Unnamed sources and zero corroborating evidence is truth apparently if it's what you want to hear.

So when does a sovereign state cease to be sovereign?

Hate to tell you this, but the land of many sovereign nations was taken by invaders from other sovereign nations and assimilated into the sovereign territory.

I am sure we can get into all the nuanced nomenclature of sovereign lands, occupied territories, quasi states, federations, so on and so forth.

To keep it simple, let's just go with if cannot defend your borders / territories from aggressors, then you are no longer sovereign.

Baffles me people simply can wrap their heads around that concept and believe Ukraine has some inherent right to exist independently. They do NOT.

Neither does the US. We have to maintain a strong people and military to remain sovereign. Unfortunately, we are at out weakest point as a nation since maybe the early 1900's.

GAC06 said:

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Unnamed sources and zero corroborating evidence is truth apparently if it's what you want to hear.

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You can add in experience, intuition and good old fashion intelligence to know what the game is in Ukraine. It's all about the Benjamin's as AOC would say.

I can, but it's pretty clear you can't add those things.

I'll wait for evidence. You can quote AOC

fka ftc said:

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GAC06 said:

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Unnamed sources and zero corroborating evidence is truth apparently if it's what you want to hear.

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You can add in experience, intuition and good old fashion intelligence to know what the game is in Ukraine. It's all about the Benjamin's as AOC would say.

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A quote from you………it's all anyone on here needs to know about your opinion on the matter:

Quote:

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I remain very suspect of people who are all in for Ukraine. Cannot fathom wanting our dollars wasted and troops killed over an internal conflict within the USSR.

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The US doesn't actually exist either except for a bunch of primates (humanity writ large) agreeing that it does. All sovereignty is legal fiction based on the same logic. You figuring this out doesn't make you clever, nor is it grounds for TexAgs banning (your suggestion), and is still not a justification for Russian primates stealing Ukrainian primates land.

Admiral Adama said:

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The US doesn't actually exist either except for a bunch of primates (humanity writ large) agreeing that it does. All sovereignty is legal fiction based on the same logic. You figuring this out doesn't make you clever, nor is it grounds for TexAgs banning (your suggestion), and is still not a justification for Russian primates stealing Ukrainian primates land.

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Hey I mean what is a "country" anyways. Clearly borders aren't actually real anywhere in the world.

Good question. If one does not secure the border or demarcate with a wall, river, etc then is it a real border?

If I draw a line in my yard and tell you not to cross or there will be hell to pay, then never do anything when you cross it, then have I accomplished protecting the sovereign status of my lawn?

Seems there are quite a few folks around that believe life exists in some sort of bubble where lines on a map are always respected because that's just what good civilized folk do.

fka ftc said:

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GAC06 said:

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I guess the United States isn't a sovereign nation because we needed France's help against the British.

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Finally someone reaching a logical and correct conclusion. Blue star.

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So much face palm. All the face palm. Man, that's some next level stuff right there.

fka ftc said:

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Good question. If one does not secure the border or demarcate with a wall, river, etc then is it a real border?

If I draw a line in my yard and tell you not to cross or there will be hell to pay, then never do anything when you cross it, then have I accomplished protecting the sovereign status of my lawn?

Seems there are quite a few folks around that believe life exists in some sort of bubble where lines on a map are always respected because that's just what good civilized folk do.

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Wow………do we invade Canada, or do they invade us? That Montana border looks mighty inviting. But then again, we're civilized, unlike your former USSR idol with his "internal affair".

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Unfortunately, we are at out weakest point as a nation since maybe the early 1900's.

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Yet still far stronger than any nation on earth. The poorest European country is going toe to toe with one if the worlds military powers with our scraps

fka ftc said:

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Good question. If one does not secure the border or demarcate with a wall, river, etc then is it a real border?

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LOL yes. Next question.

GAC06 said:

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Unfathomable riches, meaning a fraction of our yearly defense spending.

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The kicker is that you don't really care about this topic. You're fine with corruption and theft as long as it facilitates your perspective's goals. 1% gets pocketed? Oh well. 5% gets pocketed? Cost of doing business. 25% disappears? Wish it were lower but gotta get them ivans!

Whether you can "fathom" $75,000,000,000.00+ (and climbing) or not isn't material. It's a ****load of American taxpayer money being handed to Ukrainian government officials. From a Ukrainian perspective, that's 1/3 of their annual GDP and 4x their tax revenue.

Those of us who don't perceive russia v former Soviet state as an existential threat to Americans have room to care about what's being stolen.

The point is that it's a small amount relative to our spending and to our defense spending. Also a lot of it is book values of equipment and munitions that were due to be expended or otherwise disposed.

What we are achieving in return is a pretty good investment as long as we don't cut and run.

Is there any foreign aid that you do support?

Monkeypoxfighter said:

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johnnyblaze36 said:

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Monkeypoxfighter said:

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No, no! It's all for show so he can ultimately "grift" millions while 100s of 1000s of his people die. He was in cahoots with Putin all along!

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Likely correct. Not another dime of my money needs to be sent to that corrupt ****er. You people are so naive.

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You literally believe Zelenskyy was willing to sacrifice his entire country and 100s of thousands of lives and livelihoods for cash?

Wow……………..just wow.

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YES. You Ukraine supporters are insane. There is hardly a more corrupt country on planet earth and Zelensky is the biggest grifter since Sam Bankman-Fried. How someone with the name "Monkeypoxfighter" does not grasp basic reasoning is not lost on me, though.

Yes, living in a world of instant financial transactions and instant visual communication: Worldwide. War is totally a failure in negotiation. Do not support failure.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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Monkeypoxfighter said:

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johnnyblaze36 said:

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Monkeypoxfighter said:

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No, no! It's all for show so he can ultimately "grift" millions while 100s of 1000s of his people die. He was in cahoots with Putin all along!

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Likely correct. Not another dime of my money needs to be sent to that corrupt ****er. You people are so naive.

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You literally believe Zelenskyy was willing to sacrifice his entire country and 100s of thousands of lives and livelihoods for cash?

Wow……………..just wow.

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YES. You Ukraine supporters are insane. There is hardly a more corrupt country on planet earth and Zelensky is the biggest grifter since Sam Bankman-Fried. How someone with the name "Monkeypoxfighter" does not grasp basic reasoning is not lost on me, though.

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I wouldn't worry about it. A lot of the this is just trolls who exclaim the wonderfulness of the ***** piano player and potus poopy pants at all times, but the truth is as Hersch reported; he was told to fire 15 of the most extreme/obvious corrupt folks this year but that was really just window dressing.

I doubt more than 20 percent of our munitions/funding actually goes for what it is 'intended' to do. But, hey, their 'corruption' score increased a point this year. Progress; they are now only the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia, which is seeking a merger to increase their score I guess.

Nortex, is there any foreign military aid that you do support?

I've stated elsewhere our foreign aid budget should be slashed well over 90 percent, not just military.

Structuring military aid to be wholly unaccountable/incapable of audit though is a bridge beyond what I even would have expected of a Biden plan, a couple years ago, even after he gifted the Taliban/China so much gear in Afghanistan. Color me skeptical this is an efficient/effective use of American money/weaponry:

۳۰۰ واسطه نقليه تخریب شده در قول اردو ۲۰۵ البدر ترميم گردید

به تعداد (۳۰۰) نوع واسطه نقليه نظامی که تخریب و غیر قابل استفاده بودند دوباره توسط تیم تخنیکی لوای ابودجانه قول اردوی البدر ترمیم و آماده استفاده گردیدند... pic.twitter.com/afTPg7pf7c

— د ملي دفاع وزارت - وزارت دفاع ملی (@MoDAfghanistan2) March 24, 2023

Not a single clown was fired/held responsible for that **** show.

But the war cheerleaders are no doubt proud of the stats; 'We're number 1, we're number 1!"

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Strong growth in Russian defense spending since the start of the war indicates that the country's domestic weapons manufacturers can rely on stable demand from the Russian state. But sanctions have meant they are already having difficulty completing these orders, and risk losing further international market share as their products increasingly flow to the Russian military.

The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) estimates that six countriesthe U.S., Russia, France, China, Germany, and Italywere responsible for 80 percent of global weapons exports from 2018 to 2022. The U.S. alone counted for 40 percent, while Russia was a distant second at 16 percent.

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The current Ukrainian government might be corrupt as they come but that doesn't mean that there is also not an unjust war of territorial aggression including widespread war crimes being conducted against that nation by Russia. Russia is at least as corrupt as Ukraine. It's how "business" gets done much of Asia, it's practically part of the common culture. The question is not the current government, it is the people and the nation. Do they at least get to vote for their own choice of corrupt leader, or have one installed by Putin? And the violence and war crimes done in the interim.

I see it as utterly bizarre to project disdain for some presumably corrupt political leaders into an entire people and nation as a reason to disregard their circumstance. That's like blaming all Republicans for Biden.

It's very arguable that the US's biggest export is security. For this, we receive all sorts of trade concessions in treaties, and relatively unfettered access to foreign markets. The problem is it is difficult to put a hard price on the costs and benefits, but having our dollar remain the primary global reserve currency as a result is incredibly important, as it makes the dollar much more stable than it otherwise would be.

MouthBQ98 said:

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That's like blaming all Republicans for Biden.

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Well they did nominate trump sooooooo…

shiftyandquick said:

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If our grandkids are speaking Russian, then we'll know that nortex was right. I have never met someone who loved USSR/Russia so much.

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It's not Russian our grandkids will be speaking…it is Chinese. But you stay focused on Ukraine just like Biden wants you to.

MouthBQ98 said:

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It's very arguable that the US's biggest export is security. For this, we receive all sorts of trade concessions in treaties, and relatively unfettered access to foreign markets. The problem is it is difficult to put a hard price on the costs and benefits, but having our dollar remain the primary global reserve currency as a result is incredibly important, as it makes the dollar much more stable than it otherwise would be.

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It's interesting you see the primacy of the dollar in trade/reserve currency as critical, since this war is strongly accelerating the demise of/undermining that.

I agree it is important but that's also why I think China-Biden wants/wanted this war so badly. We're using a ramp up in munitions/weaponry/defense spending to mask a recession for now, but the resultant stagflation/economic disaster is also a secondary cause of the currency's decline/loss of status.

Just to be clear for the class, you believe that this entire war was orchestrated from start until now by the president of the United States, China, Ukraine, and Russia?

Rip*91 said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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If our grandkids are speaking Russian, then we'll know that nortex was right. I have never met someone who loved USSR/Russia so much.

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It's not Russian our grandkids will be speaking…it is Chinese. But you stay focused on Ukraine just like Biden wants you to.

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Yet defending Taiwan will likely lead to thousands of Americans dying (source: defense expert, Michael Morrell's podcast Intelligence Matters - Morrell is former acting director of the CIA).

I've yet to hear a cogent explanation from MAGA about how defending Taiwan with thousands of Americans dying makes sense while aiding Ukraine with no loss of American lives does not.

Fun fact, they will support or defend our involvement in a possible Taiwan war depending on who is president.

Teslag said:

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Fun fact, they will support or defend our involvement in a possible Taiwan war depending on who is president.

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I'm sorry dude. I can't take anything you say serious. Your support of the Covid shot told me all I need to know about you.

Teslag said:

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Fun fact, they will support or defend our involvement in a possible Taiwan war depending on who is president.

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Correct, they wait for their marching orders, whether to support or not.

Actually our lavish domestic spending is strongly accelerating the demise of the dollar by multiples of an order of magnitude over what we have spent in Ukraine.

shiftyandquick said:

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Teslag said:

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Fun fact, they will support or defend our involvement in a possible Taiwan war depending on who is president.

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Correct, they wait for their marching orders, whether to support or not.

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Agreed. Though, Nortex would probably still get his posts from the Russian version of ChatGPT.

Teslag said:

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Fun fact, they will support or defend our involvement in a possible Taiwan war depending on who is president.

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Taiwan is not the same as Ukraine. This strawman is beyond stupid. Also Russia is way less of a threat than China.

I didn't see you advocating for USA to intervene for Hong Kong's freedom when China crushed them.

If someone had a degree in being wrong on every political take, that person just might be you.