samurai_science said:

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LMCane said:

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AggieEP said:

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What you did was a crime. According to your own account, you took out loans for education under false pretenses in order to take on phony debt that the government would then pay back via a clause in your contract. Then you used those fraudulently acquired funds to buy a truck.

Is it a crime that will put you in jail, likely not, but I've had to give my own troops Article 15s for misusing their GTCs before on amounts less than $500.00. What you've done here is at a minimum article 15 territory, and perhaps rising to administrative discharge based on your callous disregard for the moral questions surrounding your use of the fraudulently acquired loan monies.

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Hard to believe this guy would be an actual officer in the Army

but certainly seems not only under the UCMJ an Article 15 but "Conduct Unbecoming an Officer"

guarantee this guy is not bragging about what he did to the Colonel in charge of his Engineering unit.

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The fraud is real....hopefully TA can get his IP at least and notify someone.

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He's known to many on here but TA would definitely give the federal govt his info if ordered to.

redcrayon said:

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Teslag said:

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Again. The proceeds are a simple reimbursement from the school. It is not a loan payable to the borrower.

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No. It's a loan. And you agreed to use it for certain expenses, a vehicle purchase being specifically excluded. Your scheme is fraud.

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I think the simpleton is trying to argue that once he dropped classes and took his refund from the school, that at that point he'd laundered the money so it wasn't a loan anymore, but rather a tuition refund.

So, his defense of fraud, is that he was actually just laundering the money. So totally ok and not a problem.

txags92 said:

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Not a Bot said:

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I feel bad for people entering some professions that require a college degree but also don't pay very well.

Think about your local assistant prosecutors, public defenders, teachers (the good ones), social workers, etc.

These are very needed public service professions that are increasingly expensive to enter thanks to tuition increases but without much financial reward.

If there's any sort of debt forgiveness on the table, it should always be structured around public service.

I have zero interest in using my tax dollars or printing money to hand to people with gender studies degrees or other useless invented sociology indoctrination that doesn't do anything to serve society. Would much rather use my tax dollars and/or print money to give to people who are actually doing good for the community.

---

The reasons the tuition and fees have gone up so much are:

1) Because we have decoupled the value of the degree from the cost to get it by making student loans so easy to get and backing them with federal guarantees. If the banks funding the loans had to rely on people to actually pay them back, they would never make 90% of the loans they are making right now. If the banks will loan anything to anybody for any degree, why not raise the tuition and fees, because the students will just take out bigger loans to pay them.

and

2) With that "easy money" of higher tuition, colleges have gone on an orgy of hiring administrators and staff and propping up brand new departments and degree programs offering popular but worthless degrees to students willing to take out loans to pay for them. If you graph the cost of a college degree alongside the growth in administrative staff, the growth in administrative and faculty salaries, and the growth of student loan debt, they will match up really closely. But if you add a line showing the "value" of the average degree, you will see that it has not grown nearly as fast.

Easy solution. Take away federal backing for student loans and let the financial institutions take the risk on who they give loans to. The # and amount of loans will go WAY down. The universities and degree programs not offering good values for their degree costs will have banks unwilling to loan their students money to attend. Ultimately, the universities will have to reduce the costs back to a level that is commensurate with the value their degrees provide to the students, which will result in the elimination of a lot of useless administrators and shutting down departments and degree programs that can't demonstrate that their degrees are worth what they cost.

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That's too unreliable. Make the college/universities loan "their" money to the students, payable in monthly increments from the paychecks the graduates earn from the job those degrees prepared them for. That should end the non-engineering,non-business, non-marketable skills bullsh*t degrees in a hurry.

AggieEP said:

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redcrayon said:

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Teslag said:

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Again. The proceeds are a simple reimbursement from the school. It is not a loan payable to the borrower.

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No. It's a loan. And you agreed to use it for certain expenses, a vehicle purchase being specifically excluded. Your scheme is fraud.

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I think the simpleton is trying to argue that once he dropped classes and took his refund from the school, that at that point he'd laundered the money so it wasn't a loan anymore, but rather a tuition refund.

So, his defense of fraud, is that he was actually just laundering the money. So totally ok and not a problem.

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He's an idiot. It's a loan with a promissory note.

redcrayon said:

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Teslag said:

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Again. The proceeds are a simple reimbursement from the school. It is not a loan payable to the borrower.

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No. It's a loan. And you agreed to use it for certain expenses, a vehicle purchase being specifically excluded. Your scheme is fraud.

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Fine. I used it for housing, computer, and all my other covered expenses and bought the truck with my own money. We can play this game all day. That's why no one gives a **** about loan refunds.

Teslag said:

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I took out thousands in loans for an online graduate program years ago before I went to WOCS. I would immediately drop all of my classes both semesters after enrollment day. I had $40k in student loan repayment in my then enlistment contract but no loans. So I used them to buy a truck in cash, then used the army student loan repayment to pay them off since they weren't tied to academic progress.

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Congratulations on gaming the system, I guess.

ETA: I guess my wife and I are idiots. Before we married she had bought a condo for ~$60,000. We could have had her declare bankruptcy prior to our marriage, especially since I already owned a home. We decided that was unethical. We rented it at a monthly loss of ~$160 for decades. When we sold it we took another hit in taxes due to depreciation taken on our income taxes. That market had collapsed in far east Dallas county due to over building. Thousands of people were declaring bankruptcy to get out from under their obligations.

But you know what? I feel we did the ethical and honorable thing.

StonewallAggieDEFENSE said:

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txags92 said:

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Not a Bot said:

---

I feel bad for people entering some professions that require a college degree but also don't pay very well.

Think about your local assistant prosecutors, public defenders, teachers (the good ones), social workers, etc.

These are very needed public service professions that are increasingly expensive to enter thanks to tuition increases but without much financial reward.

If there's any sort of debt forgiveness on the table, it should always be structured around public service.

I have zero interest in using my tax dollars or printing money to hand to people with gender studies degrees or other useless invented sociology indoctrination that doesn't do anything to serve society. Would much rather use my tax dollars and/or print money to give to people who are actually doing good for the community.

---

The reasons the tuition and fees have gone up so much are:

1) Because we have decoupled the value of the degree from the cost to get it by making student loans so easy to get and backing them with federal guarantees. If the banks funding the loans had to rely on people to actually pay them back, they would never make 90% of the loans they are making right now. If the banks will loan anything to anybody for any degree, why not raise the tuition and fees, because the students will just take out bigger loans to pay them.

and

2) With that "easy money" of higher tuition, colleges have gone on an orgy of hiring administrators and staff and propping up brand new departments and degree programs offering popular but worthless degrees to students willing to take out loans to pay for them. If you graph the cost of a college degree alongside the growth in administrative staff, the growth in administrative and faculty salaries, and the growth of student loan debt, they will match up really closely. But if you add a line showing the "value" of the average degree, you will see that it has not grown nearly as fast.

Easy solution. Take away federal backing for student loans and let the financial institutions take the risk on who they give loans to. The # and amount of loans will go WAY down. The universities and degree programs not offering good values for their degree costs will have banks unwilling to loan their students money to attend. Ultimately, the universities will have to reduce the costs back to a level that is commensurate with the value their degrees provide to the students, which will result in the elimination of a lot of useless administrators and shutting down departments and degree programs that can't demonstrate that their degrees are worth what they cost.

---

That's too unreliable. Make the college/universities loan "their" money to the students, payable in monthly increments from the paychecks the graduates earn from the job those degrees prepared them for. That should end the non-engineering,non-business, non-marketable skills bullsh*t degrees in a hurry.

---

I understand the sentiment on this board runs heavily against BA degrees, but I think it's a bit extreme to start and push for any policy that totally eliminates the arts. My history and language degrees have allowed me to contribute quite a bit to society and the protection of our country. Currently, I use them at work training officers and enlisted in our military on how to learn languages and how to interact with peoples and cultures around the world. Formerly I used my knowledge of the middle east and middle eastern languages to help kill terrorists. I'm fairly sure engineers and doctors can't do what I can do, and we've always needed people like me.

For context I took a BA in History and French before moving into Middle Eastern languages for my graduate work and then moving into military applications of my expertise. In your paradigm, I would have never been able to professionalize my skills in college.

ETA, I'm not excited about the existence of gender studies, race studies, etc. degrees, but once you go down the path of destruction of the arts, it's hard to draw the line. Are language degrees good? But music worthless? Who makes that call? I personally love music, it's one of the most beautiful things about the human race, our ability to make music, but yet the free market clearly doesn't value degrees in it. Should that be enough to cut music programs?

Teslag said:

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redcrayon said:

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Teslag said:

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Again. The proceeds are a simple reimbursement from the school. It is not a loan payable to the borrower.

---

No. It's a loan. And you agreed to use it for certain expenses, a vehicle purchase being specifically excluded. Your scheme is fraud.

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Fine. I used it for housing, computer, and all my other covered expenses and bought the truck with my own money. We can play this game all day. That's why no one gives a **** about loan refunds.

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Nope. You already admitted to what you did with the money.

At least now you admit it was a loan. But you really had no choice, I guess. You're a fraud. Respectable veterans can't stand people like you.

I'm sorry to disappoint you. I'll never get over it.

Teslag said:

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I'm sorry to disappoint you. I'll never get over it.

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Save it for your family. You're embarrassing.

And it's not just me. Many soldiers with SLRP pay for school with hazel wood or tuition assistance, take max loan amount and just pay their rent/mortgage, whatever to free up more discretionary spending. Then they use the SLRP to pay it off. If you earned the bonus you should use it.

Teslag said:

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AggieMD95 said:

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Teslag said:

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Nope, but I'm $40k richer

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Not really. You invested in a depreciating asset

But good for you dawg

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Except I was buying it anyway. Except this way the army did.

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No, the tax payers did.

SLRP is taxable just as any other bonus.

AggieEP said:

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StonewallAggieDEFENSE said:

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txags92 said:

---

Not a Bot said:

---

I feel bad for people entering some professions that require a college degree but also don't pay very well.

Think about your local assistant prosecutors, public defenders, teachers (the good ones), social workers, etc.

These are very needed public service professions that are increasingly expensive to enter thanks to tuition increases but without much financial reward.

If there's any sort of debt forgiveness on the table, it should always be structured around public service.

I have zero interest in using my tax dollars or printing money to hand to people with gender studies degrees or other useless invented sociology indoctrination that doesn't do anything to serve society. Would much rather use my tax dollars and/or print money to give to people who are actually doing good for the community.

---

The reasons the tuition and fees have gone up so much are:

1) Because we have decoupled the value of the degree from the cost to get it by making student loans so easy to get and backing them with federal guarantees. If the banks funding the loans had to rely on people to actually pay them back, they would never make 90% of the loans they are making right now. If the banks will loan anything to anybody for any degree, why not raise the tuition and fees, because the students will just take out bigger loans to pay them.

and

2) With that "easy money" of higher tuition, colleges have gone on an orgy of hiring administrators and staff and propping up brand new departments and degree programs offering popular but worthless degrees to students willing to take out loans to pay for them. If you graph the cost of a college degree alongside the growth in administrative staff, the growth in administrative and faculty salaries, and the growth of student loan debt, they will match up really closely. But if you add a line showing the "value" of the average degree, you will see that it has not grown nearly as fast.

Easy solution. Take away federal backing for student loans and let the financial institutions take the risk on who they give loans to. The # and amount of loans will go WAY down. The universities and degree programs not offering good values for their degree costs will have banks unwilling to loan their students money to attend. Ultimately, the universities will have to reduce the costs back to a level that is commensurate with the value their degrees provide to the students, which will result in the elimination of a lot of useless administrators and shutting down departments and degree programs that can't demonstrate that their degrees are worth what they cost.

---

That's too unreliable. Make the college/universities loan "their" money to the students, payable in monthly increments from the paychecks the graduates earn from the job those degrees prepared them for. That should end the non-engineering,non-business, non-marketable skills bullsh*t degrees in a hurry.

---

I understand the sentiment on this board runs heavily against BA degrees, but I think it's a bit extreme to start and push for any policy that totally eliminates the arts. My history and language degrees have allowed me to contribute quite a bit to society and the protection of our country. Currently, I use them at work training officers and enlisted in our military on how to learn languages and how to interact with peoples and cultures around the world. Formerly I used my knowledge of the middle east and middle eastern languages to help kill terrorists. I'm fairly sure engineers and doctors can't do what I can do, and we've always needed people like me.

For context I took a BA in History and French before moving into Middle Eastern languages for my graduate work and then moving into military applications of my expertise. In your paradigm, I would have never been able to professionalize my skills in college.

ETA, I'm not excited about the existence of gender studies, race studies, etc. degrees, but once you go down the path of destruction of the arts, it's hard to draw the line. Are language degrees good? But music worthless? Who makes that call? I personally love music, it's one of the most beautiful things about the human race, our ability to make music, but yet the free market clearly doesn't value degrees in it. Should that be enough to cut music programs?

---

I'm ok with you, not you personally, getting any worthless degree you want as long as the taxpayers don't fund it.

The colleges should fund it imo. If they are going to offer a degree that can't be monetized by the student post grad, then they pay the student debt.

What this is is gigantic wealth redistribution to the academic elites.

These exchanges are so amusing to read.


Thanks guys

Teslag said:

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SLRP is taxable just as any other bonus.

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I am sorry. You are confusing what may be technically legal with what is considered ethical and honorable.

Disturbs me greatly we have officers in the military that can so openly display a lack ethical or moral compass

Ethics is usually something tossed around by people who lack the ability analyze a situation and work within a given set of rules.


Then are upset they didn't figure out first.

harleyds2 said:

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Disturbs me greatly we have officers in the military that can so openly display a lack ethical or moral compass

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It's gonna get a lot worse.

Teslag said:

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Ethics is usually something tossed around by people who lack the ability analyze a situation and work within a given set of rules.


Then are upset they didn't figure out first.

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You didn't work within the rules.

I absolutely did. And if I were under oath I'd state exactly what I used my loan refund for and let them do all the auditing they wanted to do.

Teslag said:

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I absolutely did. And if I were under oath I'd state exactly what I used my loan refund for and let them do all the auditing they wanted to do.

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Just walk away. I posted the regs. Your first post on this thread proves you committed fraud.

Believe whatever you like

AggieEP said:

---

StonewallAggieDEFENSE said:

---

txags92 said:

---

Not a Bot said:

---

I feel bad for people entering some professions that require a college degree but also don't pay very well.

Think about your local assistant prosecutors, public defenders, teachers (the good ones), social workers, etc.

These are very needed public service professions that are increasingly expensive to enter thanks to tuition increases but without much financial reward.

If there's any sort of debt forgiveness on the table, it should always be structured around public service.

I have zero interest in using my tax dollars or printing money to hand to people with gender studies degrees or other useless invented sociology indoctrination that doesn't do anything to serve society. Would much rather use my tax dollars and/or print money to give to people who are actually doing good for the community.

---

The reasons the tuition and fees have gone up so much are:

1) Because we have decoupled the value of the degree from the cost to get it by making student loans so easy to get and backing them with federal guarantees. If the banks funding the loans had to rely on people to actually pay them back, they would never make 90% of the loans they are making right now. If the banks will loan anything to anybody for any degree, why not raise the tuition and fees, because the students will just take out bigger loans to pay them.

and

2) With that "easy money" of higher tuition, colleges have gone on an orgy of hiring administrators and staff and propping up brand new departments and degree programs offering popular but worthless degrees to students willing to take out loans to pay for them. If you graph the cost of a college degree alongside the growth in administrative staff, the growth in administrative and faculty salaries, and the growth of student loan debt, they will match up really closely. But if you add a line showing the "value" of the average degree, you will see that it has not grown nearly as fast.

Easy solution. Take away federal backing for student loans and let the financial institutions take the risk on who they give loans to. The # and amount of loans will go WAY down. The universities and degree programs not offering good values for their degree costs will have banks unwilling to loan their students money to attend. Ultimately, the universities will have to reduce the costs back to a level that is commensurate with the value their degrees provide to the students, which will result in the elimination of a lot of useless administrators and shutting down departments and degree programs that can't demonstrate that their degrees are worth what they cost.

---

That's too unreliable. Make the college/universities loan "their" money to the students, payable in monthly increments from the paychecks the graduates earn from the job those degrees prepared them for. That should end the non-engineering,non-business, non-marketable skills bullsh*t degrees in a hurry.

---

I understand the sentiment on this board runs heavily against BA degrees, but I think it's a bit extreme to start and push for any policy that totally eliminates the arts. My history and language degrees have allowed me to contribute quite a bit to society and the protection of our country. Currently, I use them at work training officers and enlisted in our military on how to learn languages and how to interact with peoples and cultures around the world. Formerly I used my knowledge of the middle east and middle eastern languages to help kill terrorists. I'm fairly sure engineers and doctors can't do what I can do, and we've always needed people like me.

For context I took a BA in History and French before moving into Middle Eastern languages for my graduate work and then moving into military applications of my expertise. In your paradigm, I would have never been able to professionalize my skills in college.

ETA, I'm not excited about the existence of gender studies, race studies, etc. degrees, but once you go down the path of destruction of the arts, it's hard to draw the line. Are language degrees good? But music worthless? Who makes that call? I personally love music, it's one of the most beautiful things about the human race, our ability to make music, but yet the free market clearly doesn't value degrees in it. Should that be enough to cut music programs?

---

It is true that there is value in liberal arts classes that are not directly marketable by graduation from such programs. Unfortunately, these programs need to become marketable directly upon graduation. Part of the problem is we have faculty who teach these programs whose only experience is being a former student of the subject. Very few have the opportunity that you have had to use this education as a major skillset in their careers after graduating.
By the way, I recall being required to take a good number of these non-marketable classes as part of a marketable degree plan. Just exactly how many introductory CAD, thermodynamics and other engineering/industrial courses are required by ( or even offered as approved electives) the liberal arts degree plans.

Teslag said:

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Ethics is usually something tossed around by people who lack the ability analyze a situation and work within a given set of rules.


Then are upset they didn't figure out first.

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Wrong, see my example above. We knew she could have declared bankruptcy before our marriage, but we knew it was unethical. We are not alone, there are many people that choose honor and ethics at personal expense.

Ag_of_08 said:

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And as soon as they are dischargeable, the market will IMMEDIATELY correct itself, because no services will touch them. The SL industry collapsing will force university reform, and the market will correct.

To the poster that said it: it doesn't have the same requirements, but it should as a business or investment loan. Make them dischargeable and the will in short order...

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Democrats will NEVER agree to this.

If you make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy, half of the majors in education would disappear. Most liberal arts schools will disappear as well. No one is going to give you a loan to be a worthless liberal arts major.

And who (other than government) will employ the worthless commies other than liberal arts colleges nationwide?

Exactly. The only people who will study the liberal arts are the rich and affluent who can afford to blow money on an education like that. Everyone else will need to pursue careers that are actually worth the investment of taking out a loan. Like it should be.

But it will drop the cost of college as a result.

Look y'all, Teslag has shown multiple times that they don't possess any strong code of ethics. He's just gonna get his, and not really think about any broader implications. They also troll on this board. Thats why salute the marines/salute the vaccines was banned and he's now on his wife's account.

Congrats on using fungible money to get the federal government to underwrite your toys. As a side note this is just a microcosm of the state of our country. We're no longer a country held together by a shared sense of morality and law. America is really only united on being the land of personal enrichment nowadays. Either you're at the pig trough or you getting left behind.

I have a different take. You touched on it in your post - money is fungible. The loans are an entitlement. There is nothing unethical with taking advantage of an entitlement. The fact that the loans can be used for another purpose is entirely predictable, and it can be prevented if the program were structured in another way. But they chose not to structure it in another way, so people are taking advantage of it, in a lawful manner. Since the program allows this, then it is not unethical.

Shagga said:

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I have a different take. You touched on it in your post - money is fungible. The loans are an entitlement. There is nothing unethical with taking advantage of an entitlement. The fact that the loans can be used for another purpose is entirely predictable, and it can be prevented if the program were structured in another way. But they chose not to structure it in another way, so people are taking advantage of it, in a lawful manner. Since the program allows this, then it is not unethical.

---

I agree with you moreso than disagree. I personally don't think SalutetheVaccines did anything strictly illegal. He went through the hoops to get the cash in his account.. And once he had money in his account, its fungible. Now, did he do something immoral? I think so. The spirit of the program is help for student loans as a benefit from your service. Not premediate dropping of ITT Tech classes. And having the military pay for education is a great alignment of economic value for all parties involved. Could they have put more guardrails in the program? Yes. Could society benefit from people behaving more honestly? Also yes.

Having scruples will cost you money. Just how life is.

I chalk this up there with veterans presenting themselves as 100% disability over some very minor issues. Which, ironically, StV has also done. All it takes is just a little lie to yourself and you're harming no one in this sea of government entitlements, spending, and waste.

So Teslag is retired military, works for the corps of engineers. How is zhe affording plaid teslas and tricked out F350's?

Methinks this isn't the only fraudulent activity engaged in...

You left out $4k a month in tax free disability and exempt from property taxes. I had also got a $30k cash lump sum bonus on top the $40k SLRP at the time. I was also deployed in a combat zone when I signed that one so the bonus was tax free as well.

Teslag said:

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You left out $4k a month in tax free disability and exempt from property taxes.

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Disability huh. You get a tiny sliver of shrapnel in your ass like John Kerry?

A shrapnel wound in the ass may be 10% max. And that may just be for the scar. I have 50% just from sleep apnea and another 30% from irritable bowel syndrome.

Sleep apnea? Lolol

I have sleep apnea and my company would laugh at me if I tried to apply for disability.

It's not disabling if you get a CPAP machine. You just have to take a desk jockey job and not be deployed in the field.

Our government and military is broken.