The Swamp, left & right, are about to run a train on the middle class.

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ProgN
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8:20p, 3/1/23
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11808639/Senators-quietly-meeting-retool-Social-Security.html

Quote:
A group of bipartisan senators is quietly meeting to retool Social Security before funds run out in 2032.

On the table, according to Semafor, is gradually raising the retirement age to 70 and creating a $1.5 trillion sovereign wealth fund, which would invest in stocks.

That fund would be separate from the already existing Social Security Trust Fund. If it underperformed, Social Security would be shored up by increasing the maximum taxable income and payroll taxes.
WHEN it underperforms, the increase of our income taxes and businesses payroll taxes will be mandatory 'because it's the law' and the elite in DC will just say that their hands are tied.

Who runs the portfolio of stocks "on our behalf" because it will be easy to underperform and then have the obligation to raise taxes on the working class? This will decimate the working class and small business owners. This will create the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the elites and it will be codified into law. Red or Blue, this law would affect us all and we need to focus on shutting this **** down instead of focusing on pronouns and social issues that they are distracting us with.

Quote:
Leading the efforts are Sens. Bill Cassidy, a Louisiana Republican, and Angus King, a Maine independent who caucuses with the Democrats.

Semafor and The Hill newspaper reported that other Republicans involved are Sens. John Cornyn, Mitt Romney and Mike Rounds.
Quote:
Romney told the publication that he believed the Social Security bill would be introduced later this year.


'I'm not sure it'll pass this year, but obviously, it's a huge topic with enormous interest, and the fact that we have both Medicare and Social Security that are slated to become insolvent within a decade suggests that we need to make sure to save them.'
This will destroy all of our families and this is not hyperbole.
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YouBet
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8:26p, 3/1/23
AG
Yeah, that's bull***** That investment fund will be run just like pensions. They will assume 10% returns in perpetuity and get so out of whack from reality you get underwater.

Not that I'm fan of this, but I still don't understand why they haven't just proposed raising the income max on SS as a first step and buy themselves a few decades. That would get almost no pushback from the public or not enough to matter IMO. That's an easy class warfare battle for Dems to win.
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C@LAg
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8:27p, 3/1/23
with this administration, the train will derail itself pretty quickly.

buttigieg has a rail team standing by.
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C@LAg
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8:28p, 3/1/23
or... get rid of social security.

problem solved.
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Rapier108
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8:28p, 3/1/23
The Democrats have been pushing "Republicans are going to cut Social Security" since the election.

They're going to get the Republicans to vote for this, but it won't end up passing, and they'll have their talking point with proof for 2024.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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Franklin Comes Alive!
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8:30p, 3/1/23
Or we could just quit doing this goofy **** & let people save/invest their own money
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policywonk98
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8:39p, 3/1/23
AG
Personal responsibility revolution needs to take place in a bad way in this country.

Youngins need to learn that government is not the answer for virtually anything. Especially medical care and retirement. Its the problem not the solution.



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Rapier108
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8:43p, 3/1/23
Best fix for Social Security is something similar to what Bush 43 was proposing.

Over a certain age, no changes.

Under a certain age, no social security, but the deduction goes into a personal retirement account you manage, but cannot take money out except for retirement, or the other rules that govern taking money out of Social Security.

Between those ages, you can choose which option you want. Either stay in as is, or if you want out, you'd get a 1 time check from the government, based on how much you paid in, to start your private account.

This way over time, Social Security would wither away and die; and people would have control over more of their own money.

I know people rail on Bush, but he did have the right idea about what to do about Social Security (and the impending housing market crash), but the Democrats blocked fixing both things.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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C@LAg
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In reply to policywonk98 • 8:44p, 3/1/23
policywonk98 said:
Personal responsibility revolution needs to take place in a bad way in this country.

Youngins need to learn that government is not the answer for virtually anything. Especially medical care and retirement. Its the problem not the solution.



that ship long sailed.

this does not change without a complete collapse/reset

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houag80
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In reply to ProgN • 8:47p, 3/1/23
AG
All the usual suspects...
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AgLaw02
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8:47p, 3/1/23
AG
There's no fix for SS that doesn't involve a combo of raising taxes and decreasing benefits. Any serious policy proposals will include both. The only alternative is to kill it entirely but that's political suicide.
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C@LAg
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8:49p, 3/1/23
also... would need to make the changes part of a constitutional amendment or something.

otherwise both parties will play with it for political points and change via legislation when politically expedient for them.
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C@LAg
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8:50p, 3/1/23
what we need is a virus that targets and kills mostly the elderly.

oh wait....
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OverSeas AG
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8:51p, 3/1/23
AG
Exactly what Plato warned about…. The democrazies will vote out Treasury and beg for a strong man to come and save them.

Let SS die, now.
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JohnLA762
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8:51p, 3/1/23
AG
I have a feeling…

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techno-ag
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8:52p, 3/1/23
AG
Trump will fix it.
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ShaggySLC
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8:52p, 3/1/23
Welcome to America since Bush 88, slow crawl.
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Ags4DaWin
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8:56p, 3/1/23
There is no way to legitimately fix a ponzi scheme in which the majority of the voting public spent 40 years of their lives paying into and which they feel they feel they need to get their cut from.

The way it has paid out until now is that every person who has collected has gotten more than they put in.

When people were dying before 70 and thus largely contributing more than they received it was feasible.

It was like retirement insurance u bought from the government. Most people pay alot But few collect in full...just like insurance.

But that changed as people lived longer and as the government increased the scope of benefits.

A plan like that has to fail eventually
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nortex97
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In reply to ProgN • 8:57p, 3/1/23
AG
Newsflash, we are all going to get ****ed by the swamp because the social security 'trust fund' is ****ed. Algore's lame pandering before even tipper got sick of his **** probably ended the ability to discuss it rationally as a bipartisan political topic.

I wouldn't trust a single cretin in congress to come up with a plan to fix it fairly, nor more importantly would I trust any of their advisors/lobbyists.

I'm almost 50 and have long resigned myself to the fact that if I do somehow make it to 70 I might get the equivalent of a few thousand bucks a year from the FDR-Dem-Communist program. I'd advise anyone my age or older to similarly embrace reality.
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ProgN
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In reply to Ags4DaWin • 8:58p, 3/1/23
Ags4DaWin said:
There is no way to legitimately fix a ponzi scheme in which the majority of the voting public spent 40 years of their lives paying into and which they feel they feel they need to get their cut from.
I'm 50 and have paid in since before I was 16 but would gladly 'donate' it if they'd let me out and self-direct all future contributions. Politicians would lose their slush fund so it will never happen.
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Ags4DaWin
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In reply to ProgN • 9:00p, 3/1/23
ProgN said:
Ags4DaWin said:
There is no way to legitimately fix a ponzi scheme in which the majority of the voting public spent 40 years of their lives paying into and which they feel they feel they need to get their cut from.
I'm 50 and have paid in since before I was 16 but would gladly 'donate' it if they'd let me out and self-direct all future contributions. Politicians would lose their slush fund so it will never happen.


You are one of the few.

I cannot count how many age 50+ posters on here have vehemently said- I paid all my life, I am getting my due.

It is true...if you took 75 cents on the dollar what u put in at this point, relinquished the other 25 percent as a gift and just invested that 75 percent in an s&p fund you would do better than what social security is going to give you.

God I wish they would let us do that.
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nortex97
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In reply to ProgN • 9:10p, 3/1/23
AG
ProgN said:
Ags4DaWin said:
There is no way to legitimately fix a ponzi scheme in which the majority of the voting public spent 40 years of their lives paying into and which they feel they feel they need to get their cut from.
I'm 50 and have paid in since before I was 16 but would gladly 'donate' it if they'd let me out and self-direct all future contributions. Politicians would lose their slush fund so it will never happen.
Like all 'government benefits' programs it's always been a scam. The answer should be to allow people who are younger to optionally pay to withdraw from the program earlier (over a period of time) with self directed funds so that…fewer dependents are created.

A 'nortex401K' tax provision allowing for 20-40 year olds to contribute funds to 'buy out' of social security (over something like 10 years) so they can invest and manage their own retirement at their discretion/risk preferences would both stoke the market and fuel social security for 10-20 years.

But the commies would never support letting young people off the trough, or the appearance of a crisis they can pander to solving.

A sane plan would also tie social security future payments to US T-bill bond ratings. If the gov't takes on too much debt, payments go down. Duh. Stop sending hundreds of billions to Ukraine or green new manchin deal etc.
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ApachePilot
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9:15p, 3/1/23
AG
I've already come to grips with the fact I'll pay in all my life and get nothing in return.
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MaroonStain
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9:27p, 3/1/23
AG
Newsflash: there is no Social Security fund. All contributions go into General Fund and all payments are from General Fund. There is no set aside Social Security fund.
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Ol_Ag_02
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In reply to C@LAg • 9:38p, 3/1/23
AG
C@LAg said:
or... get rid of social security.

problem solved.


I'll gladly sign up to forfeit what I've put in if you can stop contributing now.

****ing government Ponzi scheme.
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C@LAg
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In reply to Ol_Ag_02 • 9:41p, 3/1/23
Ol_Ag_02 said:
C@LAg said:
or... get rid of social security.

problem solved.


I'll gladly sign up to forfeit what I've put in if you can stop contributing now.

****ing government Ponzi scheme.
it is one of the last things Republicans have to dangle in front of their primary voting block - old white people.

enough "republicans" have already agreed in concept to give in on immigration and some gun legislation.

It is going nowhere.
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PCC_80
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10:23p, 3/1/23
AG
Quote:
creating a $1.5 trillion sovereign wealth fund, which would invest in stocks.
So they plan on Printing Another $1.5T and dump it all into the Stock Market ? ? ? That would not be inflationary at all. (Sarcasm)

I am sure that it would all be responsibly invested in Green Tech and Companies with very high ESG Scores.

They do not give a **** about Social Security and this will not help it at all. This is a get rich quick scheme that adds $1.5T to the deficit and makes the politicians (that invested wisely in Green Tech and ESG Comps) rich while causing even more inflation.
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schmellba99
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In reply to techno-ag • 10:42p, 3/1/23
AG
There has never been any actual effort into "fixing" SS.

This zero incentive to stabilize it or fix it. Congress is on their own cadillac plan, whatever happens does not affect them. And fixing it woud eliminate a huge political football, and we just cant have that kind of nonsense going on in DC.

This is a prime example of why it will never be fixed - because it is little more than a tool politicians use to bulk money out of us and to leverage when the political winds are favorable.
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sts7049
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11:42p, 3/1/23
AG
I dunno, folks in congress seem to do pretty well with their own stock trading so maybe this fund will do pretty well with returns
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fka ftc
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12:07a, 3/2/23
Unless it includes reparations for the last 2 years of Bidenomics, then its a hard no for me.
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yell_on_6th st
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12:18a, 3/2/23
AG
Somebody dig up FDR and let me piss on him. I'll pay $100, dumb em effer
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TXAGBQ76
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12:30a, 3/2/23
AG
We can debate the pros and cons all day, but according to the SSA website:

"What are the Trust Funds?

The Social Security trust funds are financial accounts in the U.S. Treasury. There are two separate Social Security trust funds, the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund pays retirement and survivors benefits, and the Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund pays disability benefits.

Social Security taxes and other income are deposited in these accounts, and Social Security benefits are paid from them. The only purposes for which these trust funds can be used are to pay benefits and program administrative costs.

The Social Security trust funds hold money not needed in the current year to pay benefits and administrative costs and, by law, invest it in special Treasury bonds that are guaranteed by the U.S. Government. A market rate of interest is paid to the trust funds on the bonds they hold, and when those bonds reach maturity or are needed to pay benefits, the Treasury redeems them."

It also states these funds have never been part of a "General Fund". They have been part of and removed from the "Unified Budget" numerous times, but the funds were separate line items.

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Rodney Ruxin
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In reply to YouBet • 12:43a, 3/2/23
Quote:
Yeah, that's bull***** That investment fund will be run just like pensions. They will assume 10% returns in perpetuity and get so out of whack from reality you get underwater.
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Muktheduck
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In reply to ApachePilot • 1:05a, 3/2/23
ApachePilot said:
I've already come to grips with the fact I'll pay in all my life and get nothing in return.
It's a tax, plain and simple.

It is amusing that by disguising it as some kind of trust fund, you can get a block of people that are vehemently against the welfare state to all of a sudden demand welfare be handed out to them.
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BMX Bandit
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4:52a, 3/2/23
dp





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