aggiehawg said:

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FireAg said:

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The Banned said:

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FireAg said:

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Perhaps, but then those who favor DeSantis should be working harder to build bridges with those who prefer Trump, rather than call them names and label them as cultists...

Whether folks want to admit it or not, a very large portion of the R-base is still very much pro-Trump, and the more the Left tries to bury him with fake charges and crimes, the stronger their resolve seems to become...

Yet no one on the DeSantis side seems to want to reach out to those on the Trump side to find common ground...all they care to do is attack anyone who says anything positive about Trump...

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Trumps team has done nothing by name call and slander. Most trump supporters believe him. How does one institute a quality reach out program?

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I'm sorry...but how exactly do you know that "most" Trump supporters believe him? Where is that statistic or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass?

I'll vote for whomever is the R at the top of the ballot in 2024, but I don't despise Trump, and I don't take his antics in political warfare all that seriously...

In fact, I would argue that there are a great many folks out there who are probably just like me...

But nope...if you have any positive feeling at all about Trump, some of you feel it necessary to shame such individuals...

Two wrongs make a right, I guess? Good luck with that...

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From 2017 on, like K.T. McFarland always said, "Don't listen to what Trump says, watch what he does."

Policies, policies, policies.

So, I'm watching what DeSantis is doing and not paying as much attention to what he says. All politicans can talk a good game but will they do it?

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So let's take that to the next level then... when Trump criticizes what Desantis has done, in policy decisions, which can be in some ways compared (some are hard to compare because of different offices, obviously), why should we not listen to what he says? If it is just an admission that Trump doesn't mean what he says, and what he REALLY means is really great policy (just trust us)... I don't find that compelling in a good way.

Trump is an 80 year old clown. His antics will not allow his voters to mend fences or consider a better candidate. With him as their leader, conservatism is dead. He will never be elected.

FireAg said:

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The Banned said:

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FireAg said:

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Perhaps, but then those who favor DeSantis should be working harder to build bridges with those who prefer Trump, rather than call them names and label them as cultists...

Whether folks want to admit it or not, a very large portion of the R-base is still very much pro-Trump, and the more the Left tries to bury him with fake charges and crimes, the stronger their resolve seems to become...

Yet no one on the DeSantis side seems to want to reach out to those on the Trump side to find common ground...all they care to do is attack anyone who says anything positive about Trump...

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Trumps team has done nothing by name call and slander. Most trump supporters believe him. How does one institute a quality reach out program?

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I'm sorry...but how exactly do you know that "most" Trump supporters believe him? Where is that statistic or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass?

I'll vote for whomever is the R at the top of the ballot in 2024, but I don't despise Trump, and I don't take his antics in political warfare all that seriously...

In fact, I would argue that there are a great many folks out there who are probably just like me...

But nope...if you have any positive feeling at all about Trump, some of you feel it necessary to shame such individuals...

Two wrongs make a right, I guess? Good luck with that...

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Exactly. As of now I plan on voting Trump in the primary, but I'm about 55/45 in favor of Trump over DeSantis. I could easily sway in DeSantis' favor for my primary vote since it is a long ways off.

But my vote is not FOR Trump but rather a vote AGAINST the status quo. Voting for DeSantis is voting for the status quo of slight leaning to the right when the GOP half of the uniparty down ballot gets in power then allows a strong pull left when they grasp defeat from the jaws of victory the next cycle.

Trump has a chance to really blow up the incumbent down ballots which is where the real swamp is. Ideally, DeSantis wins the nomination AND people vote out the incumbent establishment types down ballot, but history shows that voters are dumb when it comes to down ballot votes, thus a wrecking ball needs to be at the top.

Charpie said:

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I think the hardest pill to swallow with trump is that he simply cannot win the general. He may have a very loyal, rabid primary following, but that's really it. The rest of us are seeing the long game. trump supporters aren't, and if you aren't thinking past the primary, you're not going to win.

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Cult45 doesn't care about winning the general. They just want win the nomination and destroy DeSantis. They know the general election is lost with Trump, but they don't even care about it at this point. They just want any kind of "victory".

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But my vote is not FOR Trump but rather a vote AGAINST the status quo. Voting for DeSantis is voting for the status quo of slight leaning to the right when the GOP half of the uniparty down ballot gets in power then allows a strong pull left when they grasp defeat from the jaws of victory the next cycle.

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Quote:

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Cult45 doesn't care about winning the general. They just want win the nomination and destroy DeSantis. They know the general election is lost with Trump, but they don't even care about it at this point. They just want any kind of "victory".

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The best part is you've convinced yourself that this is truth.

Yes.... Trump has really proven his ability to "blow up" down ballot votes. lol

Charpie said:

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I think the hardest pill to swallow with trump is that he simply cannot win the general. He may have a very loyal, rabid primary following, but that's really it. The rest of us are seeing the long game. trump supporters aren't, and if you aren't thinking past the primary, you're not going to win.

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I think it's the exact opposite. The people advocating for Trump, or more accurately are advocating against the big gov establishment, are the ones looking at the long game.

The people that think we can continue voting for the GOP types that have enabled the country to spiral out of control are the ones that are only looking a single election cycle at a time.

Neither side is wrong and both sides have merits, but to claim that Trump voters are not looking at the long game is naive at best or a disagreement on what timeframe the "long game" is in play.

Was RDS a poor pick by Trump when he endorsed him? But now he's "establishment"? lol

Voting for 80 year olds isn't a "long game"

Old May Banker said:

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Yes.... Trump has really proven his ability to "blow up" down ballot votes. lol

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You miss the point. The vote is not FOR Trump or his abilities to do anyting really. It's a vote AGAINST the establishment.

The people voting AGAINST the establishment are the types that are willing to vote against the establishment incumbents down ballot.

The sheep in the general that vote for "whoever is the R" will gladly fall in line for the non-establishment types that make it out of the primary.

And to the poster above about my slightly to the right comment, had you read my entire post you would notice it was not in reference to DeSantis himself. He certainly is more conservative than most, however the down ballot R's are what would cripple him just like they crippled Trump. The overall effect is a slight pull to the right then the inevitable big pull left later if you keep playing the status quo game down ballot.

Old May Banker said:

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Voting for 80 year olds isn't a "long game"

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Did you not read anything I posted?.?.? I did not say the vote was FOR Trump but rather AGAINST the establishment down ballot. Trump can play golf and nap all day for all I care as long as he's available when the phone rings.

And in the long run, the phone will not ring as often if there are less establishment types down ballot trying to hinder the conservative ideology.

Trump by himself is not the long-term answer. Neither is DeSantis by himself.
The long-term answer is cleaning up the down ballot candidates, and I truly wished DeSantis would put greater emphasis on that. Until he does, the long-term answer is Trump now and the effects down ballot later.

Tea Party said:

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The vote is not FOR Trump or his abilities to do anything really. It's a vote AGAINST the establishment.

The people voting AGAINST the establishment are the types that are willing to vote against the establishment incumbents down ballot.

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1000% this...

Very well said...

For state offices, yes down ballot may have impact. I just don't see how that would impact the presidential selection.

Tea Party said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Yes.... Trump has really proven his ability to "blow up" down ballot votes. lol

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You miss the point. The vote is not FOR Trump or his abilities to do anyting really. It's a vote AGAINST the establishment.

The people voting AGAINST the establishment are the types that are willing to vote against the establishment incumbents down ballot.

The sheep in the general that vote for "whoever is the R" will gladly fall in line for the non-establishment types that make it out of the primary.

And to the poster above about my slightly to the right comment, had you read my entire post you would notice it was not in reference to DeSantis himself. He certainly is more conservative than most, however the down ballot R's are what would cripple him just like they crippled Trump. The overall effect is a slight pull to the right then the inevitable big pull left later if you keep playing the status quo game down ballot.

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So here's my first question before I respond further to your argument.

Do you truly believe Trump can win the General? I don't mean win it by some miracle convergence of a half dozen factors, but win it outright.

Trump was utterly ineffective against the establishment. That has been pointed out ad nauseum.

Secondly, he made a clown out of himself after the election. No one takes hime seriously.

Third, he'll be 78. Too old. He is going downhill fast, physically and mentally.

How many times do we have to have this conversation?

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Trump was utterly ineffective against the establishment. That has been pointed out ad nauseum.

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Do you think the FBI circulating a letter saying he was a Russian operative had anything to do with that? Who would you expect to align with him if they had read that letter?

Trump was sabotaged by our own government.

Zarathustra said:

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No one takes him seriously.

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Whether you like it or not, 10s of millions of people take him seriously...or at the very least, they favor him...

That's the reality...so I fail to see how trying to alienate and marginalize 10s of millions of voters is going to get your preferred choice elected...

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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Trump was utterly ineffective against the establishment. That has been pointed out ad nauseum.

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Do you think the FBI circulating a letter saying he was a Russian operative had anything to do with that? Who would you expect to align with him if they had read that letter?

Trump was sabotaged by our own government.

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And what did trump do about it? Launch nft cards?The person least concerned about it seems to be trump.

Keep voting for 80 year old billionaires and convincing yourself that it's 'anti-establishment'

"Lock her up.... "

Dude is a con artist

FL_Ag1998 said:

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Tea Party said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Yes.... Trump has really proven his ability to "blow up" down ballot votes. lol

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You miss the point. The vote is not FOR Trump or his abilities to do anyting really. It's a vote AGAINST the establishment.

The people voting AGAINST the establishment are the types that are willing to vote against the establishment incumbents down ballot.

The sheep in the general that vote for "whoever is the R" will gladly fall in line for the non-establishment types that make it out of the primary.

And to the poster above about my slightly to the right comment, had you read my entire post you would notice it was not in reference to DeSantis himself. He certainly is more conservative than most, however the down ballot R's are what would cripple him just like they crippled Trump. The overall effect is a slight pull to the right then the inevitable big pull left later if you keep playing the status quo game down ballot.

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So here's my first question before I respond further to your argument.

Do you truly believe Trump can win the General? I don't mean win it by some miracle convergence of a half dozen factors, but win it outright.

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Interesting that political discussion is shut down if it does not revolve around winning the next election....I won't bother bringing up the effects of voting for third party candidates down ballot and how that effects future donations and entrance in future debates.... Sorry if that came off crude. I'm cranky from our Q2 business cycle.

But regardless, yes I absolutely do believe that Trump can win the general. Do I think the chances are a certainty or even a strong favorability, absolutely not. But I feel the same way about DeSantis although I would venture he has a slight advantage to win the general for all the reasons I posted above. People like the status quo...

But on the flip side, if Trump loses and there are signs of large scale shenanigans like the last election (Russian dossier, ballot harvesting, pipe leaks, etc.), then maybe that will be enough to wake the sheeple up to start caring about how big and rogue our government has become. Again, this conversation stemmed from which candidate is best for the long-game.

FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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No one takes him seriously.

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Whether you like it or not, 10s of millions of people take him seriously...or at the very least, they favor him...

That's the reality...so I fail to see how trying to alienate and marginalize 10s of millions of voters is going to get your preferred choice elected...

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I don't know what to tell you. Hes acted like a clown since the election. He went from scorched earth against DeSantis which makes zero sense. If anyone is alienating voters it's trump..

Zarathustra said:

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FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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No one takes him seriously.

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Whether you like it or not, 10s of millions of people take him seriously...or at the very least, they favor him...

That's the reality...so I fail to see how trying to alienate and marginalize 10s of millions of voters is going to get your preferred choice elected...

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I don't know what to tell you. Hes acted like a clown since the election. He went from scorch Earth against DeSantis which makes zero sense. If anyone is alienating voters it's trump..

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You might be 100% correct...

Doesn't change the fact that 10s of million of Americans still support the man...

Call it the "Trump Voting Bloc" if you want, but whatever R name winds up at the top of the ballot next November, they are going to need the "Trump Voting Bloc" to get themselves elected...

That's a fact...

FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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No one takes him seriously.

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Whether you like it or not, 10s of millions of people take him seriously...or at the very least, they favor him...

That's the reality...so I fail to see how trying to alienate and marginalize 10s of millions of voters is going to get your preferred choice elected...

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Here's my question/point for you.

It seems you acknowledge Trump and his campaign/surrogates/etc play down in the mud. And it seems that has no effect on your support for him.

But you insist that Desantis supporters remain above any type of insult in their return fire. You insist that's a turnoff to you.

So, its that clear double standard which Desantis supporters have a problem with. If I'm not understanding your viewpoint please correct me.

He's a clown. My morals and principles ain't changing. I voted for him twice but will not vote for a clown that spends more time attacking conservatism than he does attacking democrats.

FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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No one takes him seriously.

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Whether you like it or not, 10s of millions of people take him seriously...or at the very least, they favor him...

That's the reality...so I fail to see how trying to alienate and marginalize 10s of millions of voters is going to get your preferred choice elected...

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I don't know what to tell you. Hes acted like a clown since the election. He went from scorch Earth against DeSantis which makes zero sense. If anyone is alienating voters it's trump..

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You might be 100% correct...

Doesn't change the fact that 10s of million of Americans still support the man...

Call it the "Trump Voting Bloc" if you want, but whatever R name winds up at the top of the ballot next November, they are going to need the "Trump Voting Bloc" to get themselves elected...

That's a fact...

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The more trump attacks DeSantis and every other republican and former member of his own administration, the smaller that voting block will be.

Zarathustra said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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Trump was utterly ineffective against the establishment. That has been pointed out ad nauseum.

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Do you think the FBI circulating a letter saying he was a Russian operative had anything to do with that? Who would you expect to align with him if they had read that letter?

Trump was sabotaged by our own government.

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And what did trump do about it? Launch nft cards?The person least concerned about it seems to be trump.

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What should he have done?

What part of government should he turn to for help? Hopefully you are beginning to grasp the effects the letter had on him and his ability to do anything.

Zarathustra said:

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FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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No one takes him seriously.

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Whether you like it or not, 10s of millions of people take him seriously...or at the very least, they favor him...

That's the reality...so I fail to see how trying to alienate and marginalize 10s of millions of voters is going to get your preferred choice elected...

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I don't know what to tell you. Hes acted like a clown since the election. He went from scorch Earth against DeSantis which makes zero sense. If anyone is alienating voters it's trump..

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You might be 100% correct...

Doesn't change the fact that 10s of million of Americans still support the man...

Call it the "Trump Voting Bloc" if you want, but whatever R name winds up at the top of the ballot next November, they are going to need the "Trump Voting Bloc" to get themselves elected...

That's a fact...

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The more trump attacks DeSantis and every other republican and former member of his own administration, the smaller that voting block will be.

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Perhaps...time will tell...

Right now, it seems the more the establishment tries to make up crimes to indict him with, the more entrenched his supporters become around him...

His polling went up after the last round of phony indictments...

This time next year, will his numbers have done a complete 180? It is absolutely possible...

But the inertia right now, indicates the opposite...

Time will tell...

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If anyone is alienating voters it's trump..

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There's at least 10 different names Trump supporters are called in this thread. All from your brethren.

and? So now you're afraid of mean tweets?

FL_Ag1998 said:

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FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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No one takes him seriously.

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Whether you like it or not, 10s of millions of people take him seriously...or at the very least, they favor him...

That's the reality...so I fail to see how trying to alienate and marginalize 10s of millions of voters is going to get your preferred choice elected...

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Here's my question/point for you.

It seems you acknowledge Trump and his campaign/surrogates/etc play down in the mud. And it seems that has no effect on your support for him.

But you insist that Desantis supporters remain above any type of insult in their return fire. You insist that's a turnoff to you.

So, its that clear double standard which Desantis supporters have a problem with. If I'm not understanding your viewpoint please correct me.

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I insist nothing more than to say that DeSantis supporters should be trying to draw-in the Trump Voting Bloc with things like, "this is how RD is like DJT and you can find common ground in RD's corner" as opposed to "oh you're a trumpian cultist and your thoughts and opinions don't mean ****, you brainwashed, orange-loving loser"...

For DeSantis to win, he needs the Trump Voting Bloc...I'd stop pissing on them because there are literally 10s of millions of them, and they WILL be voting...

Zarathustra said:

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and? So now you're afraid of mean tweets?

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These debates won't work if you can't answer honestly to the questions presented.

Very disappointed with the lack of traction so far for DeSantis. There is plenty of time, though.

DeSantis 2024