Daylight Saving Time up for debate again

8,400 Views | 136 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by I am always wrong
Serotonin
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fc2112 said:

Serotonin said:

Chad Cunningham said:

If there is a permanent time it must be standard time... If you made DST permanent you would have the sun not rising til 9 in the winter.
Ding ding. This is why permanent daylight savings will never get implemented.
We tried permanent DST before and it was hailed as greatness before it started and everyone hated it 6 months later.
Yeah, Daylight Savings has a huge perk for everyone: More sun in the afternoon and evening. Everyone loves that.

But during winter it's already hard for many people (and especially kids and teens) to get up and moving. Daylight Savings basically made it so that kids who were already having trouble getting up at 6:15-6:30 now had to get up at the equivalent of 5:15-5:30. And the sunlight was out later the evening before so they were naturally awake later.

Schools became a mass of sleepy drivers and walking kids in the pitch black dark.

I don't really care either way, that's just the reason why everyone ended up hating it in practice.
TexAgs91
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link
TexAgs91 said:

Here goes the biannual gripe fest about time changes that will quickly be forgotten.
frenchtoast
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My takeaway from this thread is that kids cause problems.
slaughtr
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I love how Texans think they are the center of the universe. Where I live, because of the time changes, it doesn't get dark till almost 10 pm in the summer and 6 pm in the winter, which is awesome. And to the poster that said it doesn't matter if it's light in the winter up north because it's too cold, apparently he's never heard of winter sports. I'd rather be cross country skiing up north in the winter than suffering through the summer heat in Houston's summer any day. Which is why I left after graduating. I love the time changes. You Texans and Rubio can whine all you want.
baumenhammer
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Seriously, I wonder why the compromise option doesn't get any real air time…

One last change of the clocks… split the difference. 30 min adjustment and leave it.
Serotonin
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baumenhammer said:

Seriously, I wonder why the compromise option doesn't get any real air time…

One last change of the clocks… split the difference. 30 min adjustment and leave it.
It would work for us but be a pain to align with the rest of the world.
Ag with kids
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YellowPot_97 said:

91AggieLawyer said:

Chad Cunningham said:

If there is a permanent time it must be standard time... If you made DST permanent you would have the sun not rising til 9 in the winter.

I don't know where you live, but the latest the sun rose in the DFW area was 7:30am in mid January.

In Cleveland, the latest is 7:53am around the same time. In NYC, its around 7:20am the first week of January.

Where in the hell is it anywhere near 9:00?

DFW sunrise in Jan at 7:30 is on standard time. Go to permanent DST and sunrise is at 8:30. In fact most of Texas would have 8:30-9:00 sunrise in winter.
No thanks.


The most of Texas that has 0830-0900 has no ****ing people living in it...
TexAgs91
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Serotonin said:

In Texas it is a mere personal preference. Do you prefer solar noon to happen at noon or 1pm. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day.
If noon is at the end of the day then there may be issues
Cromagnum
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Chad Cunningham said:

If there is a permanent time it must be standard time... If you made DST permanent you would have the sun not rising til 9 in the winter.


I'm good with it. Nothing worse than leaving the house at 7 while it's dark and coming home at 5 when it's already dark.
Ag with kids
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fc2112 said:

Ag with kids said:

Chad Cunningham said:

If there is a permanent time it must be standard time... If you made DST permanent you would have the sun not rising til 9 in the winter.
I can drive to work in the dark.

DST means I have more sunlight AFTER work when I can actually DO things...
Not all of us are lazy and sleep in every morning. Many of us do a lot of stuff BEFORE work.
Do it in the dark. Be man. Don't be afraid of the dark.
Caliber
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Serotonin said:

baumenhammer said:

Seriously, I wonder why the compromise option doesn't get any real air time…

One last change of the clocks… split the difference. 30 min adjustment and leave it.
It would work for us but be a pain to align with the rest of the world.
Tell me you've never worked with India without telling me you never worked with India.
No Spin Ag
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As one who loves the evening more than daytime, I'm all for whatever gives us shorter days.
Just an Ag
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I am willing to bet everyone will adjust just fine to whatever is decided. No reason to keep this Spring forward fall back stuff. My preference is DST not Regular time.
Serotonin
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Just an Ag said:

I am willing to bet everyone will adjust just fine to whatever is decided. No reason to keep this Spring forward fall back stuff. My preference is DST not Regular time.
We tried permanent daylight time in the 70s and people hated it. If they hadn't then we would still have it today.

Maybe we can give it another try but my guess is the result would be the same.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/

Quote:

"The human being is a very adaptive animal," he said. "There is no reason we have to be a slave to the sun."

And yet the early-morning darkness quickly proved dangerous for children: A 6-year-old Alexandria girl was struck by a car on her way to Polk Elementary School on January 7; the accident broke her leg. Two Prince George's County students were hurt in February. In the weeks after the change, eight Florida kids were killed in traffic accidents. Florida's governor, Reubin Askew, asked for Congress to repeal the measure. "It's time to recognize that we may well have made a mistake," US Senator Dick Clark of Iowa said during a speech in Congress on January 28, 1974.
Quote:

In late September, the full Congress passed a bill that would restore standard time on October 27. President Ford signed it on October 5. Energy savings, a House panel noted, "must be balanced against a majority of the public's distaste for the observance of Daylight Saving Time."
Seven Costanza
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slaughtr said:

I love how Texans think they are the center of the universe. Where I live, because of the time changes, it doesn't get dark till almost 10 pm in the summer and 6 pm in the winter, which is awesome. And to the poster that said it doesn't matter if it's light in the winter up north because it's too cold, apparently he's never heard of winter sports. I'd rather be cross country skiing up north in the winter than suffering through the summer heat in Houston's summer any day. Which is why I left after graduating. I love the time changes. You Texans and Rubio can whine all you want.
You get off of work and then go cross country skiing before going home?
BQ2001
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Maybe schools could adjust their working hours if they need to and leave everyone else alone
barney94
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Shift 'em 30 minutes and leave them alone forever
Serotonin
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BQ2001 said:

Maybe schools could adjust their working hours if they need to and leave everyone else alone
That would happen.

But then you'd see the domino effect of the 'work day' shifting back an hour to accommodate the change in school start time (since about 50% of the workforce has kids and you are shifting their day back one hour).

And then we'd just be back to the exact same setup as we had under standard time, just with different numbers.
Its Not Rocket Surgery
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Quote:

If there is a permanent time it must be standard time...
slaughtr
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Seven Costanza said:

slaughtr said:

I love how Texans think they are the center of the universe. Where I live, because of the time changes, it doesn't get dark till almost 10 pm in the summer and 6 pm in the winter, which is awesome. And to the poster that said it doesn't matter if it's light in the winter up north because it's too cold, apparently he's never heard of winter sports. I'd rather be cross country skiing up north in the winter than suffering through the summer heat in Houston's summer any day. Which is why I left after graduating. I love the time changes. You Texans and Rubio can whine all you want.
You get off of work and then go cross country skiing before going home?

Yes

And?
91AggieLawyer
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Seven Costanza said:

Quote:

Where in the hell is it anywhere near 9:00?




This chart is WRONG. You've been misinformed.

Fargo, ND, for example, has a sunrise NO LATER than 8:12am in late December.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/fargo?month=12&year=2022
C@LAg
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91AggieLawyer said:

Seven Costanza said:

Quote:

Where in the hell is it anywhere near 9:00?




This chart is WRONG. You've been misinformed.

Fargo, ND, for example, has a sunrise NO LATER than 8:12am in late December.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/fargo?month=12&year=2022
No. YOU are WRONG.

look at the image again.

slower this time.

It states it represents what it would be like with PERMANENT DST.

And Fargo, which is on the east side of ND, falls in the 9-9:30 color shading accurately. So 9:12 fits, dead-to-rights.
Caliber
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91AggieLawyer said:

Seven Costanza said:

Quote:

Where in the hell is it anywhere near 9:00?




This chart is WRONG. You've been misinformed.

Fargo, ND, for example, has a sunrise NO LATER than 8:12am in late December.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/fargo?month=12&year=2022
That chart is actually agreeing with your data. The chart shows what the latest sunrise times would be if we went to year round DST. You just said its 8:12am as the latest sunrise in Standard time. Push that back an hour for a year round DST and it's in the 9:00 to 9:30 band that Fargo appears to be depicted in.
torrid
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I suppose in Alaska it doesn't really make much difference?
lb3
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BMX Bandit said:

Chad Cunningham said:

If there is a permanent time it must be standard time... If you made DST permanent you would have the sun not rising til 9 in the winter.


You probably like cold showers, pineapple on pizza and Pepsi also.
Dont feed the standard time trolls. They know they're wrong they just like seeking attention like the Flat Earth crowd.
91AggieLawyer
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YellowPot_97 said:

91AggieLawyer said:

Chad Cunningham said:

If there is a permanent time it must be standard time... If you made DST permanent you would have the sun not rising til 9 in the winter.

I don't know where you live, but the latest the sun rose in the DFW area was 7:30am in mid January.

In Cleveland, the latest is 7:53am around the same time. In NYC, its around 7:20am the first week of January.

Where in the hell is it anywhere near 9:00?

DFW sunrise in Jan at 7:30 is on standard time. Go to permanent DST and sunrise is at 8:30. In fact most of Texas would have 8:30-9:00 sunrise in winter.
No thanks.

This is ONLY for a VERY SHORT TIME, not the entire winter.

Amarillo is probably one of the later times in Texas for sunrise in the DEEP winter, and that is late in the 7:00 hour, but only for about 40-ish days from around the 18th to 20th of December until the last week or so of January. Until almost December and from mid-February on, Amarillo's sunrise (standard time) is no later than around 7:30, so it would average at worst 8:30. Hell, it is around 8:12 when DST cuts off in early November, so what is the real difference?

No thanks? Even if you're right (and you aren't), why?? The VAST majority of everyone would much rather have daylight at the end of the day. I advise you to take a trip to Arizona during the summer months and see what it is like to have the sun wake you up at 5:40, and have your outdoor activities cease around 7:20 because it is getting dark. Unless we can all adjust the times we do things (i.e. our jobs, 8-5 type work day, etc.), that would suck for most people.

We're only affected by a shortage of daylight hours 3.5-4 months or so out of the year. The argument is whether the shortage of hours should be at the beginning or end of that time. The vast majority believes it should be the beginning. And they couldn't be any more correct. You can't have athletic or outdoor activities (sports leagues, youth and adult) in the morning prior to school/work. Not enough time and way too disruptive. Plus, it is almost always warmer in the evening than in the morning, even in the winter. You also can't have events that are now traditionally in the evening (school events, parties, etc.) in the morning not only for the same reason but also for the fact that many center around the evening meal. Traffic is a wash. As I've shown, there are several weeks (at least) and possibly a month or more that kids catch the bus and/or walk to school in the dark. To say this is something that would be NEW with a change to full time DST is not misleading, it is a LIE. There are many schools, even elementary schools, that start as early as 7:30am. By your own admission, sunrise is later than that currently on standard time in some areas during certain times of the year.

Essentially, there is NO good reason to have more daylight in the early morning than there is in the early evening. Obviously, we're stuck with the amount, so we have to adjust wisely. Current standard time is not a wise adjustment.
91AggieLawyer
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C@LAg said:

91AggieLawyer said:

Seven Costanza said:

Quote:

Where in the hell is it anywhere near 9:00?




This chart is WRONG. You've been misinformed.

Fargo, ND, for example, has a sunrise NO LATER than 8:12am in late December.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/fargo?month=12&year=2022
No. YOU are WRONG.

look at the image again.

slower this time.

It states it represents what it would be like with PERMANENT DST.

And Fargo, which is on the east side of ND, falls in the 9-9:30 color shading accurately. So 9:12 fits, dead-to-rights.

I stand corrected on the 9 and DST conversion.

However, I am saying is that 8:12 is the LATEST, and it only lasts for about a week. That's not 8:30 (i.e. 9:30 DST). Nowhere near 10:00 anytime. MAYBE other places are. OK, but that almost supports MY point: if they're ALREADY dark until late under standard time (if its going to be CLOSE to 10am under DST, that means CLOSE to 9am NOW), why would it be a problem for Fargo, et.al., to have a few weeks of darker mornings?

In Fargo, daylight starts on Dec. 1 at 7:51am, then ends Jan. at 7:53am. I would say the average of Dec/Jan is somewhere around 8am, making it 9am as you suggest under DST. But that isn't the entire Winter, just about 2 months of it, or more precisely, about 6 weeks of it.

Nobody would call February in Fargo anything but winter, right? Yet, daylight started the month at 7:51am. But it ended the month SIGNIFICANTLY EARLIER at 7:08a.m.

So I will concede that I was wrong about the 9am stuff. But others need to stop saying that the time change would affect morning daylight the entire winter.

IIIHorn
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I could not determine why this is done until it finally dawned on me.

C@LAg
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IIIHorn said:



I could not determine why this is done until it finally dawned on me.


well????

don't keep us in the dark....
Ag with kids
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C@LAg said:

IIIHorn said:



I could not determine why this is done until it finally dawned on me.


well????

don't keep us in the dark....
I know...he needs to enlighten us...
ntxVol
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How about a compromise? Spring forward 30 minutes and leave there instead of a whole hour?
C@LAg
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ntxVol said:

How about a compromise? Spring forward 30 minutes and leave there instead of a whole hour?
that kind of thinking is how you get tu in tte SEC....
cecil77
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Standard time only. Permanent DST is just nuts. Heck DST at any time has never done what it purported to. Rather you're north ot south in zone or east or west. It all averages out. And if you insist on DST, only six months per year, not the insane 8 months it is now.
Ol_Ag_02
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cecil77 said:

Standard time only. Permanent DST is just nuts. Heck DST at any time has never done what it purported to. Rather you're north ot south in zone or east or west. It all averages out. And if you insist on DST, only six months per year, not the insane 8 months it is now.


To paraphrase a poster's overdone bit…..

Ban Standard Time. Everywhere.
C@LAg
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Ol_Ag_02 said:




To paraphrase a poster's overdone bit…..

Ban Standard Time. Everywhere.
ban appropriating my schtick.

everywhere.
 
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