GeorgiAg said:

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But not the Florida Republican who wields the veto pen… https://t.co/kkc2yyqVK0

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) January 23, 2024

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Follow up

This bill was filed on January 5th amidst a crowded primary, including two Florida residents.

My concern was the political weaponization against conservative candidates, and while @JimmyPatronis brought me this bill at a time when all candidates were committing to campaign… https://t.co/wieqYQ8Woq

— Ileana Garcia (@IleanaGarciaUSA) January 23, 2024

FireAg said:

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Dan Scott said:

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FireAg said:

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Honest question…why do you even bother clicking on that crap?

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It's all over my Twitter feed

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Then choose who you follow better…

Or better yet…****can your twitter account…

I don't have one…my life is better for it…

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These are folks close to Trump and have large followings. Poso especially. It's what we have to work with now that Trump is going to be the nominee. These aren't even the bad ones.

I mean I guess you can close your eyes to it. Doesn't bother me but it is doing a great job of pushing away DeSantis supporters and is extremely counterproductive. The idea of public funds for Trump's legal fees was ludicrous and if he was any type of leader he would have shut it down. He is what he is though.

I won't pretend there is massive enthusiasm for Joe Biden, but there is absolutely intense enthusiasm to vote against Trump. The lack of enthusiasm is what beat Hillary in 2016.

2024 comes down to undecided voters and I predict they'll just want Trump to go away. Assuming you don't feel strongly either way about Biden or Trump, I don't see the average person voting for a guaranteed 4 years of non-stop chaos.

Life in the 2020's has already been chaotic as hell, first with COVID and now with the post-COVID economy. More chaos is not what any of us need.

GMaster0 said:

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I won't pretend there is massive enthusiasm for Joe Biden, but there is absolutely intense enthusiasm to vote against Trump.

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Is there though? Or is that just in your biased view of the world? The fact of the matter at the moment is that Trump leads Biden in polling both nationally and in swing states...

Will that hold? No way to tell yet, and most (not all) of the swing state polling is within the MOE...

Watch the trends and it will provide a clearer picture...quite possibly, you're absolutely right on Election Day...but for now, the numbers simply don't match this take...

aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Dan Scott said:

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FireAg said:

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Honest question…why do you even bother clicking on that crap?

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It's all over my Twitter feed

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Then choose who you follow better…

Or better yet…****can your twitter account…

I don't have one…my life is better for it…

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These are folks close to Trump and have large followings. Poso especially. It's what we have to work with now that Trump is going to be the nominee. These aren't even the bad ones.

I mean I guess you can close your eyes to it. Doesn't bother me but it is doing a great job of pushing away DeSantis supporters and is extremely counterproductive. The idea of public funds for Trump's legal fees was ludicrous and if he was any type of leader he would have shut it down. He is what he is though.

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Brother...SO WHAT?

Y'all are your own worst enemy reading that crap, then clicking on it, and then sharing it...you give them exaclty what they want...

Nearly 75 MILLION people voted for Trump in 2020...there are nearly 340M people reported to be living in the US...

Poso has 2.4M followers (and these are people from all over the world, and lord knows how many of them are bots):


Garcia? 6600 followers...


Let's try, gee, I dunno...Taylor Swift? 95M followers:


I swear...some of y'all are quite literally going out of your way to follow social media accounts of people who are going to piss you off, you know they will piss you off, and then you share their garbage so that more people like you will get pissed off...why? Of those three people, the person typing this sentence, who would be thrilled to see a Trump/DeSantis ticket in November, and who would have voted for a viable DeSantis outright, doesn't even know who Garcia or Poso are, until DeSantis folks posted their tweets... Y'all are quite literally your own worst enemies! You are wanting to be outraged and sifting through all of the social media bull**** on this planet and finding those Tweeters who outrage you, and then you run and post their filth in an attempt to prove the theory that "misery loves company"...

Here's an idea...IGNORE them... Ignore the nonsense... It's really not that hard...

Of course, the irony here is that early on, I told the DeSantis militants on here that they were absolutely alienating people who liked DeSantis but got shouted down unless they went and did these same type things...only post the filth from one side of the conversation, and not look at things with a clear vision of reality... And now, as I predicted would happen, the DeSantis campaign crapped out, and all of a sudden, the remnants of the DeSantis Militia are in a tizzy because the "Trumpians" (or whatever you wanna call them...and don't forget to use "sycophant" *drink* somewhere in the post) have turned the tables and doing the same thing that was done to them... Don't you see the irony in that?

The best things some of y'all can do is to take a step back from the computer and the constant social media barage you purposefully subject yourselves to, take a deep breath, and calm down... The vast pleurality of those who will vote this next November are quite literally more likely to be following Taylor Swfit around at Chiefs games than they are to be reading Poso's crap... Stop subjecting yourselves to inflammatory click bait...you're doing EXACLTY what they want you to do...

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Dan Scott said:

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FireAg said:

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Honest question…why do you even bother clicking on that crap?

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It's all over my Twitter feed

---

Then choose who you follow better…

Or better yet…****can your twitter account…

I don't have one…my life is better for it…

---

These are folks close to Trump and have large followings. Poso especially. It's what we have to work with now that Trump is going to be the nominee. These aren't even the bad ones.

I mean I guess you can close your eyes to it. Doesn't bother me but it is doing a great job of pushing away DeSantis supporters and is extremely counterproductive. The idea of public funds for Trump's legal fees was ludicrous and if he was any type of leader he would have shut it down. He is what he is though.

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Brother...SO WHAT?

Y'all are your own worst enemy reading that crap, then clicking on it, and then sharing it...you give them exaclty what they want...

Nearly 75 MILLION people voted for Trump in 2020...there are nearly 340M people reported to be living in the US...

Poso has 2.4M followers (and these are people from all over the world, and lord knows how many of them are bots):


Garcia? 6600 followers...


Let's try, gee, I dunno...Taylor Swift? 95M followers:


I swear...some of y'all are quite literally going out of your way to follow social media accounts of people who are going to piss you off, you know they will piss you off, and then you share their garbage so that more people like you will get pissed off...why? Of those three people, the person typing this sentence, who would be thrilled to see a Trump/DeSantis ticket in November, and who would have voted for a viable DeSantis outright, doesn't even know who Garcia or Poso are, until DeSantis folks posted their tweets... Y'all are quite literally your own worst enemies! You are wanting to be outraged and sifting through all of the social media bull**** on this planet and finding those Tweeters who outrage you, and then you run and post their filth in an attempt to prove the theory that "misery loves company"...

Here's an idea...IGNORE them... Ignore the nonsense... It's really not that hard...

Of course, the irony here is that early on, I told the DeSantis militants on here that they were absolutely alienating people who liked DeSantis but got shouted down unless they went and did these same type things...only post the filth from one side of the conversation, and not look at things with a clear vision of reality... And now, as I predicted would happen, the DeSantis campaign crapped out, and all of a sudden, the remnants of the DeSantis Militia are in a tizzy because the "Trumpians" (or whatever you wanna call them...and don't forget to use "sycophant" *drink* somewhere in the post) have turned the tables and doing the same thing that was done to them... Don't you see the irony in that?

The best things some of y'all can do is to take a step back from the computer and the constant social media barage you purposefully subject yourselves to, take a deep breath, and calm down... The vast pleurality of those who will vote this next November are quite literally more likely to be following Taylor Swfit around at Chiefs games than they are to be reading Poso's crap... Stop subjecting yourselves to inflammatory click bait...you're doing EXACLTY what they want you to do...

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Or... and see if you can follow this... it's more of exactly what the Trump effect is on the Republican party. He is tearing it apart until it only resembles the cult it has become. Stick your head in the sand if you want, but that is what is happening. One of the reasons so many people will vote for anyone but Trump because he makes the environment even more toxic. He is the Tammy to our Ron. It is as much of a problem with us as it is with him.

[We've been very clear that you're free to opine on political candidates as you wish, but when you start making it personal with other posters you're crossing a line. Continue and your bans will increase in length -- Staff]

I posted to laugh at the notion that the far less popular DeSantis influencers were destructive as compared to the Trump influencers.

Is he tearing it apart, or is there a segment of folks within the R party who don't get their way and need someone to blame?

Blame DeSantis for not finding a way to break through and change the narrative...I warned y'all that he was failing before he even got started, but y'all believed so much of the slanted/jaded nonsense on social media that you only wanted to see what you agreed with, and not the reality... But some of you absolutely live your lives via tweets... You allow yourselves to be angered and gripe about every little morsel that comes out that you don't agree with, and you drink the kool aid of every little morsel you do agree with...

But by doing so, you fail to think for yourselves and become incapable of discerning fact from fiction...from "what might happen one day at some point" to "what is actually happening in reality"... I mean, I watched several of you this past year absolutely convince yourself that the only reason Trump the grifting sycophant *drink* *drink* was in the election was to pay his legal bills...to syphon away campagin funds in an amount sufficient enough to pay his lawyers, and then he is dropping out of the race...

In 2020, the man got 75M votes in his favor...the most any R in history has ever gotten... In polling as of today, he is averaging 66.1% of the R vote, and it is climbing (last 3 poll drops have been 70+)...what's Brandon averaging basically unopposed? 70% of the D vote and flat... Yet you want to say with a straight face he is "tearing apart the R party"? Is he really, or is that just your view of it from the seats you sit in?

Trump's candidacy isn't tearing apart the R party...it's upsetting a faction of the party, but it is a statistically small faction where many of those will likely wind up holding their nose and vote for him anyway... A small portion of that faction literally goes out of their way to find things to be angry about...hell, some of y'all sit there and stalk that Truth Social crap just to find things to get angry about, post, and point fingers at saying, "See! Seeeee!!! Orange man and his sycophant *drink* cultists are evil...EEEEEEVIL, I say!!! Look what they posted on a Trump-created social platform that caters to people who like Trump!!!!!"

You're your own worst enemies, my man...some of y'all literally go out of your way to dig up things to be offended about, and then post it in an effort to hopefully gather in others who share your offendedness (is that a word?), in what I can only assume is supposed to be some attempt at an electronic "group hug"... Here's a little nugget about Truth Social...as of July 2023, they had around 600,000 users...and falling...I bet a decent percentage of those are people wanting to use Trump rantings against Trump (meaning they are anti-Trump and actively looking for things to outrage themselves with)...thus the vast majority of folks who are going to vote both for and against Trump, don't give a rat's tookus about it... Twitter you say? Around 330M and falling...so less than 400M people globally... There are approximately 8.1 Billion people walking the plant... So less than 5% of the world follows those platforms... My point? There is an extremely low percentage of folks on those platforms, so their outreach is significantly smaller than you realize, but many of you don't get that because that is the world you choose to live in (and allow yourselves to be either coddled or outraged by)... It is safe to say that an astronimical majority of folks voting for Trump don't care about Truth Social the way many of you in the anti-Trump faction do... Thus, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that a lot of the angst y'all feel from this post or that is more self-fullfilling prpohecy than anything... Messages are desinged to reach the extremes of each side of the argument, and some of y'all have fallen hook, line, and sinker for it... It's also why so many of us don't take "mean tweets" nearly as seriously as some of y'all do...it's meant to catch an eye, grab a headline, start a conversation that literally costs nothing out of pocket to do... But it gets folks talking with just a few keystrokes on a keyboard...And y'all fall for it every time under the false assumption that this morsel or that nugget is "gospel", and the majority of folks who vote for the man "feel exactly the same way" (when the reality is most roll their eyes and just move on)... Seriously, many of you were convinced that, because of DeSantis-led tweet efforts, that DeSantis had 60,000 people pledged to caucus for him in Iowa...many of y'all hung your hopes on that and scoffed and ridiculed the onyl empirical data out there...polling averages...you needed a false narrative to be true, so you ignored and ridiculed anything and everything that rained reality on your wish-casting...

I suggest taking a look at things from the 30,000' level and live a little outside of the trenches...it's a different perspective... Some folks need to learn how to filter out the BS and look for the actual truth...not "facts"...but truth...

Quote:

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In 2020, the man got 75M votes in his favor...the most any R in history has ever gotten... In polling as of today, he is averaging 66.1% of the R vote, and it is climbing (last 3 poll drops have been 70+)...what's Brandon averaging basically unopposed? 70% of the D vote and flat... Yet you want to say with a straight face he is "tearing apart the R party"? Is he really, or is that just your view of it from the seats you sit in?

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Trumpers ignore that he also got more votes AGAINST HIM than any other R in history has ever gotten.

No one is attending Biden rallies. They just see a bunch of foaming-at-the-mouth morons attending a Trump rally and vote for the other guy.

Then you gobble up Trump's lie, "they're cheating!" B.S. Wake up. To win a general election, a political party not only needs the die-hard base, but independents.

one thing Trumpers can't understand is that there are hundreds of thousands of REPUBLICANS who despise Trump not just for his tweets, but for LOSING and LOSING and LOSING.

so since he is going to lose again in 2024, it's time to destroy Trumpism so that the GOP at least has a shot in 2028.

only a Trumper is so narrow minded to believe that opposition to Trump is only about Truth Social and feelings.

then again, they only support and follow Trump because of feelings

so I can understand how it is impossible for them to grasp others actually determine actions based on logic and history and precedent and experience.

I understand your desire to sweep it under the rug and feel like we're still justified in supporting who is left, but this isn't a Desantis supporter viewpoint. This isn't even unique to Trump. This is the toxic part of our current culture that he has embraced since the beginning. This was an issue before he was the frontrunner in 2016. So you can drop the condescending "you just don't understand that it is your emotions of losing" bit.

This is an objection to how we pick who we pick. This is looking for a wife based on Instagram filter level objections.

It's hard to believe there are a substantial number of Republicans who hate Trump enough to give in to another 4 years of Biden who is objectively one of the worst Presidents of all time.

If that's what you think the truth is...so be it...

It's a free country...you're entitled to believe whatever you want...

We will find out whether or not Trump can win come November...I am on record saying that he has to perform in polling averages with a success rate that exceeds margin of error to have a chance...

If he doesn't...I believe he will lost in November... What I don't believe at this moment is that it is a "foregone conclusion" either way... I'm inclined to watch the data to form my opinion...

Phatbob said:

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I understand your desire to sweep it under the rug and feel like we're still justified in supporting who is left, but this isn't a Desantis supporter viewpoint. This isn't even unique to Trump. This is the toxic part of our current culture that he has embraced since the beginning. This was an issue before he was the frontrunner in 2016. So you can drop the condescending "you just don't understand that it is your emotions of losing" bit.

This is an objection to how we pick who we pick. This is looking for a wife based on Instagram filter level objections.

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Sweep what under the rug? I think our present culture is toxic and grotesque...

But that's also why I don't dip into the latest social media nugget drop that is intended to inflame or incite one way or the other...

I do my best to tune out as much noise as possible in my constant quest for the "truth"...

Anyone can claim something is "fact" if enough people buy into it...I prefer filter out a lot of the noise and do my own thinking in search of the "truth"...

It ain't easy, for sure, but I knew the "rah rah DeSantis" stories coming out of Iowa claimed and supported as "fact" simply weren't "true"... Turns out they were even less true than even I thought they would be...

Its probably a big enough faction to keep hom from winning in the general election

Agthatbuilds said:

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Its probably a big enough faction to keep hom from winning in the general election

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Is it?

You might very well be right in the end...

But listen to what I am saying...

As of now, the data simply does not support that outcome...so assuming it is the foregone, absolute outcome is foolish...

Could that be the ultimate outcome? You're damn right it could...I think that is a fair risk...

But right now, polling averages show that Trump outperforms Biden in most swing states, and in the national polling as a whole... If that goes south, then yeah, he's gonna get his ass kicked... It is what it is...


I have also stated many times...swap Biden for someone else (which is absolutely what I would do if I were the Ds), then all bets are off...

I don't have feeds, so there is no need for me to ignore them, but I interact with people who do, and they don't see them as ridiculous. There are reasons why they are called "influencers", and if it didn't work, they wouldn't exist.

If we can't ignore polls, we can't ignore other parts of reality either, and that is part of it.

Phatbob said:

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I don't have feeds, so there is no need for me to ignore them, but I interact with people who do, and they don't see them as ridiculous. There are reasons why they are called "influencers", and if it didn't work, they wouldn't exist.

If we can't ignore polls, we can't ignore other parts of reality either, and that is part of it.

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They are "influencers" because they did their homework to tweet enough stuff, with a certain delivery that appeals to some, to be granted "influencer" status by those who want to be influenced...

My point is that sometimes groupthink allows people to put blinders on and put all of their faith into these "influencers" because they only report/post things with the slant that their followers gravitate toward...

That's my point...people take what they say as "fact" because so many people want to believe it as it's coming from their preffered "influencer"...

They forget that this slant exists, and those "facts" presented (and readily accepted) aren't necessarily the "truth"...

Here's a great example:

The whole world wanted to listen to "influencers" when it came to the Covid jab...remember that?

Take it and all will be cured!

It's totally safe!

All of science agrees that THIS is the way to save humanity!

If you don't take the jab, you deserve to die and you are killing others!


These were the "facts" folks were running with...







Now...what wound up being the "truth"?

I don't know what we're debating anymore on this thread. It's beginning to feel like debate for the sake of debate and very pointless. DeSantis dropped out, it's over.

Staff - for the the benefit of all, please lock this thread. Let's move on!

FireAg said:

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The whole world wanted to listen to "influencers" when it came to the Covid jab...remember that?

Take it and all will be cured!

It's totally safe!

All of science agrees that THIS is the way to save humanity!


These were the "facts" folks were running with...







Now...what wound up being the "truth"?

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That is a great example, and you're making my point for me. You've spent months lamenting Desantis not "grabbing the attention" of the Trump crowd, yet you say we need to ignore the influencers so we can support Trump. But that is how Trump is keeping his base so energized and singular in their support. You can't reject only the parts you don't like but still reward the ones who thrive on it with exactly what they want and expect anything to change.

Just looking at every election since 2018 plus the polling that suggest a large portion of potential Trump voters would not vote for him were he is be convicted

It's just as reasonable to assume he will lose the general as he will win it.

Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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The whole world wanted to listen to "influencers" when it came to the Covid jab...remember that?

Take it and all will be cured!

It's totally safe!

All of science agrees that THIS is the way to save humanity!


These were the "facts" folks were running with...







Now...what wound up being the "truth"?

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That is a great example, and you're making my point for me. You've spent months lamenting Desantis not "grabbing the attention" of the Trump crowd, yet you say we need to ignore the influencers so we can support Trump. But that is how Trump is keeping his base so energized and singular in their support. You can't reject only the parts you don't like but still reward the ones who thrive on it with exactly what they want and expect anything to change.

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No...you're operating under some false assumption that there is some massive gathering of "mouth-frothing" Trump sycophant *drink* cultists chomping at the bit to vote Trump and only Trump and they have some massive network of these "influencers" that are inspiring them to feel this way...

It's simply not true, and it isn't support by anything more than emotion...

Does such a group exist? Sure they do...they exist for every candidate...it's not unique to Trump...

Your mistake is you believe that it is "factually accurate" because that's what your "echo chamber" influencers tell you is real...but the truth is, it isn't... The reality is that it's probably a strict following of folks that is not any larger, percentage wise, than the same type of person who is "only DeSantis" or "only Hillary" etc. Just looking at polling averages, the "truth" seems to be that a wide swath of the R party is voting Trump because they feel like he is a better option than what we have now, plus he has the added advantage of being "the devil we know" (this goes back to my continuing argument that he has the 'virtual incumbent' advantage)... I have a personal theory that a decent amount of casual Trump support (meaning non-mouth-frothing sycophant *drink* cultists) is coming from folks that have buyer's remorse from 2020...because Biden is truly "that bad"...

The problem with the two groups on this thread who have spent a year arguing the merits of "only DeSantis" and "only Trump" are that both groups make the mistake of assuming that the extreme fringes of their chosen candidate's supporters are representative of the mass following...and it's simply not the "truth"...

In reality, a good portion of folks (I hesistate to say majority, but I admit that I think this way) who prefer this candidate or that "can live with and vote for" the alternative... Both followings have their extremes who will scream at the top of their lungs "NEVER WILL I EVER!!!!", but that is a very narrow band of the broad spectrum...

Trump's base of support isn't grounded in the "extremes", no matter how much some of you want to convince yourself to the contrary... The "extremes" are there, but they are not what props him up... He has gained momentum from a wide swath of the R party who falls into the category of "I can live with him", "I just want to get onboard with the winner", "Man that Biden thing was dumb and I see how much better I had it with Trump in hindsight", "I'm sick and tired of Marxists and Progressives, so give me the party who stands against it, I care not who is at the top", etc. You are lamenting a small fraction of his support on the extreme because you have been convinced that these people represent the majority of his support...

Respectfully...that's simply not the "truth"...

Quote:

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Your mistake is you believe that it is "factually accurate" because that's what your "echo chamber" influencers tell you is real...but the truth is, it isn't..

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You keep saying this and I keep telling you I don't have "feeds" to be my echo chamber. It's because I know enough people to see it in action and see that it works on enough people to be a thing. It's enough of an influence to not be insignificant.
No, it being used is not unique to Trump, but what is unique to Trump is the coordination in theme from him. It's not just some crazies on the internet, it's a combined effort, enough that in order to support the man, you HAVE to purposely ignore it because its part of the package, not just ignore the channels that the crazies exist in.

Are people really arguing the jokes, talking points, and even conspiracy theories and that both Trump's team and his influencers spread about DeSantis really weren't discussed ad nauseam both here and in the media?

texagbeliever said:

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Phatbob said:

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Or... and see if you can follow this... it's more of exactly what the Trump effect is on the Republican party. He is tearing it apart until it only resembles the cult it has become. Stick your head in the sand if you want, but that is what is happening. One of the reasons so many people will vote for anyone but Trump because he makes the environment even more toxic. He is the Tammy to our Ron. It is as much of a problem with us as it is with him.

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You do realize you, Aggie93, and many others made the environment more toxic. So you better be willing to blame yourself for the role YOU played in it.

Here are the mistakes you and many of the Diehard DeSantis crew made:
1. You failed to grasp how large and loyal the Trump base was. Talking with yall, I still think yall fail to grasp the MAGA movement all that well. You characterize in this hyper partisan biased way.
2. You ignored data that told you how large and loyal the Trump base was (polls). Then you attacked posters for using polls.
3. You way oversold the impact things would have, but never recalibrated. You thought a great debate was going to move the needle. Or the 2nd one. Or the 3rd one. You thought his media account with pictures and videos were going to go viral even though they had at most 50k views.
4. You started consuming the fringe trump group media. Stuff most Trump supporters don't even see. Then saying look look this is the worst thing ever. As if finding people with stupid and hateful takes is revolutionary to the internet or politics.
5. You never realized that you kind of want things to fail. You are okay with things getting worse. Because you told us they would. Your cynicism is what is holding you back. You want to be depressed more than you want to hope. My prayer is that one day, you will find hope again.

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You know I wish I would have thought about this on my daily calls with the DeSantis campaign for advice. lol News flash for you, my comments here didn't lose the campaign for DeSantis and yours didn't win it for Trump. In fact it is very unlikely either of us shifted any votes that mattered.

This race was primarily about people still liking Trump or even moreso feeling they needed to support Trump because of how he was being persecuted by the Left. The media and a large portion of internet influencers went all in on that. Poso is a minor one but a good example of someone that loved DeSantis and used to give reasoned takes about Trump and now has turned into a mouth breathing Trump fanatic who sees any criticism of Trump as blasphemy, even this stupidity of trying to use taxpayer funds to pay his legal bills. Still in the end the consensus is people still like DeSantis they just would rather him be VP or wait until '28 as they wanted one more trip around the merry go round with Trump. Hell some just like watching him dance to YMCA or like having a guy that says outrageous stuff to keep them entertained. Most people either don't care or have a very weak grasp on actual policy but that's a far more complex societal issue. While DeSantis may have been able to do some things better in the end nothing changed that and certainly nothing said here had any impact at all. He'll be fine longterm.

Ok, here is the the thing. This is an internet discussion forum of a very small group of people that mainly live in Texas. No more than a handful of people that read this even vote in the primaries that matter or the swing states that matter. This is just a place to have conversation and debate but if you actually think anything said here is going to have any real impact on who actually wins elections you are the one that is delusional as is Fire.

I don't get worked up about what is said here, it is simply something that is a fun intellectual exercise. Hell I think I said "We will see" when it came to my thoughts on what might happen in Iowa about 1000 times. Every cycle is different and this one has multiple things that make it unique.

I'm also far from depressed,I am thankful every day for all the blessings I have in my life. Disappointed? Sure, but life goes on. Politics is so far back in the list of things that matter to me in my life behind my relationship with God, my wife and children, and my work it's not even funny. I've long ago accepted my ability to impact any of this is tiny and it simply isn't worth getting worked up about. I find it really weird how some people think they know much of anything about a person based on this forum, they go out of their way to call out posters by name and make judgments about them, and then use that as a reason to justify their position or take a moral high ground. Just let your arguments stand on their merits and realize sometimes you will be right, sometimes you will be wrong, and that this forum isn't real life.

Your guy won. Congrats! Be happy. Continuing to find ways to attack or criticize or diminish DeSantis supporters with valid concerns about Trump though just cracks me up at this point. Many of us will vote for Trump purely because the alternative is demonstrably worse but that doesn't mean we don't recognize Trump for who he is or feel the need to turn a blind eye to it. Some may but as for me I choose to live in reality and not pretend I need to cheer for Trump and ignore his many faults as if by ignoring them they will just go away. The fact you feel the need to constantly come after folks like me instead of either A)Defending why Trump needs taxpayer money to pay his legal bills or B)Why Trump literally pays influencers and hosts them at his house to spew out this nonsense says a lot. Instead you are attacking the people that simply notice it and call them the problem and I guess now think they have Depression. So thanks for your concern but I'm all good.

Phatbob said:

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Quote:

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Your mistake is you believe that it is "factually accurate" because that's what your "echo chamber" influencers tell you is real...but the truth is, it isn't..

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You keep saying this and I keep telling you I don't have "feeds" to be my echo chamber. It's because I know enough people to see it in action and see that it works on enough people to be a thing. It's enough of an influence to not be insignificant.
No, it being used is not unique to Trump, but what is unique to Trump is the coordination in theme from him. It's not just some crazies on the internet, it's a combined effort, enough that in order to support the man, you HAVE to purposely ignore it because its part of the package, not just ignore the channels that the crazies exist in.

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Respectfully, my good man, the "people that you know" are, in fact, part of your echo chamber...

You gravitate toward like-minded folks, and that becomes your personal reality... I'm telling you, there simply aren't millions upon millions of "mouth-frothing sycophant *drink* cultists" falling prey to Trump influencers...

It might feel like that on this little society on TA, but this forum is a very poor representation of the populace at large...

Just look at the actual user numbers for these social media outlets...the vast majority of the overall voting electorate isn't following much of it...

I'll give you an example...many...MANY people who will vote come November fall into my category "I like this about candidate A, and that about candidate B, but at the end of the day, I am voting for the candidate with R next to their name because I feel quite positive that the candidate with a D next to theirs is more apt to destroy the vision for this country that I have in my head"...

Those of us in this category, pretty much tune out all of the social media influencer nonsense...

Enviroag02 said:

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It's hard to believe there are a substantial number of Republicans who hate Trump enough to give in to another 4 years of Biden who is objectively one of the worst Presidents of all time.

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Look at 2020

FireAg said:

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Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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The whole world wanted to listen to "influencers" when it came to the Covid jab...remember that?

Take it and all will be cured!

It's totally safe!

All of science agrees that THIS is the way to save humanity!


These were the "facts" folks were running with...







Now...what wound up being the "truth"?

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That is a great example, and you're making my point for me. You've spent months lamenting Desantis not "grabbing the attention" of the Trump crowd, yet you say we need to ignore the influencers so we can support Trump. But that is how Trump is keeping his base so energized and singular in their support. You can't reject only the parts you don't like but still reward the ones who thrive on it with exactly what they want and expect anything to change.

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No...you're operating under some false assumption that there is some massive gathering of "mouth-frothing" Trump sycophant *drink* cultists chomping at the bit to vote Trump and only Trump and they have some massive network of these "influencers" that are inspiring them to feel this way...

It's simply not true, and it isn't support by anything more than emotion...

Does such a group exist? Sure they do...they exist for every candidate...it's not unique to Trump...

Your mistake is you believe that it is "factually accurate" because that's what your "echo chamber" influencers tell you is real...but the truth is, it isn't... The reality is that it's probably a strict following of folks that is not any larger, percentage wise, than the same type of person who is "only DeSantis" or "only Hillary" etc. Just looking at polling averages, the "truth" seems to be that a wide swath of the R party is voting Trump because they feel like he is a better option than what we have now, plus he has the added advantage of being "the devil we know" (this goes back to my continuing argument that he has the 'virtual incumbent' advantage)... I have a personal theory that a decent amount of casual Trump support (meaning non-mouth-frothing sycophant *drink* cultists) is coming from folks that have buyer's remorse from 2020...because Biden is truly "that bad"...

The problem with the two groups on this thread who have spent a year arguing the merits of "only DeSantis" and "only Trump" are that both groups make the mistake of assuming that the extreme fringes of their chosen candidate's supporters are representative of the mass following...and it's simply not the "truth"...

In reality, a good portion of folks (I hesistate to say majority, but I admit that I think this way) who prefer this candidate or that "can live with and vote for" the alternative... Both followings have their extremes who will scream at the top of their lungs "NEVER WILL I EVER!!!!", but that is a very narrow band of the broad spectrum...

Trump's base of support isn't grounded in the "extremes", no matter how much some of you want to convince yourself to the contrary... The "extremes" are there, but they are not what props him up... He has gained momentum from a wide swath of the R party who falls into the category of "I can live with him", "I just want to get onboard with the winner", "Man that Biden thing was dumb and I see how much better I had it with Trump in hindsight", "I'm sick and tired of Marxists and Progressives, so give me the party who stands against it, I care not who is at the top", etc. You are lamenting a small fraction of his support on the extreme because you have been convinced that these people represent the majority of his support...

Respectfully...that's simply not the "truth"...

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Maybe 10% of the folks in the DeSantis or Trump camp are "Only Trump" or "Only DeSantis". Most are on the spectrum between the 2 with the most common being "I like both and will vote for either but I prefer X vs Y". That's also the most common sentiment among Republicans.

The thing that irritates DeSantis supporters btw isn't that Trump has some crazy followers. DeSantis has some too. The irritating thing is that Trump elevates them and sometimes pays them. He will introduce them at his rallies and encourage people to listen to them and he gives them credibility. It seems the more outrageous they are the more he does it. I'm long past the "outrage" phase with Trump but it is irritating if for no other reason than it is so counterproductive when he does it. Trump is who he is though and there is no changing him, mainly he just isn't a serious person when it comes to policy and just loves to be loved. He's far more celebrity than politician but that's part of the game and there are far worse than him.

TRM said:

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Enviroag02 said:

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It's hard to believe there are a substantial number of Republicans who hate Trump enough to give in to another 4 years of Biden who is objectively one of the worst Presidents of all time.

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Look at 2020

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Sorry TRM, the only acceptable answer is that Trump was cheated not that people didn't want to vote for him.

https://thefederalist.com/2024/01/22/no-there-was-nothing-desantis-could-have-done-to-beat-trump/

Quote:

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Now that Ron DeSantis is no longer a presidential candidate but merely a governor who endorsed Donald Trump, the media are about to misdiagnose his failed bid as a case of bad campaign strategy. Some of the concerns will be real, but to focus on strategy is to miss the forest for the trees. Months of polling trends tell an unmistakable story, and it's more about Trump than DeSantis.
___

As DeSantis entered the race last spring with a surge of momentum, Trump was about to get a mugshot. A month before Trump's first indictment, and three months before DeSantis launched his campaign, the two were separated by about 13 points in RealClearPolitics' polling average. The race really narrowed between DeSantis' impressive reelection in November and the Manhattan grand jury proceedings over Trump in late March. That number actually started to rise just as talk of the indictment rose.

____

Could DeSantis have known this a year ago? By the time he launched, the post-Bragg gap was already widening. He had success and money and support, and voters were open to an alternative. It's easy to second-guess his decision now. Yet with the benefit of hindsight, it's also easy to see the window was closing for reasons that had nothing to do with DeSantis before he even entered the race. He said as much in his departure speech.

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FireAg said:

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Phatbob said:

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Quote:

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Your mistake is you believe that it is "factually accurate" because that's what your "echo chamber" influencers tell you is real...but the truth is, it isn't..

---

You keep saying this and I keep telling you I don't have "feeds" to be my echo chamber. It's because I know enough people to see it in action and see that it works on enough people to be a thing. It's enough of an influence to not be insignificant.
No, it being used is not unique to Trump, but what is unique to Trump is the coordination in theme from him. It's not just some crazies on the internet, it's a combined effort, enough that in order to support the man, you HAVE to purposely ignore it because its part of the package, not just ignore the channels that the crazies exist in.

---

Respectfully, my good man, the "people that you know" are, in fact, part of your echo chamber...

You gravitate toward like-minded folks, and that becomes your personal reality... I'm telling you, there simply aren't millions upon millions of "mouth-frothing sycophant *drink* cultists" falling prey to Trump influencers...

It might feel like that on this little society on TA, but this forum is a very poor representation of the populace at large...

Just look at the actual user numbers for these social media outlets...the vast majority of the overall voting electorate isn't following much of it...

I'll give you an example...many...MANY people who will vote come November fall into my category "I like this about candidate A, and that about candidate B, but at the end of the day, I am voting for the candidate with R next to their name because I feel quite positive that the candidate with a D next to theirs is more apt to destroy the vision for this country that I have in my head"...

Those of us in this category, pretty much tune out all of the social media influencer nonsense...

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I'm sorry, but there are too many examples of the opposite of this. Pence vs Lindsey Graham - Pence is WAY more conservative, but he is a pariah because he didn't thread the needle enough for the apparently nOn-eXisTent Trump cultists. Lindsey Graham has kissed the ring, which means he is still acceptable, not in the "truth", but by the same nOn-eXisTent Trump cultist core.

You might not be falling for it, but there is enough significant effect because it is part of the whole Trump package that it cannot be separated.