Owlagdad said:

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The problem with schools as rest of America is that nobody's yes means yes and nobody's no means no. Everything is in gray area, everything is maybe, until the bosses figure out what's best for them and not lose their job. Kids have learning disability? Good, put him in special ed, let him learn there. Parents should accept the "no" your kid can't be in same classes as the sled dogs. Parents raise hell, so special ed kid is put in regular class. Kid can't learn, teacher has to modify, sled dogs slow down. Same with language barriers. Learn the language, smart kids go with sled dogs. Otherwise stay in modified classes.
Another thought - do any of you believe in the gene pool? Would kids of low IQ parents have low IQ kids?
Who is doing all the breeding these days?
Not talking poor kids - they can and do overcome. But are all kids equal from birth? Does the slogan "all kids can learn" mean all kids can learn Calculus, or all kids can learn what they are capable of learning?

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Sir you are 100% correct and at the same time would be absolutely crucified at a school board meeting.

cevans_40 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Tea Party said:

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agracer said:

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Pookers said:

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Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.

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LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.

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Correlation, not causation.

And literacy in 1870 was a lot more prestigious back then than it is now. You are not comparing apples to apples.

A better example to illiteracy rate in 1870 would be the rate at which people today can accurately fill out their taxes, successfully operate MS Suite or equivalent, or navigate the internet without a search engine.

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The fact the reading was more prestigious in 1870 only speaks to how far along education has come. It IS apples to apples.

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Now do how many people can grow their own food now versus then. I mean heck, we are so much smarter now.

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You can blame capitalism for that one… Unless you want to go back to subsistence farming?

Everyone in Central office needs to teach at least one class. Including Supt. Let them remember how it is in the trenches. Not AP courses either. Teach a class that THEY tell teachers to make chicken salad out of chicken sheet. They could manage it, most find a way to stretch 4 hours of work into eight anyway.
Also turning an egotistical kid who has taught just three years and has lapped up the education jargon and is hired for his fresh outlook on education (full of bs) loose on experienced teachers is terrible, especially if they don't like pushback or questioning them. Kind of like a shave tail LT pissing all over a 30 year NCO. Let those folks teach a class too.
Lots of folks in administration with the so called right answers, but they hated teaching.
Can't say enough about VoEd .

I wouldn't. I'm Emperor, I want my subjects stupid and pacified.

hph6203 said:

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I wouldn't. I'm Emperor, I want my subjects stupid and pacified.

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Winner.

Privatization. Government is the most corrupt, inept and inefficient thing ever created.

Lots of good ideas here. Fixing society has to happen before you can "fix" education, but since the OP wanted to know how to fix education, you have some good ideas.

Among the best:

smaller schools. Mega-schools or even schools with more than about 750 kids, Schools the size of small towns offer more programs, but it comes with the cost of kids going to a school where they can live in anonymity.

Magnet schools- allow students to focus their educational track toward a future career.

Trades- make every student take a skill or trades class during high school.

Keep testing in some form in place because it allows schools to see how they're doing and where students need to improve, but do away with the "gotcha" aspect of testing and use it as the diagnostic tool it is supposed to be.

These few changes would address most of the other major issues faced by schools today.

cevans_40 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Tea Party said:

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agracer said:

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Pookers said:

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Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.

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LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.

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Correlation, not causation.

And literacy in 1870 was a lot more prestigious back then than it is now. You are not comparing apples to apples.

A better example to illiteracy rate in 1870 would be the rate at which people today can accurately fill out their taxes, successfully operate MS Suite or equivalent, or navigate the internet without a search engine.

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The fact the reading was more prestigious in 1870 only speaks to how far along education has come. It IS apples to apples.

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Now do how many people can grow their own food now versus then. I mean heck, we are so much smarter now.

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Don't forget those that can drive and fix a wagon. Those people were so much smarter than us.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Personal financial literacy is already a required course to earn a Texas high school diploma.

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It's like one chapter in Home EC. Im talking about an actual financial literacy course that teaches you basic money theory all the way to investing in stocks, bonds, and real estate.

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It's not a chapter in Home Economics. It's a half year course.

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I've got one that graduated in 21 and it was not required, and I have another about to graduate in 25 and still not required. It's offered and their dad - me - was the one that required they take it as an elective. Their graduation requirements did not. But glad it has been added for new freshman if that news is true

I do know that it's part of 7th and 8th grade math as well. It's not a single class, it's a unit of study within the curriculum.

Jeeper79 said:

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cevans_40 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Tea Party said:

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agracer said:

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Pookers said:

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Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.

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LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.

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Correlation, not causation.

And literacy in 1870 was a lot more prestigious back then than it is now. You are not comparing apples to apples.

A better example to illiteracy rate in 1870 would be the rate at which people today can accurately fill out their taxes, successfully operate MS Suite or equivalent, or navigate the internet without a search engine.

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The fact the reading was more prestigious in 1870 only speaks to how far along education has come. It IS apples to apples.

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Now do how many people can grow their own food now versus then. I mean heck, we are so much smarter now.

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You can blame capitalism for that one… Unless you want to go back to subsistence farming?

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Or sheer ignorance. This applies to so many different things that people used to do but no longer do today. Today people learn to read in the process of watching TV. That's not because we are so much better educated but rather we focus on different areas of knowledge.

> You are the Emperor of the US. How do you fix the education system?

I'm the emperor? I have way more work than just the education system

#1 I would execute all the commies that have infiltrated the government who are guilty of treason and sedition, and exile the rest who aided and abetted to Gitmo.

Ban mail in ballots, make IDs required to vote

Clean up voter registries

Ship OUT all the illegals to Isla de los Estados

Eject all senators and representatives from states who do not uphold the US Constitution and cut off funding to those states

Prosecute those in Congress who have broken laws (Pelosi, Schiff, Swallwell, etc)

Finish the wall

Open up drilling again

Purge DIE and Marxist crap from the military and rebuild

Create a new DOJ and FBI made up of patriots who along with the military will investigate and dismantle the old DOJ and FBI and prosecute whose who are guilty

Declare all debt owed to China settled in response to their viral attack on the world

Purge DIE crap and Marxists from schools

That's probably a good start

#1. No cell phones for kids while in school.

That would solve 3/4 of the problems.

Simple answer: PRIVATIZE IT

Big Money Aggie said:

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#1. No cell phones for kids while in school.

That would solve 3/4 of the problems.

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Not even close.

Yeah, the Australian system was quite a shock versus America but, it made a lot of sense after I understood their culture better.

In America, we only love the very best. Everything else gets left behind.
In Australia, everything and everybody is pretty average.
This means that nobody ever rises too high but also, nobody ever falls too low.
I was once asked why we allow people in America to be homeless. Yet on the other side of the coin, nobody ever asked me why we allow immigrants like Elon Musk to be successful.

The Australian system comes up short if you're trying to educate exceptional students and it also falls short if you're trying to educate dropkicks.

My youngest daughter has been volunteering at a new High School which does not have competitive sports. That is a terrible idea because she tells me that none of the kids have any competitive ability and can't take coaching at all.

Our culture has become so dependent on which victim group people belong to and what their excuse is for not achieving. In fact, there are now classes of citizens that are generationally on government assistance.

As we were starting to come out of Covid a little bit near the end of 2021, my neighbor invited me over for a BBQ with one of his friends. His friend was comparing the free and reduced breakfast and lunch that his kid got versus what he got when he was on the free and reduced lunch when he was a kid.

As he was telling me this, I had two thoughts which I didn't share with him:
1 - Why aren't you feeding your kid?
2 - Is this just an expectation that the school feeds your child?
After all, how hard is it to feed your kid a bowl of cereal and send them to school with a sandwich?

In Australia, if the kids wound up leaving their lunch at home, the school would provide them with a Vegemite sandwich. Wouldn't take too many Vegemite sandwiches before you remembered to bring your lunch.

Long rant but yeah - our "culture" needs major fixing.

Defund public education.

What do you do with the 8 year old that acts a fool, but have awful parents? Do you kick them out of school knowing they don't have enough knowledge to even get into the most basic blue collar trades without significant support moving forward?

What do you do with the 8 year old that is autistic, but is a tested genius and could probably graduate college today? Behavior problems out the wazoo, but do you just say no and walk away, hoping the parents have the ability to handle that kid with no services.

Education should move to a mastery based model, but I'm not sure any country/school quite does it that way. Get rid of K, 1, 2, 3. Break up K-8 writing, reading, and math into 8 core proficiencies (each may take 6 months to 2 years to master depending on the kid). Kids must be a master at one level before moving to the next. Kids are grouped together by skill, not age. Once kids turn 14 or master all the core proficiencies they go into a high school-college track or trades apprenticeship track or can just start working if that's what the family needs.

I don't think the US could really embrace something like that without also overhauling welfare, immigration, the debt, taxes, etc.

Straight up privatizing education is not the answer though unless there is even more government interference to keep people from profiting off education. Most public charter schools are quickly becoming a race to the bottom in deference to the CEO's bank account.

Lots of great ideas here. The best two themes are:

1) stop trying to put every kid on a college bound, white collar route. As early as 4th grade we should be grouping kids based on abilities and desire - and the trade training tracks should convert to paid apprenticeships far before 18 years old.

2) simply remove the kids that create discipline problems. School is a privilege. I'd mandate work camps for kids young than 16 that fail out or get kicked out of school/training.

the children yearn for the mines

You seemed to have missed my response to your snarky post earlier. Why wouldn't you educate kids to have as much potential to be successful in their environment as you can by requiring them to learn English before graduating?

HollywoodBQ said:

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dead said:

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I completely agree, how are people unable to speak the official language of the US?

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You meant this as a joke, right?

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Well, we should have an official language, it should be English, and children should be required to learn it. English is the single most important language one can know. It's the de facto international language of business. If we want all Americans to succeed.; how can we neglect this part of their education?

Easy, go back to the way it was prior to WW2. Get rid of school districts and state education agencies. Schools are locally controlled. Each school is responsible for generating their own funds. Schools can band together as they see fit.

You mean more than them receiving ESL classes for their entire primary and secondary schooling?

NonReg85 said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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dead said:

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I completely agree, how are people unable to speak the official language of the US?

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You meant this as a joke, right?

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Well, we should have an official language, it should be English, and children should be required to learn it. English is the single most important language one can know. It's the de facto international language of business. If we want all Americans to succeed.; how can we neglect this part of their education?

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Well, most schools attempt to help non-native speakers become English speakers.

Repeal Engal vs Vitale

Disband the DOE

Universal school choice

All funding must follow the individual students (vouchers)

For all you "defund the schools" / "privatize education" people, especially those with an "AG" tag next to your name, does your disdain for public education end at 12th grade?

AggieHusker said:

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For all you "defund the schools" / "privatize education" people, especially those with an "AG" tag next to your name, does your disdain for public education end at 12th grade?

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You see all types on here. Not Another Dime is pretty colloquialized on here regarding A&M.

However, it's a bit of a misnomer, as college isn't required for every citizen. As such, most of the people who come to A&M are at least attempting to participate in the education process.

If it was, then you would see many of the same issues you do in elementary and secondary education.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Big Money Aggie said:

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#1. No cell phones for kids while in school.

That would solve 3/4 of the problems.

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Not even close.

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Tell me how I know your school doesn't have a no phone policy

dead said:

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You mean more than them receiving ESL classes for their entire primary and secondary schooling?

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What about the ones who enter the system in the 10th or 11th grade and we go ahead and hand them that diploma without the ability to speak the language of our nation?

jopatura said:

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What do you do with the 8 year old that acts a fool, but have awful parents? Do you kick them out of school knowing they don't have enough knowledge to even get into the most basic blue collar trades without significant support moving forward?

What do you do with the 8 year old that is autistic, but is a tested genius and could probably graduate college today? Behavior problems out the wazoo, but do you just say no and walk away, hoping the parents have the ability to handle that kid with no services.

Education should move to a mastery based model, but I'm not sure any country/school quite does it that way. Get rid of K, 1, 2, 3. Break up K-8 writing, reading, and math into 8 core proficiencies (each may take 6 months to 2 years to master depending on the kid). Kids must be a master at one level before moving to the next. Kids are grouped together by skill, not age. Once kids turn 14 or master all the core proficiencies they go into a high school-college track or trades apprenticeship track or can just start working if that's what the family needs.

I don't think the US could really embrace something like that without also overhauling welfare, immigration, the debt, taxes, etc.

Straight up privatizing education is not the answer though unless there is even more government interference to keep people from profiting off education. Most public charter schools are quickly becoming a race to the bottom in deference to the CEO's bank account.

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Yea you kick them out. They are their parents responsibility now. I would be fine with allowing them to reapply in a year or two back into the system and starting back at the grade they were kicked out of. Or if they are old enough they can take their GED.

I fail to see why it is the citizenry's responsibility to essentially provide 8 months of day care for students who don't want to be there, and are making it impossible for teachers to educate others. You don't want to be there, fine, you are gone until you learn basic lessons of discipline.

Special Ed are special cases, they should be isolated from the rest of the school.

Your other ideas are solid.

jopatura said:

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What do you do with the 8 year old that acts a fool, but have awful parents? Do you kick them out of school knowing they don't have enough knowledge to even get into the most basic blue collar trades without significant support moving forward?

What do you do with the 8 year old that is autistic, but is a tested genius and could probably graduate college today? Behavior problems out the wazoo, but do you just say no and walk away, hoping the parents have the ability to handle that kid with no services.

Education should move to a mastery based model, but I'm not sure any country/school quite does it that way. Get rid of K, 1, 2, 3. Break up K-8 writing, reading, and math into 8 core proficiencies (each may take 6 months to 2 years to master depending on the kid). Kids must be a master at one level before moving to the next. Kids are grouped together by skill, not age. Once kids turn 14 or master all the core proficiencies they go into a high school-college track or trades apprenticeship track or can just start working if that's what the family needs.

I don't think the US could really embrace something like that without also overhauling welfare, immigration, the debt, taxes, etc.

Straight up privatizing education is not the answer though unless there is even more government interference to keep people from profiting off education. Most public charter schools are quickly becoming a race to the bottom in deference to the CEO's bank account.

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This is a very rare situation but honestly it is the best reason for keeping public education, public. These kids need a chance to be a functional part of society.


Unfortunately, the 8 year old turd is almost the norm now. The fact that his mother/father can simply make the school test him for some behavioral or learning disability (that never comes up negative, by the way) and get him on a modified or accommodated plan is an absolute joke and 99% of the reason we are where we are today. These kids know they will never receive failing grades because the paperwork and possible lawsuits that a teacher will have exposed themselves to is not worth it. Simply move them along and let them be someone else's problem.

There is no "language of our nation"

It's wild how you have a problem with what I said but not with the person who said kids should go to work camps if they fail out or have discipline issues.

dead said:

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You mean more than them receiving ESL classes for their entire primary and secondary schooling?

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Yes, if they can't speak English, they shouldn't be able to graduate. As stated previously.

Will you answer the question now?

What mastery level do you want them to have? I'll take CEFR, ACTFL or ILR levels.