InfantryAg said:
Logos Stick said:
InfantryAg said:
Logos Stick said:
Rossticus said:
Logos Stick said:
That's revisionist propaganda. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine voted to join a Russian Federation of states. The vote was around 80%. Your assertion that in less than one generation, support for Russian unification had dropped to a small minority strains credulity. https://www.csce.gov/international-impact/publications/ukraines-referendum-independence-and-presidential-election
"In an historic referendum/presidential election on December 1, 1991, residents of Ukraine overwhelmingly voted for independence and chose Leonid Kravchuk, the chairman of the republic's Supreme Soviet, as president. Hundreds of foreign observers and correspondents watched as 84 percent of eligible voters went to the polls. Over 90 percent of participants, including many non-Ukrainians, cast ballots for independence."
https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/the-end-of-the-soviet-union/the-end-of-the-soviet-union-texts/ukrainian-independence-declaration/
"Ukraine held a referendum on the Act of Declaration of Independence on 1 December 1991. An overwhelming majority of 92.3% of voters approved the declaration, made by the Verkhovna Rada on 24 August 1991."
Lol, Uh yeah, that was after the failed coup attempt in Russia against Gorbachev. They had voted before that to join Russia.
Had the failed coup never occurred, Ukraine would be part of Russia right now.
Lol, yeah. Talk about moving goalposts, what happened to "Your assertion that in less than one generation, support for Russian unification had dropped to a small minority strains credulity."
Yeah, you called out someone on their credulity while completely loosing yours.
Lol, loosing?
I lost nothing.
Ukraine voted overwhelmingly to join a Russian federation of states. Then the coup attempt happened. At that point, it all fell apart. They all went their separate ways. It had nothing to do with Ukraine being anti Russian, as was implied. It was simply because of the instability.
Yeah, my typing sucks after midnight.
You made a blanket statement without providing a source. You ended that statement saying that Rossticus had no credibility because he asserted that in less than one generation, support for russian unification had dropped to a small minority.
When he replied and provided links about the overwhelming support against reunification, you had to change your blanket statement to a specific, narrower statement (still without providing a source). Even if the Ukrainians reasoning changed because of the august coup, 5 months is slightly less than a generation.
And you think you should be taken credibly on this without any evidence?
The vote for independence happened after the vote to remain in the Russian Federation. It was over 70% support in March of 1991 in Ukraine to remain.
The coup killed it. It had nothing to do with any anti Russian sentiment and the desire to leave. Yes, there were reforms that would be made that Gorb pushed.
The following article explains what happened in detail.
"The seeds of the current political split in Ukraine were sown thirty years ago Rally on Kaluzhskaya Square in Moscow, timed to the anniversary of the All-Union referendum on March 17, 1991 on the preservation of the USSR. Sputnik
Back in early 1991, few thought the disappearance of the Soviet Union from the political map was likely. The results of a huge national referendum held in March indicated as much.
Ukraine's vote exceeded 70%, and public discussion of the joint future for all the socialist republics mainly focused on various forms of a federation....
The 1991 Soviet Union referendum remains the only example of actual democracy in the history of the USSR. The ballot was set for March 17, 1991. Citizens had to answer "Yes" or "No" to the question: "Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, where human rights and freedoms will be guaranteed to all nationalities?"
The referendum showed that despite the growing disagreements, Soviet people wanted to continue living in one big state. 70% of the Ukrainian SSR's population were in favor, and 80% said yes to the republic joining the union of sovereign states on the basis of the Sovereignty Declaration. In Ukraine's western parts, around Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk and Ternopol, however, the majority of the population voted against the preservation of the USSR.
...
It did seem at the time that Gorbachev had received the green light to go on with the reforms and get the New Union Treaty signed. However, due to the failed coup d'tat attempt by the State Committee for the State of Emergency (GKChP), undertaken between August 18 and 21, 1991, to "stop the policies leading to the liquidation of the Soviet Union," the New Union Treaty was not signed as scheduled. These events gave impetus to the disintegration process. In a matter of days, between August 20 and 31, 1991, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan declared their independence"
Yeltzen then implemented many of those reforms in Russia.
As I have correctly stated, the people wanted to remain in a union, with the reforms Gorb was pushing. Had the coup not taken place, the treaty would have been signed and they would be part of that Union today. The neocons have revised history to justify the war. There was no war, no huge initiative or rebellion to get out of the union on the part of Ukraine.
https://www.azerbaycan24.com/en/how-ukrainians-voted-for-the-preservation-of-the-soviet-union-in-1991-but-still-ended-up-in-an-independent-state-later-that-year/
