NPH- said:

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I kindly request that our ghost moderator consider deleting this thread & banning this "rookie" user.

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I will go on record as agreeing with the OP. I too grew up under the cold war and came to believe killing Communists is generally a good thing. Russian communists, Chinese communists, Vietnamese, Korean, Cuban etc. are the enemy, then now and into the future. The largest component of our aid is weapons and training. Those are a net zero cost to me. The hardware was sitting idle and we have not drawn down supplies of critical defense equipment that would be needed in any foreseeable future near term conflict. The training we are giving, and the resulting intelligence we are receiving should be giving us a much better idea of our enemy's capabilities than the wasteful wars of the Clinton/Bush the elder and lesser/Obama/Trump/Biden administrations.

The canard of "we should be doing XYZ instead" is a false dichotomy. There is plenty of money for border protection, veteran care and other Constitutionally Allowable activity. Instead we waste money forgiving people 's debts that they freely entered in to, promising a free and risk free existence to exercise "rights" that are created out of thin air and paying for large segments of our society to sit on their collective asses and vote for more free stuff and reparations.

Finally, and this is a personal belief that I know not everyone agrees with, but I believe that genocide, real genocide not the fake treatment yelled out by the flag people, should be opposed wherever it rears its despicable head. And if you do not believe that Ukrainians have been the victim of systemic genocide then you have your head up the putinistas rear end there is no hope for you.

Deus vult! Amen.

Demosthenes81 said:

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NPH- said:

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I kindly request that our ghost moderator consider deleting this thread & banning this "rookie" user.

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I will go on record as agreeing with the OP. I too grew up under the cold war and came to believe killing Communists is generally a good thing. Russian communists, Chinese communists, Vietnamese, Korean, Cuban etc. are the enemy, then now and into the future. The largest component of our aid is weapons and training. Those are a net zero cost to me. The hardware was sitting idle and we have not drawn down supplies of critical defense equipment that would be needed in any foreseeable future near term conflict. The training we are giving, and the resulting intelligence we are receiving should be giving us a much better idea of our enemy's capabilities than the wasteful wars of the Clinton/Bush the elder and lesser/Obama/Trump/Biden administrations.

The canard of "we should be doing XYZ instead" is a false dichotomy. There is plenty of money for border protection, veteran care and other Constitutionally Allowable activity. Instead we waste money forgiving people 's debts that they freely entered in to, promising a free and risk free existence to exercise "rights" that are created out of thin air and paying for large segments of our society to sit on their collective asses and vote for more free stuff and reparations.

Finally, and this is a personal belief that I know not everyone agrees with, but I believe that genocide, real genocide not the fake treatment yelled out by the flag people, should be opposed wherever it rears its despicable head. And if you do not believe that Ukrainians have been the victim of systemic genocide then you have your head up the putinistas rear end there is no hope for you.

Deus vult! Amen.

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did chatgpt help you with this?

NPH- said:

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Demosthenes81 said:

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NPH- said:

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I kindly request that our ghost moderator consider deleting this thread & banning this "rookie" user.

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I will go on record as agreeing with the OP. I too grew up under the cold war and came to believe killing Communists is generally a good thing. Russian communists, Chinese communists, Vietnamese, Korean, Cuban etc. are the enemy, then now and into the future. The largest component of our aid is weapons and training. Those are a net zero cost to me. The hardware was sitting idle and we have not drawn down supplies of critical defense equipment that would be needed in any foreseeable future near term conflict. The training we are giving, and the resulting intelligence we are receiving should be giving us a much better idea of our enemy's capabilities than the wasteful wars of the Clinton/Bush the elder and lesser/Obama/Trump/Biden administrations.

The canard of "we should be doing XYZ instead" is a false dichotomy. There is plenty of money for border protection, veteran care and other Constitutionally Allowable activity. Instead we waste money forgiving people 's debts that they freely entered in to, promising a free and risk free existence to exercise "rights" that are created out of thin air and paying for large segments of our society to sit on their collective asses and vote for more free stuff and reparations.

Finally, and this is a personal belief that I know not everyone agrees with, but I believe that genocide, real genocide not the fake treatment yelled out by the flag people, should be opposed wherever it rears its despicable head. And if you do not believe that Ukrainians have been the victim of systemic genocide then you have your head up the putinistas rear end there is no hope for you.

Deus vult! Amen.

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did chatgpt help you with this?

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No I have the privilege of having a History and Political Science degree from A&M from a time when it produced quality graduates.

oh no said:

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Russia is not USSR and they aren't communist. Today's democrats are more communist, so if you want to fight communism, there's a much more important battle being waged against America here at home.

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Which was the point of my second paragraph. And if you think there is much difference between Putin and Stalin you are mistaken. The labels change, the people and authoritarianism doesn't.

plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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I'm gonna need you to take some remedial history classes to learn why the Cold War was "cold." Faux nostalgia is a pretty terrible reason to start another world war.

And I can't help being astounded whenever any American adult who lived through the last years can somehow feign enthusiasm for sending American soldiers off on more foreign adventures in poorly defined conflicts.


I'm really beginning to wonder how much money is being spent on domestic propaganda efforts to stoke public support for our latest defense contractor welfare program. I have a feeling message boards will be seeing more rookies signing up to push this, like we see during election seasons.

Demosthenes81 said:

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The hardware was sitting idle and we have not drawn down supplies of critical defense equipment that would be needed in any foreseeable future near term conflict.

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Biden's Secretary of the Navy disagrees with this statement.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-run-out-weapons-ukraine-navy-secretary-1773120

we have too many troll/sock feeders on here

Demosthenes81 said:

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doubledog said:

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American solders dying in someone else's war. Nothing new to see here.

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No Americans are dying in this war, except for those who volunteered to serve under Ukraine.

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I have a buddy that is a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army that is about to be deployed to Poland/Ukraine. Along with a lot of other boots on the ground. This is after he has done 1 tour in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan and was told his deployments were done. He is slated to retire in the next couple of years after putting in over 20 years.

We have boots on the ground over there and it will continue to increase in number and at some point one of our boys in uniform will be killed in a war that we have absolutely zero reason to be involved in outside of attempting to negotiate a peace or cease fire agreement.

meanwhile, Biden is proposing to open up Obamacare to illegals now. Because the southern border is apparently not an issue or something.

From 2001-2021 we spent an estimated $8 trillion in Afghanistan and actually HAD troops dying and fighting over there.

This Ukraine thing is a fraction of the cost compared to Afghanistan with none of our troops actually fighting. Taking a bite out of the Russians. Do posters here really care that much? I don't remember daily threads on here 2016-2020 complaining about Afghanistan costs even though that effort had long gone past the point of justifying us still being over there.

Pumpkinhead said:

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From 2001-2021 we spent an estimated $8 trillion in Afghanistan and actually HAD troops dying and fighting over there.

This Ukraine thing is a fraction of the cost compared to Afghanistan with none of our troops actually fighting. Taking a bite out of the Russians. Do posters here really care that much? I don't remember daily threads on here 2016-2020 complaining about Afghanistan costs even though that effort had long gone past the point of justifying us still being over there.

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There were plenty of threads on the cost of the wars, especially as they drug into the second decade of fighting.

People appear to care more about Ukraine because 1) after 20+ years of fighting, the populace is weary of it and doesn't want to get engaged in a conflict that we have no business being engaged in, 2) the politics around this one are sketchy at best given the fact that Biden doesn't even hide the fact that he and his family are making bank on it and 3) even idiots realize that a national debt of $30 trillion is unsustaniable, much less with 8% inflation and a government that is as corrupt as any banana republic that ever existed.

People are tired of the BS and are making their voices heard.

Poland and Romania are the new Saudi and Kuwait

This is a very dangerous game we're playing. This could lead to a nuclear exchange. If you think man-made "climate change" is a ***** just wait until nuclear winter.

OP: "hush, it's just the tip!"

schmellba99 said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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From 2001-2021 we spent an estimated $8 trillion in Afghanistan and actually HAD troops dying and fighting over there.

This Ukraine thing is a fraction of the cost compared to Afghanistan with none of our troops actually fighting. Taking a bite out of the Russians. Do posters here really care that much? I don't remember daily threads on here 2016-2020 complaining about Afghanistan costs even though that effort had long gone past the point of justifying us still being over there.

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There were plenty of threads on the cost of the wars, especially as they drug into the second decade of fighting.

People appear to care more about Ukraine because 1) after 20+ years of fighting, the populace is weary of it and doesn't want to get engaged in a conflict that we have no business being engaged in, 2) the politics around this one are sketchy at best given the fact that Biden doesn't even hide the fact that he and his family are making bank on it and 3) even idiots realize that a national debt of $30 trillion is unsustaniable, much less with 8% inflation and a government that is as corrupt as any banana republic that ever existed.

People are tired of the BS and are making their voices heard.

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Fair enough. If folks are being consistent in their criticism and isn't just a Biden Blame Game political spin zone thing, I can respect that.

Cause we were sending lots of money to Ukraine too for military buildup in 2016-2020…been doing that even more heavily after 2014 Crimea. And folks, even if new POTUS in 2024…that area being a trouble spot ain't going to change. You are not going to see a U.S. govt stop caring about Europe or Ukraine. This thing is far more complicated with a long history than any single POTUS administration.

I haven't seen any responses and will read them later, but the bottom line here is the incredibly easy actions and events it takes to start a war, not to mention a world war.

If we had ONE soldier identified as being killed, amongst many other things that could happen, we have no idea how Russia will react, even though I'm 100% certain they know who, and how many guys we have there.

One slip up, or one bad PR event, and it's on. The really good thing is, unlike a majority of Islamic terrorists, the Russians don't want to die, which is a good thing.

I also don't want any dead Americans.

Hell they almost shot down a British plane over the Black Sea a couple months ago.

We are a **** hair away from all hell breaking loose every day.

On two fronts.

plata o plomo said:

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Its propoganda to think you are helping America and her interests by giving Russia a heads up about US troops in ukraine

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It's the government lying when they say we have no troops on the ground and yet we do.

Troops on the ground can be considered an act of war.

I for one am tired of America lives being given to enrich our politicians, the MIC, and corrupt officials on the other side of the world.

BUT you, a "Real" patriot thinks it's fine and dandy to put Americans in harms way just so the big guy can get his 10% and so the oppressive regime we like best can stay in power in an area of the world you have hardly ever heard of much less been to.

Ur such a better patriot than me

plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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then put your boots on the ground if you you truly believe that. But you are not there so you don't believe it for yourself

schmellba99 said:

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Demosthenes81 said:

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doubledog said:

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American solders dying in someone else's war. Nothing new to see here.

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No Americans are dying in this war, except for those who volunteered to serve under Ukraine.

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I have a buddy that is a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army that is about to be deployed to Poland/Ukraine. Along with a lot of other boots on the ground. This is after he has done 1 tour in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan and was told his deployments were done. He is slated to retire in the next couple of years after putting in over 20 years.

We have boots on the ground over there and it will continue to increase in number and at some point one of our boys in uniform will be killed in a war that we have absolutely zero reason to be involved in outside of attempting to negotiate a peace or cease fire agreement.

meanwhile, Biden is proposing to open up Obamacare to illegals now. Because the southern border is apparently not an issue or something.

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SOCOM and JSOC assets in a country does not constitute "boots on the ground". And we've been deploying troops to Poland for decade now. Romania too.

Ag87H2O said:

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Wow. Rookie tip. The apostrophe, capital letters, and spell check are your friends.

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There's no time for that! We gotta out boots on the ground now!!

Poland and Romania are not at war.

And we have had troops in Romania at least since 2003. I saw them at Mihail Kogalniceanu way back then and knew a couple of the soldiers.

Who are they and what exactly are they doing? If they're accounting for delivered equipment and trying to reduce corruption then not a big deal. If they're operators and special forces engaged in actual combat or manning weapons systems in combat, that is BS. We were told we would NOT go that far.

Under Trump in 2018, Russian Wagner forces, with Russian T-72''s, directly attacked US JSOC soldiers in Syria and it didn't kick off WW3. No one gave a **** then because "orange man good". We had multiple close contacts with Russians when I was in Syria in 2020. **** happens. We have "boots on ground" in so many places it would make your head spin. And yes, sometimes they get their hands dirty.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Who are they and what exactly are they doing? If they're accounting for delivered equipment and trying to reduce corruption then not a big deal. If they're operators and special forces engaged in actual combat or manning weapons systems in combat, that is BS. We were told we would NOT go that far.

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We have very likely had SOCOM forces in Ukraine since before 2014, engaging the Russians, and the Russians probably know it.

What is gained at this point by taking a bite out of the Russians? We now know that, except for a nuclear arsenal, they are pretty much a military paper tiger. We derive no benefit or greater protection by further humiliating them at enormous cost to our overtaxed treasury.

plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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The leaker is a hero. Anything that reveals this corrupt government's lies is awesome.

Ol Army 01 said:

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plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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I 'll bite.

Because we are ignoring serious issues at home to fund a proxy war we created when overthrowing a democratically elected Leader of Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine and CIA provoked Russia by violating the Minsk Accords and killing btw 10,000 - 15,000 Russian dual citizens in the Donbask Region.

This war is for money laundering and to continue to prop up the military industrial complex.

The ramifications from this are yet unknown; however they are likely to be devastating and long term.

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We were ignoring it long before February 2022. It's beyond disingenuous to say we're ignoring one in favor of the other.

TheEternalPessimist said:

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plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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The leaker is a hero. Anything that reveals this corrupt government's lies is awesome.

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Was Chelsea manning a hero?

plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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Well….recent history showed having "advisors" on the ground led to something that could be easily escalated on a moments notice. Took a few years but it happened.

The American people at least knew at that time we had "advisors" in country.

We the people should know whether we are in a direct war or not.

Oh, and study history

Sims said:

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Until the US political class regains some semblance of a cohesive foreign policy across administrations and parties supported by a common national identity and purpose...boots on the grounds anywhere, at any point, is going to get a lot of pushback.

At this point, it's not wholly incorrect to say that US Armed Forces are deployed to suit the personal ambitions of politicians.

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Armed forces have been deployed to suit the personal ambitions of politicians and the noble class for all of documented human history.

Teslag said:

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TheEternalPessimist said:

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plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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The leaker is a hero. Anything that reveals this corrupt government's lies is awesome.

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Was Chelsea manning a hero?

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[sound of Chelsea cracking an ice cold Bud Light]

BillYeoman said:

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plata o plomo said:

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I grew up during the cold war, we have been preparing for Russia for decades. Im baffled that so many americans fall for russian propoganda. We should limit our spending, but russia is in no way in the right, that leaker is a coward and fool

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Well….recent history showed having "advisors" on the ground led to something that could be easily escalated on a moments notice. Took a few years but it happened.

The American people at least knew at that time we had "advisors" in country.

We the people should know whether we are in a direct war or not.

Oh, and study history

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We're not in a direct war, and it was no big secret that we had advisors/trainers in Ukraine. We have them in LOTS of countries, also not some huge secret, and yet no one has *****ed about it until now. The ONLY reason there is opposition to this is because Blue Man bad. Literally anything democrats do will be opposed by conservatives and vice versa.

It's no different than Kamala saying she'd never take a Trump vaccine and Trump supporters jizzing themselves that he had the FDA approve mRNA vaccines for emergency use to circumvent the FDA's normally long approval process and then both sides don't a complete 180 with Kamala pushing vaccines and potential mandates and Trump's supporters question everything last ****ing thing about vaccines, especially the fact that they weren't FDA approved without ever acknowledging why.

Fightin_Aggie said:

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plata o plomo said:

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russia and china are bigger concerns than juan pablo and maria coming to the US illegally to work a blue collar job

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BS - both are major issues.

Ignoring one is nothing but politics. You are not to be taken seriously

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Yep, American teens don't work anymore because those are now living wage jobs for immigrants and the people that can't get anything else. Soon to be replaced by computers/robots.