ArcticPenguin said:

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That is terrible. Good lord

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I sincerely hope people who blindly virtue signal for these causes du jour actually educate themselves and do some real critical thinking regarding what they're supporting.

CDUB98 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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frenchtoast said:

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There is a lot of elective surgery that I don't agree with. I don't think I feel strongly enough about it to demand laws to ban it, though.

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And this is why I shrugged off being a libertarian and went back to full on conservative.

Being a conservative means you have to be the adult in the room. It means that sometimes you just have to say no.

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And what gives you the authority/right to decide for another human being what they can do to themselves when it directly harms nobody else?

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Bingo

I can't fathom why you would do this to your arm, if it actually happened ( and I am not sure it did), but it is not my body. Adults do stupid things, like head to toe tattoos

Don't get that either

CDUB98 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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frenchtoast said:

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There is a lot of elective surgery that I don't agree with. I don't think I feel strongly enough about it to demand laws to ban it, though.

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And this is why I shrugged off being a libertarian and went back to full on conservative.

Being a conservative means you have to be the adult in the room. It means that sometimes you just have to say no.

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And what gives you the authority/right to decide for another human being what they can do to themselves when it directly harms nobody else?

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Being right.

Why is crack illegal? Why are their age of consent laws? Why can't 10 year olds buy guns?

We both know the answer.

Urban Ag said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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frenchtoast said:

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There is a lot of elective surgery that I don't agree with. I don't think I feel strongly enough about it to demand laws to ban it, though.

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And this is why I shrugged off being a libertarian and went back to full on conservative.

Being a conservative means you have to be the adult in the room. It means that sometimes you just have to say no.

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And what gives you the authority/right to decide for another human being what they can do to themselves when it directly harms nobody else?

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Being right.

Why is crack illegal? Why are their age of consent laws? Why can't 10 year olds buy guns?

We both know the answer.

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You're conflating two different items. Anything under the age of 18 is not comparable, but you already know that is a strawman.


Being correct is not sufficient. The bottom line is that you do not have a right to use the gov't gun to walk into someone's house and tell them how to live as long as they are not directly harming others. You simply don't. There are countless bodies strewn across this earth through the centuries of various people and gov'ts thinking they were "right" on an issue.

Leave people the hell alone to be dumbasses as long as they don't harm others. It's that simple. The very second they directly harm the rights of others, well, then it is game on.

CDUB98 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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frenchtoast said:

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There is a lot of elective surgery that I don't agree with. I don't think I feel strongly enough about it to demand laws to ban it, though.

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And this is why I shrugged off being a libertarian and went back to full on conservative.

Being a conservative means you have to be the adult in the room. It means that sometimes you just have to say no.

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And what gives you the authority/right to decide for another human being what they can do to themselves when it directly harms nobody else?

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Nothing happens in a vacuum. This transgender movement has been proven to have a "contagious" effect and when a 12 year old is "supported" in this lifestyle for years before turning 18, can you really say they're a consenting party at that point?

We should shut this down fast

CDUB98 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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frenchtoast said:

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There is a lot of elective surgery that I don't agree with. I don't think I feel strongly enough about it to demand laws to ban it, though.

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And this is why I shrugged off being a libertarian and went back to full on conservative.

Being a conservative means you have to be the adult in the room. It means that sometimes you just have to say no.

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And what gives you the authority/right to decide for another human being what they can do to themselves when it directly harms nobody else?

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Being right.

Why is crack illegal? Why are their age of consent laws? Why can't 10 year olds buy guns?

We both know the answer.

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You're conflating two different items. Anything under the age of 18 is not comparable, but you already know that is a strawman.


Being correct is not sufficient. The bottom line is that you do not have a right to use the gov't gun to walk into someone's house and tell them how to live as long as they are not directly harming others. You simply don't. There are countless bodies strewn across this earth through the centuries of various people and gov'ts thinking they were "right" on an issue.

Leave people the hell alone to be dumbasses as long as they don't harm others. It's that simple. The very second they directly harm the rights of others, well, then it is game on.

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Well, the doctor IS doing harm...we can start there.

High drama.

Common sense and morality does not equate to the new Third Reich or Bolshevik Revolution.

We have drunk driving laws. Some people drive just fine drunk. Who are you to say otherwise. Others bring great harm to themselves and society.

Sitting back and letting stupid people do stupid things to themselves is not just or moral.

And what we are talking here specifically is not some shade of grey. It's an atrocity.

The Banned said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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frenchtoast said:

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There is a lot of elective surgery that I don't agree with. I don't think I feel strongly enough about it to demand laws to ban it, though.

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And this is why I shrugged off being a libertarian and went back to full on conservative.

Being a conservative means you have to be the adult in the room. It means that sometimes you just have to say no.

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And what gives you the authority/right to decide for another human being what they can do to themselves when it directly harms nobody else?

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Nothing happens in a vacuum. This transgender movement has been proven to have a "contagious" effect and when a 12 year old is "supported" in this lifestyle for years before turning 18, can you really say they're a consenting party at that point?

We should shut this down fast

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We cannot remove every negative externality from this world. It's literally impossible. Me driving my truck down the street has a negative externality to it from the extraction of the fossil fuel and minerals all the way through the exhaust. I do not condone these kinds of things in any way. I think they are beyond disgusting. I don't think the gov't should be participating in this nonsense and promoting it either. THAT needs to be shut down to the nth degree. That includes state run school all the way through university.

BUT, I'm not going to use the gov't gun to tell two adults they cannot do this.

We have all seen the gov't gun get turned on us since Obama was elected, and we don't like it one bit, but somehow too many conservatives feel justified using the exact same tactic they hate on others. It's incongruent.

Apologies for bowing out, but I've got a 9AM meeting that I'm leading, so I have to bail from the convo. Probably good since the thread is about Frankenpeens and not libertarian vs conservative.

Ag_of_08 said:

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Yall will believe anything you read on twitter....

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Here is your opportunity to educate...

agent-maroon said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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Between this, abortion and Covid, the medical profession has proven to be without ethics.

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Would you please keep that wide-ass brush of yours off of me while you're painting?

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Beast of Burden said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Yall will believe anything you read on twitter....

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Here is your opportunity to educate...

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He gone.

They aren't doing this to themselves. Doctors are doing it and if you use common sense, it's obviously harmful. So if someone wants to cut themselves up, fine. But doctors who do it should lose their licenses.

Are you also for elective arm or leg amputations? This is where libertarians lose a lot of people BTW.

GeorgiAg said:

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I ain't googling that.

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You voted for the freaks that advocate for this sh*t. Own it.

It is extremely depressing that people cannot accept who they are and resort to these procedures. If you are gay, I wish you could accept the fact that you are feminine/woman in a man's body or a man/masculine in a woman's body.

I ain't googling any of that. This is some Nazi experimentation ***** Mengele would approve.

redcrayon said:

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They aren't doing this to themselves. Doctors are doing it and if you use common sense, it's obviously harmful. So if someone wants to cut themselves up, fine. But doctors who do it should lose their licenses.

Are you also for elective arm or leg amputations? This is where libertarians lose a lot of people BTW.

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I'm not FOR any of this nonsense.

The issue is still one between two consenting adults that does not harm others.

If some moron wants to lop off a leg, and there's a dipshot doctor and facility willing to do it, so be it.

The reason Libertarian leaning people lose others is because they are unwilling to give up that control over others. It's about power and control. It's no different than the philosophy of the progressives. They believe they are just as right as you.

If everyone would stop trying to control others, but harshly enforce penalties as soon as infringement is caused to another, we'd all be better off.

Self mutilation like this is, as far as I'm concerned, a serious mental disorder.

Encouraging others to mutilate themselves has to be the ultimate hatred for others and likely driven by their own self-loathing.

"Not everyone can be saved," especially from themselves, is universally true. "Suffer no fools" is often the best personal guideline to maintain peace of mind. She is a lost soul, and it's very unfortunate. It happens.

If this person had been born a male, she/he/whatever would be cutting off the plumbing and adding a hole.

I wonder what percent of people who have the operations, either way, are happier after than they were before.

Or should that be, less miserable after than before. After all, one would have be extremely miserable to even consider the idea.

Squadron7 said:

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First do no harm, my azz.

This is a girl’s forearm. Her muscles have been farmed to create a fake phallus that doesn’t function. They will try to make her a fake urethra. She’ll probably be incontinent, she will certainly never function like a man. And her muscles won’t grow back.

Google ‘phalloplasty’ pic.twitter.com/ECEbjHnLuf

— Dr. Anastasia Maria Loupis (@DrLoupis) March 1, 2023

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It so barbaric.

The treatments for this were much simpler when we just called it a mental illness.

_mpaul said:

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Nope. If you're 18+ and want to mess around with your one and only body, that's your right and not my concern. Just don't ask me to pay for it.

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It goes beyond that. Doctors have an oath to help people. This is exactly the opposite, and scary as hell.

The other side of this is no bed of roses either. The process for a vagioplasty will make you cringe. Picture cutting a hot dog down the middle and folding it back.

Brittmoore Car Club said:

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Most doctors have proven to be trash. True, evil perverse ones that lop the breasts off of 12 year old girls and mutilate peoples' genitals are next level...but the vast majority of doctors are sheep who are just good at memorizing things and blindly taking orders.

I don't think people realize how truly compromised our medical and scientific communities have become.

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Truth. They do what the governing authorities tell them otherwise they have no legal leg to stand on in court if they get sued. The core evil are the likes of the CDC, NIH, AMA, FDA, WHO, etc. completely corrupt.

CDUB98 said:

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redcrayon said:

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They aren't doing this to themselves. Doctors are doing it and if you use common sense, it's obviously harmful. So if someone wants to cut themselves up, fine. But doctors who do it should lose their licenses.

Are you also for elective arm or leg amputations? This is where libertarians lose a lot of people BTW.

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I'm not FOR any of this nonsense.

The issue is still one between two consenting adults that does not harm others.

If some moron wants to lop off a leg, and there's a dipshot doctor and facility willing to do it, so be it.

The reason Libertarian leaning people lose others is because they are unwilling to give up that control over others. It's about power and control. It's no different than the philosophy of the progressives. They believe they are just as right as you.

If everyone would stop trying to control others, but harshly enforce penalties as soon as infringement is caused to another, we'd all be better off.

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Sorry but we can't allow doctors to do whatever a patient wants, consequences be damned. Doctors are required to be licensed. Harming a patient in this way should result in license revocation. First, do no harm.

Again, this is the logical end of libertarianism. I understand you have to follow it to it's end to not be considered inconsistent but common sense has to come in to play. This is not okay and you know that. But it is common ground for libertarians and progressives so there's that.

In their minds, they are not harming, they are helping. "Gender affirming care."

Regardless of what you and I think of this disgusting practice and its endpoint, the people in power from government, to medical associations, to hospital administrators all believe they are doing the right thing.

We believe they are not. The simple difference is I'm not going to point the gun of the government at their heads and force them to believe what I do, despite how correct it is. This is a decision between two consenting adults.

I think you're on the wrong side of history on this one.

CDUB98 said:

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In their minds, they are not harming, they are helping. "Gender affirming care."

Regardless of what you and I think of this disgusting practice and its endpoint, the people in power from government, to medical associations, to hospital administrators all believe they are doing the right thing.

We believe they are not. The simple difference is I'm not going to point the gun of the government at their heads and force them to believe what I do, despite how correct it is. This is a decision between two consenting adults.

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Kinda like the COVID vaccines?

Agree to disagree. But when tax dollars start paying for disabled people maimed by doctors, I expect a change of heart. This is a perfect example of why libertarians can't get a foothold with people like me. The logical conclusion is too far.

redcrayon said:

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CDUB98 said:

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In their minds, they are not harming, they are helping. "Gender affirming care."

Regardless of what you and I think of this disgusting practice and its endpoint, the people in power from government, to medical associations, to hospital administrators all believe they are doing the right thing.

We believe they are not. The simple difference is I'm not going to point the gun of the government at their heads and force them to believe what I do, despite how correct it is. This is a decision between two consenting adults.

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Kinda like the COVID vaccines?

Agree to disagree. But when tax dollars start paying for disabled people maimed by doctors, I expect a change of heart. This is a perfect example of why libertarians can't get a foothold with people like me. The logical conclusion is too far.

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I would be extremely surprised if any real Libertarian would be in favor of paying for this with tax money.

eric76 said:

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redcrayon said:

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CDUB98 said:

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In their minds, they are not harming, they are helping. "Gender affirming care."

Regardless of what you and I think of this disgusting practice and its endpoint, the people in power from government, to medical associations, to hospital administrators all believe they are doing the right thing.

We believe they are not. The simple difference is I'm not going to point the gun of the government at their heads and force them to believe what I do, despite how correct it is. This is a decision between two consenting adults.

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Kinda like the COVID vaccines?

Agree to disagree. But when tax dollars start paying for disabled people maimed by doctors, I expect a change of heart. This is a perfect example of why libertarians can't get a foothold with people like me. The logical conclusion is too far.

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I would be extremely surprised if any real Libertarian would be in favor of paying for this with tax money.

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He was talking about the eventual need for care because some doctor mutilated their plumbing and eventually they can't work, go crazy, harm themselves further, get drug addicted, etc. Many will without doubt end up racking up huge medical bills that medicare or medicaid will pay for and end up on SS disability. It's a certainty.

CDUB98 said:

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In their minds, they are not harming, they are helping. "Gender affirming care."

Regardless of what you and I think of this disgusting practice and its endpoint, the people in power from government, to medical associations, to hospital administrators all believe they are doing the right thing.

We believe they are not. The simple difference is I'm not going to point the gun of the government at their heads and force them to believe what I do, despite how correct it is. This is a decision between two consenting adults.

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Sure, they may believe they are helping nor harming. Maybe some. I believe most know that it's going to cause the patient and lot of pain and suffering over time but do it anyway for reasons.

Point is, we live in an age of pure madness. This is literally what madness looks like. You know what you and I believe is right. You know this is an atrocity. We are sliding for far so fast. This is one of those issues where I simply can not waive it off and say "not my problem, two consenting adults". I just can't and won't. Right and wrong exist. They have always existed and people have gone to much more extreme levels than banning genital mutilation to do what they believed was right and just.

Y'all are right, we will have to agree to disagree on whether a law is needed.

However, I have already stated on this thread that I want zero tax dollars going to this before, during, or after.

Kind of a wild tangent but i wonder what the application of AI in the medical field will do to affect procedures like this and the decisions involved. Seems like it would open up an interesting/messy suite of legislation.