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45-70Ag said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I don't understand why everyone is upset with this.

All of us would want at least a 5% salary increase in our day jobs given the 6.5% inflation last year.


Now, could we cull the heard a little (or a lot)? Sure.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

Federal jobs are not low paying jobs. Most of us aren't getting COLA raises and the piece of **** you voted for has harmed our economy so badly that our employers can't afford to give it.

**** NO! They don't deserve a pay raise.

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I didn't vote for Biden.

Most federal jobs (in quantity) are people at the post office, DMV, social services, etc. Listen to Dave Ramsey, any time anyone ever tells him that they work for the federal government, his first response is "you could make more working in the private sector". Not that he's all-knowing or anything like that, but most Federal employees are pretty low income earners.

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Why don't the leave and get a real job?
Problem solved.

You know why? Because a large percentage are mediocre hires that are biding away time to retirement on the taxpayer dollar. And they get a ton of healthcare and pension benefits

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45-70Ag said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I don't understand why everyone is upset with this.

All of us would want at least a 5% salary increase in our day jobs given the 6.5% inflation last year.


Now, could we cull the heard a little (or a lot)? Sure.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

Federal jobs are not low paying jobs. Most of us aren't getting COLA raises and the piece of **** you voted for has harmed our economy so badly that our employers can't afford to give it.

**** NO! They don't deserve a pay raise.

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I didn't vote for Biden.

Most federal jobs (in quantity) are people at the post office, DMV, social services, etc. Listen to Dave Ramsey, any time anyone ever tells him that they work for the federal government, his first response is "you could make more working in the private sector". Not that he's all-knowing or anything like that, but most Federal employees are pretty low income earners.

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deddog said:

Why don't the leave and get a real job?
Problem solved.

You know why? Because a large percentage are mediocre hires that are biding away time to retirement on the taxpayer dollar. And they get a ton of healthcare and pension benefits

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If I was elected President, I would immediately cut the budget by about 40%, giving the departments 12 months to put it into effect. I would probably cut whole departments and severely slash others.

I'm firmly in the camp of killing needless government spending, but I'm not batting an eye over a 5% cost of living raise that most private companies are giving due to inflation.

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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All govt employees should be paid $15/hr

Minimum wage for minimum work

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B-1 83 said:

Going to be tough getting Majors, Colonels, and Border Patrol to work for that. A pfc maybe……

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Keep Eric Smith and terminate all the other Generals, Colonels, Majors, etc; seems like it's hard enough to hire and keep Border Patrol agents now. Maybe transfer those worthless TSA agents from airports and let them form picket lines along the border.

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45-70Ag said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I don't understand why everyone is upset with this. Federal employees are mostly low-paying jobs.

All of us would want at least a 5% salary increase in our day jobs given the 6.5% inflation last year. I know my wife and I both got bigger numbers than that in the private sector.


Now, could we cull the heard a little (or a lot)? Sure. But I don't see a problem with a 5% inflation/ cost of living raise. It's the administration admitting to high inflation if nothing else.

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Actually.....

Quote:

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After all, the average federal employee today receives a salary of around $90,000 and total compensation including benefits of about $125,000.

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a 2012 Congressional Budget Office analysis found that federal employees received total benefits about 46% more generous than those of similar private sector workers.

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That's the Mean. What is the Median?

My understanding is that there a lot of highly paid employees that bring the average up, but it's not a natural curve. Lots of people on the bottom. (DMV, Post Office, social workers, etc.)


Literally the first thing that pops up when you google :

Second article that pops up.

aunuwyn08 said:

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Feds made like 3% in raises total between 2010 and 2020. Fed compensation in many geographic areas significantly lags behind private sector comp, and is creating some serious recruitment issues.

Further, fed raises since 2020 have significantly lagged inflation. It's not a gravy train like many make it out to be.

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Oh, it's EVERYTHING like a gravy train. Everything. EV REE THING.

If I'm a federal employee I'm thinking I'll be sitting on my ass in 20 years collecting a nice pension, just like the 20 years federally I was employed.

I am not a federal employee. I work for a living.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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Second article that pops up.

The uploaded image is unavailable

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From Forbes:

Quote:

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The Federal Salary Council, which is made up of presidential appointees and federal employee labor union leaders, then takes the BLS data and compares pay in private and state/local government jobs to federal salaries in jobs that are graded the same on the GS scale. If they're different, then there's a pay gap one way or the other. This year, the Federal Salary Council's analysis found an average federal salary penalty of 31%.

This implies that federal workers receive salaries almost one-third below those of similar private sector jobs.

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...many federal jobs are "over-graded," meaning that they are assigned GS levels higher than the job skill requirement of those positions would truly warrant. Over grading results in federal salaries being compared to private and state/local government jobs with higher skill requirements, and thus higher salaries, than the federal job has. As a result, the federal job looks underpaid.

Has this happened? In fact, Federal policymakers have been aware for decades that many federal job positions are over graded. In 1975, the GAO warned that federal "managers exert pressure to have positions over graded and are reluctant to correctly classify over graded positions," finding that 73% of 101 positions it examined were over graded.

A 1979 analysis by the Civil Service Commission found that 10% of federal jobs were over graded, versus only 2.9% under graded.

A 1995 GAO study analyzing 37 federal occupations found over grading in 57% of the jobs, with 26% under graded. In both analyses, over grading was most common in higher-paid federal jobs. Under grading was more common in jobs held by predominantly female employees.

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I'm not smart enough (nor do I care enough) to dig in to studies on studies.

I just know you're the first person I have personally heard try and say that government employees are overpaid compared to equivalent jobs. All I have ever heard (from multiple directions) is that they are underpaid and could get paid more for working in a private company. When you google Government pay vs private, everything that pops up says that government employees are underpaid compared to their counterparts.

I personally know 3 examples of people who left government jobs and got 50%(ish) raises working for a private company. I also listen to Dave Ramsey from time to time (I don't agree with all of his stances, but that's not the point here) and he consistently tells people that have government jobs to go work in the private sector as fast as possible so that they can make more money.

I tripled my own income in 2-3 years after leaving the teaching/coaching field and working in the corporate world. Teaching isn't exactly a federal government job, but it's still in the same family.

Maybe everything I have ever known and heard is wrong, but nothing you posted is close to changing my mind.

I came to the VA to finish my career as a physician after 23 years in the private sector. It was an absolute ****show. Poor quality you wouldn't believe. Stuff I never saw in private practice. Bloated with 30 people doing two people's job. They are overpaid relative to the amount of work they do. I was doing 60% of the workload but all the other BS they had me doing became too much to handle. After getting royally screwed over I got out after 5 years when I had planned to work 10. Just could not stomach it anymore.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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I'm not smart enough (nor do I care enough) to dig in to studies on studies.

I just know you're the first person I have personally heard try and say that government employees are overpaid compared to equivalent jobs. All I have ever heard (from multiple directions) is that they are underpaid and could get paid more for working in a private company. When you google Government pay vs private, everything that pops up says that government employees are underpaid compared to their counterparts.

I personally know 3 examples of people who left government jobs and got 50%(ish) raises working for a private company. I also listen to Dave Ramsey from time to time (I don't agree with all of his stances, but that's not the point here) and he consistently tells people that have government jobs to go work in the private sector as fast as possible so that they can make more money.

I tripled my own income in 2-3 years after leaving the teaching/coaching field and working in the corporate world. Teaching isn't exactly a federal government job, but it's still in the same family.

Maybe everything I have ever known and heard is wrong, but nothing you posted is close to changing my mind.

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This was the first thing that popped up when i searched. I don't know what to tell you. The GAO has found multiple times that an apples to apples view shows this narrative to be wrong because of grade inflation. Having said that, I think it's logical to assume that private pay has outpaced federal pay over the last three years in particular with all of the absurd pay increases companies have had to do to retain talent + inflation.

Im guessing the government hasn't kept up with that but maybe Im wrong and they are still mostly equally paid.

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45-70Ag said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I don't understand why everyone is upset with this. Federal employees are mostly low-paying jobs.

All of us would want at least a 5% salary increase in our day jobs given the 6.5% inflation last year. I know my wife and I both got bigger numbers than that in the private sector.


Now, could we cull the heard a little (or a lot)? Sure. But I don't see a problem with a 5% inflation/ cost of living raise. It's the administration admitting to high inflation if nothing else.

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There should always be less pay for government versus private because it is almost impossible to fire the government employee. Now if they want to get rid of civil service and prevent government employee unions we can talk. It is an extreme conflict of interest when your union helps elect the people who decide how much you are paid.

B-1 83 said:

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Irrelevant. It is, and they should be paid $15 an hour along with Army Colonels, CBP agents, Secret Service, ICE agents, etc…., by God, just because they're gub'ment! [\spits, wipes mouth on sleeve]

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Thats funny but, most on here could not be an ATC. But make it private like Canada. More Pay and they really suck north of the border.

I work for US Fish and Wildlife and I can promise you this is bull***** We don't even have a budget right now.

aunuwyn08 said:

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Feds made like 3% in raises total between 2010 and 2020. Fed compensation in many geographic areas significantly lags behind private sector comp, and is creating some serious recruitment issues.

Further, fed raises since 2020 have significantly lagged inflation. It's not a gravy train like many make it out to be.

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They picked the job.

AgRad89 said:

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I came to the VA to finish my career as a physician after 23 years in the private sector. It was an absolute ****show. Poor quality you wouldn't believe. Stuff I never saw in private practice. Bloated with 30 people doing two people's job. They are overpaid relative to the amount of work they do. I was doing 60% of the workload but all the other BS they had me doing became too much to handle. After getting royally screwed over I got out after 5 years when I had planned to work 10. Just could not stomach it anymore.

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^THIS.

Let's see a graph of the supposed salary gap vs. the yearly number of people in Federal positions...start from 2010.

Feds do not have stable work processes, nor a thorough understanding of their obligations and responsibilities, as they fluctuate every 4 years or so...so does their perceived authority...

Any Fed Agency or Dept. with HQ in DC should have a max of 5 people...including three-letter agencies. Either pass the execution role to State- or Regional- type agencies... DC should be policy enforcement, not execution.

And Biden is trying to build the largest Centralized Government in our history...and succeeding, so far.

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AgRad89 said:

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I came to the VA to finish my career as a physician after 23 years in the private sector. It was an absolute ****show. Poor quality you wouldn't believe. Stuff I never saw in private practice. Bloated with 30 people doing two people's job. They are overpaid relative to the amount of work they do. I was doing 60% of the workload but all the other BS they had me doing became too much to handle. After getting royally screwed over I got out after 5 years when I had planned to work 10. Just could not stomach it anymore.

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SeMgCo87 said:

^THIS.

Let's see a graph of the supposed salary gap vs. the yearly number of people in Federal positions...start from 2010.

Feds do not have stable work processes, nor a thorough understanding of their obligations and responsibilities, as they fluctuate every 4 years or so...so does their perceived authority...

Any Fed Agency or Dept. with HQ in DC should have a max of 5 people...including three-letter agencies. Either pass the execution role to State- or Regional- type agencies... DC should be policy enforcement, not execution.

And Biden is trying to build the largest Centralized Government in our history...and succeeding, so far.

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How would you apply this to Air Traffic Controllers- all fed amd all fall under international rules and procedures?

Put it all on the nation's credit card.

Hoyt Ag said:

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Just a general question....Why does it take so long to get onboarded with the federal government? I was job hunting last year and didnt hear a thing on jobs I was well qualified for until 4-6 months later. By that time, I had signed contracts with new employers but I was genuinely wanting to at least have a shot at the federal jobs.

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Ran into this too before I got hired with the Corps of Engineers. Took another job and then a year later got the call from the Corps.

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AgRad89 said:

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I came to the VA to finish my career as a physician after 23 years in the private sector. It was an absolute ****show. Poor quality you wouldn't believe. Stuff I never saw in private practice. Bloated with 30 people doing two people's job. They are overpaid relative to the amount of work they do. I was doing 60% of the workload but all the other BS they had me doing became too much to handle. After getting royally screwed over I got out after 5 years when I had planned to work 10. Just could not stomach it anymore.

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SeMgCo87 said:

^THIS.

Let's see a graph of the supposed salary gap vs. the yearly number of people in Federal positions...start from 2010.

Feds do not have stable work processes, nor a thorough understanding of their obligations and responsibilities, as they fluctuate every 4 years or so...so does their perceived authority...

Any Fed Agency or Dept. with HQ in DC should have a max of 5 people...including three-letter agencies. Either pass the execution role to State- or Regional- type agencies... DC should be policy enforcement, not execution.

And Biden is trying to build the largest Centralized Government in our history...and succeeding, so far.

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agAngeldad said:

How would you apply this to Air Traffic Controllers- all fed amd all fall under international rules and procedures?

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I don't think ATC's have a private sector counterpart, so what I'm ranting about are the Fed employees with skills that are transferrable to private sector, or vice versa.

What they lack in efficiency and controlled processes, they make up for it with numbers.

I'm a military officer nearing retirement. I could do basically the same job I do now as a Fed, or I can work for someone like Lockheed.

I'd make about 100K more working for Lockheed, but honestly I don't know which I'll try to do. My interests are inexpensive, I've saved aggressively, and with my Colonel's retirement pay and a professional job I don't need more money. Working for the Feds I don't have to move, I already know the people, I don't have to learn a new culture, and I get more days off. If I was a young guy I'd take the money but after getting after it for 20+ years I'm less interested in the corporate grind. The Federal employees in my line of work work plenty hard.

Spend spend spend

aunuwyn08 said:

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Feds made like 3% in raises total between 2010 and 2020. Fed compensation in many geographic areas significantly lags behind private sector comp, and is creating some serious recruitment issues.

Further, fed raises since 2020 have significantly lagged inflation. It's not a gravy train like many make it out to be.

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Fine. They can quit and go elsewhere if they they they're underpaid.

Every time I hear an argument like this I just roll my eyes. If this were true, we wouldn't have the high numbers of federal employees we do.

aggie_wes said:

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WHERE IS MY 5% PAY RAISE?

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Right there with mine.

1. Layoff 3/4 Federal workers.
2. Use the savings to give the remaining 1/4 Fed workers a 10% raise.

Win for the tax payers, win for the actual workers... Unemployment for the rest.

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45-70Ag said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I don't understand why everyone is upset with this.

All of us would want at least a 5% salary increase in our day jobs given the 6.5% inflation last year.


Now, could we cull the heard a little (or a lot)? Sure.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

Federal jobs are not low paying jobs. Most of us aren't getting COLA raises and the piece of **** you voted for has harmed our economy so badly that our employers can't afford to give it.

**** NO! They don't deserve a pay raise.

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I didn't vote for Biden.

Most federal jobs (in quantity) are people at the post office, DMV, social services, etc. Listen to Dave Ramsey, any time anyone ever tells him that they work for the federal government, his first response is "you could make more working in the private sector". Not that he's all-knowing or anything like that, but most Federal employees are pretty low income earners.

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deddog said:

Why don't the leave and get a real job?
Problem solved.

You know why? Because a large percentage are mediocre hires that are biding away time to retirement on the taxpayer dollar. And they get a ton of healthcare and pension benefits

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Wrec86 Ag said:

If I was elected President, I would immediately cut the budget by about 40%, giving the departments 12 months to put it into effect. I would probably cut whole departments and severely slash others.

I'm firmly in the camp of killing needless government spending, but I'm not batting an eye over a 5% cost of living raise that most private companies are giving due to inflation.

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Talk is cheap. You vote for the party that does the opposite of what you say you want.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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That's the Mean. What is the Median?

My understanding is that there a lot of highly paid employees that bring the average up, but it's not a natural curve. Lots of people on the bottom. (DMV, Post Office, social workers, etc.)


Literally the first thing that pops up when you google :

The uploaded image is unavailable

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Boo boo,
Again , if it sucks so much, quit,

And yet government payrolls keep increasing . That's because most government jobs have ZERO accountability and great benefits.

I work at the VA, in a low cost state in SW USA.
I'm gonna say that a good 90% of the people here are hard working, and really care about taking care of the Veteran patient population.

And skilled medical staff such as nurses are underpaid. I have first hand knowledge of it. CNA's max out at GS-5, which is NOT a lot of money.

ANd for those who say feds should quit their job and work in private industry for more pay, why don't YOU quit you well paying job and take a fed gov job for the job security and the guaranteed pension.
It cuts both ways.

BTW, I am not a lifetime fed worker, I've only been one for 4 years, and started when I was over 55. I'l have less than $200,000 in my TSP when I retire in a few years. But I have never lived or worked in DC, and I do fully agree with decentralizing Fed offices away from that place.

Oh, and get your facts straight, federal workers never get COLA's, they get small pay raises on smaller numerical pay. Only retirees and Social Security recipients get actual COLA's based upon the official CPI numbers.

northeastag said:

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I'm a little surprised at the vitriol directed at federal workers. My wife took a meaningful pay cut to move from a private HR position to the NLRB. She worked there for about 15 years. Could have left at any time for higher pay, but did it because that's what she wanted to do (and we really didn't need the extra money). Her pension benefit is kind of a joke, but retiree healthcare for her and me is much better than what is being offered in the private sector.

The problem, there is gigantic bloat in the system. While I don't think the average employee is overpayed relative to equivalent skills/comp in the private sector, there are just WAY too many employees.

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You answered your own question. I would say it's more due to the fact that everyone knows there is massive, unnecessary bloat and our tax dollars pay for it. At least half the workforce is most likely redundant and not needed.

Now add in that most of those people are contributing to the ongoing deep state which works against the best interest of everyday Americans and they are not going to be viewed favorably.

Austin Ag said:

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Tough to compare it like that. Not many burger flippers and such to drag the average down.

YouBet said:

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45-70Ag said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

I don't understand why everyone is upset with this. Federal employees are mostly low-paying jobs.

All of us would want at least a 5% salary increase in our day jobs given the 6.5% inflation last year. I know my wife and I both got bigger numbers than that in the private sector.


Now, could we cull the heard a little (or a lot)? Sure. But I don't see a problem with a 5% inflation/ cost of living raise. It's the administration admitting to high inflation if nothing else.

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Actually.....

Quote:

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After all, the average federal employee today receives a salary of around $90,000 and total compensation including benefits of about $125,000.

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Quote:

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a 2012 Congressional Budget Office analysis found that federal employees received total benefits about 46% more generous than those of similar private sector workers.

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Thanks for the facts.

AgRad89 said:

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I came to the VA to finish my career as a physician after 23 years in the private sector. It was an absolute ****show. Poor quality you wouldn't believe. Stuff I never saw in private practice. Bloated with 30 people doing two people's job. They are overpaid relative to the amount of work they do. I was doing 60% of the workload but all the other BS they had me doing became too much to handle. After getting royally screwed over I got out after 5 years when I had planned to work 10. Just could not stomach it anymore.

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My federal career began with NASA in the Apollo years after a 4 year commissioned stint in the AF. I do not have a bureaucrat's temperament but stayed with the work because it was an exciting place to be at that time and place. After about 7 years, I looked around and had 11--12 years of creditable federal service in a fairly high pay grade and pretty much had golden handcuffs on my wrists. I stayed for another 16 years with 3 different agencies, stayed out of DC. and retired early at a significantly reduced pension and retention of subsidized health insurance benefits. My work was never a ****show, but a bureaucratic culture is no place for common sense, creative and critical conservative. Don't get me wrong: I survived--even prospered--but I faked it in the same way I would imagine most private sector types do as well in the large, inflexible and "socially aware" organizations of today. BTW, I took a second career as a lowly community college teacher and loved every minute of it.

No Spin Ag said:

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Is this to include border patrol and ICE? Because from what I know, even entry level employees can make six figures their first year and they don't exactly have the stringest of requirements to be hired.

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Do you know how to use a search engine for 10 seconds?
https://www.cbp.gov/careers/usbp/pay-benefits/bpa