LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

Yes. Polls aren't scientific, at all.

BigRobSA said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

Yes. Polls aren't scientific, at all.

---

Just like your posts.

aggie93 said:

---

Interesting

JUST IN: @NikkiHaley’s New Hampshire State director Mak Kehoe has parted ways with the campaign, according to sources familiar.

— Kelsey Walsh (@Kjwalsh_news) December 6, 2023

Look at her face light up talking about Fink and Dimond

WATCH: Nikki Haley delivers a word salad as she refuses to criticize Blackrock and woke ESG policy.

Blackrock's left-wing CEO Larry Fink is bankrolling Haley's campaign, so she's silent. pic.twitter.com/E8TO0AssDA

— Never Back Down (@NvrBackDown24) December 6, 2023

---

What a load of crap. I wouldn't even call that answer a deflection, it's like she's answering a completely different question, lol. I wasn't even considering voting for her but hell no after that answer.

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

I don't want to be too extreme I just have less faith in polls than ever. The '22 cycle really hammered that home and the '20 election was horrible as well. You had polls commonly 15-20 points off right before the election much less this far out. The reality is that getting accurate polling is almost impossible in terms of votes because of ground game operations and because so many people simply won't respond. It's not like you can just call people on their landline. Now it's a complex set of texts and cell calls and online and with so many companies with so many methods who really knows what is accurate. Polls are openly used as propaganda by campaigns as well (and not only Trump).

We will see soon enough. If Trump wins big then so be it. If not and DeSantis can pull it off then maybe our country has a chance.

texagbeliever said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

Yes. Polls aren't scientific, at all.

---

Just like your posts.

---

Right. We agree then.

All I needed was one entry-level Stats course in college to see just how hard it is to be truly neutral and unbiased when polling people. And I actually give more credibility to BigRob's posts, at least he's upfront about his biases.

We're talking about politics. Everyone here will rant about how dirty and corrupt and manipulated it is. We've seen political bias in everything from social media "policing" to entertainment to the judicial system. So are we really going to pretend that these polling companies are immune to that? That these polling companies are going to take money from PACs, political campaigns, and MSM sources to perform these polls but they're not going to skew the results to favor the customer paying for them?

Come on.

aggie93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

I don't want to be too extreme I just have less faith in polls than ever. The '22 cycle really hammered that home and the '20 election was horrible as well. You had polls commonly 15-20 points off right before the election much less this far out. The reality is that getting accurate polling is almost impossible in terms of votes because of ground game operations and because so many people simply won't respond. It's not like you can just call people on their landline. Now it's a complex set of texts and cell calls and online and with so many companies with so many methods who really knows what is accurate. Polls are openly used as propaganda by campaigns as well (and not only Trump).

We will see soon enough. If Trump wins big then so be it. If not and DeSantis can pull it off then maybe our country has a chance.

---

I seem to recall that RCP changed the average of polls to exclude those with questionable methodologies, including push polls? That Sean Trende RCP article I posted a few pages back went through the RCP polling average from 2015-present.

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

Yes. Polls aren't scientific, at all.

---

Just like your posts.

---

Right. We agree then.

All I needed was one entry-level Stats course in college to see just how hard it is to be truly neutral and unbiased when polling people. And I actually give more credibility to BigRob's posts, at least he's upfront about his biases.

We're talking about politics. Everyone here will rant about how dirty and corrupt and manipulated it is. We've seen political bias in everything from social media "policing" to entertainment to the judicial system. So are we really going to pretend that these polling companies are immune to that? That these polling companies are going to take money from PACs, political campaigns, and MSM sources to perform these polls but they're not going to skew the results to favor the customer paying for them?

Come on.

---

Yes of course biases are going to be present.

I have brought up before how the Right Direction/ Wrong Track has successfully predicted the presidential outcomes since 1980. The current RD/WT is heavily in the republicans favor. Which would confirm the Trump over Biden polls.

Now when we look at the Trump vs DeSantis polls the problem becomes more difficult. DeSantis is not a name brand. (This is why I like that he is so involved in this election because this weakness he can help improve for next cycle). Can DeSantis win Iowa, of course. But can he explode his operation to multiple states and overcome poor name recognition in states where Trump is the clear #1, not so sure. That is what the polls tell us now. DeSantis has to improve his name recognition in Iowa and then capitalize and greatly expand operations in multiple states. That is a huge task. Especially since all the debates have failed to allow him to really improve on the name brand which is what national polls capture.

So if we see a perfect expansion of operations by team DeSantis after a great result in Iowa then we will start to see polls reflect that. At the moment we can say from the polls that the debates and appearances haven't accomplished that. The polls don't say Trump has won, just show the task ahead for DeSantis to overcome.

Quote:

---

DeSantis is not a name brand. (This is why I like that he is so involved in this election because this weakness he can help improve for next cycle). Can DeSantis win Iowa, of course. But can he explode his operation to multiple states and overcome poor name recognition in states where Trump is the clear #1, not so sure. That is what the polls tell us now. DeSantis has to improve his name recognition in Iowa and then capitalize and greatly expand operations in multiple states. That is a huge task. Especially since all the debates have failed to allow him to really improve on the name brand which is what national polls capture.

---

Agree that name recognition has been a problem for DeSantis from what I can tell.

BUT with Haley's possible implosion coming, maybe that changes here soon.

It will be interesting to see if Haley's self implosion helps or hurts DeSantis. DeSantis could ride momentum in polls from the non-Trump vote consolidating to him. However, it also takes away a focal point for DeSantis to interact with to get attention. Without Haley why have any debates at all?

texagbeliever said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

Yes. Polls aren't scientific, at all.

---

Just like your posts.

---

Right. We agree then.

All I needed was one entry-level Stats course in college to see just how hard it is to be truly neutral and unbiased when polling people. And I actually give more credibility to BigRob's posts, at least he's upfront about his biases.

We're talking about politics. Everyone here will rant about how dirty and corrupt and manipulated it is. We've seen political bias in everything from social media "policing" to entertainment to the judicial system. So are we really going to pretend that these polling companies are immune to that? That these polling companies are going to take money from PACs, political campaigns, and MSM sources to perform these polls but they're not going to skew the results to favor the customer paying for them?

Come on.

---

Yes of course biases are going to be present.

I have brought up before how the Right Direction/ Wrong Track has successfully predicted the presidential outcomes since 1980. The current RD/WT is heavily in the republicans favor. Which would confirm the Trump over Biden polls.

Now when we look at the Trump vs DeSantis polls the problem becomes more difficult. DeSantis is not a name brand. (This is why I like that he is so involved in this election because this weakness he can help improve for next cycle). Can DeSantis win Iowa, of course. But can he explode his operation to multiple states and overcome poor name recognition in states where Trump is the clear #1, not so sure. That is what the polls tell us now. DeSantis has to improve his name recognition in Iowa and then capitalize and greatly expand operations in multiple states. That is a huge task. Especially since all the debates have failed to allow him to really improve on the name brand which is what national polls capture.

So if we see a perfect expansion of operations by team DeSantis after a great result in Iowa then we will start to see polls reflect that. At the moment we can say from the polls that the debates and appearances haven't accomplished that. The polls don't say Trump has won, just show the task ahead for DeSantis to overcome.

---

You know what, I agree 100% with your post.

texagbeliever said:

---

It will be interesting to see if Haley's self implosion helps or hurts DeSantis. DeSantis could ride momentum in polls from the non-Trump vote consolidating to him. However, it also takes away a focal point for DeSantis to interact with to get attention. Without Haley why have any debates at all?

---

Is tonight's the last scheduled debate though? Or are there any others scheduled? I don't think Haley drops out anytime soon, BTW. She has too much money stockpiled to continue even if her polls start the drop from these last few missteps.

aggiehawg said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

It will be interesting to see if Haley's self implosion helps or hurts DeSantis. DeSantis could ride momentum in polls from the non-Trump vote consolidating to him. However, it also takes away a focal point for DeSantis to interact with to get attention. Without Haley why have any debates at all?

---

Is tonight's the last scheduled debate though? Or are there any others scheduled? I don't think Haley drops out anytime soon, BTW. She has too much money stockpiled to continue even if her polls start the drop from these last few missteps.

---

Agreed. I don't think she was in it ffrom the beginning to actually win the WH. She was just in it to win a post in someone's administration. Now she may actually be feeling her oats and thinking she has a chance to actually win because she's picked up the media's support and the support from democratic donors. But she won't win the nomination and she won't drop out. She'll stay in the race continuimg to hope that she'll be granted a post in Trump or DeSantis' administration.

Quote:

---

She'll stay in the race continuimg to hope that she'll be granted a post in Trump or DeSantis' administration.

---

At the rate she's going, she may even tink she'd get a spot in a Dem administration with her powerful backers.

Here's a wild twist, the Dems replace Biden with Haley at the convention. LOL. /jk

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

She'll stay in the race continuimg to hope that she'll be granted a post in Trump or DeSantis' administration.

---

At the rate she's going, she may even tink she'd get a spot in a Dem administration with her powerful backers.

Here's a wild twist, the Dems replace Biden with Haley at the convention. LOL. /jk

---

I had that same thought - hope it was a fantasy because I can see Haley becoming the first female Pres while running as a Dem.

There is a 0% chance that that happens. Haley is a non-starter for winning a national election.

She is not a leader. People, voters, don't feel like Haley has a plan that elevates them. Trump clearly elevates people who were disenfranchised or casted aside. DeSantis elevates the suburban conservatives and Christians. You can't win a national election by being appealing, you need a base that is amplified by your leadership.

Interesting concept. I like it, but with enough money "image" can be created.

Rongagin71 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

She'll stay in the race continuimg to hope that she'll be granted a post in Trump or DeSantis' administration.

---

At the rate she's going, she may even tink she'd get a spot in a Dem administration with her powerful backers.

Here's a wild twist, the Dems replace Biden with Haley at the convention. LOL. /jk

---

I had that same thought - hope it was a fantasy because I can see Haley becoming the first female Pres while running as a Dem.

---

Being the darling of Blackrock, Jamie Dimon and Reid Huffman could carry her far as a Dem. she moderates on few stances, abortion, LGB++++ but keeps the border issues and inflation, the pocket book issues that voters show the GOP leads in, plus some foreign policy chops as former UN Ambassador,she forms a coalition? Clinton triangulation 2.0?

Rongagin71 said:

---

Interesting concept. I like it, but with enough money "image" can be created.

---

You can buy a certain base support but not anything that really does anything.

In what would be a great ironic twist, Haley imploding because she stated Rhino policies would be the biggest green light ever for Republicans to further solidify their efforts to move away from that. This is potentially great for the conservative movement.

texagbeliever said:

---

Rongagin71 said:

---

Interesting concept. I like it, but with enough money "image" can be created.

---

You can buy a certain base support but not anything that really does anything.

In what would be a great ironic twist, Haley imploding because she stated Rhino policies would be the biggest green light ever for Republicans to further solidify their efforts to move away from that. This is potentially great for the conservative movement.

---

And that base support includes Dominion, ES&S, Hart Inter Civic, Runbeck and Sec of State offices in six states?

aggiehawg said:

---

Rongagin71 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

She'll stay in the race continuimg to hope that she'll be granted a post in Trump or DeSantis' administration.

---

At the rate she's going, she may even tink she'd get a spot in a Dem administration with her powerful backers.

Here's a wild twist, the Dems replace Biden with Haley at the convention. LOL. /jk

---

I had that same thought - hope it was a fantasy because I can see Haley becoming the first female Pres while running as a Dem.

---

Being the darling of Blackrock, Jamie Dimon and Reid Huffman could carry her far as a Dem. she moderates on few stances, abortion, LGB++++ but keeps the border issues and inflation, the pocket book issues that voters show the GOP leads in, plus some foreign policy chops as former UN Ambassador,she forms a coalition? Clinton triangulation 2.0?

---

Holy ***** That idea never crossed my mind, but now that you put it in there I gotta say....it's not an impossibility, IMO!

That's basically Dean Phillips. Unfortunately even though he's a D, he's a white male.

Quote:

---

Holy ***** That idea never crossed my mind, but now that you put it in there I gotta say....it's not an impossibility, IMO!

---

Weirder things have happened. But the stories coming out about Haley's close (too close) ties to Dem power brokers, gave me pause into which direction she was really heading. The defections from her PACs and even state campaign members leads me to assume they are seeing a shift firsthand and bailing because of that.

That's completely a WAG on my part but makes political sense to me. Dems do not require the issue stringency that Reps do. Remember Kerry? "I was for it, before I was against it?"

Okay, the GOP debate has now gone warrior world. And Christie is supporting Haley.

Quote:

---

Fox News Channel scored another ratings victory with its "Hannity" town hall featuring former President Trump, landing the top spot as the most-watched cable news program on Tuesday.

The Davenport, Iowa town hall moderated by Fox News' Sean Hannity landed an average of 3.2 million total viewers, including 375,000 in the advertiser-coveted demographic of ages 25-54, according to Nielsen Research Data.

---

https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-channels-hannity-trump-town-hall-scores-3-2-million-viewers

In 2016 and 2020 Trump would have gotten 3.2 million to watch if it had aired live at 3AM.

He does not have the same support today and not all of those viewers are going to vote for him, ever.

While he has his only and forever base of followers, the hardcore support he had in 2016 and 2020 is not there. He might still get the nomination, but it will cost him dearly in the general election.

aggiehawg said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

LMCane said:

---

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

---

Polls....











....fodder for tards.

---

including the internal polls done by the Dems like Carville?

---

I don't want to be too extreme I just have less faith in polls than ever. The '22 cycle really hammered that home and the '20 election was horrible as well. You had polls commonly 15-20 points off right before the election much less this far out. The reality is that getting accurate polling is almost impossible in terms of votes because of ground game operations and because so many people simply won't respond. It's not like you can just call people on their landline. Now it's a complex set of texts and cell calls and online and with so many companies with so many methods who really knows what is accurate. Polls are openly used as propaganda by campaigns as well (and not only Trump).

We will see soon enough. If Trump wins big then so be it. If not and DeSantis can pull it off then maybe our country has a chance.

---

I seem to recall that RCP changed the average of polls to exclude those with questionable methodologies, including push polls? That Sean Trende RCP article I posted a few pages back went through the RCP polling average from 2015-present.

---

They excluded all Primary polls from Ratings though. Of course the polls for next November are also pointless because they are too far out. Thus they can do anything they want.

aggiehawg said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Rongagin71 said:

---

Interesting concept. I like it, but with enough money "image" can be created.

---

You can buy a certain base support but not anything that really does anything.

In what would be a great ironic twist, Haley imploding because she stated Rhino policies would be the biggest green light ever for Republicans to further solidify their efforts to move away from that. This is potentially great for the conservative movement.

---

And that base support includes Dominion, ES&S, Hart Inter Civic, Runbeck and Sec of State offices in six states?

---

Not good enough. I know we like to rag on how terrible a candidate Biden is, but before the 2020 election he ran as a guy that would elevate minorities and lower socio-economic class. He had a populace that perceived his candidacy as elevating (probably also riding the Obama coat tails). The goal of minimizing his public appearances was to not screw that up. I believe if you fail to elevate a group, which Haley will fail to do, her support will crumble. People don't vote on policies. Obama, Trump, & Biden didn't win on policies. (This is why DeSantis is not as successful presently by the way. Though he is working on his elevating pitch).

Note there are 2 parts of support to elevating. 1. The group that is being or perceived as being elevated 2. The group that once to be perceived as elevating group 1. The white liberals who hate white people are just people in group 2 who are too dumb to realize the different between actual help and perceived help. It is much easier to look like you are helping than actually helping.

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

Fox News Channel scored another ratings victory with its "Hannity" town hall featuring former President Trump, landing the top spot as the most-watched cable news program on Tuesday.

The Davenport, Iowa town hall moderated by Fox News' Sean Hannity landed an average of 3.2 million total viewers, including 375,000 in the advertiser-coveted demographic of ages 25-54, according to Nielsen Research Data.

---

https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-channels-hannity-trump-town-hall-scores-3-2-million-viewers

In 2016 and 2020 Trump would have gotten 3.2 million to watch if it had aired live at 3AM.

He does not have the same support today and not all of those viewers are going to vote for him, ever.

While he has his only and forever base of followers, the hardcore support he had in 2016 and 2020 is not there. He might still get the nomination, but it will cost him dearly in the general election.

---

It is November. 2023. I know the DeSantis people here think there is a tightly contested primary race, which there might be, but to the general public this is a Trump vs Biden race and that is over a year away. So yeah people aren't really looking to tune in to political shows.

texagbeliever said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

Fox News Channel scored another ratings victory with its "Hannity" town hall featuring former President Trump, landing the top spot as the most-watched cable news program on Tuesday.

The Davenport, Iowa town hall moderated by Fox News' Sean Hannity landed an average of 3.2 million total viewers, including 375,000 in the advertiser-coveted demographic of ages 25-54, according to Nielsen Research Data.

---

https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-channels-hannity-trump-town-hall-scores-3-2-million-viewers

In 2016 and 2020 Trump would have gotten 3.2 million to watch if it had aired live at 3AM.

He does not have the same support today and not all of those viewers are going to vote for him, ever.

While he has his only and forever base of followers, the hardcore support he had in 2016 and 2020 is not there. He might still get the nomination, but it will cost him dearly in the general election.

---

It is November. 2023. I know the DeSantis people here think there is a tightly contested primary race, which there might be, but to the general public this is a Trump vs Biden race and that is over a year away. So yeah people aren't really looking to tune in to political shows.

---

Agree with this…that's why I felt DeSantis needed to grab headlines early on so folks would pay attention to him outside of his immediate supporters…

Ouch!!
The USA can be 32 trillion dollars in debt but this will be a more grievous blow in Donald Trump's mind:

Yet, despite ruling the cable news night on Wednesday, the ratings-obsessed Trump will have to deal with the fact that the Hannity-moderated debate between DeSantis and California Gov. Gavin Newsom absolutely trounced him.

The buzzy event, which was heavily promoted by the network and aired last Thursday night, brought in a robust 4.75 million total viewers. Billed as a Red State vs. Blue State showdown, the 90-minute debate drew 742,000 in the 25-54 demographic and was Hannity's highest-rated broadcast this year.

In fact, the post-debate coverage by Hannity also outdrew Wednesday night's town hall, nabbing 3.41 million viewers overall and 524,000 in the key demo.

The DeSantis vs. Newsom fracas also helped Fox News attract twice as many primetime viewers than CNN and MSNBC combined, averaging an audience of 3.87 million compared to MSNBC's 1.34 million and CNN's 513,000 on Thursday evening.

Let's enjoy a rare moment of unity:

Basically the entire GOP: pic.twitter.com/WgGguRyova

— Will Chamberlain (@willchamberlain) December 7, 2023

and Trump lost the 2020 election by SIX MILLION VOTES (and was trounced in the electoral college) to a dementia patient living in his basement.

but please, tell us all again how Trump is the real leader who is appealing beyond his base.

He's the leader in R polling and I have zero clue what that means in the overall election next year…but he will be the R nominee short of something fairly unprecedented happening…

I know you're wishcasting for the unprecedented…I feel for you…

LMC is just trolling. Same repeated lines over and over. Obscure posting style.