akm91 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Virtually every "Ultra Rich" donor DeSantis has previously backed Trump. So they were good then but bad now?

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I never said they were bad. They are switching to someone that has PROVEN he can be bought with money.

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Where's the proof that DeSantis has been bought with money?

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You don't understand see, DeSantis was good until he started to prepare to challenge the holy savior, Trump. Once he dared challenge the holy one, he became bought and paid for by default.

akm91 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Virtually every "Ultra Rich" donor DeSantis has previously backed Trump. So they were good then but bad now?

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I never said they were bad. They are switching to someone that has PROVEN he can be bought with money.

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Where's the proof that DeSantis has been bought with money?

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In the AssP file. He just has to pull it out.

I love the defunding of NGOs. I'm curious how the taxing of remittances gets done.

Nice!

Science Denier has a problem with the Truth.

No...you are one of many who just hear what you want to hear as soon as someone say something "positive" about Trump...

What I am saying is...DeSantis and his supporters should be going after liberals right now and show some teeth...

But DeSantis supporters seem to get their jollies off sparring with Trump supporters when...at the end of the day...we are supposed to be on the same ****ing team...

We should be united in defeating the Left...

Let Trump run his mouth...let those of his supporters who want to run their mouths about DeSantis do it..

But as DeSantis and DeSantis supporters, use your energies to go after the REAL evil in this country...the Left and their ilk...

The "Trump" folks you are trading barbs with are on the fringe of the Trump Voting Bloc... I think you would find, if you would stop and listen to folks instead of just going "oh he said something positive about Trump, he's a brainwashed cultist", that most folks in the Trump Voting Bloc are there because he was a face for the idea of telling the establishment to **** off...it's not necessarily the man we love...it's the fact that someone finally had the balls to call the liberal spade a spade and stand up to liberal, globalist, environmentalist, social justice activist bull*****..

Would love nothing more than to see DeSantis start grabbing some headlines by taking similar stances...

Maybe he says it with "please" and "thank you"...whatever helps you sleep at night...but most folks in that Trump Voting Bloc want someone to stand up and start putting the Left in its place...whether he has orange skin or not...

FireAg said:

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No...you are one of many who just hear what you want to hear as soon as someone say something "positive" about Trump...

What I am saying is...DeSantis and his supporters should be going after liberals right now and show some teeth...

But DeSantis supporters seem to get their jollies off sparring with Trump supporters when...at the end of the day...we are supposed to be on the same ****ing team...

We should be united in defeating the Left...

Let Trump run his mouth...let those of his supporters who want to run their mouths about DeSantis do it..

But as DeSantis and DeSantis supporters, use your energies to go after the REAL evil in this country...the Left and their ilk...

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Trump is a liberal, so I agree, we should.


As for Desantis "going after liberals", that's all he has done. And won at it. Unlike Trump.

I kinda feel like you haven't been paying attention to what has been happening. Trump has been hammering at Desantis while Desantis has been hammering the left, not the other way around, and when we try to bring up the differences as to why the Desantis approach is better (doing what you want, apparently), the Trump supporters try the whole "Desantis is establishment", "He's bought off", blah blah blah crap parroting Trump's attacks.

If what you say is actually what you want, you would already have it.

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But as DeSantis and DeSantis supporters, use your energies to go after the REAL evil in this country...the Left and their ilk...

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DeSantis has been walking that walk his entire term as governor only to catch "friendly fire" from Trump and his minions.

akm91 said:

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But as DeSantis and DeSantis supporters, use your energies to go after the REAL evil in this country...the Left and their ilk...

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DeSantis has been walking that walk his entire term as governor only to catch "friendly fire" from Trump and his minions.

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100% agree with you...

I'm saying his supporters should be following suit and not engaging the fringe folks of the Trump Voting Bloc, or at the very least, not assume that the majority of the Trump Voting Bloc is a cultist if they say something they like about the man...

Some of y'all will pounce on anyone who doesn't go around screaming "**** Trump!" at the top of their lungs even though that person agrees with a lot of what your chosen candidate stands for...

THAT was my point...I'm not trying to push one guy or the other...I'm just pointing out for either guy to win, they will need votes from the supporters of the other...

And right now, based on the polls...DeSantis has a lot of catching up to do, so why pour piss and vinegar all over anyone who says anything positive about Trump?

FireAg said:

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No...you are one of many who just hear what you want to hear as soon as someone say something "positive" about Trump...

What I am saying is...DeSantis and his supporters should be going after liberals right now and show some teeth...

But DeSantis supporters seem to get their jollies off sparring with Trump supporters when...at the end of the day...we are supposed to be on the same ****ing team...

We should be united in defeating the Left...

Let Trump run his mouth...let those of his supporters who want to run their mouths about DeSantis do it..

But as DeSantis and DeSantis supporters, use your energies to go after the REAL evil in this country...the Left and their ilk...

The "Trump" folks you are trading barbs with are on the fringe of the Trump Voting Bloc... I think you would find, if you would stop and listen to folks instead of just going "oh he said something positive about Trump, he's a brainwashed cultist", that most folks in the Trump Voting Bloc are there because he was a face for the idea of telling the establishment to **** off...it's not necessarily the man we love...it's the fact that someone finally had the balls to call the liberal spade a spade and stand up to liberal, globalist, environmentalist, social justice activist bull*****..

Would love nothing more than to see DeSantis start grabbing some headlines by taking similar stances...

Maybe he says it with "please" and "thank you"...whatever helps you sleep at night...but most folks in that Trump Voting Bloc want someone to stand up and start putting the Left in its place...whether he has orange skin or not...

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Sorry, but this really doesn't make much sense. There are plenty of comments on here that have shown exactly HOW and WHEN desantis has "shown some teeth" in a far superior way than trump. Trump supporters respond with very little logic or reasoning, leading instead with insults and claims of "establishment" or "he can be bought off". Then desantis supporters lose their patience.

In my opinion you hold a stark double standard.

Um yeah.... DeSantis IS the one that's been going after the left while Trump is "swinging down at Ada, desanctimonious, milk toast", etc... nothing that you're saying makes any sense to folks that have been paying attention.

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DeSantis has made it clear he stands for X and if you want to support him great but he is going to stand for X.

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Did DeSantis think baseball players should NOT be part of the minimum wage protections when the voters approved it, or only when baseball gave him a million dollars THE VERY NEXT DAY after it was filed for them to get an exemption from this protection?

Was against the Florida consumers to have a choice on how they get their cars, or did he support a law banning consumer choice after local car dealers gave him millions of dollars?

I'm sure we will hear more examples of the price for DeSantis' vote if Trump becomes eliminated from the race.

This is correct. Trump goes out of his way to lie about DeSantis. DeSantis never talks about trump unless specifically asked, and usually gives a very broad answer, before tying it back to his fight with the left.

Trump supporters (and trolls pretending to be trump supporters, like SD) parrot the lies he spreads about DeSantis. DeSantis supporters prove they are lies. The trump people double down, and are then made fun of for continuing to argue lies that have been disproven. Then they accuse DeSantis supporters of being too mean, and that's why they can't support DeSantis, and the cycle continues.

Case in point, the post above has multiple arguments that have been disproven previously to the exact same poster. The poster used articles with talking points from establishment media, and when it was shown how they were false, he either refuses to admit he was wrong, lies, obfuscates and shifts goal posts.

He then claims that DeSantis is establishment using the establishment talking points to make his case.

Science Denier said:

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DeSantis has made it clear he stands for X and if you want to support him great but he is going to stand for X.

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Did DeSantis think baseball players should NOT be part of the minimum wage protections when the voters approved it, or only when baseball gave him a million dollars THE VERY NEXT DAY after it was filed for them to get an exemption from this protection?

Was against the Florida consumers to have a choice on how they get their cars, or did he support a law banning consumer choice after local car dealers gave him millions of dollars?

I'm sure we will hear more examples of the price for DeSantis' vote if Trump becomes eliminated from the race.

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This is exactly what people mean when they talk about you being a blatant lying troll. Did "baseball" give him a million dollars?

FireAg said:

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No...you are one of many who just hear what you want to hear as soon as someone say something "positive" about Trump...

What I am saying is...DeSantis and his supporters should be going after liberals right now and show some teeth...

But DeSantis supporters seem to get their jollies off sparring with Trump supporters when...at the end of the day...we are supposed to be on the same ****ing team...

We should be united in defeating the Left...

Let Trump run his mouth...let those of his supporters who want to run their mouths about DeSantis do it..

But as DeSantis and DeSantis supporters, use your energies to go after the REAL evil in this country...the Left and their ilk...

The "Trump" folks you are trading barbs with are on the fringe of the Trump Voting Bloc... I think you would find, if you would stop and listen to folks instead of just going "oh he said something positive about Trump, he's a brainwashed cultist", that most folks in the Trump Voting Bloc are there because he was a face for the idea of telling the establishment to **** off...it's not necessarily the man we love...it's the fact that someone finally had the balls to call the liberal spade a spade and stand up to liberal, globalist, environmentalist, social justice activist bull*****..

Would love nothing more than to see DeSantis start grabbing some headlines by taking similar stances...

Maybe he says it with "please" and "thank you"...whatever helps you sleep at night...but most folks in that Trump Voting Bloc want someone to stand up and start putting the Left in its place...whether he has orange skin or not...

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Sorry, but at this point its clear to everyone that the only person in this argument who's plugging their ears and only hearing what they want to hear is you.

And you're just as bad as you claim others are about making assumptions and lumping people together then judging them.

You also continue to prove in every post, including this one, that you have two standards...one for Desantis/Desantis followers and a much different one for Trump/Trump supporters. Deny, deflect, and ignore facts all all you want, but you've made it clear.

And don't try to deflect and say I'm REEEing and calling you a brainwashed Trumpist, because I haven't. I've simply pointed out the fallacies and holes in your arguments.

Phatbob said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Old May Banker said:

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lol... so RDS needs to make an ass of himself on social media and attack conservatives to "show some teeth"? Is that the message here?

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Lol exactly. Anyone still voting for trump in the primary is clearly not interested in someone who is focused on policy and can actually accomplish conservative goals, they just want a political pro wrestling show. DeSantis just needs to pull the votes from the non-trump candidates as they (hopefully) drop out and he'll be fine.

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I think once the debates come around, then difference will be so obvious even die-hard Trumpists will have a hard time justifying themselves

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Yep, which is why my guess is that trump runs and hides from the debates. They're guaranteed to expose him as the unserious clown that he is, this time in front of a national audience instead of the lemmings on truth social or at his rallies.

Old May Banker said:

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Um yeah.... DeSantis IS the one that's been going after the left while Trump is "swinging down at Ada, desanctimonious, milk toast", etc... nothing that you're saying makes any sense to folks that have been paying attention.

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And yet he still trails by 31 points in the national polling averages...

I know, I know...look at this state or that state...

Just saying the optics of it don't show the average Joe that DeSantis has much momentum behind him yet...

He could use some momentum...

The man has a point!

This is the Trump that needs to be seen more often, not the one with random quotes and weak nicknames on Truth.

President Trump: “you know, for a guy that got 80 million votes…nobody’s ever seen anyone wearing a Biden hat!” pic.twitter.com/PvaNHMax9r

— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) June 27, 2023

The problem is with the man at the top. His behavior is off the rails (at least what he says publicly). Of course, his supporters don't want to acknowledge he is off the rails, so they have to point to something else. If you, as a supporter of the candidate who has unjustifiable statements, are asked why would you support the candidate... and can only just double down on the ridiculous statements made by that candidate... the accusations of "cultist" seem justifiable, do you not agree? Or are we only allowed to pander to people who act like children on the right, and not point out that it is the same problem we fight on the left... I am not willing to win a pyrrhic victory where whoever is labeled the "left" loses, when the same problems infest the people who won.

FireAg said:

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Old May Banker said:

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Um yeah.... DeSantis IS the one that's been going after the left while Trump is "swinging down at Ada, desanctimonious, milk toast", etc... nothing that you're saying makes any sense to folks that have been paying attention.

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And yet he still trails by 31 points in the national polling averages...

I know, I know...look at this state or that state...

Just saying the optics of it don't show the average Joe that DeSantis has much momentum behind him yet...

He could use some momentum...

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Yes, but it's kind of like complaining about our recruiting class ranking in March. There is a full year before that is final, and typically A&M ends up at a much higher number by the next February than where they are the March before.

DeSantis has momentum. Right now it's reflected in his donor base and hiring ground teams. It will reflect in the polls as the primaries ramp up.

DeSantis trails Trump by ~30+ points in national polling averages, and Trump actually increased his numbers after the indictments...

DeSantis needs to grab a headline...he needs momentum...

I don't disagree... but it's a long way to super Tuesday. Trump was polling at about 5% this time in 2015 IIRC.

And none of that negates the double standard you seem to hold between the two men.

FireAg said:

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DeSantis trails Trump by ~30+ points in national polling averages, and Trump actually increased his numbers after the indictments...

DeSantis needs to grab a headline...he needs momentum...

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On that I agree. I just view the Desantis momentum as a slow but steady tide building up and eventually wiping out the competition. You want him to be an immediate tsunami wall of water.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Science Denier said:

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DeSantis has made it clear he stands for X and if you want to support him great but he is going to stand for X.

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Did DeSantis think baseball players should NOT be part of the minimum wage protections when the voters approved it, or only when baseball gave him a million dollars THE VERY NEXT DAY after it was filed for them to get an exemption from this protection?

Was against the Florida consumers to have a choice on how they get their cars, or did he support a law banning consumer choice after local car dealers gave him millions of dollars?

I'm sure we will hear more examples of the price for DeSantis' vote if Trump becomes eliminated from the race.

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This is exactly what people mean when they talk about you being a blatant lying troll. Did "baseball" give him a million dollars?

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Found it.
Warning, it's from the insanely left leaning Newsweek - may trigger some

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"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis just signed a bill sought by billionaire owners of Major League Baseball teams that cuts minor league baseball players off from the minimum wage," Garcia wrote.

"One day after this legislation was filed in Tallahassee, Joe Ricketts, the billionaire founder of TD Ameritrade whose kids own the Chicago Cubs, gave DeSantis a $1 million donation," he added.
Rickets donated $1 million to DeSantis' gubernatorial account in February, according to a report from Politico.

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Old May Banker said:

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I don't disagree... but it's a long way to super Tuesday. Trump was polling at about 5% this time in 2015 IIRC.

And none of that negates the double standard you seem to hold between the two men.

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It's not a double standard when you stop and realize that 10s of millions of people still side with Trump...

DeSantis, while he can absolutely do it, still has a lot of catch up to do, and every time Trump grabs a headline, good or bad, he maintains his lead...

The trick here is to get folks to see him grab a bad headline and actually lose support in the polls...any normal "politician" would have been sunk many times over with what they've thrown at Trump, and yet he still rises to the surface...

THAT is the inertia that Team DeSantis has to overcome...

I think DeSantis faces a bigger uphill battle than you realize...

The inertia behind Trump remains formidable...the Trump Voting Bloc has its fringe nuts, don't get me wrong, but his support increases every time the establishment tries to torpedo him...

Any other candidate would have long since been sunk...Trump doesn't fit that mold...

DeSantis has to overcome the inertia...and thus, he needs some momentum to do it...

Sure, it's something to overcome, but you don't overcome it by pandering to the emotions of those who are basing their support on those same emotions. You have to smack those people over the head with reason. I know, I am related to several and that is what has to happen. Point out the obvious issues and inconsistencies in their own support for something and at first, they lash out, but eventually they have to admit they were wrong. Either that, or you have a much more relaxing Thanksgiving next year

FireAg said:

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I think DeSantis faces a bigger uphill battle than you realize...

The inertia behind Trump remains formidable...the Trump Voting Bloc has its fringe nuts, don't get me wrong, but his support increases every time the establishment tries to torpedo him...

Any other candidate would have long since been sunk...Trump doesn't fit that mold...

DeSantis has to overcome the inertia...and thus, he needs some momentum to do it...

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I don't disagree...it's both sad and infuriating. This country is so stupid, it deserves what it gets. Passing up Desantis for Trump is INSANELY STUPID.

The stupidity of the right pales in comparison to that of the left, but we still have a lot of dumbasses apparently.

I'm sure your sense of intellectual superiority really helps your cause.

He doesn't seem to be claiming intellectually superiority, just emotional superiority.

I disagree just based on intuition.

The media only talk about Trump, so it's all the base hears. Every Democrat I talk to talks only about Trump. Low info republican voters naturally think trump's the only candidate. When we get to the primaries DeSantis is going to shine. Head-to-head, he beats Trump on Trump's own platform. And he can articulate that fact very well.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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I'm sure your sense of intellectual superiority really helps your cause.

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None involved. I was more illustrating a point. I am very patient and honestly get along with just about everyone who is not an a-hole (on the left and the right). The problem is both the left and right have a-hole problems. Anyone who can't have a discussion involving politics or religion without getting their panties in a wad really shouldn't be having those conversations, and those seem to be the only ones willing to talk right now because they've shouted everyone else out, and I'd like to change that.

Zarathustra said:

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I disagree just based on intuition.

The media only talk about Trump, so it's all the base hears. Every Democrat I talk to talks only about Trump. Low info republican voters naturally think trump's the only candidate. When we get to the primaries DeSantis is going to shine. Head-to-head, he beats Trump on Trump's own platform. And he can articulate that fact very well.

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I guess we will see...

I'm not convinced that he does, and I do worry that on a national scale, Trump may not be able to get over the hump (even without the D's cheating this time)...

The most important thing Rs need to do is rally behind the best guy...but if he can't get the momentum to propel him within the R electorate to the top, then it's a moot point...

Which brings me back to my original point...DeSantis folks would be wise to avoid arguing with the Trump fringe and painting everyone who thinks positively about at least something Trump as some whack-job cultist...

How are we supposed to do that, when Trump actually has a lot of liberal tendencies? If you attack the left, some of that will rub off on him. It doesn't do any good to not call a spade a spade. We are past the line in our country where we can just avoid the real issues so we can play team keepaway.

FireAg said:

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Zarathustra said:

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I disagree just based on intuition.

The media only talk about Trump, so it's all the base hears. Every Democrat I talk to talks only about Trump. Low info republican voters naturally think trump's the only candidate. When we get to the primaries DeSantis is going to shine. Head-to-head, he beats Trump on Trump's own platform. And he can articulate that fact very well.

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I guess we will see...

I'm not convinced that he does, and I do worry that on a national scale, Trump may not be able to get over the hump (even without the D's cheating this time)...

The most important thing Rs need to do is rally behind the best guy...but if he can't get the momentum to propel him within the R electorate to the top, then it's a moot point...

Which brings me back to my original point...DeSantis folks would be wise to avoid arguing with the Trump fringe and painting everyone who thinks positively about at least something Trump as some whack-job cultist...

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I'm not sure, that is going to happen.

1. Many of Trump supporters were democrat that turned to Trump for his America first policy. He campaigned extremely hard to message that he's bringing back jobs from overseas. He proved it and despite a massive campaign by the left, the Union vote was clearly in Trumps corner. Minorities also turned out for Trump better than any (R) candidate in the past. DeSantis is going to have to get this national support if he has a chance at beating the left.

2. Will DeSantis supporters turn to Trump? Alot of the DeSantis vote is triggered by Trump. You can see it on this thread. They can't stand him, no matter what he did while in office. Hell, DeSantis himself won't say even he will vote for Trump if he wins the nomination - From Politico. Jeb Bush and his familly took it so personally, they came up with the Lincoln Project when Trump beat him.