Right now, sure…but Trump folks want to win…they won't "not vote" because of Haley being on the ticket…

Folks talk big until it's nut-cuttin' time…

I do think a Trump/Haley ticket beats a Biden ticket as it likely leads Biden going into Election Day next year, making the steal much harder…

But on the other hand, I am on record saying I have zero confidence that Biden will be the D candidate next November…

Old May Banker said:

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Quote:

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DeSantis made a huge career mistake by challenging MAGA.

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Please list what DeSantis believes or how he's governed that is "anti" MAGA.

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He's the only candidate in it to actually make America great. Trump just wants revenge. Haley....has no shot.

Voters disagree…

FireAg said:

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Polls disagree…

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FIFY, DeSantis has never lost an election.

Never is a really big word…especially for a guy trailing big in his home state…

FireAg said:

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Right now, sure…but Trump folks want to win…they won't "not vote" because of Haley being on the ticket…

Folks talk big until it's nut-cuttin' time…

I do think a Trump/Haley ticket beats a Biden ticket as it likely leads Biden going into Election Day next year, making the steal much harder…

But on the other hand, I am on record saying I have zero confidence that Biden will be the D candidate next November…

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Oh they might, I'm just saying that if Trump folks realized that their vote for Trump is ultimately going to be a vote for Haley and the Establishment to take over again they would feel differently. That's what is likely to happen though. That's also part of the danger of a guy like Trump as a 1 Termer, he can do anything he wants and has no accountability to the voters at that point.

I agree Trump only cares about winning and he will sell out on any issue and sell out anyone he needs to do do it.

An Iowa voter asks Ron DeSantis how he can be trusted to stand up to special interests. @RonDeSantis responds: “I went against the top company in my state, Disney, to protect kids…”

“Look at what we’ve done going against Big Pharma by banning the vax mandates” and launching a… pic.twitter.com/gHOlUAHnd8

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) December 16, 2023

ts5641 said:

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So basically we conservatives are so stupid we're giving the election to the dems? Great job folks! But Trump is playing 546D chess right?

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When Trump loses, the blame from the Trump supporters is going to FLY.

None of it will be back towards Trump or even towards themselves, though...

FireAg said:

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Right now, sure…but Trump folks want to win…they won't "not vote" because of Haley being on the ticket…

Folks talk big until it's nut-cuttin' time…

I do think a Trump/Haley ticket beats a Biden ticket as it likely leads Biden going into Election Day next year, making the steal much harder…

But on the other hand, I am on record saying I have zero confidence that Biden will be the D candidate next November…

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We know that they will find a way to rationalize all the crap they tossed at her and will start singing her praises...

Disingenuous…that's politics in general…not special to Trump supporters…

aggie93 said:

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An Iowa voter asks Ron DeSantis how he can be trusted to stand up to special interests. @RonDeSantis responds: “I went against the top company in my state, Disney, to protect kids…”

“Look at what we’ve done going against Big Pharma by banning the vax mandates” and launching a… pic.twitter.com/gHOlUAHnd8

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) December 16, 2023

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Damn that establishment candidate DeSantis!!! Going up against big corporations!! Not getting the big money establishment endorsements like Trump ally Haley!!

FireAg said:

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Never is a really big word…especially for a guy trailing big in his home state…

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You are trying a little too hard. It is simply a fact that as of now DeSantis has never lost an election. He is definitely the underdog for the nomination but facts are facts. Elections and votes matter more than polls. Polls are simply indicators.

If Trump wins big so be it but polls aren't votes.

FireAg said:

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Disingenuous…that's politics in general…not special to Trump supporters…

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Sometimes...

But most of the time the blame goes right back to the candidate.

Who does everyone blame for losing these elections:

McCain vs Obama?

Romney Vs Obama?

Bush vs Clinton?

In all of those cases, it was the candidate themselves that gets the blame - due to all the right reasons.

Do Trump now...

Trump? Fraud, cheating, etc

And in 2024, the fraud and cheating calls have already started....

I was talking about the part where you claimed they were rationalizing all of the crap they threw at her in the primaries…

Primaries can be ugly…ask Reagan/Bush…but they all get along come general time…happens on both sides…

FireAg said:

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I was talking about the part where you claimed they were rationalizing all of the crap they threw at her in the primaries…

Primaries can be ugly…ask Reagan/Bush…but they all get along come general time…happens on both sides…

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Fair enough...but even that's a stretch.

MAGA went from 100% pro life state's rights to "sure, let's federalize abortion laws because Trump said so" pretty quick. They're also like Trump in that they like who he likes, until Trump doesn't like them, then they don't like them either.

UAS Ag said:

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FireAg said:

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I was talking about the part where you claimed they were rationalizing all of the crap they threw at her in the primaries…

Primaries can be ugly…ask Reagan/Bush…but they all get along come general time…happens on both sides…

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Fair enough...but even that's a stretch.

MAGA went from 100% pro life state's rights to "sure, let's federalize abortion laws because Trump said so" pretty quick. They're also like Trump in that they like who he likes, until Trump doesn't like them, then they don't like them either.

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Well, we get told they follow Trump like a flock of birds, but how much of that is actually just the propaganda following Trump like a flock of birds?

FireAg said:

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Voters disagree…

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There was a vote?!

BigRobSA said:

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FireAg said:

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Voters disagree…

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There was a vote?!

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Votes don't matter, only polls do according to him

You should know better by now that voters don't actually get to have a say. The polls decide the nominee.

DeSantis, Christie, Romney, Cheney……cut from the same cloth.

No chance in hell to ever win another election.

Old May Banker said:

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I notice you started leaving Haley out of your trolls....

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Yep, MAGA has to back off Haley since the trial balloon is out about her being Trump's running mate.

Old May Banker said:

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I notice you started leaving Haley out of your trolls....

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Why would he badmouth Trump's VP. She's the greatest VP ever!!!!

Old May Banker said:

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I notice you started leaving Haley out.

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MUST WATCH: @MassieforKY tells the story of when Trump called him a “third-rate grandstander” for being the only member of Congress brave enough to vote against the $2 trillion CARES Act.

Massie says @RonDeSantis called him to praise him for standing strong.

“This was the only… pic.twitter.com/P3NacCFXST

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) December 17, 2023

That is a better compliment than any other current Pres candidate can claim...
DeSantis said he knew the polling was against him but in two years people would understand.

Shipwreckedcrew is one of the few honest broker observers, who is conservative politically, imho, and also very intelligent in our media world. Very good take here:

Ever notice that the NeverTrumpers have said for the past 12-18 months that Donald Trump will never be elected again. No chance; more than half the country hates him and will never vote for him; no matter how bad Biden might be the campaign will remind voters why they voted…

— Shipwreckedcrew (@shipwreckedcrew) December 17, 2023

I like his reasoning except that I'm not so sure that the poor city dwellers who vote in mass for whoever the Dems run actually consider themselves to be worse off under Biden than they were under Trump.
They are worse off, but the economy has not actually crashed and burned, so their training holds.

The thing is though that Trump also has 4 years of POTUS history that can be litigated as well. And 2020 as that tweet pointed out wasn't a very good year for many folks. And there is the Jan. 6th embarrassment and so on. The Dems can run a 'Dangerous for our Constitution and Democracy' campaign versus Trump and it will resonate with a large portion of the population. Plenty of history can be criticized with Trump no different than Biden.

Trump is as old as Biden and his personality has gotten more erratic over time. He would be very likely to play into the 'Dangerous for Democracy' hands of the Dems by continuing to focus on 2020 and relitigate the past, make his campaign largely about him and his personal grievances, than look ahead RE policies.

Somebody like DeSantis would be a much younger forward -looking candidate and a fresh face that could really change the dynamics of how a GOP 2024 campaign could play out. IMO going with Trump in 2024 is a tired and harder path to try to take back the WH but unfortunately it looks like Trump's hold over much of the GOP voter base is still there, even though he is not the same type of intriguing candidate that he was in 2016.

My only disagreement with your take, personally, is that J6 is not an embarrassment at all to me and a lot of Americans. It is if anything a motivator as the fedsurrection and all the lies about it infuriate me to this day, including the DC gulags housing political prisoners.

That, and I guess I have lost a lot of confidence we will ever see a surge in the primary that matters for RDS, as per the tweet too that I posted. DT seems to be only gaining strength as the primaries advance on the calendar.

Trump is afraid to debate DeSantis because there would be such an obvious difference in intelligence.

FoxNews Polling backing up what I've been saying here…

https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-trumps-lead-gop-primary-widens

Trump is starting to trounce the R field at this ppint, he has an edge on Biden that is increasing, but at the end of the day, Haley stands out more than Trump in a head-to-head vs Biden…

Also interesting…RFKJ is pulling votes away from everyone not named Trump when included in the conversation…

DeSantis is the clear 2nd choice for Trump voters, which is interesting when you consider this board (or at least this thread) has been mostly Never Trump or Never DeSantis…most R voters simply don't share that opinion, meaning this thread is not really indicative of how the overall electorate feels…

I still remain quite surprised that a man such as DeSantis, who has truly done some great things as governor, has failed to sustain any real traction nationally…whether in the R party, or in the overall, general electorate…

As some here have professed, it does appear that DeSantis misread the party as being ready for new direction, and he probably ran one cycle too early…

Doesn't mean he can't rebound in 2028 and have more success, but it sure appears that his goose is cooked in this cycle…

nortex97 said:

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Shipwreckedcrew is one of the few honest broker observers, who is conservative politically, imho, and also very intelligent in our media world. Very good take here:

Ever notice that the NeverTrumpers have said for the past 12-18 months that Donald Trump will never be elected again. No chance; more than half the country hates him and will never vote for him; no matter how bad Biden might be the campaign will remind voters why they voted…

— Shipwreckedcrew (@shipwreckedcrew) December 17, 2023

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He left out the little part about how Trump is not running as a conservative and that the point is after he gets convicted of multiple felonies in the Spring the General numbers are almost certain to crash. That will be compounded by the Media actually starting to ask him questions that he has no answer for like how he plans to pardon himself, how he plans to govern dealing with multiple lawsuits, etc. Oh, and of course they will likely dump Biden for a young guy and day after day remind us how we don't need another 80 year old running the world.

Biden isn't going to be the nominee so the poll is pointless.

If voters have to pick between Trump, and a younger Democrat without dementia, they are going to pick the Democrat.

FireAg said:

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FoxNews Polling backing up what I've been saying here…

https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-trumps-lead-gop-primary-widens

Trump is starting to trounce the R field at this ppint, he has an edge on Biden that is increasing, but at the end of the day, Haley stands out more than Trump in a head-to-head vs Biden…

Also interesting…RFKJ is pulling votes away from everyone not named Trump when included in the conversation…

DeSantis is the clear 2nd choice for Trump voters, which is interesting when you consider this board (or at least this thread) has been mostly Never Trump or Never DeSantis…most R voters simply don't share that opinion, meaning this thread is not really indicative of how the overall electorate feels…

I still remain quite surprised that a man such as DeSantis, who has truly done some great things as governor, has failed to sustain any real traction nationally…whether in the R party, or in the overall, general electorate…

As some here have professed, it does appear that DeSantis misread the party as being ready for new direction, and he probably ran one cycle too early…

Doesn't mean he can't rebound in 2028 and have more success, but it sure appears that his goose is cooked in this cycle…

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Most on this board are DeSantis then Trump or Trump then DeSantis so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Certainly some exceptions but issues wise they are most closely aligned outside of Vivek perhaps but very few consider him a serious candidate.

Rapier108 said:

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Biden isn't going to be the nominee so the poll is pointless.

If voters have to pick between Trump, and a younger Democrat without dementia, they are going to pick the Democrat.

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Your Opinion…

This isnt trolling. Just a fact.