They are supposed to run out of oxygen some time Thursday morning.BenFiasco14 said:
At what point is no return? I.e., they're definitely dead?
Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]
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Last: 4 mo ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
BenFiasco14 said:
At what point is no return? I.e., they're definitely dead?
I think Friday morning for sure.
Without confirmation of location, you are likely past the point of any recovery by an ROV finding them and somehow assisting with surfacing. If they have surfaced, then you have until the O2 runs out, which is late tonight / early tomorrow AM.BenFiasco14 said:
At what point is no return? I.e., they're definitely dead?
FTAG 2000 said:fka ftc said:
For those poking fun at the controller used, NatGeo supplied this reference to the US Navy using xBox controllers to aim laser cannons and operate periscopes.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/military-contractor-just-went-ahead-and-used-xbox-controller-their-new-giant-laser-cannon-180952647/
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military-xbox-360-controller
They weren't using that though. They were using a Logitech controller (third party)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12219717/The-30-gaming-controller-used-pilot-lost-Titanic-submarine-received-HUNDREDS-complaints.html
Quote:
The controller - which runs on two AA batteries - has a 4.2 out of five overall score on Amazon, but hundreds of one-star reviews dating back more than a decade claim the device suffers from irritating and regular connection problems.
Other themes among the negative reviews include problems with the controller's analog sticks and that pressing certain buttons scrambled the entire pad.
And the Logitech G F710 Wireless Gamepad is only compatible with decade-old Windows and Chrome systems.
JaxDad said:
I'll be very callous about this but why are we spending so much taxpayer money to try and find them? I told my daughter if it was a fishing charter or something routine then that is why the CG exists. This is an extreme adventure that went wrong. Another analogy would be snow skiing (normal) at say Breckenridge versus climbing Mount Everest. One has low risk and the other is extreme.
Good training for cutting edge tech and resources who don't have a lot of opportunities to train real world. Gotta spend the money on training anyway, may as well go fishing for a real toy.
VegasAg86 said:They are supposed to run out of oxygen some time Thursday morning.BenFiasco14 said:
At what point is no return? I.e., they're definitely dead?
They could string it out another day if say, the CEO were no longer breathing.
bthotugigem05 said:
Just nothing like seeing it for yourself to some people.
Grand Canyon
Northern lights
Super Bowl
Kate Upton's boobs
I don't blame them for wanting to go, but I do blame them for wanting to go in that.
agracer said:I thought reports earlier were they got some pings from the Titan in the last day or so. If it imploded, there would be no pings. Also, you'd think the SOSUS system in the Atlantic would have heard the explosion.MarathonAg12 said:
Sounds like the Hull finally imploded
There was some underwater noise heard. Could be a million different things. Any reports that it was every 30 minutes or somehow confirmed to be Titan are not accurate
Unless they are stuck in the wreckage itself or stuck at the ocean floor almost directly adjacent to the wreckage, I doubt they will ever be found. And this is a boat that would regularly get lost for hours at a time.
Snopes is blaming Elon and Starlink for the loss of communications.
Via Hot AirQuote:
When news broke of the failed communications, a number of news reports and posts claimed that the missing submersible was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink satellites for its communications.
The claim is true. OceanGate, the company that operates the submersible, tweeted right before the expedition that it was relying on Starlink: "Without any cell towers in the middle of the ocean, we are relying on @Starlink to provide the communications we require throughout this year's 2023 Titanic Expedition."
not banging noises, distinct pings from the Titan itself.DannyDuberstein said:agracer said:I thought reports earlier were they got some pings from the Titan in the last day or so. If it imploded, there would be no pings. Also, you'd think the SOSUS system in the Atlantic would have heard the explosion.MarathonAg12 said:
Sounds like the Hull finally imploded
There was some underwater noise heard. Could be a million different things. Any reports that it was every 30 minutes or somehow confirmed to be Titan are not accurate
Wouldn't it make sense to send it, unmanned, to deeper depths than the lowest manned depth it would ever need to handle?Mathguy64 said:BadMoonRisin said:
Has it been discussed how many times this thing actually made a successful voyage down to the wreck? I've read expeditions are 5 days and they might only make it down once or twice...or zero. And it apparently was not uncommon for it to get lost for hours at a time.
Has it successfully made it down 5 times? 10? 20?
It's not made it once. This was the first try. The previous "test" only went down to 3000m with only the CEO. So they have never tested the hull integrity beyond 3000m and the Titanic wreck is beyond that.
Remote communications to the sub or to the mother ship?aggiehawg said:
Snopes is blaming Elon and Starlink for the loss of communications.Via Hot AirQuote:
When news broke of the failed communications, a number of news reports and posts claimed that the missing submersible was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink satellites for its communications.
The claim is true. OceanGate, the company that operates the submersible, tweeted right before the expedition that it was relying on Starlink: "Without any cell towers in the middle of the ocean, we are relying on @Starlink to provide the communications we require throughout this year's 2023 Titanic Expedition."
fka ftc said:Unfortunately or fortunately for the occupants, they are instructed to limit their food intake prior to the dive in order to not have to use the ziploc bag for doodies.Keeper of The Spirits said:
All the talk about the toilet and smells, I can imagine there wouldn't be some briefing on what to eat before you head down, although with this organization they probably fed them bean and undercooked chicken
I feel like in in that kind of panic my body would shut down most functions
Not sure how many granola bars and lunchables they packed, but I imagine if they have survived this long they are in dehydration and getting pretty hungry.
Hypothermia is also an issue if they are trying to conserve energy. When your body is consuming energy at a high rate trying to stay warm, there is not a lot of unburned energy going out the waste gate.
agracer said:not banging noises, distinct pings from the Titan itself.DannyDuberstein said:agracer said:I thought reports earlier were they got some pings from the Titan in the last day or so. If it imploded, there would be no pings. Also, you'd think the SOSUS system in the Atlantic would have heard the explosion.MarathonAg12 said:
Sounds like the Hull finally imploded
There was some underwater noise heard. Could be a million different things. Any reports that it was every 30 minutes or somehow confirmed to be Titan are not accurate
That would be huge news. Everything I've seen is no official ping since it got lost a few days ago, with its last position at the last ping just above the titanic. And the underwater noises lead has also turned into a dud
Yeah, I haven't seen anywhere that they've gotten a confirmed ping since early Sunday morning. I'd like to see if that's not true.DannyDuberstein said:agracer said:not banging noises, distinct pings from the Titan itself.DannyDuberstein said:agracer said:I thought reports earlier were they got some pings from the Titan in the last day or so. If it imploded, there would be no pings. Also, you'd think the SOSUS system in the Atlantic would have heard the explosion.MarathonAg12 said:
Sounds like the Hull finally imploded
There was some underwater noise heard. Could be a million different things. Any reports that it was every 30 minutes or somehow confirmed to be Titan are not accurate
That would be huge news. Everything I've seen is no official ping since it got lost a few days ago, with its last position at the last ping just above the titanic. And the underwater noises lead has also turned into a dud
Wow so Starlink works 2 miles under the ocean? Where do I sign up.aggiehawg said:
Snopes is blaming Elon and Starlink for the loss of communications.Via Hot AirQuote:
When news broke of the failed communications, a number of news reports and posts claimed that the missing submersible was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink satellites for its communications.
The claim is true. OceanGate, the company that operates the submersible, tweeted right before the expedition that it was relying on Starlink: "Without any cell towers in the middle of the ocean, we are relying on @Starlink to provide the communications we require throughout this year's 2023 Titanic Expedition."
Trump will fix it.
techno-ag said:Wow so Starlink works 2 miles under the ocean? Where do I sign up.aggiehawg said:
Snopes is blaming Elon and Starlink for the loss of communications.Via Hot AirQuote:
When news broke of the failed communications, a number of news reports and posts claimed that the missing submersible was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink satellites for its communications.
The claim is true. OceanGate, the company that operates the submersible, tweeted right before the expedition that it was relying on Starlink: "Without any cell towers in the middle of the ocean, we are relying on @Starlink to provide the communications we require throughout this year's 2023 Titanic Expedition."
That is probably for the mother ship only. Stupid journalists don't ever try to explain things properly.
Figured. But how could they get that wrong? It's tied to the sub in the article, not the mothership. The way people use Snopes you just know someone will blame Musk for this and say Snopes backs them up.Burdizzo said:techno-ag said:Wow so Starlink works 2 miles under the ocean? Where do I sign up.aggiehawg said:
Snopes is blaming Elon and Starlink for the loss of communications.Via Hot AirQuote:
When news broke of the failed communications, a number of news reports and posts claimed that the missing submersible was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink satellites for its communications.
The claim is true. OceanGate, the company that operates the submersible, tweeted right before the expedition that it was relying on Starlink: "Without any cell towers in the middle of the ocean, we are relying on @Starlink to provide the communications we require throughout this year's 2023 Titanic Expedition."
That is probably for the mother ship only. Stupid journalists don't ever try to explain things properly.
Trump will fix it.
It's been all the way down to Titanic a few times, plus several other unsuccessful attempts. In fact, that's the concern, the repeated strain on the hull. I don't know why anyone would say it's the first try for this particular craft.eric76 said:Wouldn't it make sense to send it, unmanned, to deeper depths than the lowest manned depth it would ever need to handle?Mathguy64 said:BadMoonRisin said:
Has it been discussed how many times this thing actually made a successful voyage down to the wreck? I've read expeditions are 5 days and they might only make it down once or twice...or zero. And it apparently was not uncommon for it to get lost for hours at a time.
Has it successfully made it down 5 times? 10? 20?
It's not made it once. This was the first try. The previous "test" only went down to 3000m with only the CEO. So they have never tested the hull integrity beyond 3000m and the Titanic wreck is beyond that.
The Titan has visited the Titanic wreck site three times, the first of which was in July 2021
bonfarr said:
I just don't understand why someone would want to pay $250k and risk their life in one of the most inhospitable places on the planet to view an old shipwreck. I have watched all of the videos of the wreckage on YouTube that all of the different expeditions have shot and I am perfectly fine leaving it at that. There really isn't much to look at other than a big blob of wreckage covered in coral and slime. They can only look out the one small window and most likely can only see ten feet in front of the window clearly anyway. Whatis the lure for this? To be able to say you are one of only a hundred or so people to be down there?
Don't forget the selfie factor. A lot of society can no longer enjoy life, their kids, an event or even seeing the titanic without the utter bliss of snapping a shot of themselves.
At this point, I hope they went quick and before they knew what was happening. That CEO otoh deserved so much worse for influencing people into something this stupid and unsafe. This is like convincing people to jump a motorbike over an active volcano. Just because you're a cavalier rich guy toying with death, there's no reason to try to enlist tourists as well.
I feel so terrible for these people. Just try to put yourself in that situation. Pure torture. I am hoping for a miracle, but time is running out (assuming they didn't already explode). I never thought they would be able to rescue all of those kids trapped in the cave in Thailand either, but thank God they did. Fingers crossed, praying like crazy.
Fee bad for the kid. Though 19, kind of young still to evaluate a risk like this. The rest of them were old enough to make their choice.
this sounds eerily familiar to the macondo blowout between BP and halliburton
It would be nice to have a proven safety margin. I don't think that having gone to the same depth twice before tells you much at all about the safety margin.Joes said:It's been all the way down to Titanic a few times, plus several other unsuccessful attempts. In fact, that's the concern, the repeated strain on the hull. I don't know why anyone would say it's the first try for this particular craft.eric76 said:Wouldn't it make sense to send it, unmanned, to deeper depths than the lowest manned depth it would ever need to handle?Mathguy64 said:BadMoonRisin said:
Has it been discussed how many times this thing actually made a successful voyage down to the wreck? I've read expeditions are 5 days and they might only make it down once or twice...or zero. And it apparently was not uncommon for it to get lost for hours at a time.
Has it successfully made it down 5 times? 10? 20?
It's not made it once. This was the first try. The previous "test" only went down to 3000m with only the CEO. So they have never tested the hull integrity beyond 3000m and the Titanic wreck is beyond that.
The Titan has visited the Titanic wreck site three times, the first of which was in July 2021
Not only on hull depth, but also to make sure that the electronics are highly dependable and aren't defeated by getting damp or wet.
As for not being able to open the hatch from the inside, that reminds me of the Apollo 1 fire. I remember Aaron Cohen telling about how hard it was to make changes to the capsule hatch to allow it to be opened from the inside, but it was clear that it absolutely had to be done.
dreyOO said:bonfarr said:
I just don't understand why someone would want to pay $250k and risk their life in one of the most inhospitable places on the planet to view an old shipwreck. I have watched all of the videos of the wreckage on YouTube that all of the different expeditions have shot and I am perfectly fine leaving it at that. There really isn't much to look at other than a big blob of wreckage covered in coral and slime. They can only look out the one small window and most likely can only see ten feet in front of the window clearly anyway. Whatis the lure for this? To be able to say you are one of only a hundred or so people to be down there?
Don't forget the selfie factor. A lot of society can no longer enjoy life, their kids, an event or even seeing the titanic without the utter bliss of snapping a shot of themselves.
At this point, I hope they went quick and before they knew what was happening. That CEO otoh deserved so much worse for influencing people into something this stupid and unsafe. This is like convincing people to jump a motorbike over an active volcano. Just because you're a cavalier rich guy toying with death, there's no reason to try to enlist tourists as well.
The CEO didn't have to convince these guys. You don't understand the type of men here. One of the men had been down to the Titanic 33 times already and his company RMS Titanic, Inc owns the salvage rights to the wreck.
The Hamish Harding guy had dived 30K feet to the bottom of the Miriana Trench recently, far deeper than the Titanic wreck site. He had recently gone into space on Jeff Bezo's rocket.
These men are not wired like normal people. They are the types who climb Mt Everest, etc. you don't 'get it' because you don't approach your own life like those men do, which is fine.
They knew what they were doing and accepted the risk getting into that sub. They have made a lifetime of taking such risks. Hell, if by miracle they come out of this alive, these are the type of men who'd probably be crawling right back into another submersible next summer if they got the chance.
The one person who is almost certainly the exception is the 19 year old, who no doubt was influenced by the dad to go and who did not have the background and years of experience to make a self-informed decision. I feel bad particularly for him, so young.
There's a reason planes and boats aren't piloted with these things though. A few very typical specs for electronic operating conditions:fka ftc said:
For those poking fun at the controller used, NatGeo supplied this reference to the US Navy using xBox controllers to aim laser cannons and operate periscopes.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/military-contractor-just-went-ahead-and-used-xbox-controller-their-new-giant-laser-cannon-180952647/
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military-xbox-360-controller
Consumer, 0C to +85C, >10,000 FIT rate
Automotive, -40C to +125C, <10 FIT rate
Milspec, -55C to +150C, <10 FIT rate
Probably lost in the shuffle but posted about this the other day earlier in the thread.Burdizzo said:techno-ag said:Wow so Starlink works 2 miles under the ocean? Where do I sign up.aggiehawg said:
Snopes is blaming Elon and Starlink for the loss of communications.Via Hot AirQuote:
When news broke of the failed communications, a number of news reports and posts claimed that the missing submersible was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink satellites for its communications.
The claim is true. OceanGate, the company that operates the submersible, tweeted right before the expedition that it was relying on Starlink: "Without any cell towers in the middle of the ocean, we are relying on @Starlink to provide the communications we require throughout this year's 2023 Titanic Expedition."
That is probably for the mother ship only. Stupid journalists don't ever try to explain things properly.
They use an underwater "modem". Starlink would be for "ship to shore" comms, albeit through space as an intermediary. The issue is the mother ship to Titan comm link, which is required for them to both know where they are and where to go.
More info on the comms and navigation>>>
https://sea-technology.com/marine-electronics-2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarinesQuote:
Quote:
iXblue INS, USBL Chosen
For Titanic Expedition
OceanGate Inc. and iXblue are combining forces to conduct the first manned submersible expedition to the wreck of the RMS Titanic since 2005. iXblue's Phins 6000 inertial navigation system and Posidonia USBL positioning system will be used for the accurate and reliable navigation and positioning of OceanGate's Titan, the newest addition to the company's fleet of deep-sea manned submersibles and the first privately owned manned submersible capable of reaching Titanic depths.
iXblue's strap-down fiber-optic gyroscope (FOG) technology, Phins 6000 subsea inertial navigation system (INS), provides accurate position, heading, attitude, speed and depth information as the manned submersible captures laser data and the first-ever 4K images of the RMS Titanic shipwreck and debris fields. Its high-accuracy inertial measurement unit is coupled with an embedded digital signal processor that runs an advanced Kalman filter for optimum positioning of the subsea vehicle.
Increased positioning precision of Titan on the shipwreck site will be provided by Posidonia, iXblue's long-range, high-accuracy USBL system operated from the surface ship and calibrated thanks to a Phins surface INS. Designed to track subsea vehicles to depths of 6,000 m at ranges reaching more than 10,000 m, Posidonia uses advanced acoustic modulation and digital signal processing technology and operates in the low frequency band for deep-sea tracking operations. To communicate with Posidonia, Titan is equipped with iXblue's MT8 compact low-frequency transponder.
Quote:
Quote:
Underwater modems
In April 2017, NATO's Centre for Maritime Research and Experimentation announced[12] the approval of JANUS, a standardized protocol to transmit digital information underwater using acoustic sound (as modems with acoustic couplers did in order to make use of analog telephone lines).[13] Documented in STANAG 4748, it uses 900 Hz to 60 kHz frequencies at distances of up to 28 kilometres (17 mi).[14][15] It is available for use with military and civilian, NATO and non-NATO devices; it was named after the Roman god of gateways, openings, etc.
Do you have a link for this? I haven't seen this to be accurate anywhere. I know the sub pinged right before it lost communication, but everything I've seen since says the current noises are simply some type of banging.agracer said:
not banging noises, distinct pings from the Titan itself.
It's so horrific, I am not sure I could even watch a movie about this. Basically, my worst imaginable fear.Hungry Ojos said:
I feel so terrible for these people. Just try to put yourself in that situation. Pure torture. I am hoping for a miracle, but time is running out (assuming they didn't already explode). I never thought they would be able to rescue all of those kids trapped in the cave in Thailand either, but thank God they did. Fingers crossed, praying like crazy.
bonfarr said:
Doesn't our Navy have an underwater cable all over the Atlantic that was laid during the Cold War to listen for Soviet Nuke subs? I think I read that in a Tom Clancy novel or something.
I wonder if it can pick up acoustics in the search area.
That is true. If you're interested in subs through the cold war, Blind Man's Bluff is an awesome non-fiction book.
Question on the planes picking up the banging noises - are they flying over and monitoring dropped SONAR buoys? If I recall, in our favorite Tom Clancy movie they mentioned they had dropped enough sonar buoys one could walk across the ocean. I assume that is same here.
I have a copy someone gave me and I keep meaning to read it.NukeAg10 said:
That is true. If you're interested in subs through the cold war, Blind Man's Bluff is an awesome non-fiction book.
The fiction books by Rick Campbell are good, too. I don't know how accurate they are in the details due to some things being classified and also in writing for those of us who haven't served on submarines.
techno-ag said:Figured. But how could they get that wrong? It's tied to the sub in the article, not the mothership. The way people use Snopes you just know someone will blame Musk for this and say Snopes backs them up.Burdizzo said:techno-ag said:Wow so Starlink works 2 miles under the ocean? Where do I sign up.aggiehawg said:
Snopes is blaming Elon and Starlink for the loss of communications.Via Hot AirQuote:
When news broke of the failed communications, a number of news reports and posts claimed that the missing submersible was relying on Elon Musk's Starlink satellites for its communications.
The claim is true. OceanGate, the company that operates the submersible, tweeted right before the expedition that it was relying on Starlink: "Without any cell towers in the middle of the ocean, we are relying on @Starlink to provide the communications we require throughout this year's 2023 Titanic Expedition."
That is probably for the mother ship only. Stupid journalists don't ever try to explain things properly.
Journalists often fall into two classifications - ignorant or lazy. Some are both. A diligent and informed journalist has become a rarity.
I can guarantee you with absolutely certainty that it did NOT explode.
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