PA24 said:

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Is not what Desantis says , it's what he doesn't say. That is a problem

He will NEVER be President.

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I thought the problem was his whiny voice and shoe lifts?

Rural America loves Ron DeSantis!

PA24 said:

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Is not what Desantis says , it's what he doesn't say. That is a problem

He will NEVER be President.

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What specifically would you like him to say that he isn't currently saying?

Phatbob said:

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Literally no one knows what you are talking about... maybe you could elaborate to make your point.

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I would just ignore the troll.

Unscientific observation - on my weekend drive to the ranch, I see substantially less Trump gear and flags than in 2020.

Orgs like the Iowa Corn Growers Association, the Iowa Corn Promotion Board, the Iowa Pork Producers Association, the Iowa Cattleman's Association, and the Soil and Water Conservations Districts of Iowa aren't supporting Trump.

TRM said:

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Unscientific observation - on my weekend drive to the ranch, I see substantially less Trump gear and flags than in 2020.

Orgs like the Iowa Corn Growers Association, the Iowa Corn Promotion Board, the Iowa Pork Producers Association, the Iowa Cattleman's Association, and the Soil and Water Conservations Districts of Iowa aren't supporting Trump.

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If you don't vote Trump, you ain't rural

Must the boots that gave me away.

TRM said:

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Unscientific observation - on my weekend drive to the ranch, I see substantially less Trump gear and flags than in 2020.

Orgs like the Iowa Corn Growers Association, the Iowa Corn Promotion Board, the Iowa Pork Producers Association, the Iowa Cattleman's Association, and the Soil and Water Conservations Districts of Iowa aren't supporting Trump.

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Yeah, I hate to break it to the Trump supporters on here, especially since Trump is apparently leading DeSantis here in Florida by over 1,000 points, but I've noticed the same thing.

Through the first couple of years of the Biden admin Trump signs stayed up and then of course there were FJB signs and car stickers everywhere. I'm talking big billboard sized roadside signs.

But 70% of those are gone and most of the remainders are faded and untended to.

But that's ok because Trump doesn't need the votes, he just needs his followers to "guard the votes" in some vague way.

I'm sure a large part of that is people not wishing to be targeted by deranged liberals.

aggieforester05 said:

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I'm sure a large part of that is people not wishing to be targeted by deranged liberals.

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That explanation didn't stop them from putting the stuff up from 2015 - 2022ish.

And sorry, this is FL, not CA or NY or WA. Libs don't generally **** with known Rep supporters, especially in the central and rural parts of the State.
That's due to our Stand Your Ground laws, the fact that local law enforcement would back up the homeowners, and our general Republican atmosphere.

The decline in visible Trump support in FL is not due to wariness of Libs.

If Trump or Biden wins in 2024 90% chance we're going to witness a sitting President die of old age in office. You guys prepared for Harris or Trump's VP choice to take over?

Yeah, if it was DeSantis - but Haley is more like what Trump would go for.

Rongagin71 said:

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Yeah, if it was DeSantis - but Haley is more like what Trump would go for.

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If Trump is the nominee, it will likely be Sarah Huckabee Sanders or Kari Lake.

He won't pick anyone who hasn't endorsed him and/or kissed his ass.

I think I would like Huckaby as Pres, not so sure about Lake.

Excellent segment from Iowa about there being Trump fatigue amongst Republicans and former Trump voters now backing other candidates like Ron DeSantis. This is in line with what Steve Deace, Bob Vander Platts, and Kim Reynolds have been telling us.

DeSantis 2024! pic.twitter.com/suzwUnYDzF

— Unfiltered☢Boss (@Unfilteredboss1) December 6, 2023

TRM said:

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Unscientific observation - on my weekend drive to the ranch, I see substantially less Trump gear and flags than in 2020.

Orgs like the Iowa Corn Growers Association, the Iowa Corn Promotion Board, the Iowa Pork Producers Association, the Iowa Cattleman's Association, and the Soil and Water Conservations Districts of Iowa aren't supporting Trump.

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Biden had only a few dozen show up at his rallies and got 81,000,000 votes.

TRM said:

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Unscientific observation - on my weekend drive to the ranch, I see substantially less Trump gear and flags than in 2020.

Orgs like the Iowa Corn Growers Association, the Iowa Corn Promotion Board, the Iowa Pork Producers Association, the Iowa Cattleman's Association, and the Soil and Water Conservations Districts of Iowa aren't supporting Trump.

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it's not unscientific- it's accurate across the country.

the route from Gettysburg to Hanover PA and back to Montgomery County MD was always filled with Trump flags and signs. That is literally ground zero for Trumperism in south central Pennsylvania.

nothing.

also on my drive from New Orleans to Baton Rouge last week, and then from Baton Rouge to Dallas- ONE Trump flag along the highways and backroads.

now this doesn't really mean they won't vote Trump- but what happened to those thousands of boat rallies we saw in the summer of 2020?

it's not even debatable that the Trump campaign is a listless vessel compared to what it was. Now, maybe that changes after the nomination. But it will never be as strong as it was in August 2020.

which means national defeat number 4 in a row coming up.

aggieforester05 said:

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I'm sure a large part of that is people not wishing to be targeted by deranged liberals.

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not true at all.

I was in the Daytona Beach area in September 2020 and there were literally hundreds upon hundreds of Trump flags all over people's yards, sidewalks, cars.

same thing during the Trump car rally I attended around the DC Beltway in November 2020.

same during the car rally from Gettysburg to Hanover in September 2020.

now there is nothing.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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If Trump or Biden wins in 2024 90% chance we're going to witness a sitting President die of old age in office. You guys prepared for Harris or Trump's VP choice to take over?

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first time I have ever disagree with you.

there is a 100% chance that Biden dies in office if he is the Dem nominee in 2024.

PA24 said:

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TRM said:

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Unscientific observation - on my weekend drive to the ranch, I see substantially less Trump gear and flags than in 2020.

Orgs like the Iowa Corn Growers Association, the Iowa Corn Promotion Board, the Iowa Pork Producers Association, the Iowa Cattleman's Association, and the Soil and Water Conservations Districts of Iowa aren't supporting Trump.

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Biden had only a few dozen show up at his rallies and got 81,000,000 votes.

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People must have really hated his opponent.

Will be interested to see any movement in polling after last night's town hall...DeSantis/Newsom is pretty much baked into the numbers now...didn't seem to get much more than a tiny nudge...

Suspect Trump doesn't get much play from last night in the polls either...

Extremely interested to see how Haley does tonight...can she continue her rise?

FireAg said:

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Will be interested to see any movement in polling after last night's town hall...DeSantis/Newsom is pretty much baked into the numbers now...didn't seem to get much more than a tiny nudge...

Suspect Trump doesn't get much play from last night in the polls either...

Extremely interested to see how Haley does tonight...can she continue her rise?

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The only poll that is worth looking at is the Des Moines Register poll in Iowa or another Iowa poll that releases all of the internals. I know you love to push the National polls but they really are complete garbage. They don't even count towards the ratings for those poll companies. So for instance Emerson could say Trump is up by 80 and then he loses and it won't impact their rating at all because RCP doesn't take them into account. Some of the internals on the National polls that have been released are beyond a joke. They are also running 1-2% Response rates and it varies greatly depending on if you are using texts vs calls vs other means.

Primaries also shift momentum as they go, always have. Otherwise we wouldn't have had Obama or Clinton win. Listen to people in places like Iowa and NH. Most are still just leaning one way or another but they are starting to get serious and look. If people see it as a real race after the early primaries it starts to shift.

The exception would be if DeSantis was broke and Trump had all the money. Then DeSantis might not be able to fund a national campaign and keep up. That's part of what killed Cruz, he just couldn't keep up money wise with Trump to catch up. Money is not DeSantis' problem though and he has shown he can raise as much as he needs pretty easily. Same thing with Huckabee. Same thing with Santorum. Those last 2 were also hard Social conservatives that talked like preachers and that just doesn't play well nationally. DeSantis is a devout Catholic but he really only talks about his Faith when asked or he is attending a religious event. Fundamentally Catholics are viewed differently than Evangelicals as well by most.

The real votes in Iowa in 6 weeks is when this thing starts to count Trump is still the favorite but I do know that the RCP Average is one of the least important metrics to look at.

The last Des Moines Register poll was published a month ago, and had Trump +27, and DeSantis/Haley tied:

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/caucus/2023/10/30/iowa-poll-donald-trump-leads-ron-desantis-nikki-haley-tied-presidential-candidates-gop-caucus/71342485007/

Is it your contention that DeSantis (or Haley) has cut into this +27 lead by 17-points? I believe DeSantis (or Haley) need to be within 10 pts (on average) to have a shot against Trump in Iowa in 40 days...

FireAg said:

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The last Des Moines Register poll was published a month ago, and had Trump +27, and DeSantis/Haley tied:

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/caucus/2023/10/30/iowa-poll-donald-trump-leads-ron-desantis-nikki-haley-tied-presidential-candidates-gop-caucus/71342485007/

Is it your contention that DeSantis (or Haley) has cut into this +27 lead by 17-points? I believe DeSantis (or Haley) need to be within 10 pts (on average) to have a shot against Trump in Iowa in 40 days...

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Well since then DeSantis was endorsed by Reynolds and Vander Plaats so it is entirely possible. I think the better question is why there has been so little effort to poll Iowa but so much effort to poll nationally. Iowa is notorious for swinging big and swinging late.

BTW, that Register poll showed DeSantis with the highest favorability rating and the 2nd Choice for voters. In a Caucus that's huge because of how they are conducted. If anything DeSantis' favorability has only gone up after the Newsom debate.

We will find out in 6 weeks.

What is most amazing about this 6 month old thread with hundreds and hundreds of posts..

is how many posts are about DeSantis's accomplishments, victories, policy positions, rallies.

and how many posts from the Trumpers are only about polls.

paid for by leftists in the media and the Trump campaign (Baris/Cuhaley/etc).

39 DAYS

Not a "Trumper" but you just don't get it, bud...

Right or wrong, most of America just doesn't care what DeSantis has done because, outside his substantially smaller following, nobody knows (or is taking the time to know) who he is...

That's what the data is telling us to date...the fact that some of you want to hold onto blind hope is admirable, and certainly your right, but it's not going to change the outcome...

The biggest "mover" has been Haley...she actually has real momentum that is being reflected in the polling averages... I don't think it will be enough, but in terms of actually cutting into leads...she's the one doing it right now...not DeSantis...

So in the "Town Hall" last night Trump praised Newsom in his debate but also said this. Just amazing. I sometimes wonder if Trump just is having fun throwing out the stupidest thing he can just to see if people will still go along with it.

Pathological Liar Donald Trump says that Democrats are donating to the DeSantis campaign. This lunatic lies more than Gavin Newsom. No wonder they are good friends. pic.twitter.com/hlzQlMElqU

— Unfiltered☢Boss (@Unfilteredboss1) December 6, 2023

Quote:

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Democracy Corps is a Democratic polling group founded by Stan Greenberg and James Carville. Last month the group ran a poll of 2.500 respondents in battleground states. The results, according to Greenberg, were "grim" for Democrats.

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Quote:

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Greenberg summarized the results: "This is grim." The study, he said, found that collectively, voters in the Democratic base of "Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, LGBTQ+ community, Gen Z, millennials, unmarried and college women give Trump higher approval ratings than Biden."

On 32 subjects ranging from abortion to China, the Democracy Corps survey asked voters to choose which would be better, "Biden and the Democrats" or "Trump and the Republicans."

Biden and the Democrats led on six: women's rights (ahead by 17 points), climate change (15 points), addressing racial inequality (10 points), health care (3 points), the president will not be an autocrat (plus 2) and protecting Democracy (plus 1). There was a tie on making democracy more secure.

Donald Trump and the Republicans held leads on the remaining subjects, including being for working people (a 7-point advantage), standing up to elites (8 points), being able to get things done for the American people (12 points), feeling safe (12 points) and keeping wages and salaries up with the cost of living (17 points).

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Quote:

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Despite the bad polling for Biden, there were plenty of Democratic operatives predicting he would rebound once the party settled in to the fact that Joe Biden is going to be the nominee and Donald Trump is (according to these operatives) going to be his opponent. As Simon Rosenberg put it, "Opposition and fear of MAGA is the dominant force in U.S. politics today." He's confident that the anti-Trump strategy will eventually work for Biden just as it did before.

But not everyone is as confident. Will Marshall, president of the Public Police Institute, thinks Democrats still face real danger from the extremism within the party. "Young progressives have identified the party with stances on immigration, crime, gender, climate change and Palestinian resistance that are so far from mainstream sentiment that they can even eclipse MAGA extremism," he said.

Yale's Jackob Hacker (remember him?) argues that Democrats aren't really as far left as they appear. He says the framing of Democratic wokeness and extremism is really a success of conservative media. "The obsessions of right-wing media with the 'wokeness' of the Democratic Party seeps into the broader media coverage, and mainstream sources focus on criticisms of the Democrats, in part to uphold their nonpartisan ideal," Hacker said.

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Via Hot Air

The bolded part is pretty stark to me.

The Koch Brothers backing Haley is having some backfire. Haley gushing about Fink and Dimond backing her is also making her toxic with a lot of folks.

Never Back Down has poached eight former AFP canvassers who will knock doors across Iowa in support of Ron DeSantis.

Nikki Haley has made AFP collapse. Incredible.

— Sultan Santis 🐊🇺🇸 (@SultanSantis) December 6, 2023

Did I read in here that Trump was only "1 tic better" than Joe Biden, or was I dreaming?

Group one...

Quote:

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Biden and the Democrats led on six: women's rights (ahead by 17 points), climate change (15 points), addressing racial inequality (10 points), health care (3 points), the president will not be an autocrat (plus 2) and protecting Democracy (plus 1). There was a tie on making democracy more secure.

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The Dems problem is that to most voters these are luxury issues and/or b.s. issues that the Dems have created to try to stay in power (i.e. "protecting democracy"). And when the **** hits the fan and the issues in Group 2 below start going downhill noone gives a **** about "addressing racial equality" and climate change.


Group 2...

Quote:

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Donald Trump and the Republicans held leads on the remaining subjects, including being for working people (a 7-point advantage), standing up to elites (8 points), being able to get things done for the American people (12 points), feeling safe (12 points) and keeping wages and salaries up with the cost of living (17 points).

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THIS is **** that affects people daily in their pocketbooks and their homes and their family. No matter who the candidate is, the Reps absolutely need to hammer this message in during the General Election. Make the Dems own the fact that our cost of living is increasing dramatically and quality of living is decreasing because their climate change and racial equity agendas.

aggie93 said:

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The Koch Brothers backing Haley is having some backfire. Haley gushing about Fink and Dimond backing her is also making her toxic with a lot of folks.

Never Back Down has poached eight former AFP canvassers who will knock doors across Iowa in support of Ron DeSantis.

Nikki Haley has made AFP collapse. Incredible.

— Sultan Santis 🐊🇺🇸 (@SultanSantis) December 6, 2023

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Quote:

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Some staffers at the conservative group AFP Action have left or are looking to leave the organization for rival campaigns after the group endorsed Nikki Haley for president.

The departures follow public complaints from some staffers who believe the organization should support Donald Trump or candidates closer to his political vision.

"I know a few people have left," said Chris Maidment, whose role with AFP in New Hampshire ended after he criticized the endorsement publicly on social media. "I know several, who are still there, are unhappy."

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Quote:

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Americans for Prosperity, founded with money from the libertarian Koch family in 2004, has organized hundreds of thousands of conservatives to lobby at the federal, state, and local levels. Its South Carolina and Florida branches worked with both Haley and DeSantis as governors; AFP Action is its electoral campaign arm, and endorsed Haley as "a candidate who can turn the page and win." (The Charles Koch-founded Stand Together network is an investor in Semafor.)

Haley critics inside AFP responded by saying they'd warned they might leave if the candidate got the group's endorsement, NBC News reported. They objected in part to her support for funding Ukraine's military defense, her proposal for verifying the identities of social media accounts, and her support for business tax incentives in South Carolina.

The defection warning has, in fact, come to fruition: Never Back Down, the pro-DeSantis super PAC, recently hired two former AFP Action grassroots directors for its Iowa political team. The two staffers, who served on AFP Action's Iowa team, resigned after disagreeing with the Haley endorsement, Semafor was told.

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LINK

Interesting

JUST IN: @NikkiHaley’s New Hampshire State director Mak Kehoe has parted ways with the campaign, according to sources familiar.

— Kelsey Walsh (@Kjwalsh_news) December 6, 2023

Look at her face light up talking about Fink and Dimond

WATCH: Nikki Haley delivers a word salad as she refuses to criticize Blackrock and woke ESG policy.

Blackrock's left-wing CEO Larry Fink is bankrolling Haley's campaign, so she's silent. pic.twitter.com/E8TO0AssDA

— Never Back Down (@NvrBackDown24) December 6, 2023