If there was a hull breach, it would likely all be over before they even realized what happened.
Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]
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Last: 4 mo ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
Doesn't the Navy have sensors up there? As in, if it imploded, they might have heard it?
My company worked in deep sea oil and gas field. Our submersibles worked in 12000 foot depths. Our well head equipment operated at 20k psi and tested to to 150%. Our riser systems worked at over 10000 feet. Trees also. All could be worked remotely due to design. Some smart engineers most being Aggies.
I cannot imagine a human being going down to those depths. Robotics and cameras are the sensible thing to use.
I cannot imagine a human being going down to those depths. Robotics and cameras are the sensible thing to use.
I would have assumed that Oceangate would have such robotic submersibles on board as well. The moment they lost communications, launch that to start searching at its last know location.Houstonag said:
My company worked in deep sea oil and gas field. Our submersibles worked in 12000 foot depths. Our well head equipment operated at 20k psi and tested to to 150%. Our riser systems worked at over 10000 feet. Trees also. All could be worked remotely due to design. Some smart engineers most being Aggies.
I cannot imagine a human being going down to those depths. Robotics and cameras are the sensible thing to use.
txags92 said:The air in your lungs will not expand when exposed to extra pressure from a hull breach. The extra pressure is acting on all of your tissues equally.aggiez03 said:Agree, meant it more like your lungs would be full of air that would expand rapidly at that high of a pressure which would be similar to what happens with the bends if you ascend too fast.lb3 said:Bends are only a problem when coming up, not going down to depth. If you don't get sliced in half by the 5000psi leaking water jet and survive the barotrauma, nitrogen narcosis would probably be your next worry.aggiez03 said:5000+ psiTeslag said:
A breach at those depths would be instant death right?
< 40 degree water temp
Deep diving record is about 1000 feet.
Diver disorientation starts at around 200 feet.
Pretty sure at 1000 feet they would still be dead as they would die from the bends or their lungs would explode when they went from 1 atm to 30 atm in a short amount of time.
The deep divers do it in just a few minutes and are highly trained and know the proper exhaling procedure as your the air in your lungs expands as you go deeper.
I was saying at even at 1000 feet that would be a problem, This is 10X that depth.
But interesting about 5000 psi water shooting in. That would be like getting cut in half by a water jet metal cutter.
It might create a shock wave that exceeds sound speed.
I think any buckling of the hull would KO these people before they could even sense it.
I think it's more likely some other system failed that strands them at depth than that the hull failed. However, carbon fiber composite is not a good choice for reliable and predictable material behavior.
Thanks. In clinical settings, O2 toxicity can be on the order of days. I wasn't thinking about instantly going to 350x normabaric O2 levels.AustinScubaAg said:lb3 said:Bends are only a problem when coming up, not going down to depth. If you don't get sliced in half by the 5000psi leaking water jet and survive the barotrauma, nitrogen narcosis would probably be your next worry.aggiez03 said:5000+ psiTeslag said:
A breach at those depths would be instant death right?
< 40 degree water temp
Deep diving record is about 1000 feet.
Diver disorientation starts at around 200 feet.
Pretty sure at 1000 feet they would still be dead as they would die from the bends or their lungs would explode when they went from 1 atm to 30 atm in a short amount of time.
The deep divers do it in just a few minutes and are highly trained and know the proper exhaling procedure as your the air in your lungs expands as you go deeper.
Your next issue would be oxygen toxicity. But it is a moot point at that depth your dead almost instantly if the hul breaches.
This sounds like one of the more horrible ways to go. Stranded at the bottom, vaporized in an instant…..just no on ever doing that kind of trip
Edit: Wrong thread.
BQ78 said:
We make submersibles and autonomous ships.
Do they determine their own destinies?
Even seeing the inside of that thing is a nope.aggiez03 said:Wow. Watching this video, it seems like these guys are hackers compared to someone like SpaceX.Its Not Rocket Surgery said:
Seems safe...
CBS Sunday Morning - A Visit to RMS Titanic aboard the Titan submersible
I realize it is not Space, but I am assuming the safety measures for 12,000+ deep can't be all that different from outer space.
Weights are just chunks of metal ?
Control is through a Logitec PC Game remote controller ?
My company used to work with an ROV company that could go down several thousand feet to ocean floor and their controls rooms looked like a Navy Ship or Cockpit of a Bomber.
These guys seem like treasure hunters who decided to turn into selling thrill rides...
Watch this 30 second clip from the middle. Game Controller, Rusty Metal Pipes for Ballast with Sand Bags
First dive attempt to a shelf, something broke and they couldn't dive
2nd attempt (1st to Titanic) they didn't find the Titanic and lost comms,
3rd attempt (2nd to Titanic) they did find it
Question for the Oil and Gas guys or Engineers on here.
A two mile umbilical doesn't see to be that big a deal based on what I have been told.
Any reason why they could not run a radio antenna down for communication with the sub ?
Even if you were to have a secondary sub at say 6000 feet that was nothing more than a relay station to keep comms going, seems like a no brainer.
After watching this video and reading a little bit about this company, they definitely seem reckless.
A two mile umbilical doesn't see to be that big a deal based on what I have been told.
Any reason why they could not run a radio antenna down for communication with the sub ?
Even if you were to have a secondary sub at say 6000 feet that was nothing more than a relay station to keep comms going, seems like a no brainer.
After watching this video and reading a little bit about this company, they definitely seem reckless.
Not just nope. No freaking nope. I am not doing that! I worked at a car lot in college and a few of the guys were ex enlisted submariners. They told me they'd stay under water for 6 months. That really takes a certain kind of person. I couldn't imagine doing that or the titanic thing.
You don't go down in a tube to the bottom of the Atlantic ocean unless you have too.
You don't go down in a tube to the bottom of the Atlantic ocean unless you have too.
What you say, Paper Champion? I'm gonna beat you like a dog, a dog, you hear me!
In one video the founder says they've been to the titanic 10 times.
Well we know how many they can't
That is my understanding, thus the too much stress and it just breaks open versus a steel hull. But it is lighter and cheaper to operate
And to Burdizzo:
No, they get programmed and monitored by a human, think a Predator drone on the sea. Really useful in Somalian waters.
And to Burdizzo:
No, they get programmed and monitored by a human, think a Predator drone on the sea. Really useful in Somalian waters.
I think the deepest subsea umbilical is 7,500FT water depth. If it was even possible you would need additional vessels/barges for the reels. Would add a lot more cost to the project.
I think navies around the world will be curious what the cause was, lots to learn to keep submariners safer.
One of three scenarios happened from worst case to less worse but still really bad:
1) Lost hull integrity and imploded
2) Got snagged up in the wreckage and are sitting down there. Will be extremely difficult to rescue. Clock is ticking on life support.
3) Lost all power/communications but are floating around on the surface somewhere…finding a needle in haystack…they are bolted in from outside so will still eventually run out of air even in this scenario, just like scenario #2.
Let's hope it is scenario #3 and surface search spots them. Best case to hope for.
1) Lost hull integrity and imploded
2) Got snagged up in the wreckage and are sitting down there. Will be extremely difficult to rescue. Clock is ticking on life support.
3) Lost all power/communications but are floating around on the surface somewhere…finding a needle in haystack…they are bolted in from outside so will still eventually run out of air even in this scenario, just like scenario #2.
Let's hope it is scenario #3 and surface search spots them. Best case to hope for.
The guy who built the sub claims there is other aquatic life in our solar system.
Radio doesn't work under water.
Subs have to shallow to communicate over the airwaves.
Subs have to shallow to communicate over the airwaves.
IIRC there was a Navy program years ago to look at stealth submarines - filament wound composite hulls, low observable coatings, etc. I don't think they ever figured out how to make the hull work.
The compression and expansion that would occur in carbon fiber composites would cause a lot of damage in a few uses. It is a hyper rigid matrix that doesn't like compression, not with forces like that. It would fail suddenly and catastrophically. It might be affected by the cold temperature as well.
Metals would've compressed uniformly but it is essentially a crystalline structure and would resist sudden failure.
Metals would've compressed uniformly but it is essentially a crystalline structure and would resist sudden failure.
How exactly was the sub able to communicate with its surface ship under two miles of water? This clearly must be possible in order for a lack of messages to be a concern.
Apparently it is possible to communicate underwater using laser technology...
These guys say they can go to 5,000 meters...
https://www.oceanit.com/products/ultra/
Datasheet: https://www.oceanit.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ULTRA-Flyer_Sep2022.pdf
After reading more, it appears they can maintain 100 mb at 100 meters horizontally. Doesn't say anything about long distances vertically.
These guys say they can go to 5,000 meters...
https://www.oceanit.com/products/ultra/
Datasheet: https://www.oceanit.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ULTRA-Flyer_Sep2022.pdf
After reading more, it appears they can maintain 100 mb at 100 meters horizontally. Doesn't say anything about long distances vertically.
The CBS video above said they did it through text messaging...BonfireNerd04 said:
How exactly was the sub able to communicate with its surface ship under two miles of water? This clearly must be possible in order for a lack of messages to be a concern.
Shell Stones is 10,000'. It was a roll of the dice the first time ROVs went to depth. Everyone figured it was going to be ok, but there were a lot of nerves the first time one was launched. There are some out there now rated to 12,000'. The sheer size of the equipment that goes to those depths is staggering.
If I were going to such depths, I would not go inside anything unless rated for at least 5 times what's needed for the pressure. So likely it is cost prohibitive or too large? I'm not a mechanical engineer.
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Supposedly the pressure on the sub is 6000 pounds per square inch at 13,000 feet.
That's just staggering.
Anyone want to lay odds on someone in the next 24 hours stating this was caused by climate change?
That's just staggering.
Anyone want to lay odds on someone in the next 24 hours stating this was caused by climate change?
jrrhouston98 said:
Shell Stones is 10,000'. It was a roll of the dice the first time ROVs went to depth. Everyone figured it was going to be ok, but there were a lot of nerves the first time one was launched. There are some out there now rated to 12,000'. The sheer size of the equipment that goes to those depths is staggering.
Yeah, right now you have "experts" on the news talking about how they can retrieve it from sea floor with cables and a "claw". It's 800 miles from shore; even if there were vessels with reels and ROVs already loaded, it would be too late. Not gonna happen.
They find it on the surface within next couple days, or they are all dead. If dead, hopefully via implosion and not a slow miserable death.
Referencing the almighty engineer toolbox dot com, 5x factor of safety is within the typical range for boilers. Would think submersible pressure vessels are at least on that order. Also not a mech eng
You would think that they would include an "I'm dead/in trouble." bouy like on real subs but w/e.
The pics of the sub show it to be coated white or not coated plain metallic. Maybe a dumb question but why wouldn't they use marine paint - bright orange or something that wouldn't blend into the vast ocean if it did have to surface.
CivilAg10 said:
Referencing the almighty engineer toolbox dot com, 5x factor of safety is within the typical range for boilers. Would think submersible pressure vessels are at least on that order. Also not a mech eng
Apparently it is typically only a 1.5x safety factor.
https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/submarine-design-structure-of-a-submarine/
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