Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]

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fka ftc
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 11:32a, 6/20/23
FTAG 2000 said:
BQ78 said:
The guy saying they hung up on the wreck is blowing smoke. The problem occurred well above the wreck.
One of his employees is the pilot of the sub.

Guessing he's getting out ahead of any potential lawsuits.

If the current pushed the sub into the Titanic then not his guy (or his company's) fault.
Given the nature of this expedition, I would predict liability was addressed and the participants knew and accepted the risks. The only one getting paid on this will be Oceangate for the loss of vehicle.

Just heard one of the passengers is 19yo son of another passenger. Sad situation but all of these folks engaged in super high risk activity, regardless of whether they further chose poorly by working with this outfit who seems at best willy nilly in their design and operation.
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 11:38a, 6/20/23
AG
FTAG 2000 said:
BQ78 said:
The guy saying they hung up on the wreck is blowing smoke. The problem occurred well above the wreck.
One of his employees is the pilot of the sub.

Guessing he's getting out ahead of any potential lawsuits.

If the current pushed the sub into the Titanic then not his guy (or his company's) fault.
The CEO & Founder of the OceanGate Expeditions company (Stockton Rush) is the pilot of the submersible.

At age 19 says he was the youngest trained jet transport rated pilot in the world. Aeronautical Engineering degree from Princeton. Now 61 years old. Apparently very wealthy from oil industry money.
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bmks270
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 11:44a, 6/20/23
AG
one MEEN Ag said:
fka ftc said:
one MEEN Ag said:
I mean, we're focusing on the carbon fiber, but there are way more interactions at play and it only takes one failure path. This looks to be a fiber hull epoxied to an aluminum base that is exposed on the viewport. I think its aluminum based upon the welds. and then a metal ring around the glass viewport with a bolt pattern of what looks like maybe 3/16" diameter bolts. I assume its covering an elastomer or thin metal seal underneath. Bolts you can overtorque with a wrench. You just overtorque this bolt pattern down wrong, think your too smart and don't use a star method when tightening them, and all of a sudden you've got 6000 psi fighting its way in. Again, look at the ALVIN, it doesn't look like this for a reason.

Found this of ALVIN's view ports. What is the distinction you are drawing on the view ports (obviously the look wildly different)?

Also, ALVIN is a sphere which from my accounting degree I know holds up better than a cylinder under compression from all sides.


I'm just pointing out that there are more ways for this thing to fail than just composite. Like we're all focused on composite rupture mechanics when it just as easily could be a something related to a weld quality, or how thin the sealing ring is and how flexible its going to be at 6000 psi, or the bolt design/torque down pattern. And this is just one of how many penetrations on it? Just spitballing there is a lot that can go wrong.



Their window is huge for those pressures. Lots of possible failure points. This design pushes the boundaries of materials in multiple areas.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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11:45a, 6/20/23
Cocktail napkin assessment:

We've got an unclassed experimental vessel carrying passengers for hire under the banner of scientific research.

I doubt they were insured for this risk.

They might have had some sort of self-insured excess but I doubt it.

The difference between this and traditional salvage situations is that the value of the vessel and cargo is zero.

So the likelihood that there will ever be a recovery by any party involved is near zero.

Rescue and recovery costs will ultimately be borne by the taxpayers of responding nations, with the benefit being real world training for the handful of countries with deep sea capability.
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Gigem314
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In reply to Jugstore Cowboy • 11:48a, 6/20/23
AG
Microwave Onions said:
Its Not Rocket Surgery said:
Seems safe...

CBS Sunday Morning - A Visit to RMS Titanic aboard the Titan submersible
That's incredible. The seemingly cavalier attitude looks pretty awful now.
"We run the whole thing with this game controller"

Uh...hell no.
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11:52a, 6/20/23
FTAG 2000
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In reply to Pumpkinhead • 11:55a, 6/20/23
AG
Pumpkinhead said:
FTAG 2000 said:
BQ78 said:
The guy saying they hung up on the wreck is blowing smoke. The problem occurred well above the wreck.
One of his employees is the pilot of the sub.

Guessing he's getting out ahead of any potential lawsuits.

If the current pushed the sub into the Titanic then not his guy (or his company's) fault.
The CEO & Founder of the OceanGate Expeditions company (Stockton Rush) is the pilot of the submersible.

At age 19 says he was the youngest trained jet transport rated pilot in the world. Aeronautical Engineering degree from Princeton. Now 61 years old. Apparently very wealthy from oil industry money.
Thanks, yeah, just saw that.

The report last night said the guy was the boss of the sub's pilot, french name was given.
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fka ftc
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In reply to [removed post] • 12:01p, 6/20/23
ac04 said:
a ****ty knockoff controller as well, they didn't even bother getting the name brand. unreal.
It was mentioned their is a toilet onboard. I imagine by that they mean here is a bag, be careful and do not overfill it.

That looks like time in a tank that is wet, musty, smelly and as the hours click by deuterating mental conditions of 5 people stuck in close proximity.
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Robert L. Peters
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 12:03p, 6/20/23
Who cares about financial recovery? The people that went on this were already wealthy and no amount of $$ is going to compensate anyone for suffocating in an underwater coffin.
What you say, Paper Champion? I'm gonna beat you like a dog, a dog, you hear me!
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redcrayon
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12:05p, 6/20/23
AG
ROV is there now.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to redcrayon • 12:06p, 6/20/23
AG
redcrayon said:
ROV is there now.
Whose?
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DannyDuberstein
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In reply to fka ftc • 12:07p, 6/20/23
AG
The "toilet" in that CBS story was a hospital piss bottle. It also appeared that there may have been only one. So pretty much
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BQ78
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In reply to [removed post] • 12:07p, 6/20/23
AG
Guess I shouldn't mention that our submersible controllers are high end game joy sticks.
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redcrayon
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12:07p, 6/20/23
AG
About 40 hours of oxygen would be left at this point.
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redcrayon
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In reply to aggiehawg • 12:08p, 6/20/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
redcrayon said:
ROV is there now.
Whose?
Not sure. Listening to live Coast Guard press conference.
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BQ78
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 12:09p, 6/20/23
AG
I think the prime seat in front of the window lifts up for the honey pot and they are able to hang a curtain between that seat and the others.
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D-Fens
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12:11p, 6/20/23
The billionaires family should post a $100M reward for anyone who spots on surface. You would have every fishing vessel out searching.

I'm pretty sure it already imploded. I would thing pinging from seafloor or signal at surface would locate by now.
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D-Fens
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In reply to BQ78 • 12:13p, 6/20/23
BQ78 said:
Guess I shouldn't mention that our submersible controllers are high end game joy sticks.


Imagine if this whole thing ends up being a Bluetooth pairing issue with the controllers.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to Robert L. Peters • 12:13p, 6/20/23
Were talking earlier about people getting sued and so forth.
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Andrew Dufresne
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In reply to BQ78 • 12:13p, 6/20/23
BQ78 said:
Guess I shouldn't mention that our submersible controllers are high end game joy sticks.
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Robert L. Peters
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In reply to D-Fens • 12:15p, 6/20/23
D-Fens said:
BQ78 said:
Guess I shouldn't mention that our submersible controllers are high end game joy sticks.


Imagine if this whole thing ends up being a Bluetooth pairing issue with the controllers.


Or drift stick because someone was using it all night to play golden eye.
What you say, Paper Champion? I'm gonna beat you like a dog, a dog, you hear me!
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BadMoonRisin
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12:16p, 6/20/23
AG
So if this thing did implode from the pressure, any guesses to what size of an object would be the result of that crushing pressure?
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ReloadAg
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12:19p, 6/20/23
AG
Wouldn't the US Navy be monitoring waters around the continent and have some idea of the whereabouts of all submarines?
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txags92
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In reply to ReloadAg • 12:29p, 6/20/23
AG
ReloadAg said:
Wouldn't the US Navy be monitoring waters around the continent and have some idea of the whereabouts of all submarines?
Don't believe the hype from Hollywood. We have specific means and ways to detect subs in a specific area if we want to, but we are far from having ocean-wide tracking capabilities this far from the coast.
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BearJew13
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In reply to ReloadAg • 12:32p, 6/20/23
AG
Even if the answer is yes, doubt we'd be hearing about it
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Sea Speed • 12:34p, 6/20/23
Sea Speed said:
FTAG 2000 said:
I just have a hard time believing the surface ship team doesn't have a really good idea of what happened.

Whether to cover up their incompetence, or not wanting to admit they contributed to the death of their boss, friend, and company, is something else.

But little chance they don't know what happened to that thing.


Just because we don't know doesn't mean they haven't been telling the authorities etc and it just hasn't trickled out. This is literally happening now in the middle of the north Atlantic. It isn't like reporters can just go to the scene and the people on board the mothership are probably a little busy trying to facilitate a rescue of any kind.
I'm always fascinated by the "why hasn't this been reported" people. Like, bro, journalists don't have a real-time phone line to even the most pedestrian of incidents. We usually find out minutes before the public does, and sometimes not even that.
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BBRex
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In reply to txags92 • 12:35p, 6/20/23
AG
txags92 said:
ReloadAg said:
Wouldn't the US Navy be monitoring waters around the continent and have some idea of the whereabouts of all submarines?
Don't believe the hype from Hollywood. We have specific means and ways to detect subs in a specific area if we want to, but we are far from having ocean-wide tracking capabilities this far from the coast.
There are hydrophone arrays in certain areas that could pick up the sound of a full-size submarine imploding as it goes below crush depth. And they could maybe triangulate a location. But something that small, that deep that's made of carbon fiber? That might be a tall order.

And let's say the Navy has something new that could actually pinpoint it. Do you make it known we have it just to find the final resting place of five civilians on a risky venture?
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jrrhouston98
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12:35p, 6/20/23
AG
Question for anyone who may know. Considering the size of this recovery/rescue mission now, what is the possibility that anyone would be held responsible for and be fined for the cost of the recovery? This is a significant expense for military assets for the US and Canada. Just curious since I don't believe they'll ever find any trace of this thing.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to txags92 • 12:38p, 6/20/23
txags92 said:
ReloadAg said:
Wouldn't the US Navy be monitoring waters around the continent and have some idea of the whereabouts of all submarines?
Don't believe the hype from Hollywood. We have specific means and ways to detect subs in a specific area if we want to, but we are far from having ocean-wide tracking capabilities this far from the coast.
Yeah, the ocean is big... and deep. You can't monitor all of it.
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aginlakeway
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12:41p, 6/20/23
AG
If they couldn't find Malaysia 370, they're unlike to find this.
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Rapier108
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In reply to aginlakeway • 12:43p, 6/20/23
aginlakeway said:
If they couldn't find Malaysia 370, they're unlike to find this.
Except no one knows where MH370 actually crashed other than somewhere in the Indian Ocean.

They have a good idea where the sub should be, even if it is in a thousand pieces now.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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aginlakeway
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In reply to Rapier108 • 12:44p, 6/20/23
AG
Rapier108 said:
aginlakeway said:
If they couldn't find Malaysia 370, they're unlike to find this.
Except no one knows where MH370 actually crashed other than somewhere in the Indian Ocean.

They have a good idea where the sub should be, even if it is in a thousand pieces now.

True. But those thousands of pieces are in a whole lot of water ...

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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to jrrhouston98 • 12:47p, 6/20/23
AG
jrrhouston98 said:
Question for anyone who may know. Considering the size of this recovery/rescue mission now, what is the possibility that anyone would be held responsible for and be fined for the cost of the recovery? This is a significant expense for military assets for the US and Canada. Just curious since I don't believe they'll ever find any trace of this thing.
The CEO and founder of the company is going to be dead. Sounded like the company wasn't even to a profitable stage; the founder was bankrolling a bunch of it.

All the passengers had to sign a multi-page waiver form indicating that they understood all the possible ways that they could die...which were apparently listed out in explicit detail paragraph by paragraph.
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txags92
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In reply to Pumpkinhead • 12:50p, 6/20/23
AG
Pumpkinhead said:
jrrhouston98 said:
Question for anyone who may know. Considering the size of this recovery/rescue mission now, what is the possibility that anyone would be held responsible for and be fined for the cost of the recovery? This is a significant expense for military assets for the US and Canada. Just curious since I don't believe they'll ever find any trace of this thing.
The CEO and founder of the company is going to be dead. Sounded like the company wasn't even to a profitable stage; the founder was bankrolling a bunch of it.

All the passengers had to sign a multi-page waiver form indicating that they understood all the possible ways that they could die...which were apparently listed out in explicit detail paragraph by paragraph.
That makes that "planned disappearance" idea posted earlier in the thread just a hair more plausible if it is true.
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redcrayon
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1:01p, 6/20/23
AG
WFLA has preliminary info they want to confirm before reporting. We'll see.
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