PA24 said:

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Stuff is one of the reason we are heading to hell at warp speed.
. . .

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Worse than the apple in the garden of eden, and that was forbidden fruit!

The legal market in CA is struggling, at least all the small operators. Unless backed by silcon valley/ hollywood money, they are either selling gray market, or closing shop.

Now I'm confused…….. I thought D9 was purely weed derived with no chemical concentration like the D8 and D10 stuff that's trace in the actual plant, but legal in Texas

B-1 83 said:

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Now I'm confused…….. I thought D9 was purely weed derived with no chemical concentration like the D8 and D10 stuff that's trace in the actual plant, but legal in Texas

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D9 is the cannabanoid most associated with the 'real thing' … it can be derived the same (sativa/indica) and is as widely available via edibles in TX as 8. Can be delivered to your doorstep as easily as the others from credible quality sources. Hometown Hero offers a great selection.

california black market is directly the fault of the state!

It costs around $100,000 to get started in the business (licensing etc). The regulatory burdens are huge and the tax rate makes it completely untenable.

80% of what is grown in CA is illegal black/ gray market. It is grown primarily by mexican cartels and asian criminal syndicates. They damage the environment, use slave labor, steal resources and have brought the wholesale price down to $600/lb. They also have their ancillary businesses of sex trafficking, extortion, fentanyl and other narcotics and pretty much anything else they can make money at.

Anyone who went legit with CA is now having to shut their doors or sell in the gray market to make ends meet.

Wholesale prices in the midwest are a few times higher, so 80% of the black market stuff is being shipped out of state.

Some silicone valley / hollywood backed growers have super modern grow houses and are getting their costs down to $200/lb. This means they may put everyone out of business when it comes to weed, until they get bought up by big conglomerate companies (GE Cannabis etc).

From what I understand OR and WA are similar and NY probably will be. The black market is part of the free market and just reflects high artificial inputs or regulation. OK seems to have done it better, I know growers who left CA for OK just to grow.

I don't have a problem with decriminalizing it and allowing people to grow their own, if we actually enforce the laws that protect the rest of society. Any state that legalizes it for 21 and over in the privacy of your own home (or private property) always turns into everyone smokes (12 yr olds included) everywhere in public and many drive high; Enforcement of anything comes to a standstill.

Federally decriminalizing it won't solve much. The cartels and the major corporations will control the industry.

So the govt thought that after legalizing it that only people that were allowed to grow it would grow it?

Why do people keep electing people based on feelings instead of economic sensibilities?

Anything the government touches becomes a bureaucratic nightmare.

Weed wasn't legalized to make money for the government. That's the story they told us for the lotto as well.

Weed should be legal because I have the choice what I put in my body.

Green Dragon for President!!!

aggiedent said:

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Obviously this is an extremely small sample of just one couples experience, at one shop, but I'll say this. Every time my wife and I have flown into San Jose to go to the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro Am, we have stopped at Airfield Supply, right by the airport, to stock up on THC/CBD gummies.

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I like how you slid that nice respectable middle class credential to let us know you're not the average pothead. It's ok, you don't have anything to prove to me.

Quote:

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Weed wasn't legalized to make money for the government.

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Anything that's "legalized" is done so to make money for the government. All legalization does is create a new branch bureaucracy.

B-1 83 said:

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Now I'm confused…….. I thought D9 was purely weed derived with no chemical concentration like the D8 and D10 stuff that's trace in the actual plant, but legal in Texas

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Being confused Is a good thing. It means you're learning more than the average person on an exceptionally complex topic.

Cannabinoids can be derived from cannabis and other plants. These are called Phytocannabinoids.
They can also be created synthetically.
There's also methods to create cannabinoids from living organisms like bacteria.

The farm bill legalized all products derived from hemp, meaning that, yes, The things in TX you see marketed as d8/9/10-THC are supposed to be derived from hemp, making them "phytocannabinoids."

As a result, there is a greater risk of synthetic cannabinoids being present in products labeled as d8/9/10-THC in Texas, as cannabis is still illegal in the state. This makes it necessary for consumers to rely on unknown chemists to create a safe product, rather than using natural extraction methods.


The only known deaths from "THC" (that I am aware of) were from synthetically derived versions designed by Big Pharma. Buyer beware.

There has been a new trend of Chinese black market growers in the PNW. They are buying homes with shops or adding shop buildings, not bothering to pull permits (electrical) and building out huge grows.

Affects home market, electricity usage, avoids taxes and contributes to immigration issues all in one easily bustable problem.

https://www.klcc.org/crime-law-justice/2023-03-17/law-enforcement-agencies-bust-large-illegal-pot-operations-across-lane-county

Jack Boyett said:

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Farming is hard. Margins are slim. There was no way mj was going to be a lucrative business. Niche commodity that can be grown anywhere.

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If Texas does legalize, I hope that it will be legal for up to 10 pots to be grown in residences - think that would hurt the cartels most.
I do worry how children will fair around smoke/vapor but that is probably going to occur whether legal or not.

D-Fens said:

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You can already buy Detla 8 THC (from hemp) in flower, gummy, vape form almost everywhere. Why not make Delta 9 THC (from weed) legal also?

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Doesn't that make certain men rape certain women, according to the FedGov!?

Adverse Event said:

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Cannabinoids can be derived from cannabis and other plants. These are called Phytocannabinoids.
They can also be created synthetically.
There's also methods to create cannabinoids from living organisms like bacteria.

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WeedCovid?!

Is it too early to put out a welfare check on C@L Ag?

A thread like this is a bat signal for his "ban pot everywhere" schtick

Baron von Bulsh said:

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Is it too early to put out a welfare check on C@L Ag?

A thread like this is a bat signal for his "ban pot everywhere" schtick

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ban 2:30am welfare checks on C@LAg.

and pot.

everywhere.

C@LAg said:

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Baron von Bulsh said:

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Is it too early to put out a welfare check on C@L Ag?

A thread like this is a bat signal for his "ban pot everywhere" schtick

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ban 2:30am welfare checks on C@LAg.

and pot.

everywhere.

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Authored post at 230A, then accidentally knocked can of Bud Light off her nightstand which fell into ashtray holding 16 extinguished Newport cigarette butts.

Definitely agree with you that as soon as Federal legalization happens, big tobacco and/or big pharma will dominate the market and we'll probably wind up with a Coke v Pepsi situation.

jetch17 said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Now I'm confused…….. I thought D9 was purely weed derived with no chemical concentration like the D8 and D10 stuff that's trace in the actual plant, but legal in Texas

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D9 is the cannabanoid most associated with the 'real thing' … it can be derived the same (sativa/indica) and is as widely available via edibles in TX as 8. Can be delivered to your doorstep as easily as the others from credible quality sources. Hometown Hero offers a great selection.

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We get our from CBD Pros at the Allen store. There are also many, many vape shops here in the Sherman area that carry D9 gummies.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Definitely agree with you that as soon as Federal legalization happens, big tobacco and/or big pharma will dominate the market and we'll probably wind up with a Coke v Pepsi situation.

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It takes a significant amount of regulation and laws to create AHB v Millercoors or Coke v Pepsi. Prior to those global organizations controlling and shaping markets there were significant competitive environments, relatively low cost to entry.

Grow the world you wish to see, remaining passive allows the future monopolies (and the well-funded political apparti) to control the outcomes in lieu ofnyour participation.

Adverse Event said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Definitely agree with you that as soon as Federal legalization happens, big tobacco and/or big pharma will dominate the market and we'll probably wind up with a Coke v Pepsi situation.

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It takes a significant amount of regulation and laws to create AHB v Millercoors or Coke v Pepsi. Prior to those global organizations controlling and shaping markets there were significant competitive environments, relatively low cost to entry.

Grow the world you wish to see, remaining passive allows the future monopolies (and the well-funded political apparti) to control the outcomes in lieu ofnyour participation.

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The main factor in whether legal weed becomes Coke v Pepsi is what the consumer demands.

Beer is probably a better analogy in that I can get a 12 pack of Coors Light for $12 at my grocery store all day long +/- $1 depending on which grocery store I use.

But if I want a craft brew, it might be $5 - $8 per can for some locally brewed specialty beer.

There's a market niche for both but I know that there are a lot more sales of Coors Light vs. Bunny with a Chainsaw.
https://paperback.la/pub/bwac

In the same way, there are going to be a lot more Marlboro Green smokers than Babaji's Reserve Kush or Volkswagen Dave's Sherpa Blend.

The other thing that hasn't been discussed here is the absurdity of having cannabis as a schedule 1 drug when there is ample evidence of potential medicinal value. There is only one US lab where it is studied and that is on a small scale.

Comprehensive studies need to be done to explore the medicinal value.

The industry needs to come up with standardized testing and guidelines, or the fed will.

Currently you oftentimes don't know what you're getting. THC levels vary, as do the pesticides and other chemicals used. The growers that use "independent" labs aren't gonna pay for a lab that gives them negative results.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Adverse Event said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Definitely agree with you that as soon as Federal legalization happens, big tobacco and/or big pharma will dominate the market and we'll probably wind up with a Coke v Pepsi situation.

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It takes a significant amount of regulation and laws to create AHB v Millercoors or Coke v Pepsi. Prior to those global organizations controlling and shaping markets there were significant competitive environments, relatively low cost to entry.

Grow the world you wish to see, remaining passive allows the future monopolies (and the well-funded political apparti) to control the outcomes in lieu ofnyour participation.

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The main factor in whether legal weed becomes Coke v Pepsi is what the consumer demands.

Beer is probably a better analogy in that I can get a 12 pack of Coors Light for $12 at my grocery store all day long +/- $1 depending on which grocery store I use.

But if I want a craft brew, it might be $5 - $8 per can for some locally brewed specialty beer.

There's a market niche for both but I know that there are a lot more sales of Coors Light vs. Bunny with a Chainsaw.
https://paperback.la/pub/bwac

In the same way, there are going to be a lot more Marlboro Green smokers than Babaji's Reserve Kush or Volkswagen Dave's Sherpa Blend.

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Maybe if it becomes more mainstream we'll see some relaxation of the anti smoking regulations that have sprouted up everywhere.

InfantryAg said:

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The other thing that hasn't been discussed here is the absurdity of having cannabis as a schedule 1 drug when there is ample evidence of potential medicinal value. There is only one US lab where it is studied and that is on a small scale.

Comprehensive studies need to be done to explore the medicinal value.

The industry needs to come up with standardized testing and guidelines, or the fed will.

Currently you oftentimes don't know what you're getting. THC levels vary, as do the pesticides and other chemicals used. The growers that use "independent" labs aren't gonna pay for a lab that gives them negative results.

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I'm not a weed guy at all but... a couple of the comics I follow (or used to) are major potheads.

Joey Diaz and the late Ralphie May for example. Joey Diaz has talked a lot about how much stronger the weed, edibles, etc. are today than what they used to be. Of course there's the famous episode Ralphie May had where he got kicked out of the club he was headlining in Colorado because he took a bunch of edibles and was out of his mind. In case you don't know, Ralphie May weighed 400-500 lbs, so he must have taken a lot.

https://www.westword.com/news/was-ralphie-may-too-stoned-to-finish-comedy-show-broken-up-by-cops-6279118

HollywoodBQ said:

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InfantryAg said:

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The other thing that hasn't been discussed here is the absurdity of having cannabis as a schedule 1 drug when there is ample evidence of potential medicinal value. There is only one US lab where it is studied and that is on a small scale.

Comprehensive studies need to be done to explore the medicinal value.

The industry needs to come up with standardized testing and guidelines, or the fed will.

Currently you oftentimes don't know what you're getting. THC levels vary, as do the pesticides and other chemicals used. The growers that use "independent" labs aren't gonna pay for a lab that gives them negative results.

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I'm not a weed guy at all but... a couple of the comics I follow (or used to) are major potheads.

Joey Diaz and the late Ralphie May for example. Joey Diaz has talked a lot about how much stronger the weed, edibles, etc. are today than what they used to be. Of course there's the famous episode Ralphie May had where he got kicked out of the club he was headlining in Colorado because he took a bunch of edibles and was out of his mind. In case you don't know, Ralphie May weighed 400-500 lbs, so he must have taken a lot.

https://www.westword.com/news/was-ralphie-may-too-stoned-to-finish-comedy-show-broken-up-by-cops-6279118

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While weight does play a factor in cannabinoid consumption, not nearly as much as alcohol.

Cannabinoid receptors retreat and accept less stimulation over time and consumption habits. This is why tolerance breaks are another "best practice" to reset your receptors and decrease demand for "more cannabinoids for effects desired."

[INSERT: more you know.gif]

Another of the myriad reasons that cannabis and alcohol deserve completely different practices on consumption and regulation.

ToddyHill said:

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I don't buy the high tax comment at all. One gallon of 193 proof food grade Ethanol costs about $2.75 to $3.00 (less than a gallon of milk). The Federal excise tax on that gallon of alcohol is about $26. And that tax doesn't stop people from buying vodka, bourbon, etc.

To me this is all about the lack of demand.

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A huge part of the issues (I didn't read the article, so maybe it was discussed there) involve the startup costs to legally get into the marijuana growing business. Every .gov agency from local through county through state all want a cut for permits, etc. - you are well into the 6 figures into the hole before you ever plant a seed in the ground due to every layer of government you can think of requiring a fee for a permit or license.

So your startup costs are high even without infrastructure, seeds, equipment, etc.

There is also a huge (but getting smaller) difference in social acceptance of alcohol versus MJ use. Hell, just look at some of the first replies on this thread for perfect examples. People want to get drunk, always have, always will (alcohol is known to have been fermented thousands upon thousands of years ago) and are willing to pay for it. And the feds have figured out since the dawn of this country that a great way to get tax revenue is by taxing alcohol (see the Whiskey Rebellion for an example). Alcohol is also legal in all 50 states and is seen as perfectly fine to drink - which is why soccer moms pound wine like its going out of style. Most of them, while they would probably have little issue taking a hit off of a joint or popping a gummy at home when nobody is looking, won't do the same thing amongst their circle of friends out of fear one of them may gossip or whatever.

It's also a function of the fact that at first most of the only "legal" grows were in northern California and the PNW areas. Now with many other states decriminalizing it, the monopoly isn't there and a whole lot of other places can get it closer to home and cheaper, with less issues of crossing state lines for shipping and what not that do involve feds.

So you may not buy the tax component, but it absolutely plays a role. As does supply, shipping costs, etc.

Teslag said:

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Another thread where small government "conservatives" want to ban a ****ing plant

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I don't have a problem with weed. I have a problem with the deadbeats who abuse it. More specifically: my property tax dollars subsidizing their trash lifestyle.

Anecdotal evidence: my neighbor across the street can not get/keep a decent paying job, but has the state paying a large portion of his $2400 rent. This allows him to get his 3x a week delivery and continue to fail screenings.

"Don't hate tha playa, hate tha game."

Well that N=1 is compelling

doubledog said:

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Jack Boyett said:

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Farming is hard. Margins are slim. There was no way mj was going to be a lucrative business. Niche commodity that can be grown anywhere.

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It is a weed... Go to any trailer park.. Find the back door of a mobile home and look around.

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That is akin to saying that the corn the Aztecs grew is the same type we have today. Or that I should be able to go somewhere and just find some wheat to grind up to make bread and expect that the loaf comes out exactly like the Mrs. Baird's you pick up at HEB.

There is a world of difference in type and quality of plants that are cultivated in true farming operations versus the ones you'll find growing by the train tracks somewhere. Just like with pretty much any other agricultural crop there is you can think of.

The same principles of selective breeding, proper nutrients in the soil, right amount of water, etc. apply to marijuana as they do to corn, cucumbers, tomatoes, wheat, potatoes, etc.

agwrestler said:

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Teslag said:

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Another thread where small government "conservatives" want to ban a ****ing plant

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I don't have a problem with gasoline, electricity or water. I have a problem with the deadbeats who abuse it. More specifically: my property tax dollars subsidizing their trash lifestyle.

Anecdotal evidence: my neighbor across the street can not get/keep a decent paying job, but has the state paying a large portion of his $2400 rent. This allows him to get his utilities every day week delivery and continue to suck of the government teat fail screenings.

"Don't hate tha playa, hate tha game."

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Burdizzo said:

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tysker said:

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Our state and local governments are starved for money. They aren't legalizing these products due to a principled stance on the benefits of trade, freedom of choice, or bodily autonomy rather they need the tax revenue to continue their power play and meet their political ends

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Most governments aren't starved for money. They are burdened by too much expense and/or senseless debt. Idiot politicians, bureaucrats and appointees that are not accountable for their reckless and stupid spending, as well as a system that punishes fiscal responsibility and rewards spending as much as possible through increased budgets the following year.

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I'll compromise:

Legalize all drugs.
Piss test before you receive your monthly check.

I pass my screenings as a condition of employment and receipt of wages. Those requirements should be universal.