Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]

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LMCane
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In reply to BQ78 • 6:53a, 6/23/23
I just hadn't heard any news sources stating that the mother ship had gotten a warning from Titan right before the implosion.

Considering this entire thread for ten pages has been about how instantaneous the destruction would be with zero warning (or less than a second)

then is the supposition that the Titan itself automatically was able to send a warning message AFTER it broke up? not bagging on your expertise, just wondering conceptually how that all could have taken place.

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In reply to LMCane • 6:55a, 6/23/23
There was a distress signal sent to the mother ship before the implosion
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bonfarr
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In reply to LMCane • 7:10a, 6/23/23
AG
The Titan had sensors that did some type of scan of the hull that supposedly could warn them when there was a danger of a hull crack. I assume they got an alarm then they signaled the mother ship. The CEOs plan was to ascend as soon as they got an alarm showing they were in danger but we see how that went.
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TXAG 05
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In reply to LMCane • 7:25a, 6/23/23
AG
LMCane said:
AgsOnDeck said:
fka ftc said:
So much has been discussed in recent years about the Titanic "disintegrating" as bacteria and other processes consume what is consumable.

Question is, once this process becomes more and more advanced, there should be incredible salvage opportunities for the stuff that did not get consumed by the ocean.

At that point, I would be all for them going down and collecting what they can, drop one more memorial plaque and be done with the place. (I mean, if people want to risk their lives going down there, so be it, but if nothing to see I think that becomes unlikely).


Not worth the Memorial Plaque. I get it might be some time of tradition but who is ever going to see that thing in our lifetime? Maybe deep sea voyages will become more sophisticated in the future.

Maybe put the plaque somewhere people can see it
following up on that suggestion: I was walking around my neighborhood when I was in law school and came across this. A memorial to the Titanic in southwest DC along the marina waterfront.

No idea why on earth it is there.



It's for all the men who died so that the women and children could live(not that they really had a choice).
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W
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7:41a, 6/23/23
AG
I see a lot of comments "they knew the risk"

yes, the crew knew the general risk, but outside of the CEO...the rest of the crew/passengers likely did not know the specific risks

i.e. the design and construction flaws that were built into the submersible -- the things that doomed the sub before it went into the water
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DannyDuberstein
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In reply to W • 7:53a, 6/23/23
AG
Agree. We all have signed waivers with crazy **** on them if you actually read them, but in this case, they have the extremely confident owner who is an "expert" in their eyes (and his own) assuring them and he's actually going with them. They still own their decision, but I do not believe they had a true fully informed decision
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ratfacemcdougal
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8:05a, 6/23/23
in the movie Down Periscope, there is a scene when the sub is going deep and the engine man tapes a string from side to side, when they get real deep, the string has a ton of slack. he even has a line about the sub crushing like a beer can.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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8:06a, 6/23/23
AG
They were grave robbers guys. Don't lose sleep over the Karma Chameleon.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
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In reply to ratfacemcdougal • 8:28a, 6/23/23
ratfacemcdougal said:
in the movie Down Periscope, there is a scene when the sub is going deep and the engine man tapes a string from side to side, when they get real deep, the string has a ton of slack. he even has a line about the sub crushing like a beer can.


Lol I'm surprised the CEO didn't have a string across the hull as an "emergency sensor".

String purchased from Camper World of course.
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$3 Sack of Groceries
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In reply to ratfacemcdougal • 8:40a, 6/23/23
AG
ratfacemcdougal said:
in the movie Down Periscope, there is a scene when the sub is going deep and the engine man tapes a string from side to side, when they get real deep, the string has a ton of slack. he even has a line about the sub crushing like a beer can.


Apparently, Down Periscope was a documentary to this CEO.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to bonfarr • 8:51a, 6/23/23
AG
bonfarr said:
The Titan had sensors that did some type of scan of the hull that supposedly could warn them when there was a danger of a hull crack. I assume they got an alarm then they signaled the mother ship. The CEOs plan was to ascend as soon as they got an alarm showing they were in danger but we see how that went.
Given the shoe string budget of Oceangate there is really only two types of sensors they could have had. Either it was acoustic sensors picking up on the carbon fiber composite damage happening in real time (as it makes cracking noises). Or it was strain gauges measuring deformation. It was most likely simple acoustic sensors placed around the hull.

Just the sheer arrogance of the CEO is baffling. Using carbon fiber in compression. Drilling holes into carbon fiber. Using acrylic for the huge window. Thinking he could have time to surface if he heard cracking.

Just stupid stupid stupid.
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TexasRebel
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In reply to ratfacemcdougal • 9:23a, 6/23/23
AG
ratfacemcdougal said:
in the movie Down Periscope, there is a scene when the sub is going deep and the engine man tapes a string from side to side, when they get real deep, the string has a ton of slack. he even has a line about the sub crushing like a beer can.


Harry Dean Stanton.
He actually served on a Diesel Sub. His line, "This is what I live for! DBF!" Is homage to his service. Diesel Boats Forever!
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Gilligan
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In reply to ratfacemcdougal • 9:27a, 6/23/23
AG
ratfacemcdougal said:
in the movie Down Periscope, there is a scene when the sub is going deep and the engine man tapes a string from side to side, when they get real deep, the string has a ton of slack. he even has a line about the sub crushing like a beer can.
This scene was discussed at our Men's breakfast this morning.

Sad all around.
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bonfarr
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 9:28a, 6/23/23
AG
one MEEN Ag said:
bonfarr said:
The Titan had sensors that did some type of scan of the hull that supposedly could warn them when there was a danger of a hull crack. I assume they got an alarm then they signaled the mother ship. The CEOs plan was to ascend as soon as they got an alarm showing they were in danger but we see how that went.
Given the shoe string budget of Oceangate there is really only two types of sensors they could have had. Either it was acoustic sensors picking up on the carbon fiber composite damage happening in real time (as it makes cracking noises). Or it was strain gauges measuring deformation. It was most likely simple acoustic sensors placed around the hull.

Just the sheer arrogance of the CEO is baffling. Using carbon fiber in compression. Drilling holes into carbon fiber. Using acrylic for the huge window. Thinking he could have time to surface if he heard cracking.

Just stupid stupid stupid.


My favorite story told by one of the people that backed out of the trip was the one where the CEO was asked what the window was made of. He said acrylic and bragged about how that material was great because it would warp and get distorted before breaking and that gave them a signal that they needed to surface before it popped. I don't know why anyone wouldn't be reassured by that answer.
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Marcus Aurelius
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9:29a, 6/23/23
AG
I am no expert but why carbon fiber for parts of the hull? Isn't it known for its light weight, attractiveness and relative durability? As such for parts of a sports car, bicycle, watch bands etc? Doesnt the military use reinforced steel, titanium etc for its devices needing the most structural support such as submarines? Baffling to me the design of that tiny sub.
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Burdizzo
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9:29a, 6/23/23
AG
So since this sub was presumably designed and built.in Washington does their state engineering board take legal action against Ocean Gate? Top of the list for PE responsibility in the state of Texas are public safety, ethics, and competency.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to bonfarr • 9:32a, 6/23/23
AG
bonfarr said:
one MEEN Ag said:
bonfarr said:
The Titan had sensors that did some type of scan of the hull that supposedly could warn them when there was a danger of a hull crack. I assume they got an alarm then they signaled the mother ship. The CEOs plan was to ascend as soon as they got an alarm showing they were in danger but we see how that went.
Given the shoe string budget of Oceangate there is really only two types of sensors they could have had. Either it was acoustic sensors picking up on the carbon fiber composite damage happening in real time (as it makes cracking noises). Or it was strain gauges measuring deformation. It was most likely simple acoustic sensors placed around the hull.

Just the sheer arrogance of the CEO is baffling. Using carbon fiber in compression. Drilling holes into carbon fiber. Using acrylic for the huge window. Thinking he could have time to surface if he heard cracking.

Just stupid stupid stupid.


My favorite story told by one of the people that backed out of the trip was the one where the CEO was asked what the window was made of. He said acrylic and bragged about how that material was great because it would warp and get distorted before breaking and that gave them a signal that they needed to surface before it popped. I don't know why anyone wouldn't be reassured by that answer.
When I read that story as well I was shocked. Dude was claiming that this 7" (?) thick piece of acrylic would deflect 3/4 of an inch at depth.

Under no circumstance would acrylic deflecting that much would just gently deflect a bit more giving you a heads up its about to fail.

And it was such a dumb design decision.
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CivilAg10
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In reply to bonfarr • 9:35a, 6/23/23
AG
The poor engineering judgements wasn't an acrylic viewport, it was the carbon fiber hull.
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In reply to CivilAg10 • 9:39a, 6/23/23
CivilAg10 said:
The poor engineering judgements wasn't an acrylic viewport, it was the carbon fiber hull.


The project itself was poor
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DannyDuberstein
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9:45a, 6/23/23
AG
The motivation for carbon fiber was weight in order to make it easier to transport to dive locations and then maneuver underwater (assume less power needed)?
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Gigem314
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In reply to bonfarr • 9:45a, 6/23/23
AG
Quote:
My favorite story told by one of the people that backed out of the trip was the one where the CEO was asked what the window was made of. He said acrylic and bragged about how that material was great because it would warp and get distorted before breaking and that gave them a signal that they needed to surface before it popped. I don't know why anyone wouldn't be reassured by that answer.
Yeah there's also video of him saying it to the Mexican actor who documented his trip to the Titanic. The whole "it would give us a warning" line is pretty haunting. Maybe it was still the fiber hull that ultimately doomed them, but they had to have gotten some kind of warning to send the distress signal. I can't imagine at least the CEO not realizing what was happening before their final moments.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to CivilAg10 • 9:47a, 6/23/23
AG
CivilAg10 said:
The poor engineering judgements wasn't an acrylic viewport, it was the carbon fiber hull.
Every time I learn something more about the design of this vessel, I have yet to be impressed with any design decisions.

There is nothing about this vessel that was designed correctly. I wouldn't have gotten in this thing to dive into a pool.
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maverick12
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In reply to VaultingChemist • 9:48a, 6/23/23
AG
VaultingChemist said:
Quote:
Not sure it matters, they're done either way. How many people are going to sign up to go down to Titanic on a similar vessel after this?

Essentially no non-insane people would hop on board if it was free, much less pay $250K for the privilege.
I would be surprised if this doesn't affect the Atlantis Submarine tours, such as the one in the Cayman Islands. Although they usually don't go deeper than 100', they travel over steep canyon walls that plunge thousands of feet down.


We did the the Atlantis in Grand Cayman years ago and I had the same thought. It's pretty unnerving hovering over a 5,000 foot canyon. Wouldn't do it again.
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9:48a, 6/23/23
This is a must watch if you want to see about a million issues within 2 mins. Even the reporter was like "this whole thing seems improvised"

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ThunderCougarFalconBird
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In reply to VaultingChemist • 9:52a, 6/23/23
AG
VaultingChemist said:
Quote:
Not sure it matters, they're done either way. How many people are going to sign up to go down to Titanic on a similar vessel after this?

Essentially no non-insane people would hop on board if it was free, much less pay $250K for the privilege.
I would be surprised if this doesn't affect the Atlantis Submarine tours, such as the one in the Cayman Islands. Although they usually don't go deeper than 100', they travel over steep canyon walls that plunge thousands of feet down.
those boats are fundamentally different. They always maintain (and default to) positive buoyancy. So they're always using thrust to maintain depth and if the thing outright fails, it will just float to the surface.
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bonfarr
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 9:54a, 6/23/23
AG
Marcus Aurelius said:
I am no expert but why carbon fiber for parts of the hull? Isn't it known for its light weight, attractiveness and relative durability? As such for parts of a sports car, bicycle, watch bands etc? Doesnt the military use reinforced steel, titanium etc for its devices needing the most structural support such as submarines? Baffling to me the design of that tiny sub.


I think Rush said the decision to use carbon fiber was due to weight which made recovery easier. I know nothing about deep sea exploration but I took it as the lighter weight allowed for less robust equipment to hoist the thing back onto the ship which would lower cost. Because it was a money making tourism venture they had to figure out a way to lower cost anywhere they could unless they thought they could find people willing to pay $1million or more per trip.
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SPF250
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10:05a, 6/23/23
AG
Dating myself with this, but it seems to fit.
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McInnis 03
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 10:21a, 6/23/23
AG
Apparently he has a patent on the acoustic monitoring....in his name only
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McInnis 03
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10:22a, 6/23/23
AG
A good, quick read

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No Spin Ag
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In reply to bonfarr • 10:24a, 6/23/23
bonfarr said:
Marcus Aurelius said:
I am no expert but why carbon fiber for parts of the hull? Isn't it known for its light weight, attractiveness and relative durability? As such for parts of a sports car, bicycle, watch bands etc? Doesnt the military use reinforced steel, titanium etc for its devices needing the most structural support such as submarines? Baffling to me the design of that tiny sub.


I think Rush said the decision to use carbon fiber was due to weight which made recovery easier. I know nothing about deep sea exploration but I took it as the lighter weight allowed for less robust equipment to hoist the thing back onto the ship which would lower cost. Because it was a money making tourism venture they had to figure out a way to lower cost anywhere they could unless they thought they could find people willing to pay $1million or more per trip.
They're going to be hard-pressed to find anyone willing to take a trip with them anytime in the near forever now.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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1872walker
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In reply to McInnis 03 • 10:30a, 6/23/23
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.
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TexasRebel
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10:30a, 6/23/23
AG
Found this.

Go to 3:58 or so.

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No Spin Ag
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In reply to TexasRebel • 10:34a, 6/23/23
TexasRebel said:
Found this.

Go to 3:58 or so.

JFC, that's just insane; what happens to it.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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agracer
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In reply to bonfarr • 10:36a, 6/23/23
AG
bonfarr said:
The Titan had sensors that did some type of scan of the hull that supposedly could warn them when there was a danger of a hull crack. I assume they got an alarm then they signaled the mother ship. The CEOs plan was to ascend as soon as they got an alarm showing they were in danger but we see how that went.
Based on interview's with the CEO I've seen, I'll bet he got multiple alarms on the way down and just ignored them until it was too late.
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YokelRidesAgain
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In reply to agracer • 10:41a, 6/23/23
AG
agracer said:

Based on interview's with the CEO I've seen, I'll bet he got multiple alarms on the way down and just ignored them until it was too late.
I would be surprised if the Titan had more than one alarm. Maybe you mean it went off multiple times.
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