Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]

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In reply to fka ftc • 3:10p, 6/20/23
AG
fka ftc said:
I think its clear this thing is much less safer than an old fashion diving bell.

While the ordeal is tragic for those involved, they all knowingly accepted the extreme risk in order to peer out a small window in a crowded can with suspect design and spotty operation.

I still have trouble understanding why the seemed to have cheaped on the communication. VLF/ELF communications has been around since the 1960's if not earlier and one would think this was what was deployed for text based communication they were using. But my limited understanding is that it is supposed to be quite reliable.

If not mistaken, wasn't this communication relied on in either Red October or Crimson Tide movies?

There was a story about another one of their dives where they lost contact with the surface ship for over an hour. It's insane. That's your only navigational aid and you think a comms black out that long while underwater is somehow okay.

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NPH-
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 3:14p, 6/20/23
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
McInnis 03 said:
This is going to be every lesson in engineering failures



Why? We have attack subs that use Xbox controllers for the optics on the mast. All it is is an input controller. There's no functional difference between this and a joystick.
you've clearly never made it 95 deep into warzone or fortnite and had to experience the in-depth haptic response that I xbox or ps5 controller provides in taking down sweaty 9-year olds.
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McInnis 03
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 3:15p, 6/20/23
AG
Call me crazy but I trust a wired Microsoft product more more than a wireless Logitech product......AND THAT'S AT SEA LEVEL
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fka ftc
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3:15p, 6/20/23
More info on the comms and navigation.

https://sea-technology.com/marine-electronics-2018
Quote:
iXblue INS, USBL Chosen
For Titanic Expedition
OceanGate Inc. and iXblue are combining forces to conduct the first manned submersible expedition to the wreck of the RMS Titanic since 2005. iXblue's Phins 6000 inertial navigation system and Posidonia USBL positioning system will be used for the accurate and reliable navigation and positioning of OceanGate's Titan, the newest addition to the company's fleet of deep-sea manned submersibles and the first privately owned manned submersible capable of reaching Titanic depths.

iXblue's strap-down fiber-optic gyroscope (FOG) technology, Phins 6000 subsea inertial navigation system (INS), provides accurate position, heading, attitude, speed and depth information as the manned submersible captures laser data and the first-ever 4K images of the RMS Titanic shipwreck and debris fields. Its high-accuracy inertial measurement unit is coupled with an embedded digital signal processor that runs an advanced Kalman filter for optimum positioning of the subsea vehicle.

Increased positioning precision of Titan on the shipwreck site will be provided by Posidonia, iXblue's long-range, high-accuracy USBL system operated from the surface ship and calibrated thanks to a Phins surface INS. Designed to track subsea vehicles to depths of 6,000 m at ranges reaching more than 10,000 m, Posidonia uses advanced acoustic modulation and digital signal processing technology and operates in the low frequency band for deep-sea tracking operations. To communicate with Posidonia, Titan is equipped with iXblue's MT8 compact low-frequency transponder.
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chase128
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 3:17p, 6/20/23
AG


I was watching this video earlier about the Alvin and it just seems on a whole other level than the Titan. They go into the controls of the Alvin later in the video.
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G Martin 87
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In reply to McInnis 03 • 3:18p, 6/20/23
AG
McInnis 03 said:
Call me crazy but I trust a wired Microsoft product more more than a wireless Logitech product......AND THAT'S AT SEA LEVEL
Right. A wired controller has the advantage of having a built-in tether. Maybe their controller got lost under the piles of Ziplock bags.
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fka ftc
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In reply to G Martin 87 • 3:23p, 6/20/23
G Martin 87 said:
McInnis 03 said:
Call me crazy but I trust a wired Microsoft product more more than a wireless Logitech product......AND THAT'S AT SEA LEVEL
Right. A wired controller has the advantage of having a built-in tether. Maybe their controller got lost under the piles of Ziplock bags.
Could be the pilot dropped in the chem toilet trying to pilot whilst delivering a deep sea duce.

Regardless, their use of off the shelf technology along with the spartan nature inside the sub, the owner saying he was losing money, and the repeated failed launches noted in the CBS story means considerable financial pressures.

Those pressures are just as critical as any of those encountered a mile below the surface.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 3:49p, 6/20/23
one MEEN Ag said:
As a sidenote, a software guy with a bachelors degree from Random U should have never been leading design like this. There should have been a team of deeply experienced engineers with deep sea vessel experience leading this project. There should have been a picture of the DSV ALVIN with the words, 'When in doubt, build this" underneath it.

Oh, so NOW you tell us...
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 4:21p, 6/20/23
ABATTBQ11 said:
McInnis 03 said:
This is going to be every lesson in engineering failures



Why? We have attack subs that use Xbox controllers for the optics on the mast. All it is is an input controller. There's no functional difference between this and a joystick.
I am thinking it's going to be comms that did this. I realize that's a tremendous depth, but I would want my comms tethered with that kind of danger.

Mother ship lost control and to the bottom it went.

Having scuba dived below 120 feet, I can tell you that once you descend to a certain depth, pressure pushes you down more and more quickly, requiring added buoyancy to compensate. It is kind of scary. And that's at 120'.
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NPH-
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4:23p, 6/20/23
AG
Does anyone have a link to a site where you can look at the new 3d scans that were recently revealed of the Titanic back in May?

All I can find are articles talking about the scans, but I thought at one time you could actually look at the scans on an in-depth 3d model.
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B-1 83
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 4:29p, 6/20/23
AG
That is scary as #$&@
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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aggiez03
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4:32p, 6/20/23
AG
Quote:
'We knew this was going to happen at some point' but 'nothing' was done about it

A deep sea explorer and oceanographer says the community "knew this was going to happen at some point", but added that "nothing was done about it".

Dr David Gallo told Sky News those in the deep sea exploration business are "stunned" by the disappearance of Titan.

He said: "Anyone in the exploration business of the deep sea expected this to happen, not at this particular time, but we knew this was going to happen at some point.

"We knew darn well it would and we knew all the difficulties around how you recover from it if the sub is stuck on a shipwreck, if they lose batteries and nothing was done about it, there's no policies, there's no plan.

"It just frustrates me. Now begins the scramble to try and get the right things at the right place at the right time and it's just an unnecessary step because we did know at some point this was going to happen and I think all of us in the community are stunned.

"It wasn't a surprise in a way, but oh my god it really did happen."
https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748?postid=6079017#liveblog-body
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PlaneCrashGuy
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6:07p, 6/20/23
stetson
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6:15p, 6/20/23
AG
I hear on the news this morning that sonobuoys were being deployed to locate sounds of tapping or voices. WTF, this thing doesn't have an electronic location transmitter??
FJB
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bmks270
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6:25p, 6/20/23
AG
The game controllers were redundant. In the interview he said they have spares.

It wasn't the game controller. Things they purchased were clearly more reliable than things they designed.

I've seen carbon fiber fail after single digit cycles. Cycling this in compression, which carbon fiber isn't good for, seems absolutely insane. Failure of carbon fiber in compression is notoriously unpredictable because it fails catastrophically and behaves like a brittle material.

Not to mention their oversize viewport, and somehow bonding or sealing the carbon fiber to the titanium end caps, and how that joint cycles with the external pressure…
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DannyDuberstein
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6:35p, 6/20/23
AG
This CBS reporter tweeted that they lost location of the sub for 5 hours on his visit last year (could text with it but didn't know location), it was very tense, and the company cut the internet on the boat so they could not tweet about it while it was happening.

Talk about marketing instead of reporting with that story, and tbh, a bit of complicity here IMO for leaving that out of his story
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to redcrayon • 7:02p, 6/20/23
AG
redcrayon said:
About 40 hours of oxygen would be left at this point.
Unless one of the people was smart and killed the other 4 as soon as there was a problem. Then there could be a month left!
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pdc093
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7:17p, 6/20/23
And it gets WORSE...

I'm actually lol at this point.
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BBRex
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In reply to stetson • 7:25p, 6/20/23
AG
If they somehow lost power or partial power, they might have to resort to some old-fashioned ways to get some sound in the water.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to BBRex • 7:27p, 6/20/23
AG
BBRex said:
If they somehow lost power or partial power, they might have to resort to some old-fashioned ways to get some sound in the water.
Which raises the question of what are they going to pound on and with what?
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BadMoonRisin
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In reply to pdc093 • 7:39p, 6/20/23
AG
No secured facility? Not even a locked storage locker? Not even...caution tape wrapped around it? A sign saying please do not touch this one of a kind prototype that if anything is ****ed with can kill people?

Just "please do not touch submarine equipment".

Wow. what a ****ty bootleg company. I would hope anyone willing to throw down a quarter mil for a Titanic ride visited their facility to see how shoddy it was.
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AggieRAB05
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7:47p, 6/20/23
AG
It looks like one of their first subs was classed by ABS, but not any of their others. There is an article from 2019 explaining why they don't have it. Oops! Glad it is not one of my companies classed vessels.
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Ag_of_08
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 7:50p, 6/20/23
AG
It's n9t the pressure pushing you down, it's the rapid compression of gasses in your BCD and body that cause the buoyancy variance. Especially if you have a neoprene wetsuit on, which gets heavily compressed
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BBRex
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In reply to aggiehawg • 7:54p, 6/20/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
BBRex said:
If they somehow lost power or partial power, they might have to resort to some old-fashioned ways to get some sound in the water.
Which raises the question of what are they going to pound on and with what?


Looks like metal around the window. Wrap a web belt with a metal buckle around your fist and hit it.
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Guitarsoup
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8:01p, 6/20/23
AG
https://oceangate.com/about/employment.html

Already hiring a new submarine pilot. Gotta keep the wheels churning.
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Guitarsoup
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8:21p, 6/20/23
AG
Lots of commercial boats aren't flagged in the country the company that owns them is located.

Carnival is located in Doral, Florida. But not a single ship flagged US.
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RikkiTikkaTagem
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In reply to stetson • 8:22p, 6/20/23
AG
stetson said:
I hear on the news this morning that sonobuoys were being deployed to locate sounds of tapping or voices. WTF, this thing doesn't have an electronic location transmitter??


Maybe Logitech doesn't make an electronic location transmitter? How were these guys supposed to build thing thing if they kept having to make multiple trips to Best Buy
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8:48p, 6/20/23
JABQ04
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In reply to [removed post] • 8:51p, 6/20/23
AG
I'd imagine they hope it could go down and somehow attach a cable to the Titan and have it hauled up

A very neat and not well known but of American deep sea operations was project Azorian where we were able to retrieve a large section of a Russian nuclear sub that sank in the Pacific in the 70s. Granted the whole Project also took like 6 or 7 years from inception to execution. The sun was almost 3 miles down.
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Anti-taxxer
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In reply to pdc093 • 8:52p, 6/20/23
AG
pdc093 said:
And it gets WORSE...

I'm actually lol at this point.

Plugged in?? What is it plugged in to?

And why?
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JABQ04
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9:04p, 6/20/23
AG
I haven't noticed anything but I'm assuming they've deployed ROVs to search?
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Aggie Hunter
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9:28p, 6/20/23
AG
Sorry if this has already been answered but how many successful trips has this company had?
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AggieMac06
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9:33p, 6/20/23
AG
Great breakdown of what we know and possible design flaws by Sub Brief.

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Lake08
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9:34p, 6/20/23
Interesting how those people paid 250k, but them and I have both seem the same views…..and I am alive
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Swan Song
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9:37p, 6/20/23
AG
Rescue plane hears "banging"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12216977/Searchers-Titanic-Tourist-Sub-Heard-Banging-Area-Internal-Comms-Reveal.html
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