I would imagine at the very least they have equipment manned 24 hours a day. That equipment probably provides some sort of alert to anomalies, particularly something like an implosion. Then they can go back and look and listen to a recording, if needed.

Huge difference

Victor Vescovo (top photo) used the Triton 36000 "Limiting Factor" to dive to the Titanic in 2020. That submersible has no depth limit, being rated for the deepest places in the entire world. A Titanic dive would have been a walk in the park. pic.twitter.com/u5vr0XxCJH

— Tom Brosz (@t_a_brosz) June 22, 2023

aggiehawg said:

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Wonder if they removed the nuclear weapons or anything.

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They were still in sea trials. No weapons on board. Testing is done because it was a nuke powered sub.

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Not Scorpion

Questions we will never get answers too.

Both offer a different experience. One is a two seater it looks like and the other is a makeshift, let's sit in a circle and try to survive vibes,

Jabin said:

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aggiehawg said:

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I don't know anything about engineering or deep sea exploration, but it's my understanding that this guy completely disregarded existing requirements and common sense.

More regulations aren't needed if people can completely disregard them and do whatever the hell they want.

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Much has been made of the waivers signed by the "passengers." Do those waivers protect Oceangate?

My initital take is no, they do not. This is in the gross negligence/wanton disregard category which void those, in general.

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Those waivers are not worth the paper they are written on. The first question is which jurisdiction's law applies. Many jurisdictions are reluctant to enforce waivers at all. Second, as you correctly noted, waivers cannot protect against gross negligence in any jurisdiction of which I am aware.

The estate of the billionaire CEO will almost certainly also be liable. Even though he was doing business in the form of a limited liability entity, It sounds like all of the key engineering decisions were made by him personally. Thus, the use of a limited liability entity will not protect his estate from liability.

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Everyone's talking about a Titanic sequel, but this is setting up nicely for a Mr. Deeds part deux. That scene on Everest is really what I think of this clown CEO

Swan Song said:

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Anyone else watching Hunt for Red October like we are tonight?

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The Abyss might be more applicable with Michael Biehn aboard a submersible that implodes.

Swan Song said:

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Anyone else watching Hunt for Red October like we are tonight?

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More of a Run Silent, Run Deep fan for this. So campy. But it had Gable and Lancaster.

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Not sure it matters, they're done either way. How many people are going to sign up to go down to Titanic on a similar vessel after this?

Essentially no non-insane people would hop on board if it was free, much less pay $250K for the privilege.

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I would be surprised if this doesn't affect the Atlantis Submarine tours, such as the one in the Cayman Islands. Although they usually don't go deeper than 100', they travel over steep canyon walls that plunge thousands of feet down.

I actually just told my husband we're watching that tomorrow night. It's an amazing movie, too bad such a rescue wasn't possible.

A movie of this event could be pretty good.

YokelRidesAgain said:

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AustinCountyAg said:

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Eventually people will take the risk and do this again. It's like aviation. You have to start somewhere.

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Well, of course. The difference from early aviation is that people did not start taking passengers up on a heavier than air craft for crazy amounts of money after, like, 20 trips in a new contraption.

(The reason for that is that it was not technically feasible to do so. Otherwise it definitely would have been done.)

Point is that people who risked their lives in early airplanes, or spacecraft, or polar expeditions, or mountain climbing, were doing it for the joy of discovery and/or the glory. They knew they were risking their lives and prepared accordingly.

This was "hey, we can make it down there, let's sell seats for 250 grand a pop". It was just reckless folly to commercialize this poorly tested vessel based on "we made it down a couple of times and didn't die."

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I don't think it was so much reckless folly to commercialize it. I think it was a rich billionaire who had a big head and wanted to have the glory that he did it in "his" sub. The people who chose to pay and go for the ride knew the risks. Their is a reason only a handful of vehicles have gone down there and those folks who paid to take the trip didn't have a ton of options and so they chose to pay to take their ride in his makeshift vessel. I feel sorry for those who lost there life's, but I'm not gunna necessarily blame the ceo of oceangate that they died. Nobody forced them on that sub.

I would assume they did some prior research on the trip and vessel and came to there own conclusion that they thought the risk was worth the reward.

Clearly the overwhelmingly majority can see that the thing was pretty much a jerry rigged POS, but those who took the trip didn't really care because they wanted to see the titanic.

I can't really see how anyone can sue his estate or company. They went on a super dangerous trip knowing full well the risks and knowing that what they were doing had only been done a handful of times prior.

I'm more shocked it only cost 250k. I would've thought a million or so.

AustinCountyAg said:

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I can't really see how anyone can sue his estate or company. They went on a super dangerous trip knowing full well the risks and knowing that what they were doing had only been done a handful of times prior.

I'm more shocked it only cost 250k. I would've thought a million or so.

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One of the people who died was a minor. I can't imagine that he had any kind of realistic understanding of the risks: we're all immortal, at that age.

The CEO and the French diver, yes, I presume that they had the experience and the sense to understand what they were doing.

The others were along for the ride. To their detriment, obviously.

VaultingChemist said:

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I would be surprised if this doesn't affect the Atlantis Submarine tours, such as the one in the Cayman Islands. Although they usually don't go deeper than 100', they travel over steep canyon walls that plunge thousands of feet down.

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Could be. There is ample evidence that human beings are very, very poor at estimating risk, if left to their own devices.

Traveling down 100 feet is close to a zero risk activity in a submersible, unless you are dealing with idiots who can't recognize that there is currently a hole in their boat.

The current outcome is an example of "if I can buy it, it must be reasonably safe".

Which is a bad idea, whether the product is heroin or a submarine ride. Or a handle of vodka, for that matter.

At least they all died together on Father's Day. Just dudes being dudes.

Wasn't the youngest 19? In university, seemed fairly bright to me. Even read an article today where he mentioned he had reservations beforehand about doing it, but did it as a Father's Day gift for his dad.

I'd compare it to people hitching rides to go into outer space, which is prolly even way safer. Either by strapping yourself to a rocket, or sitting in a tube that goes miles to the ocean floor. You know the risks going in and you know if something goes wrong the ambulance isn't coming to save you.

coconutED said:

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bonfarr said:

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The Navy began using the system, which is used to locate enemy submarines, to listen for the Titan almost immediately after it lost contact with its radio ship on Sunday, a US defense official told The Wall Street Journal.

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This timeline doesn't make sense if it is true the Ocean Gate team didn't notify the Coast Guard until the Titan was hours overdue from what would have been their 8 hr mission.

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I'm not privy to Top Secret surveilance systems, but I'm pretty sure that "using the system" in this case means going over the logs/recordings and looking for anomolies. It's not like there's a guy sitting in a sound booth with headphones on listening to ocean noise 24/7…right?

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Anomalies create Events and then people listen to those events.

Video about what happens to a submarine at crush depth. Very informative. Titan would have been way more forceful since it took place significantly deeper than a submarine's crush depth.

Squadron7 said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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That's reporting these days. One ahole mentions banging every 30 minutes on twitter, every reporter runs with it as "reports are….". That so called profession is a joke

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This needs to be addressed with an entirely different thread because it is huge.

Middling intellects in search of clicks is what the modern MSM really is.

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Gotta be careful, because this didn't originate within major media, nor did many major outlets report it as anything other than "banging noises". Twitter sleuths and bloggers took it much farther than most big media did.

And, for the record, big media means the alphabets + Sky News/BBC. Daily Mail, the Independent, and others like it are glorified tabloids that are occasionally correct (although quite entertaining).

AgsOnDeck said:

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Man. James Cameron is a smart man in this field.

I encourage everyone to watch.

“I’m struck by the similarity of the Titanic disaster itself, where the captain was repeatedly warned about ice ahead of his ship and yet he steamed at full speed into an ice field on a moonless night. And many people died as a result.”— James Cameronpic.twitter.com/o8MoROTU3p

— Dennis (@dennis_k_g) June 22, 2023

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His BBC interview tonight was amazing. Cameron always tells it like it is. The dude also talked about Paul-Henri Nargeolet, also known as "Mr. Titanic".

LMCane said:

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TXAG 05 said:

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LMCane said:

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TXAG 05 said:

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PA24 said:

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Rest in Peace

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They had said the oxygen would run out about 4-5AM this morning, so that's it for them. Good chance we may never know what happened.

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I think we will know

either nothing is ever found of any of the Titan and therefore it was crushed into tiny bits by the water pressure and a crack in the hull

or they do find the Titan and can determine if it was hung up on the wreckage or a fire broke out which asphyxiated them

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Unless the sub is sitting on the deck of Titanic, the chances of finding it are not good. Remember that there is a huge debris field surrounding the wreck, plus there is no telling how far it has drifted if it did just lose power. It may not be anywhere near it.

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I think with technology - just like they found the Titanic after 1912 two miles on the ocean floor,

if the Titan is still intact they will someday find it

how many people are looking for wrecks all over the world and they find individual planes 80 years later?

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I knew they would find it if the Titan was not destroyed, but it's amazing they found it in a few hours when it WAS destroyed and imploded.

I would have thought that everything basically has 3500 times air pressure- so even the steel bolts would be evaporated in a sudden implosion. but amazingly modern technology can survive even 2.5 miles below sea level.

AgsOnDeck said:

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fka ftc said:

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So much has been discussed in recent years about the Titanic "disintegrating" as bacteria and other processes consume what is consumable.

Question is, once this process becomes more and more advanced, there should be incredible salvage opportunities for the stuff that did not get consumed by the ocean.

At that point, I would be all for them going down and collecting what they can, drop one more memorial plaque and be done with the place. (I mean, if people want to risk their lives going down there, so be it, but if nothing to see I think that becomes unlikely).

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Not worth the Memorial Plaque. I get it might be some time of tradition but who is ever going to see that thing in our lifetime? Maybe deep sea voyages will become more sophisticated in the future.

Maybe put the plaque somewhere people can see it

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following up on that suggestion: I was walking around my neighborhood when I was in law school and came across this. A memorial to the Titanic in southwest DC along the marina waterfront.

No idea why on earth it is there.

More of the Cameron interview.

Pretty great, detailed thread about his sub, the Deepsea Challenger.

Nothing abt the Titan is worthy of note.

It was hastily & shoddily assembled w/untested materials & eschewed all accepted safety standards for profit.

It's not the world's first submersible. It's nowhere close to the deepest diver.

Let me tell you about the Deepsea Challenger. pic.twitter.com/bOhKkoXne9

— Flying Lady Doctor Says | تقول الطبيبة | 🇮🇶 (@LadyDoctorSays) June 22, 2023

In short, the difference between the jerry-rigged death trap of the Titan, vs the DCV1, is essentially comparing a caveman's stone tools to alien technology.

BQ78 said:

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They did send a distress message to the mothership just before implosion. Probably heard the hull cracking.

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is this confirmed in official sources?

AgsOnDeck said:

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Stuff makes my blood boil

OceanGate REFUSED independent inspection of missing sub and fired worker who raised safety concerns https://t.co/rgsEs31hFT pic.twitter.com/C4yUu6ahqk

— Daily Mail US (@DailyMail) June 20, 2023

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really? you are personally upset about this? why?

I can understand if it's a commercial plane and hundreds died due to lies.

but this was 5 people ALL WHO KNEW THE RISKS and voluntarily agreed to pay a lot of money to put their lives at risk.

do I want them to die? not at all

on the other hand, with a planet of 8 billion people there are a whole heck of a lot of other issues I worry and am upset about than billionaires recklessly going on adventures.

That is absolutely the truth that humans cannot estimate risk or really correctly estimate much of anything.

much more than half the population of the United States consider themselves "middle class"

much more than half the USA consider themselves "above average"

many americans have no retirement plans because they don't think they will live into retirement.

It takes $2.2 million to be considered wealthy
According to Charles Schwab, this year's survey of 1,000 respondents revealed there is a paradox between how people define wealth for themselves and how they define it for others.

The data also demonstrated that the 48% of Americans who feel wealthy today have an average net worth of $560,000, compared to the $2.2 million they say it takes to be considered wealthy.