense of security?

The Democrat party is full of Marxists now. We are two Dem senators away from the end of the Republic. Also, Putin is a tyrannical dictator not a communist.

We force Russia to pick either siding with Europe and maintaining some semblance of independence, or siding with China and becoming their *****.

Whether or not that gamble is worth the cost is up to you. I don't think it was, for the record. Hopefully it works out for the people who thought so, because the alternative situation will suck for the US.

Logos Stick said:

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It's also funny..

Rosticus originally asked for a link of this vote on the union referendum in Ukraine back in 91. He didn't even know it had occurred. Then he edited his post and got rid of that request after he did his own research. Then he laid down more propaganda. Lol.

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It's good that you supplied the rt.com linky.

Oh wait. You just quoted it. Why not just own it?

Couldn't be any Russian propaganda in the new Pravda, could there?

One can easily, and should, question our funding and support for this war WITHOUT having to cite and reiterate Russian propaganda. The CIA, state department, and neocons have enough warts to form reasoned arguments against our involvement. If people are going to directly cite and put forward the exact arguments of the kremlin, which is the swamp of swamps, don't get upset when you get labeled Ivan.

Teslag said:

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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

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2 types of posters on this board...

1. Idiots that regurgitate propaganda fed to them by the msm ad nauseam

2. Critical thinkers that dgaf about Ukraine or Russia, and simply want American money to be spent in America


& yes type 1 like to call people Ivan bc their iq is too low to have worthwhile debate

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Which group do the OP and the 108 people that started his post belong to?

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3375863/1#discussion


It's also telling that the "critical thinkers" need to often outright cite Russian propaganda accounts. You will eschew any American sources of info yet isntantly cling to Russian propaganda as long as it fits your narrati… I mean "critical thinking".

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All sources are propaganda. The same "American Intel experts" are the people who told us the Afghan army could defend Afghanistan, Iraq had WMD, ad nauseam. No source on any side should be believed.

Teslag said:

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One can easily, and should, question our funding and support for this war WITHOUT having to cite and reiterate Russian propaganda. The CIA, state department, and neocons have enough warts to form reasoned arguments against our involvement. If people are going to directly cite and put forward the exact arguments of the kremlin, which is the swamp of swamps, don't get upset when you get labeled Ivan.

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BigRobSA said:

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Count me on the side that gives zero ****s about either Ukraine, or Russia.

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If you don't signal outwardly to others that your heart bleeds for Ukraine, you are a die hard Putin fanboy and love Russia.

Show me where the referendum vote to remain in the union did not occur in Ukraine with 70% support in March.

Show me where the coup did not occur.

Show me where two days after the failed coup, the blocs all voted for independence.

Those are facts which are in the article. If they are false, show me please.

Is this negative statement from the article also propaganda:

"In Ukraine's western parts, around Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol, however, the majority of the population voted against the preservation of the USSR."

And then they voted overwhelmingly for independence. 28.8 million to 2.4 million, with every single oblast voting in favor, including the east and Crimea

GAC06 said:

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And then they voted overwhelmingly for independence. 28.8 million to 2.4 million, with every single oblast voting in favor, including the east and Crimea

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Well, as long as they voted for independence, that makes them sovereign right? One just has to vote to be their own country, they don't have to actually back up that vote with action. Got it.

Can Texas vote for independence? We should then be able to go to the world and demand they support us because we voted and thus we are sovereign.

Seems simple enough.

Using poll results to justify UKE wanting to be a Russian vassal, but disregarding later poll results showing they don't want to be a Russian vassal seems very dishonest.

Russia recognized their independence and pledged to guarantee their territorial integrity. Your "no one is sovereign" argument is and always has been ludicrous.

GAC06 said:

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And then they voted overwhelmingly for independence. 28.8 million to 2.4 million, with every single oblast voting in favor, including the east and Crimea

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And? Obviously they did, they are independent like all the other blocs. I never claimed otherwise. This issue is the neocon narrative that it was some sort of equivalent to the American Revolution with a house divided that led to the split. It's nonsense. No state in their right mind would vote to remain in this country under new terms if a coup attempt a few days before signing a declaration to join under those terms.

fka ftc said:

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GAC06 said:

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And then they voted overwhelmingly for independence. 28.8 million to 2.4 million, with every single oblast voting in favor, including the east and Crimea

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Well, as long as they voted for independence, that makes them sovereign right? One just has to vote to be their own country, they don't have to actually back up that vote with action. Got it.

Can Texas vote for independence? We should then be able to go to the world and demand they support us because we voted and thus we are sovereign.

Seems simple enough.

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This is won't be understood by the Hoi polloi

GAC06 said:

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Russia recognized their independence and pledged to guarantee their territorial integrity. Your "no one is sovereign" argument is and always has been ludicrous.

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People who can defend their own territory and control their people is what determines if someone is sovereign.

Not votes and pledges and promises. Read the manual.

Teslag said:

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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

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2 types of posters on this board...

1. Idiots that regurgitate propaganda fed to them by the msm ad nauseam

2. Critical thinkers that dgaf about Ukraine or Russia, and simply want American money to be spent in America


& yes type 1 like to call people Ivan bc their iq is too low to have worthwhile debate

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Which group do the OP and the 108 people that started his post belong to?

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3375863/1#discussion


It's also telling that the "critical thinkers" need to often outright cite Russian propaganda accounts. You will eschew any American sources of info yet isntantly cling to Russian propaganda as long as it fits your narrati… I mean "critical thinking".

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Ive never gotten an answer from you: How does my life materially improve if Russia collapeses?

Teslag said:

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And then they unrecognized it.

fka ftc said:

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GAC06 said:

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Russia recognized their independence and pledged to guarantee their territorial integrity. Your "no one is sovereign" argument is and always has been ludicrous.

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People who can defend their own territory and control their people is what determines if someone is sovereign.

Not votes and pledges and promises. Read the manual.

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So basically the only sovereign nations are China and the US, because those two could run over the defenses of every other nation?

Teslag said:

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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

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2 types of posters on this board...

1. Idiots that regurgitate propaganda fed to them by the msm ad nauseam

2. Critical thinkers that dgaf about Ukraine or Russia, and simply want American money to be spent in America


& yes type 1 like to call people Ivan bc their iq is too low to have worthwhile debate

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Which group do the OP and the 108 people that started his post belong to?

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3375863/1#discussion


It's also telling that the "critical thinkers" need to often outright cite Russian propaganda accounts. You will eschew any American sources of info yet isntantly cling to Russian propaganda as long as it fits your narrati… I mean "critical thinking".

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I just noticed I never starred that post. Its up to 111 now and counting. Soon it will have enough stars to where we have to recognize the post as its own sovereign country because evidently simple voting is all it takes according to some.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Teslag said:

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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

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2 types of posters on this board...

1. Idiots that regurgitate propaganda fed to them by the msm ad nauseam

2. Critical thinkers that dgaf about Ukraine or Russia, and simply want American money to be spent in America


& yes type 1 like to call people Ivan bc their iq is too low to have worthwhile debate

---

Which group do the OP and the 108 people that started his post belong to?

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3375863/1#discussion


It's also telling that the "critical thinkers" need to often outright cite Russian propaganda accounts. You will eschew any American sources of info yet isntantly cling to Russian propaganda as long as it fits your narrati… I mean "critical thinking".

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Ive never gotten an answer from you: How does my life materially improve if Russia collapeses?

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It may not. And that's a valid discussion to have.

fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

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2 types of posters on this board...

1. Idiots that regurgitate propaganda fed to them by the msm ad nauseam

2. Critical thinkers that dgaf about Ukraine or Russia, and simply want American money to be spent in America


& yes type 1 like to call people Ivan bc their iq is too low to have worthwhile debate

---

Which group do the OP and the 108 people that started his post belong to?

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3375863/1#discussion


It's also telling that the "critical thinkers" need to often outright cite Russian propaganda accounts. You will eschew any American sources of info yet isntantly cling to Russian propaganda as long as it fits your narrati… I mean "critical thinking".

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I just noticed I never starred that post. Its up to 111 now and counting. Soon it will have enough stars to where we have to recognize the post as its own sovereign country because evidently simple voting is all it takes according to some.

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1. Don't call me a Russia supporter.

2. Also, I'm pulling for Russia.

Logos Stick said:

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Show me where the referendum vote to remain in the union did not occur in Ukraine with 70% support in March.

Show me where the coup did not occur.

Show me where two days after the failed coup, the blocs all voted for independence.

Those are facts which are in the article. If they are false, show me please.

Is this negative statement from the article also propaganda:

"In Ukraine's western parts, around Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol, however, the majority of the population voted against the preservation of the USSR."

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Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

That's what you're going with?

Teslag said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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Teslag said:

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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

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2 types of posters on this board...

1. Idiots that regurgitate propaganda fed to them by the msm ad nauseam

2. Critical thinkers that dgaf about Ukraine or Russia, and simply want American money to be spent in America


& yes type 1 like to call people Ivan bc their iq is too low to have worthwhile debate

---

Which group do the OP and the 108 people that started his post belong to?

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3375863/1#discussion


It's also telling that the "critical thinkers" need to often outright cite Russian propaganda accounts. You will eschew any American sources of info yet isntantly cling to Russian propaganda as long as it fits your narrati… I mean "critical thinking".

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Ive never gotten an answer from you: How does my life materially improve if Russia collapeses?

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It may not. And that's a valid discussion to have.

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But but but if we can't blame it on Xiden and Comedian Z then why discuss it?

Ag with kids said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Show me where the referendum vote to remain in the union did not occur in Ukraine with 70% support in March.

Show me where the coup did not occur.

Show me where two days after the failed coup, the blocs all voted for independence.

Those are facts which are in the article. If they are false, show me please.

Is this negative statement from the article also propaganda:

"In Ukraine's western parts, around Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol, however, the majority of the population voted against the preservation of the USSR."

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Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

That's what you're going with?

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Lol, from the guy that used an ad hom. Irony.

If those facts are not true, I'd like an education on what happened. I want to learn from you.

BG Knocc Out said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Count me on the side that gives zero ****s about either Ukraine, or Russia.

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If you don't signal outwardly to others that your heart bleeds for Ukraine, you are a die hard Putin fanboy and love Russia.

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And this is why I just gave up on these threads completely. Anything short of offering your own kids to die for Ukraine and somehow, magically, you become a Russian sympathizer with a shirtless Putin fetish. It got exhausting quickly. And for those reasons, I'm out.

fka ftc said:

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GAC06 said:

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Russia recognized their independence and pledged to guarantee their territorial integrity. Your "no one is sovereign" argument is and always has been ludicrous.

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People who can defend their own territory and control their people is what determines if someone is sovereign.

Not votes and pledges and promises. Read the manual.

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NOW it makes more sense why you like Russia so much here....

Teslag said:

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fka ftc said:

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GAC06 said:

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Russia recognized their independence and pledged to guarantee their territorial integrity. Your "no one is sovereign" argument is and always has been ludicrous.

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People who can defend their own territory and control their people is what determines if someone is sovereign.

Not votes and pledges and promises. Read the manual.

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So basically the only sovereign nations are China and the US, because those two could run over the defenses of every other nation?

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Iran and Afghanistan retained their independence from the US so you could add them in.

British have a legit navy, global reach and nukes, so I think they are ok. French are not as they long ago ran out of dishtowels to wave anytime someone gets angry at them.

India and Pakistan both have substantial armies and nukes, so I think they are good on the sovereign grounds. Israel is in a tough spot but they will go down fighting if it ever comes to it.

Let me know in your magical spell book who gets to have never ending sovereignty that can never be questioned and who has to fight for it or who simply never get it.

Your apologists ways are why we have millions of drunk, methed out native americans who cannot build enough casinos to satisfy their habits because bureaucrats felt guilty and decided to give them pretend sovereign status within our borders.

This game is way more complex than you seem to understand.

Logos Stick said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Show me where the referendum vote to remain in the union did not occur in Ukraine with 70% support in March.

Show me where the coup did not occur.

Show me where two days after the failed coup, the blocs all voted for independence.

Those are facts which are in the article. If they are false, show me please.

Is this negative statement from the article also propaganda:

"In Ukraine's western parts, around Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol, however, the majority of the population voted against the preservation of the USSR."

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Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

That's what you're going with?

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Lol, from the guy that used an ad hom. Irony.

If those facts are not true, I'd like an education on what happened. I want to learn from you.

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Ad hom? (my inner Inigo Montoya is chuckling)

Ok...

Oh, and Rossticus actually explained it to you.

Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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GAC06 said:

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Russia recognized their independence and pledged to guarantee their territorial integrity. Your "no one is sovereign" argument is and always has been ludicrous.

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People who can defend their own territory and control their people is what determines if someone is sovereign.

Not votes and pledges and promises. Read the manual.

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NOW it makes more sense why you like Russia so much here....

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So you like anarchy? How very antifa of you.

I prefer law and order. Sorry.

Notice I said "People who" not "A government who" nor "A dictator who" nor "A king who".

I know reading and words are hard for some.

Heres a wiki link.about the March 27th 1991 referendum

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_sovereignty_referendum

Please educate me on what is false in there.