Quote:

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DeSantis is a very hard guy to make into a villain.

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Not that Disney didn't give it the good ol' college try. That was enough to get my attention to follow that saga. DeSantis won those rounds, IMO.

FireAg said:

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I agree that DeSantis would probably be wise to steer clear of a Trump ticket invite, just as much as I think it would be wise for Trump to steer clear of issuing said invite...

Lick your wounds, learn from the experience, and continue to kick ass in FL in order to come back stronger in the next cycle (or even as a running mate with Haley as that would be just about as broad of a net as anyone could cast from the R side with regard to trying to get folks to flock to the ticket with their votes)...

If Trump wins the nomination, and loses the general, then I think RD goes and tries to pull a Ronald Reagan 1976/1980 part deux in 2028...and I have a hunch he would be successful in that scenario...

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Realize that Reagan was actually made famous for "A Time for Choosing" in 1964 when he was 53, that speech is what launched the modern conservative movement. He didn't even try to run for President until '76 and then was elected in '80. DeSantis has plenty of time in his career. The only problem is what country will be left by the time we give him a chance. Think how different the world would have been had we not elected LBJ in 1964 and how much damage he did (Vietnam, Great Society, rise of the Administrative State, on and on....)

I'd rather just skip past that much more pain, the last few years have been hard enough.

aggie93 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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aggiehawg said:

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FireAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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At a minimum, I don't see how she isn't at least a strong VP contender...

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That still rates as an, "Ugh," from me.

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Oh, I hear you...will not argue that point...

It has fallen on a multitude of deaf ears on this forum, but I have been trying to look at this whole thing with as little emotion and bias as possible...

I think the candidate that best aligns with what I want for this country is DeSantis...I just don't think he is going to make it in 2024...

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Assuming both of our gut instincts are born out, still would prefer Trump and DeSantis bury the hatchet and DeSantis joins the ticket. The question I would have is if that would be political kryptonite for DeSantis?

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How well does DeSantis do with women? I think that is the goal of Trump in 2024, how can he effectively make inroads with that voting group without sacrificing the male vote.

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DeSantis has done very well with women, especially Suburban women. His only detractors are around abortion. Otherwise they like how he is a younger and good looking guy with a pretty wife and cute family that he clearly adores. He's the type of husband a lot of women would love to have.

He also explains his position on abortion well, it's just if he is given the chance to speak about it. If he is the nominee he will get that chance but otherwise his opponents and the media are trying to fix that narrative without him. For instance last night during the Town Hall the moderator brought up about arresting women involved in abortions and he shot that down clearly and effectively. He spoke with empathy about women who are pregnant and the difficult choices they have to make. Then he talked about how the country was founded on protecting "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" and the first of those is Life. He said if you have a detectable heartbeat that is a life and it deserves protection. That won't win over everyone of course but it's a very solid answer that would make many of those women comfortable. There are also a lot of women who hate the culture of abortion who love him.

DeSantis is a very hard guy to make into a villain. You can make fun of him of course or find a position you don't like or something he said or did. Still you have to work really hard to make him look evil, you can't really even quote him you have to use a picture of him and paraphrase or just make something up but of course you can do that to anyone.

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I agree with this. I think DeSantis' base is more balanced male-female. In the context of running mate (not if he would accept it or not), I think his appeal is that he is a strong male leader of good value which might be stunted as a VP. I'm saying his appeal will to women will be mitigated if he isn't the head of the ticket. This is just speculative take of course, but why I have changed my mind to seeing DeSantis as the VP choice. It could happen, this is a very complex issue and I could be missing aspects. None of this is a slight to DeSantis but just looking at his relative utility as VP vs President/Governor.

Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

aggiehawg said:

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FireAg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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At a minimum, I don't see how she isn't at least a strong VP contender...

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That still rates as an, "Ugh," from me.

---

Oh, I hear you...will not argue that point...

It has fallen on a multitude of deaf ears on this forum, but I have been trying to look at this whole thing with as little emotion and bias as possible...

I think the candidate that best aligns with what I want for this country is DeSantis...I just don't think he is going to make it in 2024...

---

Assuming both of our gut instincts are born out, still would prefer Trump and DeSantis bury the hatchet and DeSantis joins the ticket. The question I would have is if that would be political kryptonite for DeSantis?

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I think if DeSantis felt he could trust Trump that would be possible but unfortunately he cannot. DeSantis is the obvious "Next Step" for those who truly believed in the MAGA movement. Trump was the Bull in a China Shop, DeSantis is the one to come in after and rebuild. Trump felt threatened by DeSantis though and went completely nuclear on him and he of course has a history of destroying and tarring people that work for him.

Ironically if DeSantis was more of a pure politician I think it would be more likely. He's that rare guy though that really wants to fix the country and government and the political process is just what you have to do to get the job. In a different world he would be a truly incredible Prime Minister if we had a Parliamentary government where the King is the Pomp and Circumstance with no real power and the PM actually runs the country and deals with the tough questions.

texagbeliever said:

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I think DeSantis' base is more balanced male-female. In the context of running mate (not if he would accept it or not), I think his appeal is that he is a strong male leader of good value which might be stunted as a VP. I'm saying his appeal will to women will be mitigated if he isn't the head of the ticket. This is just speculative take of course, but why I have changed my mind to seeing DeSantis as the VP choice. It could happen, this is a very complex issue and I could be missing aspects. None of this is a slight to DeSantis but just looking at his relative utility as VP vs President/Governor.

---

This is where I am at as well...for the longest time I thought Trump would be a fool to not at least have DeSantis as the VP...and heir-apparent, if you will...

Now? I think both DeSantis and Trump would be best served politically to avoid such a union...

FireAg said:

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Given any other person, the electorate for the R primary simply doesn't give a **** either way, bud...you need to accept that while you care, AJRV doesn't even acknowledge it...

I respect your personal convictions, but the electorate simply could not care less...

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Dude, I don't know how many times I have to say it... I also don't care.

Communication is a 2-way street, so if I failed to communicate this, my bad, but I don't think I am totally the problem here.

At least half of my problems with Trump have to do with us, not him. We lose all objective logic when it comes to him like some toxic relationship. My point had nothing to do with why Melania wasn't in the photo. It had to do with the reactions some people had to it. We are willing to drop any sort of reasonable take because it might differ from the man. People are tribal, it is just how we are, but we are better off being tribal about ideas, and instead we are tribal about one particular man... and that is freaking bad, and it is cultish behavior.

FireAg said:

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Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

Cruz also didn't endorse Trump in '16 and he hasn't endorsed in this cycle yet. Trump is having Daines and Graham exert tremendous pressure on everyone in the Senate to endorse Trump.

Trump did pick up Barasso though as he fills out his Senate Establishment treasure chest of endorsements, all that is left is Thune and of course McConnell.

Salvatore “Sammy the Bull” Gravano talks about how the #mafia and city unions tried to get to #Trump and pressure him into “the club”, but that Trump was infallible - and they were never able to get close to him as he was always surrounded by former FBI agents.

interesting about… pic.twitter.com/MTddxSxA3K

— The Rubber Duck ™ (@TheRubberDuck79) January 10, 2024

Trump stayed away from the Mafia and their controlled unions.

aggie93 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Yet the posters on this thread who used Melania's absence from a Christmas picture as evidence that she and Trump were separated and scoffed that her mother was seriously ill as the real reason for her abence won't acknowledge their <ahem> "error."

---

It's tragic that Melania's mother died. It is also true that Donald has rarely been in the same city or been photographed with his wife for over a year. As I said losing a parent sucks and I feel for Melania and their family. It is very hard to determine fact from fiction with Donald Trump, I have no issues with Melania and hope she finds peace and her mother passed in as much comfort as possible.

---

Interesting fact.

Melania's mom was 78 when she passed away.

Trump is 77.

Sorry to hear about her mother...it sucks losing a mom. It's been almost 10 years since I lost mine.

FireAg said:

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Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

LMCane said:

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𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐰𝐡𝐲 𝐈’𝐦 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐬𝐮𝐩𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐓𝐫𝐮𝐦𝐩 𝐚𝐠𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐦𝐚𝐫𝐲. 𝐈 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐯𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐃𝐞𝐒𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐬. #DeSantis2024 https://t.co/MlnX1b4FMu

— NONBidenary (@KellyLMcCarty) January 10, 2024

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This makes the Documentary vid I posted that much more relevant.

I don't think Trump loves big Pharma as much as he doesn't do his homework and he is easily swayed. The magic formula is having an "expert" that he can use as cover and of course the political donations.

I rarely watch regular TV anymore except for football and it is just mind boggling how much of the advertising is drugs. Drugs for absolutely everything. Drug companies also are almost always the big sponsors for shows. Unfortunately that beast has grown so big now I don't know that it can be put back in a box. So many networks would be devastated financially without that Pharma advertising revenue.

If you think it is a coincidence that we have yet to have any questions around Covid or vaccines during the GOP debates btw i don't know what to tell you. I don't know who is more terrified of that conversation, the networks or Pharma as they are completely codependent on each other. I think the fact DeSantis is the only candidate who is openly a threat to Big Pharma is telling when you look at that. Trump certainly isn't. Haley certainly isn't. Vivek is a Billionaire because of it.

UAS Ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Yet the posters on this thread who used Melania's absence from a Christmas picture as evidence that she and Trump were separated and scoffed that her mother was seriously ill as the real reason for her abence won't acknowledge their <ahem> "error."

---

It's tragic that Melania's mother died. It is also true that Donald has rarely been in the same city or been photographed with his wife for over a year. As I said losing a parent sucks and I feel for Melania and their family. It is very hard to determine fact from fiction with Donald Trump, I have no issues with Melania and hope she finds peace and her mother passed in as much comfort as possible.

---

Interesting fact.

Melania's mom was 78 when she passed away.

Trump is 77.

Sorry to hear about her mother...it sucks losing a mom. It's been almost 10 years since I lost mine.

---

Trump has one living sister and his other 3 siblings have sadly died of natural causes, one sister just last year. Time is undefeated. The odds of Trump living in good health for another 5 years are probably less than 50/50 no matter how many good doctors he has around him.

3 Million Doors and almost a million in Iowa. All targeted and making sure to focus on Undecideds and getting your solid supporters out.

This is one of the reasons the polls make no sense and I am a skeptic. There has never been a campaign with this level of personal outreach that didn't draw support.

First Lady @CaseyDeSantis knocks on the 3 millionth door in snowy Iowa! pic.twitter.com/gKBEyix74A

— Never Back Down (@NvrBackDown24) January 10, 2024

aggie93 said:

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3 Million Doors and almost a million in Iowa. All targeted and making sure to focus on Undecideds and getting your solid supporters out.

This is one of the reasons the polls make no sense and I am a skeptic. There has never been a campaign with this level of personal outreach that didn't draw support.

First Lady @CaseyDeSantis knocks on the 3 millionth door in snowy Iowa! pic.twitter.com/gKBEyix74A

— Never Back Down (@NvrBackDown24) January 10, 2024

---

"She could have used the doorbell, but the magnets got wet. Sad! My door bell doesn't use magnets. Only the best, for me and Alina....I mean Ivanka...I mean Melania. Where'd I put my keys?" TRUMP, probably.

Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

---

Agreed. The wife faking cancer thing was also only brought up as a part of the conversation around whether DeSantis would be the VP, not if it would impact the decision of the average voter. Trump being an ******* is already baked in to anyone who is currently supporting him. They may not know specifics like that, but they are generally aware he's a ****ty person and they don't care.

The point was that in a normal campaign, it would be possible if not likely that DeSantis would be interested in being the VP. Trump has basically made that impossible by his general unprofessional demeanor and constant personal attacks. It's nowhere close to "politics as usual", and will thankfully be gone once Trump is gone.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

---

Agreed. The wife faking cancer thing was also only brought up as a part of the conversation around whether DeSantis would be the VP, not if it would impact the decision of the average voter. Trump being an ******* is already baked in to anyone who is currently supporting him. They may not know specifics like that, but they are generally aware he's a ****ty person and they don't care.

The point was that in a normal campaign, it would be possible if not likely that DeSantis would be interested in being the VP. Trump has basically made that impossible by his general unprofessional demeanor and constant personal attacks. It's nowhere close to "politics as usual", and will thankfully be gone once Trump is gone.

---

I don't think it is the personal attacks so much as the track record. If DeSantis becomes VP he must be 100% loyal to Trump and not oppose him in any way. He also can be popular but not too popular. Trump will not tolerate another Alpha as his VP, that was why Pence worked well because he just stayed quiet in the background and did whatever Trump told him to.

That just isn't DeSantis' style. He's very engaged and he likes to be in charge. He has very deep held personal convictions and I think some of Trump's behaviors are going to be difficult for him to defend because he doesn't like to lie. He also knows that no matter how much he bends the knee it won't be enough and to some if he becomes VP it will mean he is selling out. The personal stuff is more about how it would be treated, for instance Cruz has had the "How can you support a man who insulted your wife?" stigma that is very hard to overcome. It makes you look weak and defeated any way you slice it and that's hard to overcome.

That's one of the most frustrating things about Trump. He makes it very hard for people to mend fences with him and not look humiliated.

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

Quote:

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

I say the House suspends the rules on decorum and collegiality and just let them duke it out like in Parliamentary systems.

My money is on MTG delivering a few azzkickings.

TTUArmy said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

At this point, we have 1 datapoint on that, and it is completely muddled by the fact that it is Trump. He is such a unique entity, with both positives and negatives that feed into that, I have a hard time saying it applies to everyone. What has made an impression on me was his complete inability to fight it off and still be effective. Given his track record on anything that wasn't "fought by the deep state", I don't think it is as big of a problem as you do. Will it be an issue for any R candidate? Yes, obviously. Is it as big of a problem with anyone that doesn't have Trump's history of incompetency in governance? Probably not.

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

I say the House suspends the rules on decorum and collegiality and just let them duke it out like in Parliamentary systems.

My money is on MTG delivering a few azzkickings.

---

"A few?!"

I've seen her workout videos. She'd be the last person standing, if not, for sure the last female.

No Spin Ag said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

I say the House suspends the rules on decorum and collegiality and just let them duke it out like in Parliamentary systems.

My money is on MTG delivering a few azzkickings.

---

"A few?!"

I've seen her workout videos. She'd be the last person standing, if not, for sure the last female.

---

Along with Jordan, I'd wager.

No Spin Ag said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

I say the House suspends the rules on decorum and collegiality and just let them duke it out like in Parliamentary systems.

My money is on MTG delivering a few azzkickings.

---

"A few?!"

I've seen her workout videos. She'd be the last person standing, if not, for sure the last female.

---

This might be a way to pay off the debt... I am a cheapskate and there are some matchups I'd pay a TON of money to see...

aggiehawg said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

I say the House suspends the rules on decorum and collegiality and just let them duke it out like in Parliamentary systems.

My money is on MTG delivering a few azzkickings.

---

"A few?!"

I've seen her workout videos. She'd be the last person standing, if not, for sure the last female.

---

Along with Jordan, I'd wager.

---

No doubt on that one. Talk about the ultimate tag team.

TTUArmy said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

Completely agree with you that we need to fix the Swamp and Deep State. Where you lose me is 1)Trump bears no responsibility for making that happen and 2)That he is the best or certainly only choice to fix it after failing spectacularly at doing so for 4 years with Covid and Fauci as the coup de grace.

No Spin Ag said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

I say the House suspends the rules on decorum and collegiality and just let them duke it out like in Parliamentary systems.

My money is on MTG delivering a few azzkickings.

---

"A few?!"

I've seen her workout videos. She'd be the last person standing, if not, for sure the last female.

---

Along with Jordan, I'd wager.

---

No doubt on that one. Talk about the ultimate tag team.

---

They would be great!

aggie93 said:

---

TTUArmy said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

Completely agree with you that we need to fix the Swamp and Deep State. Where you lose me is 1)Trump bears no responsibility for making that happen and 2)That he is the best or certainly only choice to fix it after failing spectacularly at doing so for 4 years with Covid and Fauci as the coup de grace.

---

Let me get this straight...

• There's a deep state pulling nefarious BS in the background and it needs to be fixed.
• Trump had it coming for poking the bear and getting the teeth for trying to pass, what many here consider, liberal policy.
• You believe DeSantis can wrangle the deep state into submission and pass conservative policy.

I'm sorry man, your logic is tough to follow. I really don't think the deep state cares one iota about anyone that doesn't follow their agenda.

Haley should lend Trump her debate balls. At least she has the courage to get destroyed by DeSantis tonight.

— Reno Ciccotta (@RenoCiccotta) January 10, 2024

TTUArmy said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

TTUArmy said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I can't believe some of you are still arguing about a Christmas photo and comment about faking cancer at this point...

That kind of **** resonates with an individual, maybe...but with the 24 hour newscycle society we live in...that **** doesn't move the needle with the overall electorate one way or the other...

It's ancient history and the electorate doesn't care about that crap...


Some of y'all can keep beating that dead horse...be my guest...but it is meaningless drivel in the election cycle...

---

Is it dumb to talk about the Christmas photo, yes, yes it is...

But, there is a way of doing business where the faking cancer bit is standard operating procedure that is problematic. That is more than just a 24-hour newscycle issue. It is just a variable that you can throw in whatever the bs line of the week is that is over the line. So it's not meaningless when it comes to whether or not DeSantis should tie himself to an anchor.

---

bob...WHO in the R electorate is talking about the "faking cancer" quip Trump made? Is it a major, national topic? No..it's a personal beef that you, and a (relatively speaking) "handful" of others have...

Nationally, that was a non-story in less than 90-seconds...

Politics is a game...nobody cares what Trumps said about DeSantis's wife's illness outside of DeSantis...

That doesn't make the comment any less absurd...on that we can agree...but in the grand scheme of things...no one gives two ****s about it...that's just reality...

I can think of MANY reasons DeSantis would not want to tie himself to Trump, and I can make a similar list for why Trump would not want to tie himself to DeSantis...

But the very LAST item on either list would be stupid personal jabs taken on the campaign trail...

Remember all the **** Trump put Cruz through in 2016? Absolutely disgusting *****..

Remember who was one of Trump's loudest advocates (especially when it came to border policies and SCTOUS nominations)? Oh yeah...Ted Cruz...

It's politics...it's the nastiest I have ever seen it...but it's politics...

---

You keep casting it as me having a problem with the individual attacks, which I do, but that is not the bigger problem that I really have an issue with. That's just the way he does business. Why do we still have Obamacare? Because the way Trump does business was reckless and it cost him the deciding vote. Why is it that Trump has issues with getting good people to be on his team? Because of the way he does business. I am fully aware of the ugliness of politics and I am still a pragmatist, but being a pragmatist means that results have to follow and you have to follow the actual consequences of the methods. Doing things the Trump way has really bad track record of success, and being tied to it also has a really poor track record.

Dismissing the concerns because you think it's about "mean tweets" is ignoring the real problem, that it actually is part of a real problem.

---

If one is being objective, completely dismissing the deep state working behind the scenes to undermine Trump's administration at every turn for four solid years is something that should give all Republicans and conservatives pause. Until that is remedied, we will not have a productive R candidate in the WH. I hate that this needs to be pointed out time and again. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug.

Whoever we send to the WH will be hamstrung throughout their entire presidency.

---

Completely agree with you that we need to fix the Swamp and Deep State. Where you lose me is 1)Trump bears no responsibility for making that happen and 2)That he is the best or certainly only choice to fix it after failing spectacularly at doing so for 4 years with Covid and Fauci as the coup de grace.

---

Let me get this straight...

• There's a deep state pulling nefarious BS in the background and it needs to be fixed.
• Trump had it coming for poking the bear and getting the teeth for trying to pass, what many here consider, liberal policy.
• You believe DeSantis can wrangle the deep state into submission and pass conservative policy.

I'm sorry man, your logic is tough to follow. I really don't think the deep state cares one iota about anyone that doesn't follow their agenda.

---

I NEVER said Trump had it coming. He has been treated unfairly without question and you can see hundreds of posts from me while he was President to that effect.

The problem is Trump LOVES to fight. He begs for the fight. He eggs on the fight. That's because winning the fight isn't the goal. The goal is to get people outraged and fighting for him. Trump picks fights on stupid things constantly just to keep it spicy. Of course he has terrible people around him and is disorganized so it makes it all too easy to beat him but as I said, the goal isn't necessarily winning the fight.

Another example for instance was while Trump was President you had AOC and the Squad fighting with Nancy Pelosi. It was looking like it might get ugly as they were at war with each other. So what does Trump do? He starts commenting on it and puts himself in the middle. Then they joined together and made him the common enemy and it let them settle their business quietly while Trump gets more bad press. He couldn't just shut up or say that's their business, nope, he had to jump in the middle and make an L for the Dems into a W. He did that over and over again.

I made a comment on his civil case right now where he is doing similar. He has been pushing every button he can with the Judge to get them to sanction him and most recently to stop him from making a closing statement because Trump refuses to keep it about the case instead of politics or the judge. Why? He's not interested in winning the case. He's interested in being the victim and firing up his base about how he is being treated unfairly. Does that mean the case against him is right or the judge is good? Not at all, but Trump is using the case to once again be the "proven warrior" who "the Left will stop at nothing to destroy" a hell of a lot more than some legal fees on a case that will eventually be overturned anyway. That works great for HIM because it gets him support. It doesn't do anything to "fight the Deep State" or advance conservative values though.

DeSantis likes to fight too but he likes to win more. He doesn't fight when he doesn't need to. When he does fight though he gets all his ducks in a row before, has a tight ship with no leaks, and then he hits hard and fast. That's how he beat Disney. That's how he fired Soros Prosecutors. That's how he beat Fauci. He does his homework and he has very smart people around him.

As a reminder there is only one candidate who has any plans on holding these people accountable and making sure this can never, ever happen again. Vote as you wish but don't complain later.

Fauci just admitted to Congress that the six-foot social distancing rule was completely made up and had zero scientific basis. Incredible.

So many people -- scientists included -- were completely ostracized, silenced, and prevented from even talking about the sketchiness of the… pic.twitter.com/ixjCiWw8l2

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) January 10, 2024

aggie93 said:

---

As a reminder there is only one candidate who has any plans on holding these people accountable and making sure this can never, ever happen again. Vote as you wish but don't complain later.

---

Fauci was the so-called "expert" in his field within the administration. As leadership, you rely on your experts to give you the best information or course of action. I've done it plenty of times with great success. What this says to me is that no one in DC can be trusted...not even the "experts".

I will admit that there were plenty of other experts, not in Fauci's camp, or in the administration, that were trying to tell Trump that Fauci was putting out worthless COVID guidelines that had little, if any, scientific support. If Trump had fired Fauci, or sidelined him, the media and public would have crucified Trump anyway...in an election year.

I see no point in voting for anyone. I will complain plenty if necessary. Stop telling people what to do...tyrant.

TTUArmy said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

As a reminder there is only one candidate who has any plans on holding these people accountable and making sure this can never, ever happen again. Vote as you wish but don't complain later.

---

Fauci was the so-called "expert" in his field within the administration. As leadership, you rely on your experts to give you the best information or course of action. I've done it plenty of times with great success. What this says to me is that no one in DC can be trusted...not even the "experts".

I will admit that there were plenty of other experts, not in Fauci's camp, or in the administration, that were trying to tell Trump that Fauci was putting out worthless COVID guidelines that had little, if any, scientific support. If Trump had fired Fauci, or sidelined him, the media and public would have crucified Trump anyway...in an election year.

I see no point in voting for anyone. I will complain plenty if necessary. Stop telling people what to do...tyrant.

---

Go watch that documentary clip on DeSantis and how he handled Covid and tell me that. Trump went all in with Big Pharma. He put Warp Speed front and center every day for 6 months. He still brags about it. He didn't do his own research and find people besides Fauci. He actually did have some options btw and he chose to stick with Fauci every time. There were other experts that disagreed with Fauci both in and outside of government.

The greater point though is even if you want to forgive all of that for Trump he has no plan to look at any of what happened to make sure it doesn't happen again. He isn't pushing to restrict the power of government from shutting you down again or forcing vaccines on you. He doesn't think there was anything he should have done differently during Covid except blame Democrats more. DeSantis very publicly apologized and pardoned anyone impacted by the very brief shutdowns and restrictions in Florida and he is now like a sinner who found Christ on the subject.

So if you think what Trump did was all he could do and we shouldn't do anything to prevent it again, Trump is your guy and that's fine.

This is a big deal. One of the strongest constitutional conservatives in Iowa just switched his endorsement from @RonDeSantis to me.

This comes after @JeffShipley77 endorsed me last night. https://t.co/rOEnG7J0xW

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) January 10, 2024