Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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Not following…he would lose votes for pardoning someone who didn't actually commit crimes?

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This is why it doesn't matter what DeSantis does, he will not get the attention of the Trump core by doing the same things he does. It isn't that DeSantis has done anything that he shouldn't have, it's that the Trump core will buy anything that is Trump branded, and will never in a million years buy anything not Trump branded, no matter if it agrees with them 100%. They will find whatever excuse that it isn't good enough.

It's not worth trying to capture the Trump base, because no one else is Trump, and that is the only thing they care about. There is a reason why certain terms have been bandied about, because they are accurate, and no, using those terms is not going to scare them off, because they have no intention of doing anything but supporting Trump and only Trump.

---

Hence my post from a few days ago that DeSantis has run a great campaign so far.

It's not his fault that there are large pluralities who are so enthralled by Trump they won't support anyone else. And savage actual successful conservatives.

Just as Ronald Reagan was not at fault for losing to Gerald Ford in the 1976 primaries.

If Republican primary voters and those participating in the caucus and primaries choose the weakest candidate- that's on them.

FireAg said:

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That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

If he isn't appealing to the voters he needs to win the nomination, then no, he is not running a good campaign...

You have to adjust and evolve to what appeals to the voters you need to win...again, I come back to the word 'inertia'...

You can't change what appeals to them, but you can adjust you approach and message to catch their attention...

DeSantis needs to do this if he's going to win the nomination...

The "purist" in you may not like that, but would you rather die on the "purist" hill, or would you rather see RD get elected?

I'd rather RD get elected...

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

If Desantis can win Iowa -

the entire calculus of the national election changes the same day.

A reporter actually called Trump for not commenting about Idalia.

NEW: @RonDeSantis totally dismisses Donald Trump and his lack of concern for Florida, says his only concern is “protecting the people of Florida”.

That’s a leader right there. People over politics.

pic.twitter.com/QFViZ7InWr

— Cryptid Politics 🇺🇸🐊 (@CryptidPolitics) August 30, 2023

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

LMCane said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

If Desantis can win Iowa -

the entire calculus of the national election changes the same day.

---

Based on what?

Ted Cruz is on Line 1 for you...

Winning Iowa would be a boost to his chances, but winning Iowa is a poor indicator for clinching the R nomination...

LMCane said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

If Desantis can win Iowa -

the entire calculus of the national election changes the same day.

---

Agreed. In my opinion the large majority of people who will vote on the primaries are barely paying attention at this point, only the hardcore/heavily online trumpers are following his every move and skewing the polls, and the media and left are continuing to do him favors by keeping him in the spotlight.

My guess is that there are a ton of "anyone but Trump" Republican voters around the country who will just vote for whatever favorite emerges after Iowa when normal people who don't follow all of the circus until election year start paying attention (especially if Trump actually shows up to a debate and republicans are get a fresh reminder what a clown he is). That, paired with the candidates with zero chance of winning dropping out, hopefully results the party finally dropping Trump for good.

Except that it is just a different path. We don't know if it will be the correct path or not, but if it works, then all of this hand-wringing will seem silly and he will have shown the right way to move past this moment in circus history. You could say the same thing for Trump's 2016 strategy. It looked like he was an idiot for doing anything that he did, right up until the election. When he squeaked that win out, suddenly he's some genius who knew how to grab the reality show tendencies of the public. Well, it isn't going to look the same when you have people move away from idiocracy as it looks when people move towards it. It takes discipline. Hopefully it works

Phatbob said:

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Except that it is just a different path. We don't know if it will be the correct path or not, but if it works, then all of this hand-wringing will seem silly and he will have shown the right way to move past this moment in circus history. You could say the same thing for Trump's 2016 strategy. It looked like he was an idiot for doing anything that he did, right up until the election. When he squeaked that win out, suddenly he's some genius who knew how to grab the reality show tendencies of the public. Well, it isn't going to look the same when you have people move away from idiocracy as it looks when people move towards it. It takes discipline. Hopefully it works

---

Yeah...I'd rather win...know your audience and adjust to appeal to them and win...

TRM said:

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Still can't admit he was wrong.

🚨LISTEN! Trump AGAIN says he did a great thing locking the country down.

“We did a great job with COVID. Has never been acknowledged, but it will be in history. We did a great job with the ventilators.”

He would do it again! pic.twitter.com/XUEs9rfsSO

— Chris Nelson 🇺🇸 🏝 (@ReOpenChris) August 29, 2023

---

Not surprisingly he's getting crushed in this poll.

On Tuesday, Donald Trump told Glenn Beck that he did "a great job with COVID. Has never been acknowledged, but it will be in history. We did a great job with the ventilators.”

Do you agree with this?

— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) August 30, 2023

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

---

To me it appears desantis is trying to do that, but slowly. Coming out of the gate positive and trying to highlight differences. Not really bashing, but showing a better way. If he's going where I think he's going, it's letting the idea that trump really, really failed on Covid and working with congress sink in. Let people digest that. Then slowly turn up the heat as people start to agree more and more. The media has bashed trump from the beginning and it only gets his supporters to dig their heels in deeper. You have to bring people along slowly.

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

---

You are assuming nothing would change in their minds about the situation. Trump not being an option is never going to be an option for them. Trump will make some statement about how DeSantis is conspiring with the left again, and they should stick their fingers in the eye of the left by writing him in. Those Trump only voters will pretend like they would have voted DeSantis if only... like they always have. It's like drug addicts who think they can stop at any time.

The Banned said:

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FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

---

To me it appears desantis is trying to do that, but slowly. Coming out of the gate positive and trying to highlight differences. Not really bashing, but showing a better way. If he's going where I think he's going, it's letting the idea that trump really, really failed on Covid and working with congress sink in. Let people digest that. Then slowly turn up the heat as people start to agree more and more. The media has bashed trump from the beginning and it only gets his supporters to dig their heels in deeper. You have to bring people along slowly.

---

I am the first to say the entire system failed with regard to Covid...

But I think some folks are putting way too much emphasis on that as it relates to Trump...why? This was an unprecedented event, and I think it caught the entire world off guard... I don't think DeSantis, Reagan, or Jesus Christ would have handled it much better... So I think we, as a society, could have done A LOT better...the lockdowns were dumb, masks were asinine, and pushing the vaxx was reactionary and foolhardy...

But I don't think there is anyone out there, if put in the same spot, that could have done noticeably better in the moment...

I would drop the Covid crap and focus on things that actually get more R's excited...

Finish the wall, for example...

No vaxx mandates on my watch...

No foreign wars...

American jobs and products first...

A balanced federal budget...(really would like to see an R candidate run on that as a way to battle debt and inflation)...

Look, there are several other things that would be appealing, but he needs to find one or two real winners that hit home with a broad audience, and hammer those home...he can't focus on all of them...find a rallying cry that will appeal to the masses...

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

---

You are assuming nothing would change in their minds about the situation. Trump not being an option is never going to be an option for them. Trump will make some statement about how DeSantis is conspiring with the left again, and they should stick their fingers in the eye of the left by writing him in. Those Trump only voters will pretend like they would have voted DeSantis if only... like they always have. It's like drug addicts who think they can stop at any time.

---

Brother...you are putting way too much stock into what an extreme wing of the Trump voting bloc listens too...

You're worried about the extreme 10% (if that) of them...there's a large portion of them though who prefer Trump but absolutely would consider DeSantis...

Have to appeal to those...

Some of y'all are your own worst enemies when it comes to Twitter or Truth Social, blah blah blah...

Most Americans, including a large number of the Trump voting bloc, simply don't hang on the man's every word or even follow him on social media...

A lot of y'all do, and you keep posting every morsel, every nugget of what the man says so you can point and laugh and tear it down on an Aggie chat forum... So you are drawing conclusions about those who prefer Trump that are based on one hit sound bites that appeal to an extreme side of his fanbase and bringing them here to tear them down as if it is going to have an impact on swaying a casual Trump supporter...you follow the man closer than most of those who might vote for him...

DeSantis can win this thing...but he will have to do it by modifying his approach...start running the campaign like a front-runner and not a challenger...start stealing a headline or two... Stop worrying about what Trump said about you, and start pushing a message where you are the guy who can be the Trump folks thought they were electing..but EFFECTIVE...

It's not that Trump's base is hanging on every post, it's what the base is willing to listen to. They have rejected the MSM, and rightly so, but they also want to find an outlet to get their information from somewhere. They've traded the sycophantic left media for the Trump biased sources which are just as sycophantic.

FireAg said:

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LMCane said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

If Desantis can win Iowa -

the entire calculus of the national election changes the same day.

---

Based on what?

Ted Cruz is on Line 1 for you...

Winning Iowa would be a boost to his chances, but winning Iowa is a poor indicator for clinching the R nomination...

---

Based on dynamics.

In 2016, no one anticipated Trump was going to do what he ended up doing in the primaries. Caught the field flat-footed, Cruz included.

For the establishment Republican, Cruz was a despised outsider. They were not going to rally around him early in the process regardless of how he did in Iowa or the other primaries.

In 2024, Trump is the front-runner without question. Those who do not want Trump as the nominee will be looking to coalesce around an alternative as early in the process as possible.

The winner in Iowa or perhaps New Hampshire, under those conditions, has a far better chance of getting that advantage of consolidation than Cruz did in 2016.

Trump rolls those early primaries like Tom Osborne's Cornhuskers in 1996 and 1997, then any hope of a relevant opposition figure emerging as a contender is done and dusted.

Phatbob said:

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It's not that Trump's base is hanging on every post, it's what the base is willing to listen to. They have rejected the MSM, and rightly so, but they also want to find an outlet to get their information from somewhere. They've traded the sycophantic left media for the Trump biased sources which are just as sycophantic.

---

The Last Refuge
The National File
The National Pulse
The Gateway Pundit
Conservative Treehouse
Breitbart
Banned.Video
Infowars
unTruth Social

etc. etc. etc.

MAGA's "news" sites are as bad or worse than anything the MSM puts out.

Stlkofta said:

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FireAg said:

---

LMCane said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

If Desantis can win Iowa -

the entire calculus of the national election changes the same day.

---

Based on what?

Ted Cruz is on Line 1 for you...

Winning Iowa would be a boost to his chances, but winning Iowa is a poor indicator for clinching the R nomination...

---

Based on dynamics.

In 2016, no one anticipated Trump was going to do what he ended up doing in the primaries. Caught the field flat-footed, Cruz included.

For the establishment Republican, Cruz was a despised outsider. They were not going to rally around him early in the process regardless of how he did in Iowa or the other primaries.

In 2024, Trump is the front-runner without question. Those who do not want Trump as the nominee will be looking to coalesce around an alternative as early in the process as possible.

The winner in Iowa or perhaps New Hampshire, under those conditions, has a far better chance of getting that advantage of consolidation than Cruz did in 2016.

Trump rolls those early primaries like Tom Osborne's Cornhuskers in 1996 and 1997, then any hope of a relevant opposition figure emerging as a contender is done and dusted.

---

Perhaps...but precedent in the R nomination process says otherwise...

Winning Iowa does not preclude you from winning the nomination, but on the R-side, it definitely doesn't point toward an assured path to victory at the convention:

2020 - Donald Trump (Trump)
2016 - Ted Cruz (Trump)
2012 - Rick Santorum (Romney)
2008 - Mike Huckabee (McCain)
2004 - W Bush (unopposed)
2000 - W Bush (W Bush)
1996 - Bob Dole (Dole)
1992 - HW Bush (unopposed)
1988 - Bob Dole (HW Bush)
1984 - Ronald Reagan (unopposed)
1980 - HW Bush (Reagan)

Only twice in the last 11 election cycles has the R winner of the Iowa Caucuses won Iowa and gone onto win the R nomination, when competing against other contenders...

In the times where there was opposition in Iowa on the R ticket, the winner in Iowa went on to win a contested nomination just 29% of the time...71% of the time, the Iowa winner did not win the nomination when contested... In theory, you could argue that Trump 2020 was "contested" in Iowa, but that was still a foregone conclusion as to who was going to win (Weld got 1 delegate to Trump's 39)...

Ronald Reagan competed 3X in the Iowa Caucuses...a man who all R's point to as standard for conservatism...he lost the Iowa Caucuses 67% of t time, with his only victory there being when he was the unopposed incumbent POTUS in 1984...

Stlkofta said:

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FireAg said:

---

LMCane said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

If Desantis can win Iowa -

the entire calculus of the national election changes the same day.

---

Based on what?

Ted Cruz is on Line 1 for you...

Winning Iowa would be a boost to his chances, but winning Iowa is a poor indicator for clinching the R nomination...

---

Based on dynamics.

In 2016, no one anticipated Trump was going to do what he ended up doing in the primaries. Caught the field flat-footed, Cruz included.

For the establishment Republican, Cruz was a despised outsider. They were not going to rally around him early in the process regardless of how he did in Iowa or the other primaries.

In 2024, Trump is the front-runner without question. Those who do not want Trump as the nominee will be looking to coalesce around an alternative as early in the process as possible.

The winner in Iowa or perhaps New Hampshire, under those conditions, has a far better chance of getting that advantage of consolidation than Cruz did in 2016.

Trump rolls those early primaries like Tom Osborne's Cornhuskers in 1996 and 1997, then any hope of a relevant opposition figure emerging as a contender is done and dusted.

---

Exactly, two different situations that can't honestly be compared.

The whole narrative right now is that Trump is unbeatable, that it's a foregone conclusion he's going to win the nomination. But that's really all that people are holding on to - the narrative that Trump is on top with a 92 pt lead, blah, blah, blah. If Desantis wins the IA caucus then people who look only at the polls and hear only the media's narrative that Desantis is a lost cause, etc will have their whole current beliefs upended and be forced to start analyzing this race more factually rather than simply by listening to MSM/Trump spin.

THAT changes things. To deny that says more about your current mindset.

Winning Iowa and getting an endorsement from Sununu resulting in a NH win, would go a long way towards coalescing around an alternative.

TRM said:

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TRM said:

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Still can't admit he was wrong.

---

Not surprisingly he's getting crushed in this poll.

On Tuesday, Donald Trump told Glenn Beck that he did "a great job with COVID. Has never been acknowledged, but it will be in history. We did a great job with the ventilators.”

Do you agree with this?

— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) August 30, 2023

---

89% disagree with Trump
11% agree with Trump

and we know now that Trump would do the exact same thing regarding Covid ALL OVER AGAIN if he was to be elected POTUS.

It's was 93/7 earlier, but pretty clear what GOP voters think.

Stlkofta said:

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FireAg said:

---

LMCane said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

If Desantis can win Iowa -

the entire calculus of the national election changes the same day.

---

Based on what?

Ted Cruz is on Line 1 for you...

Winning Iowa would be a boost to his chances, but winning Iowa is a poor indicator for clinching the R nomination...

---

Based on dynamics.

In 2016, no one anticipated Trump was going to do what he ended up doing in the primaries. Caught the field flat-footed, Cruz included.

For the establishment Republican, Cruz was a despised outsider. They were not going to rally around him early in the process regardless of how he did in Iowa or the other primaries.

In 2024, Trump is the front-runner without question. Those who do not want Trump as the nominee will be looking to coalesce around an alternative as early in the process as possible.

The winner in Iowa or perhaps New Hampshire, under those conditions, has a far better chance of getting that advantage of consolidation than Cruz did in 2016.

Trump rolls those early primaries like Tom Osborne's Cornhuskers in 1996 and 1997, then any hope of a relevant opposition figure emerging as a contender is done and dusted.

---

also, the anti-Trump candidates in 2016:

very strong and popular Marco Rubio (who I supported)
Herman Cain
Dr. Ben Carson
very strong and popular Ted Cruz
moderately popular John Kasich
Jeb!! Bush scion of the Bush Dynasty
Mike Huckabee

that's a hell of a lot stronger field in 2016 dividing up the anti-Trump vote than Vivek!! and Tim Scott.

FireAg said:

---

Perhaps...but precedent in the R nomination process says otherwise...

Winning Iowa does not preclude you from winning the nomination, but on the R-side, it definitely doesn't point toward an assured path to victory at the convention:

2020 - Donald Trump (Trump)
2016 - Ted Cruz (Trump)
2012 - Rick Santorum (Romney)
2008 - Mike Huckabee (McCain)
2004 - W Bush (unopposed)
2000 - W Bush (W Bush)
1996 - Bob Dole (Dole)
1992 - HW Bush (unopposed)
1988 - Bob Dole (HW Bush)
1984 - Ronald Reagan (unopposed)
1980 - HW Bush (Reagan)

Only twice in the last 11 election cycles has the R winner of the Iowa Caucuses won Iowa and gone onto win the R nomination, when competing against other contenders...

In the times where there was opposition in Iowa on the R ticket, the winner in Iowa went on to win a contested nomination just 29% of the time...71% of the time, the Iowa winner did not win the nomination when contested... In theory, you could argue that Trump 2020 was "contested" in Iowa, but that was still a foregone conclusion as to who was going to win (Weld got 1 delegate to Trump's 39)...

Ronald Reagan competed 3X in the Iowa Caucuses...a man who all R's point to as standard for conservatism...he lost the Iowa Caucuses 67% of t time, with his only victory there being when he was the unopposed incumbent POTUS in 1984...

---

Good point. But past results are not indicative of the future when a lightning rod/wild card like President Trump is thrown into the mix.

You have the first Republican President who lost/skipped a term in office since Theodore Roosevelt (Albeit as a Bull-Moose candidate.) running for the White House again. He is strongly popular with his base of voters and it is difficult to see him ever floating below 35% at any time in the future. My guess is he will always be close to 40% and there will be many occasions where is well above that mark.

But the fact is that he also enjoys a strong opposition from those who want another choice in 2024. Those groups are in different camps now. But if a Republican earns enough support to represent a solid alternative, then those people will move to that candidate in an effort to prevent President Trump from winning the nomination.

We have a candidate who many support and many are against in this race. With that kind of candidate involved in 2024, we could see something more like the 2008 Democrat Primary than the typical GOP process--especially if one candidate steps up above and beyond the others to serve as the singular alternative here.

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

---

Probably his best opportunities currently are the hurricane response and the debate with Newsom.

aggie93 said:

---

FireAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FireAg said:

---

That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

---

I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

---

You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

---

Probably his best opportunities currently are the hurricane response and the debate with Newsom.

---

Hurricane response I agree...obviously he can't afford a Katrina look (from a state-level equivalency, anyway)...

I think the Newsom debate is a distraction unless Newsom is in the race...

I love the idea of comparing CA vs FL politics...but most voters probably wouldn't watch unless Newsom is in...

FireAg said:

---

But I don't think there is anyone out there, if put in the same spot, that could have done noticeably better in the moment...

---

Bull****

I was calling it on day 1. Every couple of years we get yet another "zOMG!" respiratory virus from China. This was nothing special.

President Rob would've kicked ass at this silliness.

BigRobSA said:

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FireAg said:

---

But I don't think there is anyone out there, if put in the same spot, that could have done noticeably better in the moment...

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Bull****

I was calling it on day 1. Every couple of years we get yet another "zOMG!" respiratory virus from China. This was nothing special.

President Rob would've kicked ass at this silliness.

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Absolutely preposterous to assume that...

No evidence whatsoever that he would have responded any differently at the beginning...

As time wore on? Perhaps...but not at the beginning...

Even the most sane and rational conservatives I know were ****ting the bed at the beginning...

And this is coming from someone in myself who thought the whole response was dumb and we were being overly reactionary, and also someone who hasn't had the jab yet...

He called him a "scumbag" instead of a "racist". Therefore, he's a racist.

I wish someone would push back and mention statistics here, but they won't.

https://air.tv/?v=tkNOgXAdQKGyUEiua-QBLQ

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/08/30/msnbc-upset-that-desantis-referred-to-jacksonville-killer-as-a-scumbag-1391451/

Quote:

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"And yesterday, Governor DeSantis, in Florida, facing audible boos at a Jacksonville vigil for the three victims. At the vigil, DeSantis called the gunman a scumbag and Jeffrey Rumlin, a Jacksonville pastor who spoke after DeSantis, was very direct in his response. He said 'at the end of the day, respectfully, governor, he was not a scumbag, he was a racist.' What's your response to that?" Mitchell asked.

"You know, for so many folks, the issue with that language is it places the onus on one individual and the actions of one individual as opposed to a nationwide sickness of white supremacy in the country and the violence it fuels," Lee responded, failing to mention the national epidemic of black-on-black violence in Democrat-controlled cities like Chicago which claims far more black lives than the concocted "white supremacy" myth.

"As so long as he is a scumbag or as long as there's a mental health issue you don't have to engage with the idea that there are, you know, co-conspirators online, co-conspirators who create legislation that divide and other people," he added, downplaying the national mental health crisis while suggesting that Republican lawmakers are somehow to blame for the actions of one deranged individual.

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FireAg said:

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BigRobSA said:

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FireAg said:

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But I don't think there is anyone out there, if put in the same spot, that could have done noticeably better in the moment...

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Bull****

I was calling it on day 1. Every couple of years we get yet another "zOMG!" respiratory virus from China. This was nothing special.

President Rob would've kicked ass at this silliness.

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Absolutely preposterous to assume that...

No evidence whatsoever that he would have responded any differently at the beginning...

As time wore on? Perhaps...but not at the beginning...

Even the most sane and rational conservatives I know were ****ting the bed at the beginning...

And this is coming from someone in myself who thought the whole response was dumb and we were being overly reactionary, and also someone who hasn't had the jab yet...

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Who the hell are you babbling about? I'm President Rob. And yes, I'd have kicked ass, as always.

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Phatbob said:

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FireAg said:

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That's a very defeatist attitude...

You're basically saying DeSantis can't win the nomination...

I disagree...but he is going to have to attract some from the Trump base to be the nominee...

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I don't think he can't win the nomination, it's just going to be difficult. He's going to have to do it without the only-Trump faction of the party that insist on taking this whole thing down with them.

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You're giving waaaaaaay to much credit to this "only Trump" idea...

Every Trump person I know would vote for DeSantis if Trump was not an option...

So how does DeSantis convince folks Trump is not an option?

I believe there are ways to minimize Trump and take wind out of his sails...but DeSantis needs to do something different to start making that push...

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Probably his best opportunities currently are the hurricane response and the debate with Newsom.

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Hurricane response I agree...obviously he can't afford a Katrina look (from a state-level equivalency, anyway)...

I think the Newsom debate is a distraction unless Newsom is in the race...

I love the idea of comparing CA vs FL politics...but most voters probably wouldn't watch unless Newsom is in...

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Disagree on that. Biden isn't debating anyone and likely drops out at some point. Nothing else politically going on in November really outside of off year elections, certainly this is the most interesting thing in the Presidential calendar and a rare opportunity to have 2 of the rising stars in both parties going H2H and talking policy. None of the other GOP contenders are doing anything like it. It's also on Hannity so that's going to pull a GOP audience. I certainly don't see it as a "meh" event.

Could have sworn I heard the WH briefing say Biden was going to tour FL with DeSantis. If true, that's a bad look for Biden and Trump. DeSantis, young and vibrant, juxtaposed against decrepit Biden is a winning contrast for DeSantis. Trump is not as bad as Biden, he's clearly not the same as 8 years ago.

This will make BigRob happy. Take your Inflation Raising Act money and shove it where the sun don't shine.

"The Inflation Reduction Act makes Florida eligible for some $350 million in energy efficiency incentives. But Gov. Ron DeSantis has rejected the funding and other measures" @jenhab https://t.co/HddpSWdaiE

— Jeff Stein (@JStein_WaPo) August 30, 2023

Looks like the debate bumps are baked in now, and the brief momentum gained is waning...