Desantis had no way of knowing when he announced that Trump would skip all of the debates, meaning he couldn't take Trump on face-to-face. How much different would things be if that had happened? Maybe it wouldn't have moved the needle one iota...I don't know.

dvldog said:

---

Desantis had no way of knowing when he announced that Trump would skip all of the debates, meaning he couldn't take Trump on face-to-face. How much different would things be if that had happened? Maybe it wouldn't have moved the needle one iota...I don't know.

---

I think a good strategist should have looked at what polling was saying and pointed out that Trump was getting incumbent-level support, and thus it was more likely than not that he would choose not to participate because, as accurately noted on this forum, debating DeSantis et al. had an element of risk (quite possibly high risk) involved that he likely didn't need to take...

dvldog said:

---

Desantis had no way of knowing when he announced that Trump would skip all of the debates, meaning he couldn't take Trump on face-to-face. How much different would things be if that had happened? Maybe it wouldn't have moved the needle one iota...I don't know.

---

Trump was smart to skip it seams.

FireAg said:

---

BG Knocc Out said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I know many of y'all have scoffed and laughed me off for saying it, but I really think he needed to do two things right off the bat:

1. Say something outlandish to grab a headline or two from the get-go (I hear y'all...not his style, etc...but he needed to make some real noise of his own in the echo chamber)... Even if he had to walk it back later, he would have grabbed a little spotlight in the moment...

2. Early on say that one of his first priorities would be to pardon Trump of all wrongdoing in all cases so that the counry could move on from political persecution...

I said those things even before his launch, and though I have no proof it would have helped him, I think it would at least have provided a voice for him in the echo chamber...no way to know if it would have carried him to victory (likely a bridge too far without knowing what his follow ups would have been), but I do think it would have caught eyes and given him a little momentum bump...

---

I wish he had come out firing at Trump a lot earlier than he did. However, I truly believe Trump has two groups of supporters:

1) Diehards, which aren't aren't ever going to love anyone more than they love Trump.

2) The Vengeance voters, who are voting for him because he's under attack by the Left. Many of these people will state in interviews that they like DeSantis but they just "have to vote for Trump because of what the Dems are doing to him."

No amount of headline grabbing by DeSantis would have changed either of those group's votes.

If Trump were to be 100% honest he would acknowledge that the biggest favor the Dems did for his re-election hopes was to continue to attack him after he left office. I mean, its almost like the Dems knew that would rile his base up while also riling up the Dem base. The gamble is the effect its going to have on the middle bloc of voters. That's a big gamble considering its only the fate of our country that hangs in the balance.

---

Very good point. Add that to the fact that the media has done everything in their power to keep Trump front and center and make sure he is the candidate, and it was just too much of an uphill climb for ANYONE. I am not sure Desantis could have done anything that would have made any material difference whatsoever.

---

If that's true, then I think you have to concede that DeSantis ran too soon...it was not the right time to pursue the White House for him...

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

Hell, everyone was in agreement that it was the ideal scenario for Trump to be the magnanimous king-maker (or however you want to phrase it) and pass the torch to the next evolution of "MAGA". But Trump's ego and wallet couldn't pass up another run at POTUS.

And if Haley and Ramaswammy hadn't decided to run for positions in Trump's potential administration then it would be a Trump vs. DeSantis race and look much different.

How about arguing instead that this was the perfect time for Trump to be a true leader of a party and movement by stepping aside and annointing the next generation/evolution? He could even have rightfully claimed to have started this great movement, and sat back waiting for all the adulation to roll in. But Trump screwed that up. Unless of course he's not really in this for the party and MAGA movement. Unless he's simply in this for himself.

This is why DeSantis can't and should't drop out. It's very likely Trump gets convicted and that makes him unelectable. 55% of independents would not and 28% of Republicans wouldn't vote for him.

Would you vote for Donald Trump for president in 2024 if he is/has been...

Convicted of a felony crime by a jury:
Yes 20%
No 58%
.
Currently serving time in prison:
Yes 18%
No 61%

.@Reuters/@Ipsos, 4,677 Adults, 1/3-9 https://t.co/SdusIqYhB5 pic.twitter.com/wUAtf0t07G

— Political Polls (@Politics_Polls) January 17, 2024

Quote:

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

---

Are you implying Trump manipulated DeSantis in some way?

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

BG Knocc Out said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I know many of y'all have scoffed and laughed me off for saying it, but I really think he needed to do two things right off the bat:

1. Say something outlandish to grab a headline or two from the get-go (I hear y'all...not his style, etc...but he needed to make some real noise of his own in the echo chamber)... Even if he had to walk it back later, he would have grabbed a little spotlight in the moment...

2. Early on say that one of his first priorities would be to pardon Trump of all wrongdoing in all cases so that the counry could move on from political persecution...

I said those things even before his launch, and though I have no proof it would have helped him, I think it would at least have provided a voice for him in the echo chamber...no way to know if it would have carried him to victory (likely a bridge too far without knowing what his follow ups would have been), but I do think it would have caught eyes and given him a little momentum bump...

---

I wish he had come out firing at Trump a lot earlier than he did. However, I truly believe Trump has two groups of supporters:

1) Diehards, which aren't aren't ever going to love anyone more than they love Trump.

2) The Vengeance voters, who are voting for him because he's under attack by the Left. Many of these people will state in interviews that they like DeSantis but they just "have to vote for Trump because of what the Dems are doing to him."

No amount of headline grabbing by DeSantis would have changed either of those group's votes.

If Trump were to be 100% honest he would acknowledge that the biggest favor the Dems did for his re-election hopes was to continue to attack him after he left office. I mean, its almost like the Dems knew that would rile his base up while also riling up the Dem base. The gamble is the effect its going to have on the middle bloc of voters. That's a big gamble considering its only the fate of our country that hangs in the balance.

---

Very good point. Add that to the fact that the media has done everything in their power to keep Trump front and center and make sure he is the candidate, and it was just too much of an uphill climb for ANYONE. I am not sure Desantis could have done anything that would have made any material difference whatsoever.

---

If that's true, then I think you have to concede that DeSantis ran too soon...it was not the right time to pursue the White House for him...

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

Hell, everyone was in agreement that it was the ideal scenario for Trump to be the magnanimous king-maker (or however you want to phrase it) and pass the torch to the next evolution of "MAGA". But Trump's ego and wallet couldn't pass up another run at POTUS.

And if Haley and Ramaswammy hadn't decided to run for positions in Trump's potential administration then it would be a Trump vs. DeSantis race and look much different.

How about arguing instead that this was the perfect time for Trump to be a true leader of a party and movement by stepping aside and annointing the next generation/evolution? He could even have rightfully claimed to have started this great movement, and sat back waiting for all the adulation to roll in. But Trump screwed that up. Unless of course he's not really in this for the party and MAGA movement. Unless he's simply in this for himself.

---

I'll take it further.

If Trump plays kingmaker and endorses DeSantis for President, and he wins, then Trump would

A. have the prestige of choosing the President
B. almost certainly be an unofficial cabinet member (he might not even settle for anything less than an official role)
C. probably get to pick the next Florida governor (while the Democrat bench is weak, there's no clear Republican successor)

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

---

Are you implying Trump manipulated DeSantis in some way?

---

I think it's pretty obvious that he was not implying that.

Are you being manipulated by a drunk driver swerving around the road? No, but you're sure not going to get where you want to go.

I'm not sure what all of the back and forth is about regarding primaries, FOX has already called both NH and SC for Trump.

LeonardSkinner said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

---

Are you implying Trump manipulated DeSantis in some way?

---

I think it's pretty obvious that he was not implying that.

Are you being manipulated by a drunk driver swerving around the road? No, but you're sure not going to get where you want to go.

---

I don't understand why DeSantis was in a no-win situation?

FireAg said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

he needed to throw more deep passes against a crowded secondary.

He also did make it clear he would pardon Trump

In the end I don't think either of those would have turned the tide.

He's only 45 and will be fine provided he can finish out positively, not make more enemies, and go back to Florida and keep kicking ass. I think he is going to be the frontrunner in '28 at this point but things can and will continue to evolve.

---

One of his fatal flaws was assuming he was in a field of challengers with no incumbent...as I noted many times, Trump was polling like an incumbent, regardless of not actually being an "incumbent"... So he needed to take some big risks in order to be seen...

I mean, he did finally make it clear he would pardon Trump...but let's not pretend he came out "guns blazing", shouting from the mountaintop, "on day 1, Trump will be pardoned and the poltical persecution ends here so that our country can heal and move forward!"... He had an opportunity to say something like that on [failure to] launch day...that would have stolen a headline...without question... Further, I think there was potential for him to show that he was the man "that could save Trump from the gallows", which would have shown potential weakness for Trump, with the obvious interpretation that Trump needed someone else to save him because Trump couldn't do it by himself...

Turned the tide? Hard to say...I think being bold, brash, and outspoken would have caught more eyes...resulted in winning the nomination? I can't go that far, but I think it would have been enough to get him some momentum and remain competitive, perhaps winning over voters from at least the other "also rans"...it may have even led to a tightly contested convention (maybe even analagous to 1976?), if he played his cards right... I still say to have had any chance, he needed to make a splash, some way...some how...from the beginning...

Up until Monday's vote, I would have agreed whole-heartedly that he would be seen as the likely front runner in 2018...But the trouncing he took on Monday...man...it was historically bad... All of the bravado about visiting 99 counties and commitments from over 60,000 caucus goers, and knocking on over 3,000,000 doors...and then he can't win a single county? Not one? I don't know how I view his political future nationally, to be honest...that was a huge whiff...a bunch of promises and 0% delivery... I even fell victim to it myself thinking that, while polling wouldnt be 30+ points wrong, I was struggling to see how there was such a huge gap in reality...DeSantis had put so much into Iowa, and I felt like the polls were missing a good portion of that effort...really thought he would finish within 15-19 points of Trump, which would have been the largest gap between polling and actuals in Iowa Caucus history, and by quite a bit... But alas, it was abouta 4 point difference, which is far from the record, and pretty much about average for that state's caucuses versus polling... I'm just not ready to make any bold predictions about his political capital moving forward right now...think I am still a little shellshocked at the magnitude of the trouncing...

---

In the end I don't think there was any relatively small tactical move that changes the result. When you hear what Trump folks were saying from the Caucus they were not changing their minds. A lot of "Trump is sent from God" and folks who just love the Celebrity. So many other little things as well, but mainly the path was to make this 1v1 and to chase out Haley and the others as a first step and when she got that Koch money that made the mountain to high to have much of a chance of climbing. Haley drops out Nov 28 instead of getting that money and who knows what happens.

Vivek made the "I support Trump" thing work because he wasn't trying to win. He was trying to raise is profile and likely get a job in the future but not actually be President.

I also think you are greatly exaggerating this loss as being devastating for DeSantis. He still came in second and was over 20%. That's respectable if disappointing. Lots of candidates have come back from far worse including the current WH entrant. Remember Trump couldn't even get the Reform Party nod his first time out either. DeSantis didn't have a Howard Dean moment. He likely won't make Cruz's mistake of failing to endorse Trump at the Convention. He will lick his wounds and come back, there still isn't any obvious alternative for '28 and no one will have his resume. DeSantis also built up a LOT of relationships and friendships in those early primary states. Very few people walked away hating him, in fact many ended up supporting Trump not because he was their choice but because they felt pressured to do so. In the end he is still 45, has a solid base of support, and outstanding record to point to, and high favorables. I mean who else is stronger in '28 as it stands right now?

LeonardSkinner said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

BG Knocc Out said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I know many of y'all have scoffed and laughed me off for saying it, but I really think he needed to do two things right off the bat:

1. Say something outlandish to grab a headline or two from the get-go (I hear y'all...not his style, etc...but he needed to make some real noise of his own in the echo chamber)... Even if he had to walk it back later, he would have grabbed a little spotlight in the moment...

2. Early on say that one of his first priorities would be to pardon Trump of all wrongdoing in all cases so that the counry could move on from political persecution...

I said those things even before his launch, and though I have no proof it would have helped him, I think it would at least have provided a voice for him in the echo chamber...no way to know if it would have carried him to victory (likely a bridge too far without knowing what his follow ups would have been), but I do think it would have caught eyes and given him a little momentum bump...

---

I wish he had come out firing at Trump a lot earlier than he did. However, I truly believe Trump has two groups of supporters:

1) Diehards, which aren't aren't ever going to love anyone more than they love Trump.

2) The Vengeance voters, who are voting for him because he's under attack by the Left. Many of these people will state in interviews that they like DeSantis but they just "have to vote for Trump because of what the Dems are doing to him."

No amount of headline grabbing by DeSantis would have changed either of those group's votes.

If Trump were to be 100% honest he would acknowledge that the biggest favor the Dems did for his re-election hopes was to continue to attack him after he left office. I mean, its almost like the Dems knew that would rile his base up while also riling up the Dem base. The gamble is the effect its going to have on the middle bloc of voters. That's a big gamble considering its only the fate of our country that hangs in the balance.

---

Very good point. Add that to the fact that the media has done everything in their power to keep Trump front and center and make sure he is the candidate, and it was just too much of an uphill climb for ANYONE. I am not sure Desantis could have done anything that would have made any material difference whatsoever.

---

If that's true, then I think you have to concede that DeSantis ran too soon...it was not the right time to pursue the White House for him...

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

Hell, everyone was in agreement that it was the ideal scenario for Trump to be the magnanimous king-maker (or however you want to phrase it) and pass the torch to the next evolution of "MAGA". But Trump's ego and wallet couldn't pass up another run at POTUS.

And if Haley and Ramaswammy hadn't decided to run for positions in Trump's potential administration then it would be a Trump vs. DeSantis race and look much different.

How about arguing instead that this was the perfect time for Trump to be a true leader of a party and movement by stepping aside and annointing the next generation/evolution? He could even have rightfully claimed to have started this great movement, and sat back waiting for all the adulation to roll in. But Trump screwed that up. Unless of course he's not really in this for the party and MAGA movement. Unless he's simply in this for himself.

---

I'll take it further.

If Trump plays kingmaker and endorses DeSantis for President, and he wins, then Trump would

A. have the prestige of choosing the President
B. almost certainly be an unofficial cabinet member (he might not even settle for anything less than an official role)
C. probably get to pick the next Florida governor (while the Democrat bench is weak, there's no clear Republican successor)

---

No doubt that would have been the best case scenario for the Party and the country. Trump and DeSantis working together with DeSantis out front would be nearly impossible for the Dems to beat and they could be focused on building out a deep bench of House, Senate, and Governor candidates as well as building a team that could implement it. Trump could literally have just about anything he wanted. Would have been amazing but it would also have required Trump to take a step back which simply wasn't something he was willing to do. He's more of a selfish egotistical ass than Obama and that's a high bar. People love them both for it though, just not me. I freaking hate politicians that are really just celebrities.

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

BG Knocc Out said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I know many of y'all have scoffed and laughed me off for saying it, but I really think he needed to do two things right off the bat:

1. Say something outlandish to grab a headline or two from the get-go (I hear y'all...not his style, etc...but he needed to make some real noise of his own in the echo chamber)... Even if he had to walk it back later, he would have grabbed a little spotlight in the moment...

2. Early on say that one of his first priorities would be to pardon Trump of all wrongdoing in all cases so that the counry could move on from political persecution...

I said those things even before his launch, and though I have no proof it would have helped him, I think it would at least have provided a voice for him in the echo chamber...no way to know if it would have carried him to victory (likely a bridge too far without knowing what his follow ups would have been), but I do think it would have caught eyes and given him a little momentum bump...

---

I wish he had come out firing at Trump a lot earlier than he did. However, I truly believe Trump has two groups of supporters:

1) Diehards, which aren't aren't ever going to love anyone more than they love Trump.

2) The Vengeance voters, who are voting for him because he's under attack by the Left. Many of these people will state in interviews that they like DeSantis but they just "have to vote for Trump because of what the Dems are doing to him."

No amount of headline grabbing by DeSantis would have changed either of those group's votes.

If Trump were to be 100% honest he would acknowledge that the biggest favor the Dems did for his re-election hopes was to continue to attack him after he left office. I mean, its almost like the Dems knew that would rile his base up while also riling up the Dem base. The gamble is the effect its going to have on the middle bloc of voters. That's a big gamble considering its only the fate of our country that hangs in the balance.

---

Very good point. Add that to the fact that the media has done everything in their power to keep Trump front and center and make sure he is the candidate, and it was just too much of an uphill climb for ANYONE. I am not sure Desantis could have done anything that would have made any material difference whatsoever.

---

If that's true, then I think you have to concede that DeSantis ran too soon...it was not the right time to pursue the White House for him...

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

Hell, everyone was in agreement that it was the ideal scenario for Trump to be the magnanimous king-maker (or however you want to phrase it) and pass the torch to the next evolution of "MAGA". But Trump's ego and wallet couldn't pass up another run at POTUS.

And if Haley and Ramaswammy hadn't decided to run for positions in Trump's potential administration then it would be a Trump vs. DeSantis race and look much different.

How about arguing instead that this was the perfect time for Trump to be a true leader of a party and movement by stepping aside and annointing the next generation/evolution? He could even have rightfully claimed to have started this great movement, and sat back waiting for all the adulation to roll in. But Trump screwed that up. Unless of course he's not really in this for the party and MAGA movement. Unless he's simply in this for himself.

---

With all due respect, this is revisionist history, and here's why…

DeSantis never had a polling lead while Trump was a declared candidate, and DeSantis declared in May of 2023…WELL after Trump, so DeSantis knew he was facing an huge hill to climb on the day he declared, down 33+ in the RCP average…so I'm not sure how Trump declaring (November 2022) well before DeSantis hurt DeSantis after the fact, when DeSantis declared…if that's the case, and DeSantis didn't think he could make up that many points, then why enter in the first place down by so much? So saying he was in a "no-win" situation…well…he should have seen the numbers on the day he declared and KNOWN it was nearly impossible facing a huge gap between him and Trump…. So you can say "remove Trump for the equation", but the fact is, Trump declared and DeSantis waited, so Trump was already in the equation before DeSantis made his decision…

Further, you can't blame Haley and Ramaswamy for stealing votes from DeSantis, and why? Because they both launched their campaigns back in February…while DeSantis was starting a book tour…

The blame ALL falls on DeSantis…he waited…he behind by more than 30 points when he FINALLY entered, and he was never able to recover…

That's on DeSantis…

Your argument would have more merit if he declared first…but he was literally LAST to the party for those real contenders in Iowa, and then spent a huge chunk of time and resources trying to win Iowa…

His strategy backfired in a very public and epic way…

If you truly believe "his prime time was now", then why was he LAST to the party?

That's the reality…no history revision necessary…

Are you trying to say that someone's "time" is related to when they enter a race?

Speaking of revisionist history. Florida had a resign to run law. The fla legislature had to pass a new law and desantis couldn't declare until may 24th. So, he signed the law that day and had his Twitter episode that night.

So, pray tell, how does desantis enter the race before the law is passed? Guess he was the only working person to enter while Trump, vivek, and Haley were sitting on there asses.

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Are you trying to say that someone's "time" is related to when they enter a race?

Speaking of revisionist history. Florida had a resign to run law. The fla legislature had to pass a new law and desantis couldn't declare until may 24th. So, he signed the law that day and had his Twitter episode that night.

So, pray tell, how does desantis enter the race before the law is passed? Guess he was the only working person to enter while Trump, vivek, and Haley were sitting on there asses.

---

Well, pray tell…perhaps he works with R legislators to change the law sooner? Or perhaps, pray tell…he looks at the numbers and the task is too daunting and thus declines to enter for the 2024 contest? He had the option to not enter…he chose to enter, and the timing and his strategy all appear to have backfired…

If he had the lead and then others entered, then one could claim that those entrants brought him down…but when he's already down 30+ at the time of entry, and does nothing to close the gap, then that's on him…

Do you know how legislation is made? It ain't fast.

Regardless, Ron had a job that didn't allow his entry until a new law was passed and signed. His timing was impacted by that.


Secondly, do you know ow what a book tour is, specifically for someone like Ron DeSantis? It's a campaign tour.

Now was the time for Ron to run, despite the rather flimsy argument you made.

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Are you trying to say that someone's "time" is related to when they enter a race?

Speaking of revisionist history. Florida had a resign to run law. The fla legislature had to pass a new law and desantis couldn't declare until may 24th. So, he signed the law that day and had his Twitter episode that night.

So, pray tell, how does desantis enter the race before the law is passed? Guess he was the only working person to enter while Trump, vivek, and Haley were sitting on there asses.

---

Had forgotten about that. Was changing that law something he ran on in the gubernatorial campaign?

I'm notnsure about that.

It was a part of a larger election law. Of course Trump cried about it

Ron is losing to the undecided vote in N.H.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/01/17/nolte-trump-tops-haley-16-nh-desantis-losing-to-undecided/

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Do you know how legislation is made? It ain't fast.

Regardless, Ron had a job that didn't allow his entry until a new law was passed and signed. His timing was impacted by that.


Secondly, do you know ow what a book tour is, specifically for someone like Ron DeSantis? It's a campaign tour.

Now was the time for Ron to run, despite the rather flimsy argument you made.

---

Oh okay, well then his "book tour" sucked because he was still more than 30 points down, after the book tour, when he entered…so his "book tour" could have been used as a litmus test, and if it had been, perhaps he sees then that his message, delivery, or both, aren't ready to compete…

THE NUMBERS WERE THERE…THEY WERE IGNORED…by both DeSantis, along with his closest followers (apparently…it was clear on this thread that the numbers were ignored for sure)…

Ron's done. You should change to haley.

I agree the numbers were not good. But, I'm sure he thought they'd change when he was officially in, and I'm sure he was counseled to such. That's not a reason to not enter a race, despite your opinion of it being an uphill fight

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I agree the numbers were not good. But, I'm sure he thought they'd change when he was officially in, and I'm sure he was counseled to such. That's not a reason to not enter a race, despite your opinion of it being an uphill fight

---

Fair enough…then either his counselors sucked or his strategists advising him on how to turn it around sucked…but again, that all falls on DeSantis..

You wanna win? Have a better strategy than everyone else…

And if you can't come up with one, then by definition, "now is NOT your time"…

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I'm notnsure about that.

It was a part of a larger election law. Of course Trump cried about it

---

Pardon my take but unless DeSantis was telling his voters that he didn't intend to serve his entire term, that would have pissed me off were I a Florida voter.

PA24 said:

---

Ron is losing to the undecided vote in N.H.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/01/17/nolte-trump-tops-haley-16-nh-desantis-losing-to-undecided/

---

Congrats.

He was only a conservative ally that could be instrumental in shaping future legislation. I doubt Trump would ever need that.

FireAg said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

BG Knocc Out said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I know many of y'all have scoffed and laughed me off for saying it, but I really think he needed to do two things right off the bat:

1. Say something outlandish to grab a headline or two from the get-go (I hear y'all...not his style, etc...but he needed to make some real noise of his own in the echo chamber)... Even if he had to walk it back later, he would have grabbed a little spotlight in the moment...

2. Early on say that one of his first priorities would be to pardon Trump of all wrongdoing in all cases so that the counry could move on from political persecution...

I said those things even before his launch, and though I have no proof it would have helped him, I think it would at least have provided a voice for him in the echo chamber...no way to know if it would have carried him to victory (likely a bridge too far without knowing what his follow ups would have been), but I do think it would have caught eyes and given him a little momentum bump...

---

I wish he had come out firing at Trump a lot earlier than he did. However, I truly believe Trump has two groups of supporters:

1) Diehards, which aren't aren't ever going to love anyone more than they love Trump.

2) The Vengeance voters, who are voting for him because he's under attack by the Left. Many of these people will state in interviews that they like DeSantis but they just "have to vote for Trump because of what the Dems are doing to him."

No amount of headline grabbing by DeSantis would have changed either of those group's votes.

If Trump were to be 100% honest he would acknowledge that the biggest favor the Dems did for his re-election hopes was to continue to attack him after he left office. I mean, its almost like the Dems knew that would rile his base up while also riling up the Dem base. The gamble is the effect its going to have on the middle bloc of voters. That's a big gamble considering its only the fate of our country that hangs in the balance.

---

Very good point. Add that to the fact that the media has done everything in their power to keep Trump front and center and make sure he is the candidate, and it was just too much of an uphill climb for ANYONE. I am not sure Desantis could have done anything that would have made any material difference whatsoever.

---

If that's true, then I think you have to concede that DeSantis ran too soon...it was not the right time to pursue the White House for him...

---

He was almost in a no-win situation and was put there by Trump. Remove the Trump-effect from this Primary and DeSantis was running at the perfect time based off what he had accomplished, the mood of the country, and the momentum he had gained as governor. His term as Gov will end two years before 2028. His prime time was now, despite what you want to argue.

Hell, everyone was in agreement that it was the ideal scenario for Trump to be the magnanimous king-maker (or however you want to phrase it) and pass the torch to the next evolution of "MAGA". But Trump's ego and wallet couldn't pass up another run at POTUS.

And if Haley and Ramaswammy hadn't decided to run for positions in Trump's potential administration then it would be a Trump vs. DeSantis race and look much different.

How about arguing instead that this was the perfect time for Trump to be a true leader of a party and movement by stepping aside and annointing the next generation/evolution? He could even have rightfully claimed to have started this great movement, and sat back waiting for all the adulation to roll in. But Trump screwed that up. Unless of course he's not really in this for the party and MAGA movement. Unless he's simply in this for himself.

---

With all due respect, this is revisionist history, and here's why…

DeSantis never had a polling lead while Trump was a declared candidate, and DeSantis declared in May of 2023…WELL after Trump, so DeSantis knew he was facing an huge hill to climb on the day he declared, down 33+ in the RCP average…so I'm not sure how Trump declaring (November 2022) well before DeSantis hurt DeSantis after the fact, when DeSantis declared…if that's the case, and DeSantis didn't think he could make up that many points, then why enter in the first place down by so much? So saying he was in a "no-win" situation…well…he should have seen the numbers on the day he declared and KNOWN it was nearly impossible facing a huge gap between him and Trump…. So you can say "remove Trump for the equation", but the fact is, Trump declared and DeSantis waited, so Trump was already in the equation before DeSantis made his decision…

Further, you can't blame Haley and Ramaswamy for stealing votes from DeSantis, and why? Because they both launched their campaigns back in February…while DeSantis was starting a book tour…

The blame ALL falls on DeSantis…he waited…he behind by more than 30 points when he FINALLY entered, and he was never able to recover…

That's on DeSantis…

Your argument would have more merit if he declared first…but he was literally LAST to the party for those real contenders in Iowa, and then spent a huge chunk of time and resources trying to win Iowa…

His strategy backfired in a very public and epic way…

If you truly believe "his prime time was now", then why was he LAST to the party?

That's the reality…no history revision necessary…

---

That's being WAY too dramatic. To most people he ran into a buzzsaw with Trump like everyone else and he may have lost but he also had some good moments and is leaving with high favorables. He still gets to go back to Florida and keep kicking ass there and no doubt has learned a lot from the experience.

Once again, who else if the frontrunner for '28 if not him as of now? Trump may be dead in 4 years but he is definitely done in politics. When you think about that question honestly I think it shifts the calculus quite a bit.

Haley? Only if she is the VP and takes over as President. I just don't know how you win when at least half of the GOP hates you.

Vivek? Opposite problem. Lots of MAGA folks love him and a few others but the other half hates him and he still has no real experience. Will depend on what he does the next 4 years.

Of the other Governors (Reynolds, Kemp, Youngkin, Abbott) I don't see any of them beating out DeSantis because they all look small compared to him and he's just stronger all around. Maybe Sanders? Noem? Interesting but not on his level either.

Cruz? Maybe, still think DeSantis starts out stronger.

Don Jr? Lol. Kari Lake? Double lol.

By no means does this mean that DeSantis is going to be the guy in '28 but I don't know who else is better set up as of the moment.

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Ron's done. You should change to haley.

---

Next stop, Haley. and then next stop?

aggiehawg said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I'm notnsure about that.

It was a part of a larger election law. Of course Trump cried about it

---

Pardon my take but unless DeSantis was telling his voters that he didn't intend to serve his entire term, that would have pissed me off were I a Florida voter.

---

I understand that opinion. However, i allso understand that many flordians probably would support an option for him ot any fla gov to run for president

Agthatbuilds said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I'm notnsure about that.

It was a part of a larger election law. Of course Trump cried about it

---

Pardon my take but unless DeSantis was telling his voters that he didn't intend to serve his entire term, that would have pissed me off were I a Florida voter.

---

I understand that opinion. However, i allso understand that many flordians probably would support an option for him ot any fla gov to run for president

---

Why was that law mandating the governor had to resign in order to run passed? And when?

Tarponfly said:

---

I just cannot believe this country will have to chose between Trump and Biden. What a dramatic failure of the American experiment.

---

Agreed, would rather have seen Vivek or Haley at the top.

Relatively new, it appears

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/260196-resign-to-run-bill-signed-into-law/

Quote:

---

Local and state office holders in Florida will have to resign from their seats to run for a federal office that overlaps with their current term, under a bill signed by Gov. Rick Scott.

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I'm notnsure about that.

It was a part of a larger election law. Of course Trump cried about it

---

Pardon my take but unless DeSantis was telling his voters that he didn't intend to serve his entire term, that would have pissed me off were I a Florida voter.

---

I understand that opinion. However, i allso understand that many flordians probably would support an option for him ot any fla gov to run for president

---

The number of Florida voters who feel as hawg suggests would fit in my classroom; and probably would fit in with the denizens thereof. He was was directly asked about it while running for governor, since that was the final arrow in the Democrat quiver, and while he said he was only going to talk about running for governor, nobody intelligent thought he was completely ruling out running for President.

Quote:

---

He was was directly asked about it while running for governor, since that was the final arrow in the Democrat quiver, and while he said he was only going to talk about running for governor, nobody intelligent thought he was completely ruling out running for President.

---

Have you ever met "Florida Man"?

Many do not have what anyone would term as intelligence.

My guess is he is the front runner depending on who Trump's VP is and, of course, if Trump and said VP win…

Look…Hillary lost to Obama and then emerged in 8 years as the nominee…

DeSantis could very well be the front runner in 2028…just don't have enough data in my mind to assume that yet…