Adventure to the Titanic goes terribly wrong [Staff Warning in OP]

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BQ78
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In reply to Rocky Rider • 1:13p, 6/19/23
AG
At least one of the founders was on board
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lb3
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In reply to aggiez03 • 1:14p, 6/19/23
AG
aggiez03 said:
Teslag said:
A breach at those depths would be instant death right?
5000+ psi
< 40 degree water temp

Deep diving record is about 1000 feet.

Diver disorientation starts at around 200 feet.

Pretty sure at 1000 feet they would still be dead as they would die from the bends or their lungs would explode when they went from 1 atm to 30 atm in a short amount of time.

The deep divers do it in just a few minutes and are highly trained and know the proper exhaling procedure as your the air in your lungs expands as you go deeper.

Bends are only a problem when coming up, not going down to depth. If you don't get sliced in half by the 5000psi leaking water jet and survive the barotrauma, nitrogen narcosis would probably be your next worry.
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CivilAg10
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1:17p, 6/19/23
AG
If the hull collapsed, they likely died before even being aware that the collapse happened. Not sure about the smaller subs, but on a more standard naval submarine, the instantaneous pressure change associated with an hull implosion is enough to cause the gasses inside to combust and instantly vaporize everything.
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aggiez03
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In reply to lb3 • 1:23p, 6/19/23
AG
lb3 said:
aggiez03 said:
Teslag said:
A breach at those depths would be instant death right?
5000+ psi
< 40 degree water temp

Deep diving record is about 1000 feet.

Diver disorientation starts at around 200 feet.

Pretty sure at 1000 feet they would still be dead as they would die from the bends or their lungs would explode when they went from 1 atm to 30 atm in a short amount of time.

The deep divers do it in just a few minutes and are highly trained and know the proper exhaling procedure as your the air in your lungs expands as you go deeper.

Bends are only a problem when coming up, not going down to depth. If you don't get sliced in half by the 5000psi leaking water jet and survive the barotrauma, nitrogen narcosis would probably be your next worry.
Agree, meant it more like your lungs would be full of air that would expand rapidly at that high of a pressure which would be similar to what happens with the bends if you ascend too fast.
I was saying at even at 1000 feet that would be a problem, This is 10X that depth.

But interesting about 5000 psi water shooting in. That would be like getting cut in half by a water jet metal cutter.
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Its Not Rocket Surgery
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1:33p, 6/19/23
AG
Seems safe...

CBS Sunday Morning - A Visit to RMS Titanic aboard the Titan submersible
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AndAg
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1:41p, 6/19/23
AG
A buddy of mine used to work for the company that made the hull. Said he wasn't on the project but happened to have seen some of the plans back then. Also stated there was no way he would have ever gotten on it.
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D-Fens
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2:09p, 6/19/23
It sounds like sub has weights that are auto disengaged after a certain time period allowing the sub to float to surface. They are saying its 24hrs, which is any minute now.

There is also survival equipment and provisions that last for 90 hours.
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plain_o_llama
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2:24p, 6/19/23
Michael Guillen is a former Science editor with ABC News. He recently published a book called "Believing is Seeing" explaining his path from Atheism to Christianity. Part of his story includes his "Titanic Moment" where in 2000 while diving on the Titanic wreck in a 3 man Russian submersible they got stuck for an hour in the Titanic's propellers.

A search produced this video of him talking about the experience:


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BQ78
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In reply to D-Fens • 2:45p, 6/19/23
AG
Afraid they are done. Coast Guard is looking for debris. It was supposed to be a six hour mission and they had been gone for 72 hours when they asked for assistance this morning. We are helping Coast Guard making predictions on debris fields.
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jrdaustin
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2:50p, 6/19/23
AG
I was just listening on the radio as they talked about mechanical scrubbers and how long the air could last if they completely lost power.

My first thought was if the hull somehow remained intact, how long before hypothermia would set in? I would think that would do them in long before CO2 scrubbers became an issue. How long would the temperature be survivable without power?
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fc2112
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In reply to BQ78 • 2:50p, 6/19/23
BQ78 said:
Carbon fiber hull and unclassed vehicle was a recipe for disaster on this one. Probably why the fare was so high too.

Carbon fiber hull would typically be great in tension (bursting pressuriz) but not so good for stability (crushing pressure)
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aggiehawg
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In reply to BQ78 • 2:53p, 6/19/23
AG
BQ78 said:
Afraid they are done. Coast Guard is looking for debris. It was supposed to be a six hour mission and they had been gone for 72 hours when they asked for assistance this morning. We are helping Coast Guard making predictions on debris fields.
So sad. Thanks for the update.
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redcrayon
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In reply to BQ78 • 2:53p, 6/19/23
AG
BQ78 said:
Afraid they are done. Coast Guard is looking for debris. It was supposed to be a six hour mission and they had been gone for 72 hours when they asked for assistance this morning. We are helping Coast Guard making predictions on debris fields.
I read that they had just launched yesterday?
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BQ78
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In reply to fc2112 • 3:04p, 6/19/23
AG
Steel flexes under extreme pressure, carbon fiber breeches.
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aggiehawg
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3:05p, 6/19/23
AG
Listening now to FNC that they lost communications about an hour and thirty minutes into the dive. That changes things.
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BQ78
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In reply to redcrayon • 3:06p, 6/19/23
AG
Not what the CG is telling us
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plain_o_llama
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3:25p, 6/19/23
British billionaire likely on board

Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65953872

Contact with the submersible was lost about one hour and 45 minutes into the vessel's dive, the US coast guard said.

Tour firm OceanGate said it was exploring all options to get the crew back safely.
Government agencies and deep sea firms are helping the rescue operation.

OceanGate charges $250,000 a seat for expeditions to the Titanic, which lies some 3,800m (12,500ft) beneath the waves about 435 miles (700km) south of St John's, Newfoundland.
The missing craft is believed to be OceanGate's Titan submersible, a truck-sized sub that holds five people and usually dives with a four-day supply of oxygen.

Hamish Harding, a 58-year-old British billionaire businessman and explorer, is among those on the missing submarine, his family said.

On social media at the weekend, Mr Harding said he was "proud to finally announce" that he would be aboard the mission to the wreck of the Titanic - but added that due to the "worst winter in Newfoundland in 40 years, this mission is likely to be the first and only manned mission to the Titanic in 2023".
He later wrote: "A weather window has just opened up and we are going to attempt a dive tomorrow."
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D-Fens
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3:32p, 6/19/23
Space tourist billionaire Hamish Harding on board.
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fc2112
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3:33p, 6/19/23
So if the hull even started to breech, either you get cut in half by a water jet or your body explodes? I guess both are quick.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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3:34p, 6/19/23
The sea is unforgiving.
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D-Fens
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3:38p, 6/19/23
The sub pinging to land base stopped 7 hours ago. Probably when an implosion happened and they decided to call coast guard.
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bmks270
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3:44p, 6/19/23
AG
Composites In compression?
This is like an engineering 101 no no. But assume the hull is fine and intact, there are a lot of other things that could go wrong. If any system fails its game over.

Is this its first dive to this depth with humans? Did they send it down with dummies to test it before diving with live humans?
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Sea Speed
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 3:47p, 6/19/23
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
The sea is unforgiving.


She is a vile mistress, but how I love her so.
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TexasRebel
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3:49p, 6/19/23
AG
Carbon fiber in compression? Why put any carbon fiber in it? Just make the thing out of the binder.
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aggiez03
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In reply to Its Not Rocket Surgery • 3:54p, 6/19/23
AG
Its Not Rocket Surgery said:
Seems safe...

CBS Sunday Morning - A Visit to RMS Titanic aboard the Titan submersible
Wow. Watching this video, it seems like these guys are hackers compared to someone like SpaceX.

I realize it is not Space, but I am assuming the safety measures for 12,000+ deep can't be all that different from outer space.

Weights are just chunks of metal ?

Control is through a Logitec PC Game remote controller ?

My company used to work with an ROV company that could go down several thousand feet to ocean floor and their controls rooms looked like a Navy Ship or Cockpit of a Bomber.

These guys seem like treasure hunters who decided to turn into selling thrill rides...



Watch this 30 second clip from the middle. Game Controller, Rusty Metal Pipes for Ballast with Sand Bags
First dive attempt to a shelf, something broke and they couldn't dive
2nd attempt (1st to Titanic) they didn't find the Titanic and lost comms,
3rd attempt (2nd to Titanic) they did find it
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TXAG 05
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4:17p, 6/19/23
AG
Hopefully they went quickly and aren't just sitting there waiting for their air to run out.
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Fightin_Aggie
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In reply to BQ78 • 4:18p, 6/19/23
AG
BQ78 said:
I'm told this operation is out of Newfoundland but their HQ is in Everett, Washington. They developed the Titan with the U of Washington and consulted with NASA. They went with the Carbon Fiber because it is lighter and easily retrieved. Our guys think they traded ease and cost of operation for safety.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of a carbon fiber hull under repeated loading and unloading.

I'm not as familiar with carbon fiber but doesn't it have a fatigue limit?
The world needs mean tweets

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AustinScubaAg
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In reply to lb3 • 4:20p, 6/19/23
AG
lb3 said:
aggiez03 said:
Teslag said:
A breach at those depths would be instant death right?
5000+ psi
< 40 degree water temp

Deep diving record is about 1000 feet.

Diver disorientation starts at around 200 feet.

Pretty sure at 1000 feet they would still be dead as they would die from the bends or their lungs would explode when they went from 1 atm to 30 atm in a short amount of time.

The deep divers do it in just a few minutes and are highly trained and know the proper exhaling procedure as your the air in your lungs expands as you go deeper.

Bends are only a problem when coming up, not going down to depth. If you don't get sliced in half by the 5000psi leaking water jet and survive the barotrauma, nitrogen narcosis would probably be your next worry.


Your next issue would be oxygen toxicity. But it is a moot point at that depth your dead almost instantly if the hul breaches.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to AustinScubaAg • 4:22p, 6/19/23
AG
What is oxygen toxicity?
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bmks270
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In reply to TXAG 05 • 4:25p, 6/19/23
AG
TXAG 05 said:
Hopefully they went quickly and aren't just sitting there waiting for their air to run out.


Many failure modes. Maybe they float back to the surface in a day. The guy in the video said you could lose a few systems and still be safe.

It looks like they've made it to the titanic and back before.

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plain_o_llama
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4:26p, 6/19/23
When looking at the background of Oceangate leaders...

Current link to Director of Engineering isn't working.

https://oceangate.com/about/leadership.html

Looking back, here is one from April:

https://web.archive.org/web/20230424183019/https://www.oceangate.com/about/leadership/phil-brooks.html

As Director of Engineering, Phil Brooks is responsible for all engineering of OceanGate's innovative fleet of manned submersibles. Phil has made major contributions to OceanGate's flagship submersible, Titan, developing several techniques for Acoustic Emission Monitoring of its carbon fiber hull. Brooks has also developed the navigation, communication, and propulsion systems for Titan and Cyclops.

Prior to OceanGate, Brooks worked as a software and hardware engineer for Microsoft, Intel, Siemens, and other tech companies.

His primary industry experience has been in the field of medical systems and medical imaging. While at Resonex, Brooks co-authored the patent for MRI Kinematic Imaging. He has several other patents in display driver technology. Phil also developed the Natus Cerebral Function Monitor, CFM 6000, a system for monitoring brain activity.

Brooks holds a bachelor's degree in computer science from Seattle Pacific University.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to plain_o_llama • 4:31p, 6/19/23
AG
Quote:
Brooks holds a bachelor's degree in computer science from Seattle Pacific University.
Not an MIT guy, I see.
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txags92
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In reply to aggiehawg • 4:42p, 6/19/23
AG
When you breathe compressed air containing oxygen at a partial pressure above 1.4 to 1.6 atmospheres you risk toxicity to the CNS that can cause all manner of mental issues, but worst is convulsions which can be deadly when diving.

https://dan.org/health-medicine/health-resources/diseases-conditions/oxygen-toxicity/
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aggiehawg
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In reply to txags92 • 4:44p, 6/19/23
AG
Thank you.
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txags92
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In reply to aggiez03 • 4:45p, 6/19/23
AG
aggiez03 said:
lb3 said:
aggiez03 said:
Teslag said:
A breach at those depths would be instant death right?
5000+ psi
< 40 degree water temp

Deep diving record is about 1000 feet.

Diver disorientation starts at around 200 feet.

Pretty sure at 1000 feet they would still be dead as they would die from the bends or their lungs would explode when they went from 1 atm to 30 atm in a short amount of time.

The deep divers do it in just a few minutes and are highly trained and know the proper exhaling procedure as your the air in your lungs expands as you go deeper.

Bends are only a problem when coming up, not going down to depth. If you don't get sliced in half by the 5000psi leaking water jet and survive the barotrauma, nitrogen narcosis would probably be your next worry.
Agree, meant it more like your lungs would be full of air that would expand rapidly at that high of a pressure which would be similar to what happens with the bends if you ascend too fast.
I was saying at even at 1000 feet that would be a problem, This is 10X that depth.

But interesting about 5000 psi water shooting in. That would be like getting cut in half by a water jet metal cutter.
The air in your lungs will not expand when exposed to extra pressure from a hull breach. The extra pressure is acting on all of your tissues equally.
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