northeastag said:

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I'm a little surprised at the vitriol directed at federal workers.

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My experience reflects my time dealing with DCMA. Some of my counterparts were wonderful people and absolutely great to work with, but there was a double standard. As a contractor there were conflict of interest guidelines with hiring former military or other government workers, but the government had no such rules. So some of their inspectors were disgruntled people from our side who did nothing but write CARs. I kept a pareto chart of who was writing things up and at the peak they accounted for about 3/4 of them but only a small percentage of their inspectors.

Also they aren't exactly federal employees but some of the guard units had nothing better to do than shake the hell out of the planes coming out of depot level maintenance and write up whatever they felt like. It didn't matter if it was contractual or not, we had to burn a bunch of time responding to all of them or they default to accepted and hit your quality metrics at contract extension and recompete time.

northeastag said:

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I'm a little surprised at the vitriol directed at federal workers.

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Why? Our government was never designed to be this bloated. Government workers are now better compensated, have much more job security, and do less work than their private sector counterparts.

We work for them and that is 100% wrong!

insulator_king said:

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I work at the VA, in a low cost state in SW USA.
I'm gonna say that a good 90% of the people here are hard working, and really care about taking care of the Veteran patient population.

And skilled medical staff such as nurses are underpaid. I have first hand knowledge of it. CNA's max out at GS-5, which is NOT a lot of money.

ANd for those who say feds should quit their job and work in private industry for more pay, why don't YOU quit you well paying job and take a fed gov job for the job security and the guaranteed pension.
It cuts both ways.

BTW, I am not a lifetime fed worker, I've only been one for 4 years, and started when I was over 55. I'l have less than $200,000 in my TSP when I retire in a few years. But I have never lived or worked in DC, and I do fully agree with decentralizing Fed offices away from that place.

Oh, and get your facts straight, federal workers never get COLA's, they get small pay raises on smaller numerical pay. Only retirees and Social Security recipients get actual COLA's based upon the official CPI numbers.

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Exactly. I worked in the private sector for 20 years. Took a job at the VA to be close to the ones I love. I could make at least 30% more across town doing the same job. People here saying that all government workers need to make $15 an hour apparently don't realize there are lawyers, doctors, computers scientists, people who would be CEO's and many other high skilled workers at the Federal level. All they see are people at the DMV. 5% raise wouldn't even come close to compensating me at my prior civilian level for what I do. We have 2 positions open in my department right now that have been open for a year. Both require education and certification that few people have. Both are left unfilled because even the top of the pay range is at least 20% lower that entry pay scales across town.

The Fife said:

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northeastag said:

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I'm a little surprised at the vitriol directed at federal workers.

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My experience reflects my time dealing with DCMA. Some of my counterparts were wonderful people and absolutely great to work with, but there was a double standard. As a contractor there were conflict of interest guidelines with hiring former military or other government workers, but the government had no such rules. So some of their inspectors were disgruntled people from our side who did nothing but write CARs. I kept a pareto chart of who was writing things up and at the peak they accounted for about 3/4 of them but only a small percentage of their inspectors.

Also they aren't exactly federal employees but some of the guard units had nothing better to do than shake the hell out of the planes coming out of depot level maintenance and write up whatever they felt like. It didn't matter if it was contractual or not, we had to burn a bunch of time responding to all of them or they default to accepted and hit your quality metrics at contract extension and recompete time.

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We called the Contract Auditors the velociraptors...

Just 'cause they would claw open your belly and rip out your entrails on an audit...

Oh, and determine what your actual costs should be, regardless what they actually were...

Did not like them, I did...

We had DCAA on site too but thankfully I never dealt with them. Mostly just the ridiculous stuff people on our side did and how to figure out how to keep them from continuing to do it.

TacosaurusRex said:

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aunuwyn08 said:

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Feds made like 3% in raises total between 2010 and 2020. Fed compensation in many geographic areas significantly lags behind private sector comp, and is creating some serious recruitment issues.

Further, fed raises since 2020 have significantly lagged inflation. It's not a gravy train like many make it out to be.

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I do not think is is a gravy train, but it is pretty much a guaranteed job for life. Recession proof, merger and acquisition proof, and other guarantees that the private sector does not enjoy. Trade offs are to be expected

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That and a pension plan.

That one of the big issues with the pay scale. We're paying 2 people for every 1 working. Phase out pensions and move to a 401K match plan for every new govt employee not grandfathered in and kick the GS scale to the curb

That's pretty much what it is now.

• Employees hired for the last 30+ years pay into SS
• They have an optional "Thrift Savings Plan" (essentially a 401k) that is matched dollar for dollar for the first 3% and the next few percent is at 50 cents on the dollar.
• The "pension" is 1% per year, so 30 years gets you a whopping 30%. Hardly the gravy train it's made out to be.

These private companies, with far fewer employees, still offer pensions:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/15-biggest-companies-offer-pensions-143402543.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGkvpAceeezLYhRQhavEy3Ud6A70Ci9WN59fLDKyrtbh8kYHa-k2i2JHbsTQtxmONcqGbmOx4Zwr8OPfeqxzMMx2N11jcCIu1FUgPDGLUPjj-v8njEs2zjY7u3EmgMuNoD3-FVcYohhh0xYs0s7Ps5IpcllG6KWvBCvfi8byqlSs

FIDO*98* said:

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That one of the big issues with the pay scale. We're paying 2 people for every 1 working. Phase out pensions and move to a 401K match plan for every new govt employee not grandfathered in and kick the GS scale to the curb

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There's a pension plan and a 401K. And social security.

slaughtr said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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That one of the big issues with the pay scale. We're paying 2 people for every 1 working. Phase out pensions and move to a 401K match plan for every new govt employee not grandfathered in and kick the GS scale to the curb

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There's a pension plan and a 401K. And social security.

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And each employee is paying into each of those......... that is not a gift that they do not pay into...additionally they pay into FICA. Very few bonuses and most a few hundred dollars not thousands as private sector gets.

There is fluff in many GOV offices and of course that could be reduced. However, this board keeps confusing those potions with professional level employees. In my case Air Traffic Control. Also, the GS pay scale was eliminated years ago for many professional grades.

I recommend anyone with with a son/daughter that is looking for a great career, look into ATC. Great job, career. For me, I went through the AF.

agAngeldad said:

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slaughtr said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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That one of the big issues with the pay scale. We're paying 2 people for every 1 working. Phase out pensions and move to a 401K match plan for every new govt employee not grandfathered in and kick the GS scale to the curb

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There's a pension plan and a 401K. And social security.

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And each employee is paying into each of those......... that is not a gift that they do not pay into...additionally they pay into FICA. Very few bonuses and most a few hundred dollars not thousands as private sector gets.

There is fluff in many GOV offices and of course that could be reduced. However, this board keeps confusing those potions with professional level employees. In my case Air Traffic Control. Also, the GS pay scale was eliminated years ago for many professional grades.

I recommend anyone with with a son/daughter that is looking for a great career, look into ATC. Great job, career. For me, I went through the AF.

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You seem to think I'm saying that it's bad or excessive. I'm not. I'm a Federal Employee and I pay into all of those.

aunuwyn08 said:

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Feds made like 3% in raises total between 2010 and 2020. Fed compensation in many geographic areas significantly lags behind private sector comp, and is creating some serious recruitment issues.

Further, fed raises since 2020 have significantly lagged inflation. It's not a gravy train like many make it out to be.

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This. Most here, including myself, believe the government could be thinned out. However, I do agree that the government is notoriously bad about adjusting their salaries and the value of their compensation diminishes over time because it does not keep up with any inflation. Absolutely no one is getting rich working for the fed.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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northeastag said:

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I'm a little surprised at the vitriol directed at federal workers.

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Why? Our government was never designed to be this bloated. Government workers are now better compensated, have much more job security, and do less work than their private sector counterparts.

We work for them and that is 100% wrong!

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I agree its bloated and could be thinned. But it doesn't negate the argument that if those that actually do work haven't had more than a 3% increase in over 12 years should be considered for an adjustment. Absolutely no one gets rich working for the fed. Even the corporate world adjusts compensation slightly based on things like inflation. You pay all fed workers the bare minimum, then I would expect the end result is the tax payers suffer well beyond the taxes they pay to support said workers.

slaughtr said:

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agAngeldad said:

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slaughtr said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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That one of the big issues with the pay scale. We're paying 2 people for every 1 working. Phase out pensions and move to a 401K match plan for every new govt employee not grandfathered in and kick the GS scale to the curb

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There's a pension plan and a 401K. And social security.

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And each employee is paying into each of those......... that is not a gift that they do not pay into...additionally they pay into FICA. Very few bonuses and most a few hundred dollars not thousands as private sector gets.

There is fluff in many GOV offices and of course that could be reduced. However, this board keeps confusing those potions with professional level employees. In my case Air Traffic Control. Also, the GS pay scale was eliminated years ago for many professional grades.

I recommend anyone with with a son/daughter that is looking for a great career, look into ATC. Great job, career. For me, I went through the AF.

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You seem to think I'm saying that it's bad or excessive. I'm not. I'm a Federal Employee and I pay into all of those.

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Got cha...

agAngeldad said:

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slaughtr said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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That one of the big issues with the pay scale. We're paying 2 people for every 1 working. Phase out pensions and move to a 401K match plan for every new govt employee not grandfathered in and kick the GS scale to the curb

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There's a pension plan and a 401K. And social security.

---

And each employee is paying into each of those......... that is not a gift that they do not pay into...additionally they pay into FICA. Very few bonuses and most a few hundred dollars not thousands as private sector gets.

There is fluff in many GOV offices and of course that could be reduced. However, this board keeps confusing those potions with professional level employees. In my case Air Traffic Control. Also, the GS pay scale was eliminated years ago for many professional grades.

I recommend anyone with with a son/daughter that is looking for a great career, look into ATC. Great job, career. For me, I went through the AF.

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Our "bonus" system was a joke. I was told many times I wouldn't get one because a) I got one last year (wtf???) or b) They had to be handed out on an "equitable" basis (yeah, that)

B-1 83 said:

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agAngeldad said:

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slaughtr said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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That one of the big issues with the pay scale. We're paying 2 people for every 1 working. Phase out pensions and move to a 401K match plan for every new govt employee not grandfathered in and kick the GS scale to the curb

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There's a pension plan and a 401K. And social security.

---

And each employee is paying into each of those......... that is not a gift that they do not pay into...additionally they pay into FICA. Very few bonuses and most a few hundred dollars not thousands as private sector gets.

There is fluff in many GOV offices and of course that could be reduced. However, this board keeps confusing those potions with professional level employees. In my case Air Traffic Control. Also, the GS pay scale was eliminated years ago for many professional grades.

I recommend anyone with with a son/daughter that is looking for a great career, look into ATC. Great job, career. For me, I went through the AF.

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Our "bonus" system was a joke. I was told many times I wouldn't get one because a) I got one last year (wtf???) or b) They had to be handed out on an "equitable" basis (yeah, that)

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In the late 80/early 90, there was a performance reward that was about 3000K. However, the unions argued that every employee was dong their job and all or none. That changed everything.

The USDA "union" I was in ($4 a month) was pretty much just a lobby organization. They did get us "flex scheduling" which was great for hitting the field at daylight when it was baking hot (South Texas) or while the ground was frozen (Panhandle). Overtime was forbidden - we got "comp time", but only if the boss approved it.

The ones in DC proper are a disgusting lot of typical Union dogs, and the cause of a lot of nonsense in the National Headquarters. To watch them in trainings was sad - half would introduce themselves with what position they held in their union.

B-1 83 said:

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The USDA "union" I was in ($4 a month) was pretty much just a lobby organization. They did get us "flex scheduling" which was great for hitting the field at daylight when it was baking hot (South Texas) or while the ground was frozen (Panhandle). Overtime was forbidden - we got "comp time", but only if the boss approved it.

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ATC was 1.5 percent of your pay. NATCA did get a lot for controllers, however, I could spend hours about waste.

Quote:

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Absolutely no one is getting rich working for the fed.

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How many millions is FJB worth again?

OK, members of Congress aside, there are plenty of folks working in the Senior Executive Service getting fat off the land. And there are plenty of folks working the lobbyist - government - back to lobbyist route that are definitely enriching themselves.

All other federal government jobs I probably agree.