Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]

277,429 Views | 1587 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
bonfarr
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10:44a, 6/23/23
AG
So Ocean Gate used a Covid PPP loan to cover payroll during Covid when they redesigned and strengthened the hull. The loan was forgiven so US taxpayers were investors in that POS sub. I guess they were able to make the argument social distancing made it impossible to continue operations.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12227079/OceanGate-took-nearly-450-000-PPP-loans-pandemic.html


OceanGate received $447,000 in Paycheck Protection Program loans in 2020
The loans, used to cover payroll during pandemic, were ultimately forgiven
Company spent much of 2020 reinforcing the hull of doomed Titan submersible
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TexasRebel
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In reply to agracer • 10:46a, 6/23/23
AG
agracer said:
bonfarr said:
The Titan had sensors that did some type of scan of the hull that supposedly could warn them when there was a danger of a hull crack. I assume they got an alarm then they signaled the mother ship. The CEOs plan was to ascend as soon as they got an alarm showing they were in danger but we see how that went.
Based on interview's with the CEO I've seen, I'll bet he got multiple alarms on the way down and just ignored them until it was too late.


One thing about trying to surface with an impending failure. At depth, the pressure might actually be helping the integrity of the pressure barrier by forcing the flaws together. Think mismatched puzzle pieces. As you shed depth, that pressure reduces and the flaws grow.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to No Spin Ag • 10:47a, 6/23/23
AG
No Spin Ag said:
TexasRebel said:
Found this.

Go to 3:58 or so.

JFC, that's just insane; what happens to it.


And that's only about 1 atm. Not 320.
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Fall92
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10:53a, 6/23/23
AG
A law school classmate of mine posted the OceanGate release on social media. Can't vouch to the accuracy and haven't read, but thought I'd pass along.


"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be."
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to Fall92 • 10:55a, 6/23/23
Fall92 said:
A law school classmate of mine posted the OceanGate release on social media. Can't vouch to the accuracy and haven't read, but thought I'd pass along.


It reads as if surviving the trip would be the exception, and not what one should expect when going in that death trap.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Fall92 • 10:55a, 6/23/23
AG
Laws of the Bahamas?
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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10:57a, 6/23/23
AG
Point 2 should have given any one of sound mind at least pause to reconsider.

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bmc13
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10:58a, 6/23/23
AG
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JobSecurity
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11:00a, 6/23/23
AG
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Fall92
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:00a, 6/23/23
AG
The vessel's Flag State?

Edit- which would be laws of England.
Edit 2- don't think the indemnity/hold harmless would meet the conspicuousness standards to be enforceable in most U.S. states or under the general maritime law.
"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be."
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aginlakeway
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In reply to Fall92 • 11:02a, 6/23/23
AG
Fall92 said:
A law school classmate of mine posted the OceanGate release on social media. Can't vouch to the accuracy and haven't read, but thought I'd pass along.



#2 would be a HUGE red flag for me.
"I'm sure that won't make a bit of difference for those of you who enjoy a baseless rage over the decisions of a few teenagers."
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Forum Troll
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11:15a, 6/23/23
AG
Love how the website is still up and they still have departure dates for June 2024.
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G Martin 87
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In reply to SPF250 • 11:19a, 6/23/23
AG
SPF250 said:
Dating myself with this, but it seems to fit.
Loved Super Chicken and Fred when I was a youngster, too.
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Gigem314
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In reply to JobSecurity • 11:21a, 6/23/23
AG
JobSecurity said:
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Ornithopter
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In reply to bonfarr • 11:25a, 6/23/23
AG
I don't know if you are aware, but for the most part people just asked for PPP money and then got it.
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aggiehawg
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11:31a, 6/23/23
AG
I don't know who from the government to believe anymore.

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agracer
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In reply to YokelRidesAgain • 11:36a, 6/23/23
AG
YokelRidesAgain said:
agracer said:

Based on interview's with the CEO I've seen, I'll bet he got multiple alarms on the way down and just ignored them until it was too late.
I would be surprised if the Titan had more than one alarm. Maybe you mean it went off multiple times.
yes.

what kills me is this guy was an Aerospace engineer and worked on the F-15 testing programs (with Nasa IIRC) in the 80's/90's. You don't work for a private defense contractor in airplane testing and last long if you're on idiot. Or maybe you do...?
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jrrhouston98
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In reply to Forum Troll • 11:37a, 6/23/23
AG
Forum Troll said:
Love how the website is still up and they still have departure dates for June 2024.


They don't have the passwords to update the website. They went away with the ceo.
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TAMUallen
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:39a, 6/23/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
I don't know who from the government to believe anymore.



We knew it was a crushed can
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AlaskanAg99
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11:40a, 6/23/23
AG
Blocked because they knew it had imploded.
aTm '99
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BBRex
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11:50a, 6/23/23
AG
All this talk about subs and Titanic has me remembering when the Akademik Mstislav Keldysh arrived at the Texas A&M - Galveston campus for the U.S. premiere of an IMAX movie on Titanic. The Keldysh was the support ship for MIR 1 and MIR 2, which actually filmed the IMAX footage of Titanic. I'm pretty sure anyone at TAMUG at the time will remember that visit.

A couple of years after that visit, James Cameron used the ship and its submersibles for his Titanic movie.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:52a, 6/23/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
I don't know who from the government to believe anymore.



"We know what happened and we know where it likely is. We're putting new tech through a live SAT."
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Brian Earl Spilner
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11:58a, 6/23/23
AG
This is gonna be a case study in engineering ethics classes.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 12:07p, 6/23/23
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
This is gonna be a case study in engineering ethics classes.


A good friend is a PE in Washington. I asked him if he thought the state board would go after OceanGate for this. He said their board only goes after kids' science projects and amateur land surveyors. He thought the only that might drive action from the state for bad engineering was it is an election year and the governor and AG want to look like they are tough on unethical professionals.
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Quincey P. Morris
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12:09p, 6/23/23
AG
The more that comes out the more it seems like this guy would be facing some form of criminal charge for all of this had he not been on the sub.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 12:10p, 6/23/23
AG
Likely a short lesson.

"If experts continually warn against your method and material, no external entity will certify your design, and you terminate anyone with dissenting knowledge, it's likely going to kill somebody."
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McInnis 03
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In reply to Gigem314 • 12:13p, 6/23/23
AG
I audibly groaned the second I completed reading the descriptor "shelf life"
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McInnis 03
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 12:14p, 6/23/23
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
This is gonna be a case study in engineering ethics classes.


Nahhhhh.

Gotta have an engineer for there to be any engineering ethics.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Quincey P. Morris • 12:18p, 6/23/23
AG
Quincey P. Morris said:
The more that comes out the more it seems like this guy would be facing some form of criminal charge for all of this had he not been on the sub.
I think so too. Reckless manslaughter.
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Gigem314
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 12:23p, 6/23/23
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
This is gonna be a case study in engineering ethics classes.

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aggiez03
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1:06p, 6/23/23
AG
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ballchain
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7:26p, 6/23/23
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McInnis 03
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7:28p, 6/23/23
AG


I know,I know, inner hull....
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Mathguy64
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7:45p, 6/23/23
AG
I wonder if those young inspirational engineers are going to learn any lessons here?

Whoever thought these build decisions were smart need to find another vocation.
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Greendale 87
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7:56p, 6/23/23
AG
I'm not sure why but I have had an unhealthy fascination with this thread and the topic overall. My summary :

- to the Press. It appears data was out there that there was 99% probability this thing imploded on decent. Enjoy the clicks for carrying the story on. You people are identical to the Money Exchangers Jesus ran out of the square.
- Older folks taking the risk - you do you. Plenty of bodies on Everest making similar decision. I'm not going to criticize that
- Father likely encouraged his 19'year old to join him on this trip - I hope there was a period of time where you knew this thing was imploding, and you had a moment of clarity looking at your son and realizing how selfish and irresponsible you were. Instant vaporization was a very kind outcome for you - I'd have voted for worse

Story over for me folks.
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