You claimed there was never a Nazi party in the US.1939 said:
Are you claiming that a few hundred Nazi sympathizers in the US in 1936-1940 equates to an American Nazi political party that had any legitimacy?
20,000 people in New York sounds serious.Rabid Cougar said:You claimed there was never a Nazi party in the US.1939 said:
Are you claiming that a few hundred Nazi sympathizers in the US in 1936-1940 equates to an American Nazi political party that had any legitimacy?
A tad more than a few hundred.
"On February 20, 1939, the Bund held an "Americanization" rally in New York's Madison Square Garden, denouncing Jewish conspiracies, President Roosevelt, and others. The rally, attended by 20,000 supporters and members, was protested by huge crowds of anti-Nazis, who were held back by 1,500 NYC police officers."
The Party fell apart as the shooting war started in 1939. The Federal government seized its assets and the FBI arrested their leader and deported him to Germany.
I would hazard guess the "huge crowd of anti-Nazis" were good American Communist.
Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The 'socialist' that Hitlers party used was in name only. He only used it to bring in the workers into his nationalist fold. In no way did they operate as socialists.. Hitler only paid lip service to this notion as a means to his end. This is a common misperception. They were nationalists.1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
That opposed capitalism. So national socialists.
Sounds like the GOP needs to be putting this into their ads. Let everyone know where their freedoms come from and who's trying to take them away.aggiez03 said:
Anything 'they' don't agree with is 'right wing'...
You haven't figured this out yet?
Religion - Right Wing
2nd Amendment - Right Wing
Free Speech - Right Wing
Common Sense - Right Wing
NEWSFLASH...TexAgs91 said:Sounds like the GOP needs to be putting this into their ads. Let everyone know where their freedoms come from and who's trying to take them away.aggiez03 said:
Anything 'they' don't agree with is 'right wing'...
You haven't figured this out yet?
Religion - Right Wing
2nd Amendment - Right Wing
Free Speech - Right Wing
Common Sense - Right Wing
Saying the USSR tried is laughable. They never got close. Neither did China or any other attempt at making a classless society. They just murdered the producers (capitalists) and made sure their generals/oligarchs with power shared the top class's spot. Germany was largely similar in that they basically made sure the war effort leaders were well fed and taken care of even down to the last days before Hitler's suicide.texagbeliever said:Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The 'socialist' that Hitlers party used was in name only. He only used it to bring in the workers into his nationalist fold. In no way did they operate as socialists.. Hitler only paid lip service to this notion as a means to his end. This is a common misperception. They were nationalists.1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
That opposed capitalism. So national socialists.
Nazi Germany was not socialist.
Socialist is the creation of classless society. Nazi Germany never tried to implement that. USSR did.
It is like this.
Bernie Sanders is the USSR type politician. Pushes for the goal of classless society.
Biden and democrats are Facists (Musolini or Hitler) types that want to slowly grow control of government over the capitalists in order to secure permanent power for themselves in what can be called a command or authoritarian style economy or a "managerial system" as Burnham would put it.
Really important point. Capitalism and socialism are not the only 2 types of economic systems. Just because one is not capitalist doesn't make it socialist.
We're a democratic republic, not democracy. Always have been.BluHorseShu said:Sure...like we are a democracy.Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The 'socialist' that Hitlers party used was in name only. He only used it to bring in the workers into his nationalist fold. In no way did they operate as socialists.. Hitler only paid lip service to this notion as a means to his end. This is a common misperception. They were nationalists.1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
That opposed capitalism. So national socialists.
About 75 million people do care. And many more would if they didn't get their "news" from Pravdaaggiez03 said:NEWSFLASH...TexAgs91 said:Sounds like the GOP needs to be putting this into their ads. Let everyone know where their freedoms come from and who's trying to take them away.aggiez03 said:
Anything 'they' don't agree with is 'right wing'...
You haven't figured this out yet?
Religion - Right Wing
2nd Amendment - Right Wing
Free Speech - Right Wing
Common Sense - Right Wing
THEY DON'T CARE.
Executive Orders by Trump - LITERALLY A NAZI
Exective Orders by Obama or Potato - Love Them, that will show Congress for not acting quickly!
Lockdowns, Required Masks, Required Vaccinations - Love them all
Republicans Wanting to Enforce Existing Laws on the books for 20+ years = NAZIS
Democrats Not Enforcing ANY Law - Good for America
Republicans Wanting to Enforce Existing Immigration Law = You guessed it, NAZIS
Democrats Not Enforcing ANY Immigration Law - Good for America (As long as it is only border states, we don't want those kind of people up here, we have our own issues, and don't really have room, but it is your problem, and you should deal with it, and be sympathetic to the mass invasion, theft, etc )
In Short, GOVERN ME HARDER DADDY!!!!
AgBQ-00 said:
The Commie-Nazi fight was a progressive sectarian fight. They had the same authoritarian bent and the same belief in total govt control of the economy, one based off of class warfare jealousy and dehumanization, the other based off of race warfare and dehumanization.
Tom Kazansky 2012 said:Saying the USSR tried is laughable. They never got close. Neither did China or any other attempt at making a classless society. They just murdered the producers (capitalists) and made sure their generals/oligarchs with power shared the top class's spot. Germany was largely similar in that they basically made sure the war effort leaders were well fed and taken care of even down to the last days before Hitler's suicide.texagbeliever said:Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The 'socialist' that Hitlers party used was in name only. He only used it to bring in the workers into his nationalist fold. In no way did they operate as socialists.. Hitler only paid lip service to this notion as a means to his end. This is a common misperception. They were nationalists.1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
That opposed capitalism. So national socialists.
Nazi Germany was not socialist.
Socialist is the creation of classless society. Nazi Germany never tried to implement that. USSR did.
It is like this.
Bernie Sanders is the USSR type politician. Pushes for the goal of classless society.
Biden and democrats are Facists (Musolini or Hitler) types that want to slowly grow control of government over the capitalists in order to secure permanent power for themselves in what can be called a command or authoritarian style economy or a "managerial system" as Burnham would put it.
Really important point. Capitalism and socialism are not the only 2 types of economic systems. Just because one is not capitalist doesn't make it socialist.
This is the same pattern in all socialist societies we have witnessed since the Bolsheviks took over in 1917. Classless society has always been "reward my friends that brought me to power and take from the ones producing at the time of my takeover".
1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
Rapier108 said:
The claim that the Nazis were "right wing" is one of the biggest lies ever sold.
They were left wing authoritarians.
And as we know in this country, the left always accuses the right of what they themselves are guilty of doing/being.
texagbeliever said:Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The 'socialist' that Hitlers party used was in name only. He only used it to bring in the workers into his nationalist fold. In no way did they operate as socialists.. Hitler only paid lip service to this notion as a means to his end. This is a common misperception. They were nationalists.1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
That opposed capitalism. So national socialists.
Nazi Germany was not socialist.
Socialist is the creation of classless society. Nazi Germany never tried to implement that. USSR did.
It is like this.
Bernie Sanders is the USSR type politician. Pushes for the goal of classless society.
Biden and democrats are Facists (Musolini or Hitler) types that want to slowly grow control of government over the capitalists in order to secure permanent power for themselves in what can be called a command or authoritarian style economy or a "managerial system" as Burnham would put it.
Really important point. Capitalism and socialism are not the only 2 types of economic systems. Just because one is not capitalist doesn't make it socialist.
The NAZI's were not a true socialists. They were more fascist than socialist...with a dictator. Your example of the banks still works for fascism, its just the people were in control, the ruling political party/state was (and ultimately their leader). The state takes absolute control of the resources. They may allow some private ownership..but only if it benefits the state. There few if any credible source that will argue that NAZIs were true socialists. They only had that term used in their 'National Socialist German Workers' Party'. Hitler was a master manipulator and new how to use this as propaganda to garner support. He had no intention of letting the people own anything of their own.Definitely Not A Cop said:
Not the same. We call ourselves a democratic republic. Our government is set up that way. Only the LIV's think we are actually a democracy.
In a similar vein, the Nazis called themselves national socialists. They set up their economy this way. They went after the banks immediately after securing power. They operated a command economy. The only people arguing that they weren't a command economy are the LIV's.
BluHorseShu said:The NAZI's were not a true socialists. They were more fascist than socialist...with a dictator. Your example of the banks still works for fascism, its just the people were in control, the ruling political party/state was (and ultimately their leader). The state takes absolute control of the resources. They may allow some private ownership..but only if it benefits the state. There few if any credible source that will argue that NAZIs were true socialists. They only had that term used in their 'National Socialist German Workers' Party'. Hitler was a master manipulator and new how to use this as propaganda to garner support. He had no intention of letting the people own anything of their own.Definitely Not A Cop said:
Not the same. We call ourselves a democratic republic. Our government is set up that way. Only the LIV's think we are actually a democracy.
In a similar vein, the Nazis called themselves national socialists. They set up their economy this way. They went after the banks immediately after securing power. They operated a command economy. The only people arguing that they weren't a command economy are the LIV's.
I was being facetious based on the response.DatTallArchitect said:We're a democratic republic, not democracy. Always have been.BluHorseShu said:Sure...like we are a democracy.Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The 'socialist' that Hitlers party used was in name only. He only used it to bring in the workers into his nationalist fold. In no way did they operate as socialists.. Hitler only paid lip service to this notion as a means to his end. This is a common misperception. They were nationalists.1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
That opposed capitalism. So national socialists.
Okay. Agree to disagree. Find me a credible source that claims the Nazi's were true socialists. The people owned nothing under Hitler.Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The NAZI's were not a true socialists. They were more fascist than socialist...with a dictator. Your example of the banks still works for fascism, its just the people were in control, the ruling political party/state was (and ultimately their leader). The state takes absolute control of the resources. They may allow some private ownership..but only if it benefits the state. There few if any credible source that will argue that NAZIs were true socialists. They only had that term used in their 'National Socialist German Workers' Party'. Hitler was a master manipulator and new how to use this as propaganda to garner support. He had no intention of letting the people own anything of their own.Definitely Not A Cop said:
Not the same. We call ourselves a democratic republic. Our government is set up that way. Only the LIV's think we are actually a democracy.
In a similar vein, the Nazis called themselves national socialists. They set up their economy this way. They went after the banks immediately after securing power. They operated a command economy. The only people arguing that they weren't a command economy are the LIV's.
This is incorrect. Socialism is an economic system, fascism is a political system that falls under socialism.
BluHorseShu said:Okay. Agree to disagree. Find me a credible source that claims the Nazi's were true socialists. The people owned nothing under Hitler.Definitely Not A Cop said:BluHorseShu said:The NAZI's were not a true socialists. They were more fascist than socialist...with a dictator. Your example of the banks still works for fascism, its just the people were in control, the ruling political party/state was (and ultimately their leader). The state takes absolute control of the resources. They may allow some private ownership..but only if it benefits the state. There few if any credible source that will argue that NAZIs were true socialists. They only had that term used in their 'National Socialist German Workers' Party'. Hitler was a master manipulator and new how to use this as propaganda to garner support. He had no intention of letting the people own anything of their own.Definitely Not A Cop said:
Not the same. We call ourselves a democratic republic. Our government is set up that way. Only the LIV's think we are actually a democracy.
In a similar vein, the Nazis called themselves national socialists. They set up their economy this way. They went after the banks immediately after securing power. They operated a command economy. The only people arguing that they weren't a command economy are the LIV's.
This is incorrect. Socialism is an economic system, fascism is a political system that falls under socialism.
You're conflating a lot here. Fascism is not socialism. There was no social ownership under the Nazi's. And you're correct, Hitler was anticapitalism if it didn't benefit the state. That does not automatically equal true socialism.Matt Hooper said:
Hitler was wildly anti-capitalist. His leftist authoritarianism (socialist/ fascist) was not lip-service in any way.
He was hyper-focused on the collective (German national collective) and subjected the individual and private industry to the national, authoritarian stated goals. Individuals or businesses that did not comply saw their ownerships and businesses removed from their possession and handed to new ownership that was compliant to the authoritarian directives.
Conservatism is first and foremost about limited government. It is antithetical authorization command and control. Right wing (in US terminology - associated with conservatism) had and has nothing to do with Fascism or Nazi-ism. They are incompatible.
1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
texagbeliever said:1939 said:
Where did all of the Nazi nonsense come from, especially calling them right wing.
First off, you can't be a Nazi. the Nazi's were a legit (in the sense that they were organized and recognized) political party in Germany in the 30's and 40's; it no longer exists, especially in America where the party never existed in the first place.
Second, they aren't right wing, they were socialists and were most definitely not supporters of Israel and the Jews. How is that "right wing"? Modern day American Democrats = Socialists who do no support Israel - Nazi's sound pretty left wing to me.
I think the reason they are called right wing is how they did their authortarian transition especially when compared to the USSR. (I dont like this intellectual shorthand personally).
Nazi Germany and USSR both ended up with the same style of government.
USSR path: capitalist -> social revolution that killed capitalists-> socialism (for a very brief time) -> authoritarian command economy
Nazi Path: capitalist -> capitalist becoming bureaucrats-> eventually enough power becomes bureaucratic that remaining capitalists were crushed -> authoritarian command economy.
So it could theoretically be described as right because the capitalists were involved in the movement from the first stage. It is a misrepresentation because the capitalists in the end either became bureaucrats or were eliminated. And generally right and capitalism go together.
yeah, there a lot more than a few hundred. They were also pretty popular in Hollywood. Henry Ford and Lindbergh also looked favorably on the Nazi's.Rabid Cougar said:You claimed there was never a Nazi party in the US.1939 said:
Are you claiming that a few hundred Nazi sympathizers in the US in 1936-1940 equates to an American Nazi political party that had any legitimacy?
A tad more than a few hundred.
"On February 20, 1939, the Bund held an "Americanization" rally in New York's Madison Square Garden, denouncing Jewish conspiracies, President Roosevelt, and others. The rally, attended by 20,000 supporters and members, was protested by huge crowds of anti-Nazis, who were held back by 1,500 NYC police officers."
The Party fell apart as the shooting war started in 1939. The Federal government seized its assets and the FBI arrested their leader and deported him to Germany.
I would hazard guess the "huge crowd of anti-Nazis" were good American Communist.
See Post #10 by Aggie1944. Probably the highest rated post ever on TA.Burrus86 said:
dead said:
Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be a democratic republic, right?
