OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Ron DeSantis*** thread...

447,788 Views | 9101 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by BD88
aggie93
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Excellent interview with Shapiro. The key passage that EVERY Republican should listen to is about 8 minutes in. For 3 minutes he outlines his detailed strategy for how he is going to use the same things he did in Florida to get the vote out. Essentially get a large and highly organized team to go after low propensity voters using whatever legal means are available to get their votes and play the game the same way the Dems do. If you can get some of those things like Ballot Harvesting banned, great, but if not you play by those rules and do it better. Also you need a great legal team to fight and challenge.

I hope that every Republican replicates this mentality, it is the only way to win going forward.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggiehawg
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Quote:

Essentially get a large and highly organized team to go after low propensity voters using whatever legal means are available to get their votes and play the game the same way the Dems do.
You do realize that Trump's team did that in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan in 2016, right? Targeted disaffected voters?
Definitely Not A Cop
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Absolutely, and that was a big reason for him winning.

DeSantis' point is that the rules changed. He took advantage of the MIB rules in 2020 to great success. After he won again, he changed the rules back. Trump was telling people in 2020 that if they couldn't vote in person to not bother. And that definitely hamstrung him to a degree in certain states.
aggie93
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Essentially get a large and highly organized team to go after low propensity voters using whatever legal means are available to get their votes and play the game the same way the Dems do.
You do realize that Trump's team did that in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan in 2016, right? Targeted disaffected voters?
Sure, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion. DeSantis is going to have a massive paid staff directing a far more massive set of volunteers that are knocking on doors and explaining to every potential voter why they should vote for him and how to vote. He's not going to just show up and have a rally and hope people show up to vote later. There is also a very significant tech component in terms of how you target each group of voters in each state based on the laws of that state. That is what the Democrats do and that is what DeSantis has done in Florida and plans to do nationwide.

Having a superior message is great but you have to be organized and get those votes when it counts. Of course everyone wants the low propensity voters but the question is how you actually get them to vote by any legal means necessary.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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In the meantime the Trump campaign is using their time and tech on creating AI videos to make fun of DeSantis.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggiehawg
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Quote:

Sure, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion.
That would come as a surprise to the people actually doing it in those states. It was Ronna that kept calling Trump and asking he come back to Michigan over and over as she was seeing such a movement on the ground to justify his return visits.

I read both the GOP and the Dem postmortems on 2016 and both agreed on that.
aggie93
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DeSantis will never be able to connect with Middle Class voters the way Trump does.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
The Banned
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aggie93 said:

In the meantime the Trump campaign is using their time and tech on creating AI videos to make fun of DeSantis.





This is about as close as we can come to Idiocracy without quoting the movie. How in the hell did our country get this stupid
Showertime at the Bidens
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Sure, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion.
That would come as a surprise to the people actually doing it in those states. It was Ronna that kept calling Trump and asking he come back to Michigan over and over as she was seeing such a movement on the ground to justify his return visits.

I read both the GOP and the Dem postmortems on 2016 and both agreed on that.


Did he do anything besides hold rallies?
aggie93
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Is Trump actually going to campaign at all? How can he have literally nothing scheduled?


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
akm91
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AG
Elitist eating 4 Rivers BBQ!
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
aggiehawg
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Zarathustra said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Sure, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion.
That would come as a surprise to the people actually doing it in those states. It was Ronna that kept calling Trump and asking he come back to Michigan over and over as she was seeing such a movement on the ground to justify his return visits.

I read both the GOP and the Dem postmortems on 2016 and both agreed on that.


Did he do anything besides hold rallies?

Do you consider campaign appearances in HSs before 100-200 people a "rally"? Also remember he was in small venue appearances when he was often on TV as well. Joe and Mika in a diner somewhere and he would be there, etc.

Complete list of his apperances between 2015 and the 2016 general election.

LINK
aggie93
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aggiehawg said:

Zarathustra said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Sure, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion.
That would come as a surprise to the people actually doing it in those states. It was Ronna that kept calling Trump and asking he come back to Michigan over and over as she was seeing such a movement on the ground to justify his return visits.

I read both the GOP and the Dem postmortems on 2016 and both agreed on that.


Did he do anything besides hold rallies?

Do you consider campaign appearances in HSs before 100-200 people a "rally"? Also remember he was in small venue appearances when he was often on TV as well. Joe and Mika in a diner somewhere and he would be there, etc.

Complete list of his apperances between 2015 and the 2016 general election.

LINK
That's not an organized effort though like the Democrats operate. They go to every door and make sure to get every vote. Remember all the folks complaining about Beto calls? That's how they roll. They track people down and get their votes.

Trump showing up and speaking is great, DeSantis will do that too. That's just a starter. We have to get serious and organized or else we will be crushed. DeSantis has a serious plan with serious money behind it. If Trump can show more than promises that's great but I haven't seen anything of the like.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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AG
Don Jr being pretty rough on his Dad here!


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
ttu_85
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Essentially get a large and highly organized team to go after low propensity voters using whatever legal means are available to get their votes and play the game the same way the Dems do.
You do realize that Trump's team did that in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan in 2016, right? Targeted disaffected voters?
Well Trump seems to forgotten that. All he does these days is resort to low grade name calling. That dude is done and needs to go away so DeSantis can cleanup Washington and get this country righted.
aggiehawg
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ttu_85 said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Essentially get a large and highly organized team to go after low propensity voters using whatever legal means are available to get their votes and play the game the same way the Dems do.
You do realize that Trump's team did that in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan in 2016, right? Targeted disaffected voters?
Well Trump seems to forgotten that. All he does these days is resort to low grade name calling. That dude is done and needs to go away so DeSantis can cleanup Washington and get this country righted.
Just trying to keep the record straight as to what was done in 2016 and how it was so easily defeated in 2020. Because it will be easily defeated again in 2024, if more is not done.
Definitely Not A Cop
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And he doubles down on the lie.

It's a good thing for him he never saw the ads, or he would have been a trump supporter for the past 7 years. He really is lucky.
aggiehawg
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

And he doubles down on the lie.

It's a good thing for him he never saw the ads, or he would have been a trump supporter for the past 7 years. He really is lucky.
Too bad Mueller never found that. Nor Durham.
Old May Banker
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AG
Prior to his lie being deleted, he exposed himself to the ridicule he deserves with that "10,000,000 ads" BS.

lol
aggiehawg
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Quote:

They go to every door and make sure to get every vote. Remember all the folks complaining about Beto calls? That's how they roll. They track people down and get their votes.
The guys assigned to the Amish and Mennonite communities had to establish trust first and paid many many visits for example. There was considerable outrecah by the Trump campaign. Early in the primaries, Dana Perino asked the question of the still crowded field, "Who can deliver Pennsylvania? That's the only question."

I also want to clarify what my comment about Ronna was referring to. She was with the Michigan state GOP, not RNC chair in 2016.
AggieVictor10
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aggie93 said:

Don Jr being pretty rough on his Dad here!





Lmao.

No stam-i-na
hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. good times create weak men. and weak men create hard times.

less virtue signaling, more vice signaling.

Birds aren’t real
Lol,lmao
aggie93
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Sure, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion.
That would come as a surprise to the people actually doing it in those states. It was Ronna that kept calling Trump and asking he come back to Michigan over and over as she was seeing such a movement on the ground to justify his return visits.

I read both the GOP and the Dem postmortems on 2016 and both agreed on that.
In 2016 he had a decent ground game but he is spending nothing on it so far and has not shown any plan to do it other than saying it. He's way behind on fundraising and he's spending what he has attacking DeSantis and on his own legal fees. I want him to have a ground game but it seems like he is relying on the magic to just happen and for it to occur. A LOT of the folks who were key to his campaigns then are with DeSantis now who does have tremendous amounts of cash and a real plan.

BTW, Marc Elias is terrified of DeSantis:


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Showertime at the Bidens
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What a sh#t show


BigBrother
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AG
How it started:


How it's going:

LMCane
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For those wondering how DeSantis performed on the economy over the last 5 years

For verification, we turn to an unlikely source: PolitiFact.

To the question "How has Florida fared economically under DeSantis' watch?" this bane of the right replies perhaps grudgingly "On most key metrics examined, DeSantis has reason to tout success."

On employment, GDP, population growth and in-migration, and the cost of housing, Florida has been stellar during the DeSantis years.

"Overall, I would say that Gov. DeSantis has been a good steward," said William J. Luther, a Florida Atlantic University economist. "He inherited a well-performing state and has generally ensured that the state continues to work well for its residents."

Luther's faint praise DeSantis didn't mess up a good thing overlooks key science- and data-based decisions the governor made when hyperactive pandemic lockdowns were pummeling other states' economies.

To its credit, PolitiFact acknowledges as much:

A key turning point for DeSantis came during the coronavirus pandemic, when he decided that opening the state to economic activity was worth the health risk. … But the economic benefits were clear.

Florida not only returned to pre-COVID job totals nine months ahead of the nation as a whole, but the back-to-work wave also was broad-based. Construction barely took a hit. Manufacturing was back to level in 11 months. Leisure and hospitality, hammered by closings and social-distancing rules, returned to pre-pandemic levels by July 2022, nine months earlier than the rest of the country.

Better still, Florida's unemployment rate has tracked lower than the U.S. as a whole. As for GDP, here's PolitiFact:

Under DeSantis, another key measure gross domestic product, the sum total of all economic activity within the state has thrived. Adjusted for inflation, GDP has risen faster in Florida than it has for the nation as a whole. In fact, over time, Florida has been pulling away from the nation.

DeSantis hasn't done much about closing the gap between Florida's hourly wage earners and the national average (about 8%). Not that any one governor could. But there's something to be said for being paid as the time-honored joke goes in sunshine.

This is also a good time to mention that today DeSantis signed bills offering in the neighborhood of $2.7 billion in tax cuts for Florida residents.

There's permanent sales tax relief on baby and toddler necessities (strollers, cribs, diapers, baby wipes, and so on) and assorted sales tax holidays for purchasing school supplies and disaster preparedness items, as well as a Memorial Day-to-Labor Day hiatus on sales tax collections for recreational items and children's toys.
LMCane
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aggie93 said:

Is Trump actually going to campaign at all? How can he have literally nothing scheduled?



sometimes you think you are reading the Babylon Bee and can't believe it's reality

is it really true Trump HAS NO EVENTS PLANNED?!?!

DeSantis is going to run circles around the octogenarians!
LMCane
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aggie93 said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Essentially get a large and highly organized team to go after low propensity voters using whatever legal means are available to get their votes and play the game the same way the Dems do.
You do realize that Trump's team did that in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan in 2016, right? Targeted disaffected voters?
Sure, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion. DeSantis is going to have a massive paid staff directing a far more massive set of volunteers that are knocking on doors and explaining to every potential voter why they should vote for him and how to vote. He's not going to just show up and have a rally and hope people show up to vote later. There is also a very significant tech component in terms of how you target each group of voters in each state based on the laws of that state. That is what the Democrats do and that is what DeSantis has done in Florida and plans to do nationwide.

Having a superior message is great but you have to be organized and get those votes when it counts. Of course everyone wants the low propensity voters but the question is how you actually get them to vote by any legal means necessary.

well it probably didn't help that Trump's Campaign Manager was forced to quit in the middle of the election because of alcoholism and beating his wife

but Trump picks only the best people!
Showertime at the Bidens
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My Twitter observations this week.

There was an all out barrage of attacks by the trump team. The Desantis media team is out in full force squashing each and every one of them with facts. The beatdown is embarrassing since every attack I've seen is baseless and in many cases laughable.

Desantis is a sorros agent.
Desantis a rino
Florida is doing terrible
Desantis was pro lockdown
Desantis followed Fauci longer than Trump did
No one likes Desantis in Florida

I'm convinced trump has no campaign staff. I have yet to see any strategy for the election. He's trying to re-live 2016, Insult everyone else off the stage and rely on free media coverage of the reality show.

Definitely Not A Cop
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AG
His strategy worked when he was an underdog in a field of 20 (or whatever the number was that year) and needed media attention. He's not the underdog anymore.
BigBrother
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Zarathustra said:

My Twitter observations this week.

There was an all out barrage of attacks by the trump team. The Desantis media team is out in full force squashing each and every one of them with facts. The beatdown is embarrassing since every attack I've seen is baseless and in many cases laughable.

Desantis is a sorros agent. - Soros wanted Desantis because he believes Trump will go 3rd party and guarantee Biden.
Desantis a rino- Name me one action or piece of legislation that has not been true to conservatism. (conversation ends here every time).
Florida is doing terrible- You're an idiot. Nothing I say can pull the kool aid jug from your mouth. #cult45
Desantis was pro lockdown- He locked down early. Regretted. Removed his version of Faucci during a PC,and hired Ladapo.
Desantis followed Fauci longer than Trump did- He never closed schools, and Florida opened mid-2020-Trump gave Faucci and Birx a medal on his last week in office and still stands by his actions today.
No one likes Desantis in Florida- You're an idiot.

I'm convinced trump has no campaign staff. I have yet to see any strategy for the election. He's trying to re-live 2016, Insult everyone else off the stage and rely on free media coverage of the reality show.


Agreed! And moreover, there are quick and easy answers to each one!
Old May Banker
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As Trump's lead gets diminished - and eventually overtaken - he'll have no choice but to engage in debate. And, in what looks to be a much smaller field this go round, he'll look like the buffoon he is.
FL_Ag1998
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To the point about Desantis ordering lockdowns at the beginning of COVID, Florida is the third most populous state in the nation (i.e. lots of potential victims) with a huge senior citizen demographic (i.e. vulnerable pop) and a huge amount of tourists (i.e. extreme risk factors in spreading at that time an unknown disease). Of course he erred on the side of caution until he got all the facts and more was known about COVID. Any responsible leader should proceed in that manner.

As for Trump being forced to participate in the debates, I'm betting now that he doesn't. To think he would cave and debate is to ignore how Trump operates these days. He'll point to polls that show he's ahead (and there will always be a poll commissioned by a Trump-friendly or liberal leaning source showing he's in the lead) and use that as his excuse as to why he doesn't need to debate. He's already putting that out there.

And when he loses the primary he'll either run as a third-party candidate (40% chance) or simply tell all his supporters to abstain from voting in the General in protest of him being cheated out of the primary win (60% chance).
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
Prosperdick
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AG
FL_Ag1998 said:

To the point about Desantis ordering lockdowns at the beginning of COVID, Florida is the third most populous state in the nation (i.e. lots of potential victims) with a huge senior citizen demographic (i.e. vulnerable pop) and a huge amount of tourists (i.e. extreme risk factors in spreading at that time an unknown disease). Of course he erred on the side of caution until he got all the facts and more was known about COVID. Any responsible leader should proceed in that manner.

As for Trump being forced to participate in the debates, I'm betting now that he doesn't. To think he would cave and debate is to ignore how Trump operates these days. He'll point to polls that show he's ahead (and there will always be a poll commissioned by a Trump-friendly or liberal leaning source showing he's in the lead) and use that as his excuse as to why he doesn't need to debate. He's already putting that out there.

And when he loses the primary he'll either run as a third-party candidate (40% chance) or simply tell all his supporters to abstain from voting in the General in protest of him being cheated out of the primary win (60% chance).
Trump is a bully, always has been. Bullies normally don't like to go up against someone they think can beat them up.

Also, as much as the TDS crowd likes to say, Trump is definitely not stupid. Yes he's not a great extemporaneous speaker and certainly not a Rhodes scholar but he has a lot of street smarts and he knows where Ron could hurt him and win.

I think he will pretend that DeSantis is beneath him and not "worth the effort" and "my record speaks for itself" and continue to take pot shots at him from afar.

That strategy might work...it will be very interesting to follow.
LMCane
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when even Kari Lake's basement dwelling opponent debated her, and even Lurch debated Dr Oz after his stroke

it's going to be very hard for a FORMER PRESIDENT to refuse to debate anyone during a primary in which hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent

I don't think that will sit well with the electorate

if Trump is too scared to debate DeSantis- how is he going to be tough enough to "drain the swamp"?!?!

(since he didn't do it during his 4 years as the President)
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