schmellba99 said:

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Teslag said:

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The Honda Odyssey has 163 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Chevrolet Suburban has 122.4. The Odyssey has 32 cu ft behind the 3rd row while the Suburban has 41 cu ft behind the 3rd row.

The Odysssey has more passenger voume by far and only 10 cu ft less cargo behind the 3rd row. The Tahoe/Expedition are embarrassinbly bad by comparison.

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The Odyssey has 70+ fewer horses as well. Half the ground clearance. 90 fl-lbs less in torque. Less than half the towing capacity (really not designed to tow at all). 4 less inches in headroom. 4 less inches in leg room. Odyssey isn't available in 4wd drive either.

They aren't the same, not even in the same class of vehicle. Resale is better for the Tahoe versus Odyssey as well.

Plus the Odyssey is ugly AF. Not the ugliest out there, but pretty close.

More quantifiable metrics and all that jazz.

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Many people's assumption is for those driving large SUVs and pickups, they never use the vehicle for towing, or hauling much of anything other than kids and groceries.

Teslag said:

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The Honda Odyssey has 163 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Chevrolet Suburban has 122.4. The Odyssey has 32 cu ft behind the 3rd row while the Suburban has 41 cu ft behind the 3rd row.

The Odysssey has more passenger voume by far and only 10 cu ft less cargo behind the 3rd row. The Tahoe/Expedition are embarrassinbly bad by comparison.

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I've had both although quite a few years ago now. Had GMC Yukon XL version. Both were great. Of course the Yukon had a 350 cu in V8 and probably averaged about 15 mpg, But we also used it to tow a 7,000 lb travel trailer. Couldn't do that with the Honda.

Those videos got me curious. We did payments on my wife's car because it was zero interest. (Definitely worked in my favor the last year.)

Anyhow, I asked her if she even knew the payment amount and she didn't. SMH

You're the exception when it comes to the SUV, which was called out in an earlier post. Most SUV drivers are women who hall around kids, not trailers.

I was assured by Chrysler Financial this weekend at NADA that they are gonna repo all those cars because they are already sitting on a ton of cash. I literally rolled my eyes at the guy when he said that. He also said that they are starting to open up loans to folks with multiple car notes. I told him he was playing with fire. He said, "nah! We can afford to take the risk."

Ahhh.... captive finance definitely has a different risk than banks.

Guess how much of your business it is what a man chooses to do with his suburban or dually.... zero.

Not sure which banks your dealing with, but have you noticed with Capital One? A couple of my dealers mentioned out they used to jump at the chance for a loan.

You know that invoice is not what the dealer paid for the car?

'Holdback'

https://autos.yahoo.com/dealer-invoice-pay-160000215.html

These days invoice would be a great deal on most cars

Keep electing democrats and they will go higher.

Bubblez said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Teslag said:

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The Honda Odyssey has 163 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Chevrolet Suburban has 122.4. The Odyssey has 32 cu ft behind the 3rd row while the Suburban has 41 cu ft behind the 3rd row.

The Odysssey has more passenger voume by far and only 10 cu ft less cargo behind the 3rd row. The Tahoe/Expedition are embarrassinbly bad by comparison.

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The Odyssey has 70+ fewer horses as well. Half the ground clearance. 90 fl-lbs less in torque. Less than half the towing capacity (really not designed to tow at all). 4 less inches in headroom. 4 less inches in leg room. Odyssey isn't available in 4wd drive either.

They aren't the same, not even in the same class of vehicle. Resale is better for the Tahoe versus Odyssey as well.

Plus the Odyssey is ugly AF. Not the ugliest out there, but pretty close.

More quantifiable metrics and all that jazz.

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Many people's assumption is for those driving large SUVs and pickups, they never use the vehicle for towing, or hauling much of anything other than kids and groceries.

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But some use them for going down dirt roads, through mud and over rough terrain that a minivan would die in (speaking from experience).

aTm2004 said:

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And it's effing silly. Reminds me of this…

Does this dealership realize this makes them all look really bad???? pic.twitter.com/RGhOoMznXt

— Jessica Ray (@jessicaray0) August 27, 2022

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Saw that awhile back. I feel like a vulture circling watching that knowing how it is going to turn out for at least some if not all of them

Teslag said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

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Great purchase. Another issue I see is when many morons buy a Surbaban/Tahoe/Expedition etc instead of a minivan which is better for all aspects instead of towing. And men buy these for their wives purely out of insecurity because "they don't want to be seen driving a minivan". Tons of wasted dollars there for personal insecurity.

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What about hauling significant amount of cargo (people, luggage, etc) long distances and off-road (mud, rocks, etc). Is that a stupid investment asks the suburban owner or should I have bought a minivan or a Tesla for that kind of driving?

schmellba99 said:

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Teslag said:

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The Honda Odyssey has 163 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Chevrolet Suburban has 122.4. The Odyssey has 32 cu ft behind the 3rd row while the Suburban has 41 cu ft behind the 3rd row.

The Odysssey has more passenger voume by far and only 10 cu ft less cargo behind the 3rd row. The Tahoe/Expedition are embarrassinbly bad by comparison.

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The Odyssey has 70+ fewer horses as well. Half the ground clearance. 90 fl-lbs less in torque. Less than half the towing capacity (really not designed to tow at all). 4 less inches in headroom. 4 less inches in leg room. Odyssey isn't available in 4wd drive either.

They aren't the same, not even in the same class of vehicle. Resale is better for the Tahoe versus Odyssey as well.

Plus the Odyssey is ugly AF. Not the ugliest out there, but pretty close.

More quantifiable metrics and all that jazz.

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Which is why I specifically said for those that the comparison doesn't apply to those who tow and live on rough terrain.

ChemEAg08 said:

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Teslag said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

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Great purchase. Another issue I see is when many morons buy a Surbaban/Tahoe/Expedition etc instead of a minivan which is better for all aspects instead of towing. And men buy these for their wives purely out of insecurity because "they don't want to be seen driving a minivan". Tons of wasted dollars there for personal insecurity.

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What about hauling significant amount of cargo (people, luggage, etc) long distances and off-road (mud, rocks, etc). Is that a stupid investment asks the suburban owner or should I have bought a minivan or a Tesla for that kind of driving?

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You're an exception and you know it. Rhonda, in her $85k Escalade, isn't hauling travel trailers or going off road (intentionally). She's hauling kids and their stuff to and from school/practice/doctors, etc. For majority of SUV owners, a minivan would be a better fit, but pride won't allow it.

My cousin is a great example of this. Pregnant with #6, and drives an Expedition XL. She's one of the "will never own a minivan" camp, no matter how cramped the kids are. It's sole purpose is a kid hauler and family vehicle. Her husbands truck is the tow/haul vehicle.

ChemEAg08 said:

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Teslag said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

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Great purchase. Another issue I see is when many morons buy a Surbaban/Tahoe/Expedition etc instead of a minivan which is better for all aspects instead of towing. And men buy these for their wives purely out of insecurity because "they don't want to be seen driving a minivan". Tons of wasted dollars there for personal insecurity.

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What about hauling significant amount of cargo (people, luggage, etc) long distances and off-road (mud, rocks, etc). Is that a stupid investment asks the suburban owner or should I have bought a minivan or a Tesla for that kind of driving?

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Addressed aleady. The odyssey has more passenger volume and almost as much luggage capacity behind the 3rd row. And already made an exception in a prior post about rought terrain.

aTm2004 said:

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ChemEAg08 said:

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Teslag said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

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Great purchase. Another issue I see is when many morons buy a Surbaban/Tahoe/Expedition etc instead of a minivan which is better for all aspects instead of towing. And men buy these for their wives purely out of insecurity because "they don't want to be seen driving a minivan". Tons of wasted dollars there for personal insecurity.

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What about hauling significant amount of cargo (people, luggage, etc) long distances and off-road (mud, rocks, etc). Is that a stupid investment asks the suburban owner or should I have bought a minivan or a Tesla for that kind of driving?

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You're an exception and you know it. Rhonda, in her $85k Escalade, isn't hauling travel trailers or going off road (intentionally). She's hauling kids and their stuff to and from school/practice/doctors, etc. For majority of SUV owners, a minivan would be a better fit, but pride won't allow it.

My cousin is a great example of this. Pregnant with #6, and drives an Expedition XL. She's one of the "will never own a minivan" camp, no matter how cramped the kids are. It's sole purpose is a kid hauler and family vehicle. Her husbands truck is the tow/haul vehicle.

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Fightin_Aggie said:

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You know that invoice is not what the dealer paid for the car?

'Holdback'

https://autos.yahoo.com/dealer-invoice-pay-160000215.html

These days invoice would be a great deal on most cars

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Yes, I know.

It is my "meeting them halfway" offer. I consider "invoice" to be where the dealer's gross margin begins. Anything above that, it is gravy. Anything below, you're starting to hurt the dealer and can create a bad relationship. Incentives are paid by corporate as far as I know, so it does not affect the dealer's margin. I could be wrong there.

Anyway, the way things are going with car prices, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to buy new again, so it may not matter much at all.

Invoice is actually exactly what a dealer pays (and pays interest on). While hold back is a definite (eventual) source of revenue on new vehicle sales, it usually barely covers interests, sales minimum commissions, gas, etc... there's no real "gotcha" to hold back IMO. The manufacturers need and keep it in place for their own cash flow benefit - not the dealerships.

Do dealers get kick backs from financing companies? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Bubblez said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Teslag said:

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The Honda Odyssey has 163 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Chevrolet Suburban has 122.4. The Odyssey has 32 cu ft behind the 3rd row while the Suburban has 41 cu ft behind the 3rd row.

The Odysssey has more passenger voume by far and only 10 cu ft less cargo behind the 3rd row. The Tahoe/Expedition are embarrassinbly bad by comparison.

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The Odyssey has 70+ fewer horses as well. Half the ground clearance. 90 fl-lbs less in torque. Less than half the towing capacity (really not designed to tow at all). 4 less inches in headroom. 4 less inches in leg room. Odyssey isn't available in 4wd drive either.

They aren't the same, not even in the same class of vehicle. Resale is better for the Tahoe versus Odyssey as well.

Plus the Odyssey is ugly AF. Not the ugliest out there, but pretty close.

More quantifiable metrics and all that jazz.

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Many people's assumption is for those driving large SUVs and pickups, they never use the vehicle for towing, or hauling much of anything other than kids and groceries.

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I think it's an anecdotal assumption, however, everyone I know with a suburban size SUV use it only for the space, not towing, off road etc

You know, people out there like the look of a Tahoe over a minivan.

Most of us are living in houses with far more square footage than we actually *need*.

But you aren't driving by their houses or parking next to then everyday doesn't generate the same amount of spite.

Fightin_Aggie said:

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You know that invoice is not what the dealer paid for the car?

'Holdback'

https://autos.yahoo.com/dealer-invoice-pay-160000215.html

These days invoice would be a great deal on most cars

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Both F150s I bought, last being 2018, invoice was about 10% too high. (There was a $2000 rebate tied to financing with ford at 4.9 or 5.9 that I refied to 2.75 or something)

We will be there again soon.

Kickbacks? No... no different than your mortgage broker making money off of interest on a loan they arrange or your bank loaning at 5% when money was costing them zero. It can be a means of revenue, yes.

Prior to the Covid nonsense, consumers typically paid less for vehicles than dealers. The manufacturer wants high MSRPs that they can rebate if necessary. Dealerships pay interest on vehicles based on invoice with no regard to rebates.... the manufacturers would rather have a $70k MSRP and offer a $20k rebate than sell a vehicle with a $50k MSRP. (Dealerships would prefer the opposite).

Tom Doniphon said:

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Prior to the Covid nonsense, consumers typically paid less for vehicles than dealers.

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No they didn't. If this was typical, then dealerships would typically go out of business.

You couldn't be more wrong... but for ****s and giggles, put your money where your mouth is before I show how asinine your statement is.

Ohhhh, dis beatdown about to be good.

In a normal market it's the service department, pre owned cars and finance is where the profit is at.

Tom Doniphon said:

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You couldn't be more wrong... but for ****s and giggles, put your money where your mouth is before I show how asinine your statement is.

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Manhattan said:

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If you pay the tax and get 0/72, it is an excellent financial decision...

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Link to 6 year, no interest loans.

And if a car company is "giving" you 0%, they are taking it back in the form of a higher initial price,

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99 times out of 100 you're absolutely right, but my wife's client owns a dealership and we got 0% plus the cash rebate and a pretty good discount pff of sticker price on our expedition in December 2021. The kicker was they paid us more for our trade in than we paid for it.

You might want to sit this out. Tom Doniphon knows his **** about the car business.

I could see that. Right now, however, there are no 0% interest rate loans

Teslag said:

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You might want to sit this out. Tom Doniphon knows his **** about the car business.

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Not him, but every other car dealer I have worked with is a damn liar so….

If you buy an American car at invoice they are making money on it.


Most even wouldn't exist anymore with our protections from the state…

Charpie said:

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I could see that. Right now, however, there are no 0% interest rate loans

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I know that. Id have a tesla if there were. Nothing in my post insinuated I thought the scenario was something available to current consumers.