You are the Emperor of the US. How do you fix the education system?

8,253 Views | 132 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by TxTarpon
cevans_40
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Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Personal financial literacy is already a required course to earn a Texas high school diploma.


It's like one chapter in Home EC. Im talking about an actual financial literacy course that teaches you basic money theory all the way to investing in stocks, bonds, and real estate.


It's not a chapter in Home Economics. It's a half year course.


As explained in Texas Administrative Code (TAC) 74.3. Description of a Required Secondary Curriculum, districts are required to offer both courses. However, districts with a total district-wide high school enrollment of fewer than 500 students can apply to the commissioner of education to offer either Economics with Emphasis on the Free Enterprise System and Its Benefits or Personal Financial Literacy and Economics.


So somewhere over half of the schools in the state are probably just teaching regular economics
Old May Banker
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I could theoretically teach kids all they'll ever need to know - from writing and math, to grammar and reading - in a vo-ed class.
Definitely Not A Cop
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Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

akm91 said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Personal financial literacy is already a required course to earn a Texas high school diploma.
It is? I don't remember my oldest taking a class on personal finance before graduating.


It's new. Looks like it started 2022 school year.


You can thank your emperor.


Get bent. You can thank my wife for lobbying the Texas Legislature on behalf of TEA to get it put into place.


That's awesome. Congrats to her for the achievement, and you for being married to someone who actually get things done instead of *****ing about it on the intranet
Hagen95
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Why, if I went around, sayin' I was an emperor, just 'cause some moistened dink had lubbed a scmitar at me, they'd put me away!
Adverse Event
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

akm91 said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Personal financial literacy is already a required course to earn a Texas high school diploma.
It is? I don't remember my oldest taking a class on personal finance before graduating.


It's new. Looks like it started 2022 school year.


You can thank your emperor.


Get bent. You can thank my wife for lobbying the Texas Legislature on behalf of TEA to get it put into place.


That's awesome. Congrats to her for the achievement, and you for being married to someone who actually get things done instead of *****ing about it on the intranet
What bitcoin’s detractors don’t understand is monetary economics, computer science, software engineering, network protocols, and electrical systems.

It ain't much, but it's honest Proof of Work.
cevans_40
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dead said:

ESL requirements are already in the Texas Education Code from K-12. How many classes are being taught in Spanish/Vietnamese/Hindi/etc. to students who aren't also learning English at the same time?
Its not that the classes aren't being taught in English, its that the kids don't have to speak English to graduate. Sorry but your team made it this way.
Hagen95
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Old May Banker said:

I could theoretically teach kids all they'll ever need to know - from writing and math, to grammar and reading - in a vo-ed class.
I'm pretty sure my vo ed teacher couldn't have taught me any math beyond algebra.
Ol_Ag_02
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

akm91 said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Personal financial literacy is already a required course to earn a Texas high school diploma.
It is? I don't remember my oldest taking a class on personal finance before graduating.


It's new. Looks like it started 2022 school year.


You can thank your emperor.


Get bent. You can thank my wife for lobbying the Texas Legislature on behalf of TEA to get it put into place.


That's awesome. Congrats to her for the achievement, and you for being married to someone who actually get things done instead of *****ing about it on the intranet


So you spout off inaccurate info, I provide you accurate info and you ***** about it. Seems on par for you.
Stmichael
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1) Lectures are no longer a teacher talking to 30-50 students who don't care and aren't paying attention. Put some money into producing high quality recorded lessons that teach the full curriculum. Do some research on how to optimize them about keeping student's attention and retention rates. Break them up with quizzes so they're participating and solidifying what they're being taught.

2) You either get it 100% right (for subjects where there is a right answer, at least) or you try again. No more "70% is good enough" BS. Pair that with this: You fail a question on the test, you watch the video about it to find out what you did wrong and try again. No more "hold them back a whole year because they failed a test" BS.

3) Kids advance at their own pace. Smart kids go on to more advanced things (or even just broader subjects) faster, while slow kids take the time they need to get it right.

What does all that do? It frees up most of the teachers work hours to do individual tutoring as needed. It reduces the time wasted for everyone and boosts quality of education. It gives people flexibility to learn at their own pace, and to also make adjustments around life rather than have life revolve around school.
Definitely Not A Cop
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Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

akm91 said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Personal financial literacy is already a required course to earn a Texas high school diploma.
It is? I don't remember my oldest taking a class on personal finance before graduating.


It's new. Looks like it started 2022 school year.


You can thank your emperor.


Get bent. You can thank my wife for lobbying the Texas Legislature on behalf of TEA to get it put into place.


That's awesome. Congrats to her for the achievement, and you for being married to someone who actually get things done instead of *****ing about it on the intranet


So you spout off inaccurate info, I provide you accurate info and you ***** about it. Seems on par for you.


I think you are misunderstanding me. I was attempting to make fun of myself as the one *****ing on the internet, not actually solving anything. I appreciate the correction.
Bexar Ag
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Ban private schools, pool all money from states and distribute it EQUALLY to public schools. Force parents to be involved
Ol_Ag_02
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

akm91 said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

Personal financial literacy is already a required course to earn a Texas high school diploma.
It is? I don't remember my oldest taking a class on personal finance before graduating.


It's new. Looks like it started 2022 school year.


You can thank your emperor.


Get bent. You can thank my wife for lobbying the Texas Legislature on behalf of TEA to get it put into place.


That's awesome. Congrats to her for the achievement, and you for being married to someone who actually get things done instead of *****ing about it on the intranet


So you spout off inaccurate info, I provide you accurate info and you ***** about it. Seems on par for you.


I think you are misunderstanding me. I was attempting to make fun of myself as the one *****ing on the internet, not actually solving anything. I appreciate the correction.


Sorry. Sarcasm meter broken. And I'm cranky from work. Carry on.
Old May Banker
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Hagen95 said:

Old May Banker said:

I could theoretically teach kids all they'll ever need to know - from writing and math, to grammar and reading - in a vo-ed class.
I'm pretty sure my vo ed teacher couldn't have taught me any math beyond algebra.


I get that... but for most kids today, basic math, fractions, decimals, how interest works, etc would be a drastic improvement. Especially in a setting with "real world" applications.

Teach a kid to develop a business model / game plan
Talk about what it cost
Learn how to build it
Work as a team
Discuss marketing
Learn to meet and speak to people
Go to market

Every step they're writing, learning math, reading, being forced to think... and in an environment that is more relatable than a simple desk and chalk board. And they will graduate with some ability to be productive.

Is it perfect for EVERY student... no way. But i'd guess over 70% would have an improved education for becoming a productive member of society.
Moral High Horse
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A lot of other things need to happen before education is "fixed":

1. Crack down on the inner city violence. Gonna see a lot more of police and military in these areas.
2. Get big Pharma to develop some cheap non addictive drugs that blasts the stuff the streets are peddling. I have faith you in pfizer. Go make that money for the USA and not the cartels.
3. Weaponize the border. There's a process to come here. Use it and wait your turn.
4. National Gender Registry. You are a boy or a girl. That's it. Illegal to feel like the opposite sex. Just for fun make being bisexual illegal as well. You can only pick one team. Registered with Government. Don't be greedy.


On to Education:

1. ***k the arts. Learn that ***t on your own time. Vocabulary, Math, Finance, Automotive mechanics, home education and diet (yes, learn to put the ***king fork down). All this would be k-8th.
2. High school can maybe get fancy with science, history and literature but I would say these high schools need to be specialized for course direction into college.
3. No more student loans. Sorry, that admin employee gravy train is over. Time to teach what matters and that can maybe...I don't know....make you economically viable!
4. No more college sports. Do a minor league system. IDGAF. Go to college to learn some ***t. That's the point.
5. Needs to be some oversight at the college as to what each major contributes financially to the students. Russian poetry departments need to be shut down along with Gay French History. If there is a need to society for a type of education department, fine, it can exist.

hail caesar

CheeseSndwch
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1. No more one size fits all (i.e. not everyone should go to college).
2. Evaluate kids from an early age to determine who is on the college track and who will be going into the trades.
3. Trade school starts in the 9th grade w/full time apprenticeships starting in the 12th grade.
Ag97
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It has to start with the parents and the changes recommended don't address the root issue of a lot of our education and societal problems in general.

You tell a lot of the lower economic demographic that their kids can't come to school any more because of behavior, the vast majority wouldn't have a problem with it. The only reason they make their kids go to school in the first place is they would be brought up on truancy charges if not. They don't care if their kids get an education. The only education they care about is how to work the government system and skate by, all the while blaming their problems on everyone else. It's systemic and comes from the social safety net by the government that doesn't allow for citizens to go hungry, homeless or without medical care unless it's that citizens choice.

Make adults be responsible for their own life choices and stop bailing them out and these problems will self correct for the most part. Charity from individuals and organizations instead of government beurocracy is way more efficient and manageable. Coming from a local level has way more accountability. The federal government shouldn't be in the business of charity except in cases of natural disasters like hurricanes, tornados, wild fires etc. The Feds should incentivize success not pay for failure.

Fix the root cause and the education system will correct itself for the most part. Lower socioeconomic populations don't prioritize education because they don't have to. I'm a firm believer that all citizens need access to education and it should be mandatory to a certain level and age because if you have bunch of citizens that can't read, write, do basic math or have a basic understanding of history, government, economics etc, you are in sense putting that population back to 3rd world standards and that creates problems for the rest of us citizens.
JFABNRGR
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Performance Based pay to teachers.
More freedom to teachers to educate in a manner the students become successful. (not political)
School choice.
Since everyone has a smart phone eliminate much of the memory stuff and focus on the following:

  • Face to face communication.
  • Problem solving 101 within a team.
  • Economics-Create, build, sell.
  • TRADES.

dmart90
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Moral High Horse said:

A lot of other things need to happen before education is "fixed":

1. Crack down on the inner city violence. Gonna see a lot more of police and military in these areas.
2. Get big Pharma to develop some cheap non addictive drugs that blasts the stuff the streets are peddling. I have faith you in pfizer. Go make that money for the USA and not the cartels.
3. Weaponize the border. There's a process to come here. Use it and wait your turn.
4. National Gender Registry. You are a boy or a girl. That's it. Illegal to feel like the opposite sex. Just for fun make being bisexual illegal as well. You can only pick one team. Registered with Government. Don't be greedy.


On to Education:

1. ***k the arts. Learn that ***t on your own time. Vocabulary, Math, Finance, Automotive mechanics, home education and diet (yes, learn to put the ***king fork down). All this would be k-8th.
2. High school can maybe get fancy with science, history and literature but I would say these high schools need to be specialized for course direction into college.
3. No more student loans. Sorry, that admin employee gravy train is over. Time to teach what matters and that can maybe...I don't know....make you economically viable!
4. No more college sports. Do a minor league system. IDGAF. Go to college to learn some ***t. That's the point.
5. Needs to be some oversight at the college as to what each major contributes financially to the students. Russian poetry departments need to be shut down along with Gay French History. If there is a need to society for a type of education department, fine, it can exist.

hail caesar


User name checks out
Win Smith
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The main thing is implementing consequences for students. If you can't pass or if you're a discipline problem, get removed.

I like the idea of removing multiple choice tests although that would have to be paired with the reduction of paperwork because it would make grading take so much longer. I'm sure an effective AI chatbot grading system could be implemented, making the elimination of multiple choice more feasible.

If these things were implemented, it would definitely improve the quality and prestige of a public school education.

Another idea I have had is reduce the amount of classes that student have to take. There are way too many classes that are a waste of time. However, you can't forget the reality that public school education is a free form of baby sitting and meals for poor kids. You may be a hard-core libertarian who says the public education system should go away but that's just not realistic. Not happening. If we reduce the amount of BS classes required, that time has to be filled with something to meet the babysitting requirement. To satisfy that requirement, EVERY single student should be required to be part of a UIL competition team or club. Instead of spending so much time in BS classes, students should spend several hours every day practicing with their team/club. Everyone knows athletes/band nerds/debate team members and every other student participating in a sport/club perform better in school. That's partially because they have an incentive to pass and partially because they feel a sense of community and belonging with the school. Those are good things. Sports weren't invented so kids can have fun. They were invented so young men could learn how to sacrifice and be reliable and be a contributing part of a team/society. As an additional bonus, if more time were spent during normal school hours practicing for UIL teams, that would mean less hours after school, which would mean less insane hours for coaches who get paid pennies for the extra hours they devote. I think it's a win-win situation.
HollywoodBQ
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Based on my time in Australia, here are a few things they did which are radically different than what we do here and I think make a lot of sense.

1 - Separate super competitive sports from schools. You can and should still have all play intramural level sports and compete against other schools but there's nowhere to really go after you win the equivalent of "District".

The side effect of this was, the club sports were hugely competitive.

And, for the "All Play" aspect of it, they would grade / classify the teams on ability so that everybody is playing at the appropriate level suited to their ability. The picked last kids play against other kids who were picked last.

In Australia, they couldn't even fathom something like Odessa Permian HS, or doing what they did in Waco in the late 1980s and combine 3 x 4A HS into a single 5A HS for Football.

2 - Smaller School Sizes. I graduated HS in a class of 350, wife graduated in a class of 750, one of my Corps buddies from Plano graduated with a class of 1100+.

In Australia, the typical school had about 100 students in each class year. The largest school I ever heard of (Riverview) had fewer than 200 in each class year. I think they might have had about 150 per year.

When you're in a smaller school, everybody knows who you are. You can't really be the loner / drifter who disappears into the background or joins the trench coat mafia.

3 - Trade School after Year 10. Things have changed but, the way it used to work was, attending school through Year 10 (10th Grade) was compulsory until you got your "School Certificate". After that, you could attend a vocational school but you did not have to complete Years 11 or 12.

Now I heard plenty of tradesmen complain about the quality of the Apprentices the schools were producing these days but, at least those kids had an avenue and the Journeymen had a source of help.

Side note - the Apprenticeship and Vocational training is really important when you live in a country that enforces Border Security. Without a ready source of cheap / unskilled / semi-skilled labor, tradesmen are charging top dollar.

4 - Make Year 12 the only year that matters. After the School Certificate in Year 10, students would go to Year 11 and 12 to earn their HSC (Higher School Certificate). This is where all the difficult classes were taught. You want Calculus, that's Year 12 Higher Level HSC Maths [sic].

One of the things I couldn't get my head around was that due to the way Australia does university admissions, they're all dependent on a series of tests at the end of Year 12. In Australian schools, it was common for us to see students in Years 10 or 11, not taking school seriously. But, in Year 12, the students had to knuckle down and spend about 8 months preparing for a comprehensive battery of tests which would determine there future.

The good news is that there is no such thing as Senioritis in Australia. None of the Year 12 students check out and don't do any work because they already got accepted to college 6+ months before they graduated HS.

The bad news is that their academic and life future is dependent on how well they do on these tests that are administered a few weeks prior to graduation. The stress these kids are under is incredible.

5 - Stack Rank Students and Schools. In Australia, the results of the HSC Tests would determine which college course students would be offered for admission at each university. This is called the ATAR or Australian Tertiary Admission Rank. It's a % where 99.95% is the maximum possible ATAR and you pretty much never hear of an ATAR lower than 85 or something like that.

The ATAR score gets ranked in two dimensions.
The first one is Class Rank. So how well did you do on your HSC exams versus everyone else at your school?
The second one is what they refer to as a "League Table" of how well did your school rank against other peer schools?

This League Table of schools incentivizes students to help their peers to achieve an overall higher rank for their school. The result is a much bigger focus on study groups and raising not just the top students but all students at the school.

Lastly on the ranking, the results are published far and wide so everybody knows who the top schools are and who the top students at each school were.

If you're in the top 10 academic kids in the state in let's say - Italian, or Chemistry, or Higher Level Maths, that's getting published in the paper for all to see. And if your school does well, everybody knows about it and tries to outperform your school next year.

6 - Eliminate Hyphens from Student Demographics - This is a larger society issue but in Australia, there are no hyphenated Australians, only Australians. As a result, you don't see a report on Whites versus Minorities, etc. You just see a report. If you look at Texas or California school report cards, you always see White, Black, Asian and usually with subdesignations like Filipino, or Mexican or Cuban, etc.

7 - School Funding - Not associated with Property Tax and a function of the State level government. As a result, school buildings would have a much longer life. And since school sports weren't a big thing, there weren't millions of booster club dollars being spent on stadiums.

Two other big differences that I'm still on the fence about:
8 - Selective (Magnet) Schools - Taking the top students out of the local school and bussing them cross town to attend school with other high achieving kids is probably good for the student but bad for the community.
The real down side is that this decision is made based upon score results from a test taken in Year 5 (5th Grade).

9 - School Uniforms - I don't know how much difference this makes but it was not acceptable to be out of uniform and the school uniform included a hat and usually the same backpack as everybody else.

There are a few other factors I could add but this is a good list to start with.

EDIT: Forgot a really big one

10 - Only Legal Residents can attend Public School and if you're on a Work Visa you have to pay - And here goes the story about why my kids wound up in Private Girls School. In Australia, to enrol your child in school, you must produce two pieces of documentation.
1 - Proof of Residence - where do you live so they can figure out if you're in the school's catchment area
2 - Proof of Legal Residency - do you have the right to be in the country and have your children attend public school. So basically, are you a citizen - Birth Certificate or a Permanent Resident - appropriate Visa information.
2a - if applicable such as if you're on a temporary work visa - you will need proof that you have filed with the government in Canberra and paid your $5,000 (AUD) per student per year to allow them to attend public school.

Since I had to pay $5,000 / year to send my kids to public school and they weren't eligible for the Selective School program, $15,000 / year sounded like a reasonable compromise. If we were Catholic, Catholic School for $6,000/yr would have been the best option but those spaces fill up fast.
Edit 2 - those are the 2008 prices. They'd be much higher now, I'm sure. Last school year I paid for in 2015 was over $30,000.
Get Off My Lawn
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A. Changing voting laws. Nothing matters if idiots will just unravel things again. Who gets to vote (for offices below my emperorship of course)? Net tax-paying adults (govt salary counting against the individual) who are either 18+yo w/ honorable military service or 25yo without service.
B. Change who gets to be elected. Term limits on all offices. Age limit of 70yo for all elected offices.
C. Eliminate birthright citizenship.
D. Completely rewrite the interstate commerce clause to revive the 10th amendment.
E. Shut down over 1/2 of the federal government, to include divesting all non-VA welfare and gutting the department of education to a role of gathering statistics and publishing of best practices.
F. MOAB Charles Schwab & the Soros family.
G. Drone a ****-ton of commies.
H. Invite Trudeau to a summit. Cage him.
I. Invade Mexico.
EclipseAg
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OP's suggestions are how schools used to operate. We don't need to reinvent the wheel; just go back to how things used to be done.
agracer
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Pookers said:

Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.
LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.
Rearview
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

Mandatory personal finance class your senior year.

So those on the vocational track don't get this? Perhaps it should be offered in 8th grade (and probably 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th)
Tea Party
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Hays Ag said:

Ban private schools, pool all money from states and distribute it EQUALLY to public schools. Force parents to be involved
What ?!?!

The topic was how would you FIX education, not how would you RUIN education...
Jeeper79
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dead said:

I completely agree, how are people unable to speak the official language of the US?
We don't have an official language in the US. You could successfully suggest that English is the unofficial language, but there is no official language.
TheEternalPessimist
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Dismantle public education in favor of private education.

Sell all public school property and facilities to private enterprises.

Let the government set recommended standards. Give them no authority to enforce them.

A combination of the free market solutions in coordination with for profit schools, private non-profit schools (religious and non-religious), charity, homeschooling and private co-ops will fill the gap.

Promptly return the money saved and the money raised by the selling of these public structures to the people who actually pay taxes.
Tea Party
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agracer said:

Pookers said:

Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.
LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.
Correlation, not causation.

And literacy in 1870 was a lot more prestigious back then than it is now. You are not comparing apples to apples.

A better example to illiteracy rate in 1870 would be the rate at which people today can accurately fill out their taxes, successfully operate MS Suite or equivalent, or navigate the internet without a search engine.
SunrayAg
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Make an education a responsibility, not a right.

You fail, you get kicked out.

You disrupt and disrespect, you get kicked out.

If school is not for you, try vocational school.

If vocational school is not for you, good luck carrying heavy stuff. Move on, and make room for someone who wants to learn.

Public education is the only place where the most resources are invested where there is the least chance of return.

Stop that, and start investing in achievement.
Jeeper79
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Tea Party said:

agracer said:

Pookers said:

Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.
LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.
Correlation, not causation.

And literacy in 1870 was a lot more prestigious back then than it is now. You are not comparing apples to apples.

A better example to illiteracy rate in 1870 would be the rate at which people today can accurately fill out their taxes, successfully operate MS Suite or equivalent, or navigate the internet without a search engine.
The fact the reading was more prestigious in 1870 only speaks to how far along education has come. It IS apples to apples.
Tea Party
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Jeeper79 said:

Tea Party said:

agracer said:

Pookers said:

Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.
LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.
Correlation, not causation.

And literacy in 1870 was a lot more prestigious back then than it is now. You are not comparing apples to apples.

A better example to illiteracy rate in 1870 would be the rate at which people today can accurately fill out their taxes, successfully operate MS Suite or equivalent, or navigate the internet without a search engine.
The fact the reading was more prestigious in 1870 only speaks to how far along education has come. It IS apples to apples.
Agreed, but your assumption is that public education is the reason for the gains in literacy, whereas I would say that it played a role, but we could be much better had public education not been such a boondoggle.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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If I'm emperor, I shut down anything related to federal government involvement in what should be an entirely local entity. What might work for students in Katy, Texas might not work for the kids in Gorman, Texas. Or Tallahassee, Florida.

But I don't stop there. Oh, not even close. There are so many areas in this country that I would change, I believe, for the better. Of course, the CMs and those who support the commies on the left would not believe my changes would be for the better, but I would tell them, Oh, who is Emperor here? That's right, ME.
cevans_40
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Old May Banker said:

Hagen95 said:

Old May Banker said:

I could theoretically teach kids all they'll ever need to know - from writing and math, to grammar and reading - in a vo-ed class.
I'm pretty sure my vo ed teacher couldn't have taught me any math beyond algebra.


I get that... but for most kids today, basic math, fractions, decimals, how interest works, etc would be a drastic improvement. Especially in a setting with "real world" applications.

Teach a kid to develop a business model / game plan
Talk about what it cost
Learn how to build it
Work as a team
Discuss marketing
Learn to meet and speak to people
Go to market

Every step they're writing, learning math, reading, being forced to think... and in an environment that is more relatable than a simple desk and chalk board. And they will graduate with some ability to be productive.

Is it perfect for EVERY student... no way. But i'd guess over 70% would have an improved education for becoming a productive member of society.

You sound like the people that teach pedagogy and methodology at the university level today. Its complete horse**** and a total waste of time for 60+% if the kids who have no desire to learn a damn thing. They will only do what they are forced to do and group work is an absolute disaster as the old 90-10 rule is in full effect. Start failing them and watch what happens. It is amazing how the unmotivated suddenly become motivated. But no, we can't do that anymore because everybody got their "disability" and God forbid they have to repeat a grade and that graduation rate take a hit.
cevans_40
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Jeeper79 said:

Tea Party said:

agracer said:

Pookers said:

Get rid of government education entirely. This nation was way better educated before the government got involved.
LOL, wut?

1870 20% Illiteracy Rate over all races in the US (blacks at 80%)
1920 6% and 20% respectively
1979 0.6% and 1.6% respectively.

The public education system in the US expanded in the early 1900's to what it is today.

It's not perfect, but this is a either a weak troll or just an ignorant thing to state.
Correlation, not causation.

And literacy in 1870 was a lot more prestigious back then than it is now. You are not comparing apples to apples.

A better example to illiteracy rate in 1870 would be the rate at which people today can accurately fill out their taxes, successfully operate MS Suite or equivalent, or navigate the internet without a search engine.
The fact the reading was more prestigious in 1870 only speaks to how far along education has come. It IS apples to apples.

Now do how many people can grow their own food now versus then. I mean heck, we are so much smarter now.
Owlagdad
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The problem with schools as rest of America is that nobody's yes means yes and nobody's no means no. Everything is in gray area, everything is maybe, until the bosses figure out what's best for them and not lose their job. Kids have learning disability? Good, put him in special ed, let him learn there. Parents should accept the "no" your kid can't be in same classes as the sled dogs. Parents raise hell, so special ed kid is put in regular class. Kid can't learn, teacher has to modify, sled dogs slow down. Same with language barriers. Learn the language, smart kids go with sled dogs. Otherwise stay in modified classes.
Another thought - do any of you believe in the gene pool? Would kids of low IQ parents have low IQ kids?
Who is doing all the breeding these days?
Not talking poor kids - they can and do overcome. But are all kids equal from birth? Does the slogan "all kids can learn" mean all kids can learn Calculus, or all kids can learn what they are capable of learning?

 
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