OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Ron DeSantis*** thread...

434,619 Views | 9101 Replies | Last: 24 days ago by BD88
FL_Ag1998
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.
Are you implying Trump manipulated DeSantis in some way?


Lord no, didn't mean that at all. DeSantis entered the race all on his own (of course there were plenty of people in his ear, but I don't think Trump was one of them). And Trump certainly didn't manipulate anything other than what all politicians try to manipulate in races...maybe some polls, media coverage, etc. But nothing on the level of what I think you're asking.

Now, could there be valid questions of just what was manipulated in favor of Trump? Sure, of course. I think Ronna had a hand in tilting the Party's playing surface towards Trump. I think the media, all of it regardless of affiliation, tilted in favor of Trump because he's a huuuuge cash cow for them. Nobody, NOBODY, drives ratings for all media like Trump does.

And I think the continued persecution of Trump was done with the partial intent of tilting the Primary race in his favor while (hopefully for the Dems) tilting it away from Trump in the following General race. These days voters vote against candidates. Who does the Left hate more than anyone in the world and would drive Dems to the voting booth in November? Who does the Left paint as the antichrist in an attempt to scare moderate suburban voters into voting Dem? Who would a lot of conservatives rally around if they viewed he was being treated as a whipping boy by the Left?

There is a lot of manipulation going on in this race, and ironically I don't think Trump has to actually do any of it himself.
LeonardSkinner
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

He was was directly asked about it while running for governor, since that was the final arrow in the Democrat quiver, and while he said he was only going to talk about running for governor, nobody intelligent thought he was completely ruling out running for President.
Have you ever met "Florida Man"?

Many do not have what anyone would term as intelligence.

So… since you would have felt betrayed, you would have the same level of intelligence as that proverbial Florida Man? I'd say something about not further denigrating the human gene pool, but…

And yes. I have met many Florida Men and Women, in my 40+ years of living in Florida.
sharpdressedman
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RDS may return to the Governor's job sooner than he desires.

Polls are not votes, although the final Iowa caucus polling percentages were close to the actual voting in that state.

A Suffolk University/NBC10 Boston/Boston Globe tracking poll of 500 likely Republican voters was released this morning, and the results are disappointing for the RDS campaign. It appears that the non-Trump voters are coalescing for Haley.

We'll see if independent and Democrat voters can raid the primary in a number sufficient for her to overtake Trump.

FTA:
The poll results, released Wednesday morning, have Trump at 50%, Haley at 34% and DeSantis with only 5%. Another 3% chose someone else, 6% were undecided and 2% refused to answer.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/trump-solidifies-lead-in-nh-haley-firmly-in-second-new-poll-shows/3249134/
Dan Scott
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NH was never in play for DeSantis especially after Sununu endorsement for Haley.

The play for DeSantis is for Trump to beat Haley in New Hampshire and South Carolina. Haley then drops. Haley drops because DeSantis would be better at getting the Republican vote. Once it's 1-1 and Trump continues making a spectacle of himself in court like today and more polls come out like below that say if convicted, majority of independents and close to 1/3 of Republicans say he'd be unfit for office, R voters will see Trump is too risky going forward and change to DeSantis.

And that's what the key theme will be. If Joe Biden is as bad as we say, worst president ever, why would we nominate such a risky candidate who is likely to be convicted.

YokelRidesAgain
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LMCane said:

is it better for Trump to lose New Hampshire to Haley or better for Haley to lose and be forced out of the race after South Carolina?
If we're going to go through with the intellectual exercise of pretending that DeSantis has some kind of chance to get the nomination, clearly he needs Haley to lose New Hampshire so her money runs out before his does.

If Haley somehow won NH, she would get a great big new infusion of cash from Charles Koch and DeSantis would be dropping out.

In reality, both of them are going to be on life support after Trump wins NH and Nevada. I doubt RDS makes it to South Carolina.
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Dan Scott
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FireAg - Because you're a data guy, how do you interpret 2 recent polls saying about 30% of Republicans find Trump unfit if he is convicted?
SA68AG
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Dan Scott said:

FireAg - Because you're a data guy, how do you interpret 2 recent polls saying about 30% of Republicans find Trump unfit if he is convicted?
Probably about 30% find Trump unfit period.
aggie93
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FireAg said:

My guess is he is the front runner depending on who Trump's VP is and, of course, if Trump and said VP win…

Look…Hillary lost to Obama and then emerged in 8 years as the nominee…

DeSantis could very well be the front runner in 2028…just don't have enough data in my mind to assume that yet…
No doubt 2024 is a whole other thing but my point was the dark language making it sound like this was basically a devastating blow to DeSantis is overblown. It's just Trump looms so large in the GOP right now but he has a very real expiration date and while MAGA is the philosophy realistically it is now HIM. When he is gone I don't know how it translates. I also think he and DeSantis can mend some fences, it makes sense for everyone.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
FireAg
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That's one poll…doesn't reflect the conglomerate on either RCP or 538…

Be careful of looking at single polls…
FireAg
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I'll also add…I have continually said the only way for him to not be the nominee is for him to be prevented from being on the ballot…

If he's on the ballot, he's going to win the nomination…I see no data (and I only look at averages) that suggests he will not be on the primary ballot…

Will they vote for them in the general, well for now, the early indications, in the averages, trend toward "yes, they will..at least against Biden…"

Time will tell, and it will be interesting to see how it unfolds…

I have also said that all bets are off if the Ds swap out Biden…
Dan Scott
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It's more than 1 poll. The Iowa caucus entrance poll said same thing. There was also a poll a few weeks ago with similar numbers.

My fear if in July Rs nominate Trump, then what if he gets convicted. And the wildcard, Dems swerve us and the following month nominate Newsome or Phillips or anybody not Biden. How does Trump win without 30% of republicans?

In a wild scenario, I don't think Trump or Biden get to 270. RFK becomes the compromise candidate
FireAg
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Dan Scott said:

It's more than 1 poll. The Iowa caucus entrance poll said same thing. There was also a poll a few weeks ago with similar numbers.

My fear if in July Rs nominate Trump, then what if he gets convicted. And the wildcard, Dems swerve us and the following month nominate Newsome or Phillips or anybody not Biden. How does Trump win without 30% of republicans?

In a wild scenario, I don't think Trump or Biden get to 270. RFK becomes the compromise candidate

No clue…we are in uncharted waters…

I think there are a lot of ifs and buts, and we won't know until/if they happen…

But it's clear to me right now that the R electorate is going to vote for him at least until he is actually convicted of something…and honestly, I'm kinda thinking he will have enough votes even if "convicted" because most folks seem tot think it's bull**** (and they're right)…
TRM
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TRM
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That's a leftist rag.
Rapier108
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TRM said:

That's a leftist rag.
It is also a favorite site of MAGA. You should see how often it appears on Free Republic as THE go to source for just how horrible Florida is because of DeSantis.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
FireAg
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Haley is closing in on Trump in NH...just under a 13 point lead for Trump at present...starting to think she might have a puncher's chance there...which would be interesting...certainly would give her momentum...
Red Fishing Ag93
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Dan Scott said:

NH was never in play for DeSantis especially after Sununu endorsement for Haley.

The play for DeSantis is for Trump to beat Haley in New Hampshire and South Carolina. Haley then drops. Haley drops because DeSantis would be better at getting the Republican vote. Once it's 1-1 and Trump continues making a spectacle of himself in court like today and more polls come out like below that say if convicted, majority of independents and close to 1/3 of Republicans say he'd be unfit for office, R voters will see Trump is too risky going forward and change to DeSantis.

And that's what the key theme will be. If Joe Biden is as bad as we say, worst president ever, why would we nominate such a risky candidate who is likely to be convicted.


If Trump is convicted, I'll be voting for him twice.
Tibbers
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No it won't. Similar to Ron and Iowa, this is Haley's entire effort. The longer she and Ron stay in, the worse politically tbh.
Rongagin71
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This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
aggie93
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I'll never understand this kind of crap. Candace has been Trump/Vivek all the way and demonized DeSantis at every turn when he is literally the only candidate who cares about accountability for the vaccine besides RFK.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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Rongagin71 said:

This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
I'd still be shocked as hell if DeSantis decided to be VP. Makes a ton of sense for Trump to offer but I don't see him taking it. I think he would literally need an assurance Trump planned to resign or drop out at some point and endorse him. He is just fine going back to Florida and waiting for '28.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
FL_Ag1998
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aggie93 said:

I'll never understand this kind of crap. Candace has been Trump/Vivek all the way and demonized DeSantis at every turn when he is literally the only candidate who cares about accountability for the vaccine besides RFK.






Uhhhh, Owens is fake as **** and bought and paid for. Simple.
GAC06
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She's a political grifter like most of the MAGA mouthpieces
FireAg
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Ima start a TexAgs drinking game for the words "grifter" and "sycophant"...

*drink
Who?mikejones!
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If the shoe fits....
aggie93
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FireAg said:

Ima start a TexAgs drinking game for the words "grifter" and "sycophant"...

*drink
I mean you can but the reality is that most commentary comes from folks that rely on clicks and views or advertising. Financial incentives are just part of life on all sides. When I go back and watch Broadcast News every so often when it comes up it amazes me how much they nailed the change as it was happening in real time, now we have just devolved further and further. You have a very few that truly don't care and say what they want but most are looking at protecting their business every time they speak.

Is that grifting? To an extent, some are certainly more blatant than others. You just have to watch everyone through the lens of where their bread is buttered.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggiehawg
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Quote:

When I go back and watch Broadcast News every so often when it comes up it amazes me how much they nailed the change as it was happening in real time, now we have just devolved further and further.
With Holly Hunter and William Hurt? That was a good movie.

But Network with Faye Dunaway and Bill Holden was better in catching the overall decline in news. And that was years before CNN paid Saddam Hussein to be the only outlet allowed during the Gulf War.

And Peter Finch as Howard Beale

FireAg
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I think it's funny that those have been the bingo words for almost a year…
PA24
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Rongagin71 said:

This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
Wrong

He is a neglecting his job as a governor for an o close cause.

He is bleeding his investors who are banking him.


Ag with kids
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

Phatbob said:

FireAg said:

Final results for Iowa (RCP Average vs. Actual Votes):



In a nutshell, the polling averages missed on DeSantis's performance by ~4 points (both versus Trump and versus Haley)...

I fully admit, I was expecting them to miss by 10-15 points as I truly thought DeSantis's ground game was going to be somewhat effective...

In the end, not being able to win a single county out of 99 counties...frankly...it shocks me...
I honestly thought the result would be better, and I still do not trust polls. I think there is a whole lot of manipulation going on and it's a self fulfilling prophecy, but also we do live in Idiocracy. The "right" is just as human as the left and still loves those dopamine hits of reality TV.

Still going to hold out hope that we aren't "that" stupid... but we didn't get to this point because we're so smart.


While the final winner obviously wasn't impacted by the networks calling the race before people were done voting, I can't see how the margin and results weren't impacted by that. There have been a lot of reports of people who weren't even inside yet but were getting notifications that the race was over.
The media manipulating things?

Nah...they never do that.
FL_Ag1998
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PA24 said:

Rongagin71 said:

This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
Wrong

He is a neglecting his job as a governor for an o close cause.

He is bleeding his investors who are banking him.





He's my Governor and he hasn't neglected ****

And every candidate ever bleeds their investors.

But you are pathetic for continuing to promote b.s. like this.
Ag with kids
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PA24 said:

Rongagin71 said:

This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
Wrong

He is a neglecting his job as a governor for an o close cause.

He is bleeding his investors who are banking him.



As opposed to bleeding donors who are paying for legal bills?
Claverack
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FL_Ag1998 said:

PA24 said:

Rongagin71 said:

This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
Wrong

He is a neglecting his job as a governor for an o close cause.

He is bleeding his investors who are banking him.





He's my Governor and he hasn't neglected ****

And every candidate ever bleeds their investors.

But you are pathetic for continuing to promote b.s. like this.
Best governor Florida has ever had and it is not even close.

Shame he can't run for a third term.



FireAg
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Ag with kids said:

PA24 said:

Rongagin71 said:

This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
Wrong

He is a neglecting his job as a governor for an o close cause.

He is bleeding his investors who are banking him.



As opposed to bleeding donors who are paying for legal bills?

Say the "G" word so I can drink…
Ag with kids
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FireAg said:

Ag with kids said:

PA24 said:

Rongagin71 said:

This has been discussed multiple times.
DeSantis will stay in for as long as DeSantis wants to stay in.
He has no reason to give up unless Trump offers him VP.
Wrong

He is a neglecting his job as a governor for an o close cause.

He is bleeding his investors who are banking him.



As opposed to bleeding donors who are paying for legal bills?

Say the "G" word so I can drink…
I was talking about the bleeding part...

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