The Honda Odyssey has 163 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Chevrolet Suburban has 122.4. The Odyssey has 32 cu ft behind the 3rd row while the Suburban has 41 cu ft behind the 3rd row.

The Odysssey has more passenger voume by far and only 10 cu ft less cargo behind the 3rd row. The Tahoe/Expedition are embarrassinbly bad by comparison.

aTm2004 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

aTm2004 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Tom Doniphon said:

---

Quote:

---

It was also $72k out the door. That's not a ****load of money. At least it isn't to me.

---

Such a f'ing big baller!

---

There is nothing "baller" about a $72k car, especially one in which the true cost is much lower after fuel and maintenance savings.

---

Say someone buys a Camry for $30k and gas averages $3/gal, that extra $42k will buy enough gas to get them approx 400k miles down the road if they average 30 mpg.

And what kind of maintenance savings does a Tesla have? Still has brakes and tires, but what about the batteries? I honestly don't know, so am curious.

---

If someone is in the market for a basic 4 door sedan then a Tesla is a poor choice. The Camry will suite them better and return better value.

The only maintenance you will need on a Tesla is wiper fluid, tires, and brake pads at 150,000 miles. The car sparingly uses the brakes when slowing or stopping. I don't often use the brake pedal in normal driving.

---

What about if the battery has issues? IIRC, the batter warranties vary by model. A coworker had to replace the batteries in his Civic hybrid, but they were under warranty, otherwise it would have been $7k and he would have probably loaded the car with tannerite.

---

Tesla warranties my battery or 8 years / 150,000 miles but is designed for far longer than that. I will get rid of it in 5 years or so and never see the end of that warranty.

I won't be answering any more EV questions. That's not what this thread is about.

So, you'll get rid of it before the warranty goes out and go buy another $70k vehicle? Sounds like it's much cheaper to own than a chitty Camry.

lb3 said:

---

LMCane said:

---

lb3 said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Allowing 7 year terms spurred the price expansion.

---

The old rule of thumb of not exceeding 3 years income on a house or 6 months income on a car bit the dust long ago. It felt pretty extravagant spending ~3 months salary on my first new car purchase last summer.

---

is this before or after taxes?

---

Pre-tax.

---

interesting!

although that sounds like a ton of money to spend on a car if you use that 6 months pre-tax income

that could be over $60K for many professionals.

for those living in big cities that would be 70-80K for a car!

I can't imagine that is justified by any financial planners.

Teslag said:

---

I won't be answering any more EV questions. That's not what this thread is about.

---

The thread is about vehicle debt, which is directly tied to vehicle costs. You big dicked how speading $72k on a Tesla is a cheaper option than a common sedan, because of fuel costs savings.

I don't keep any car more than 4 or 5 years. Just depends what's out there that spurs my interest. I've always had BMW's in the past and keeping one past warranty is playing with fire.

Sounds like you need to give up on the Germans. Should probably leave the Sweedes and South Africans alone as well.

OP trying to make me feel old. My first house was $35,000. Three bedroom two bathrooms and detached 1 car garage.(note: it had a bigger lot than our current home we just moved into although our current home is just under twice the sq. Ft.). It had a pecan tree and a pear tree.

No, a $72k Tesla is cheaper than a comparable vehicle. A camry isn't that vehicle. And there's nothing "big dick" about a $72k car. The road is full of people driving 3/4 trucks and full size SUV's that easily surpass that number.

And yet still has less head, leg, and shoulder room.

Rear facing car seats. Forced to move the front seat up in all the min and I sat in. Kia Honda and Toyota. Suburban and expedition you can keep. The seat all the way back. Would've kept our highlander if we only had two as there is a ton of room, as long as you don't need to use the third row, and probably would've switched to a palisade or telluride eventually. In the highlander I can put the second row captain chairs back with the rear facing car seats back and be able to keep the driver seat all the way back as well. Just doesn't work when using the third row.

The Telluride/Pallisade are some really sweet looking vehicles.

And it's effing silly. Reminds me of this…

Does this dealership realize this makes them all look really bad???? pic.twitter.com/RGhOoMznXt

— Jessica Ray (@jessicaray0) August 27, 2022

That can't be real. That's just insane. That one girl appeared to be a receptionist with a 1,400 dollar car payment

nortex97 said:

---

Gonna be a lot of pissed of folks if and when that is discussed.

---

especially those of us who have been hitting the annual max since our early to mid 20s.

Teslag said:

---

I don't often use the brake pedal in normal driving.

---

Me either.

aTm2004 said:

---

And it's effing silly. Reminds me of this…

Does this dealership realize this makes them all look really bad???? pic.twitter.com/RGhOoMznXt

— Jessica Ray (@jessicaray0) August 27, 2022

---

Somebody posted that earlier. Was that actually a marketing ploy by a dealership? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Granted I haven't had a car payment since I was like 28, but it was a fraction of those numbers for a pretty upgraded Toyota SUV. There is something wrong with those people if they're not just bull****ting the numbers.

jonb02 said:

---

HumpitPuryear said:

---

schmellba99 said:

---

Highway6 said:

---

Mull this over. Most loans made on boats are either 15 or 20 years. These aren't yachts, just recreational boats from $40,000 to $200,000. The buyer will be upside down on that loan for years.

---

A boat is, almost without exception, a toy. Somethign that isn't considered a necessity for day to day life. Completely different animal IMO, because you buy a boat strictly to go enjoy an activity knowing that it is 100% splurge spending from the moment you decide to even look at buying.

---

For me that's the argument for paying cash. I pay cash for gently used toys like boats and sports cars where the interest rate to borrow is high but try to find the .9% financing deal on new car daily drivers. I figure if I can't pay cash for the toy I shouldn't buy the toy.

Recently bought a boat from a guy that had it financed for for 15 years. Crazy what he would have paid for that boat if he had paid the loan out. Of course most people aren't keeping a boat for 15yrs so they are basically renting it. In his case he had it for two years. Took it out probably 3 or 4 times. Each trip cost him about $3000 if you average his down payment and total of his monthly payment over two years. .

---

I abide by "rent your fun" for this reason. There are no maintenance issues, registrations fees, boat insurance, or storage headaches to deal with when you rent your fun.

---

I agree 1000% that is the best solution for most people but I have mine hanging in the boat house about 12" out of the water and use it very very often. You don't use a boat near as much as you think you will when you have to tow it to the water, launch it, reloaded it at the end of the day, etc. Something the previous owner realized too late.

Ya I own a boat and I couldn't imagine having to rent one. All of my GPS/graph settings are dialed in, I have a ton of my own gear stored on it, and I know what it can and can't do on the water. But I take it out fishing every week too so that makes a difference.

Not gonna start a separate thread on this, but it will be interesting to see how the left's next step in the 'car wars' evolves into taxing heavier vehicles much more, with an eye, of course, on evil pickup trucks.

Quote:

---

Make that, the left has grown even nuttier about the evils of pickup trucks and their owners. The Federalist contributor Chuck DeVore, chief national initiatives officer at the Texas Public Policy Foundation and a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, dropped a thought-provoking op-ed on Monday about the left's ongoing war on "big and scary" pickup trucks, first drawing a contrast between the right to bear arms vs. truck ownership.

Quote:

---

Unlike with the right to bear arms, there is no constitutional amendment protecting our right to own vehicles other than a generally recognized right to move about freely (Crandall v. Nevada, 1867) and, with almost all roads owned by the government, this could become a problem.

With that, the ongoing campaign against "Big Truck" or, as we call them in Texas, simply "my truck" is bound to lead to additional restrictions to "save the planet" and "save the children."

The latest push against large pickup trucks takes two basic forms: They're large and scary and hurt people, and they're bad for the environment, especially with people not really needing them for anything practical.

Before we continue, the ingenious deviousness of "climate activism" gives the left in their loony minds the right to attack or attempt to ban anything and everything they ridiculously decide contributes to anthropomorphic climate change pickup trucks included.

---

---

A car payment is nothing more that a derivative of length of term, amount financed, and interest rate... without knowing those variables, any payment can look incredibly high- or low - and ultimately mean nothing.

Charpie said:

---

So much to unpack here.

• Banks wrote these notes. They wrote them based on credit score and their credit. If it doesn't impact you, why does anyone care how much their car payment is?
• Dealers are in the clear usually after 90 days of the sale. They will make their profit after that time from their bank.
• We are getting ready to see a ton of repos hitting the market. While used car prices are stabilizing, you'll see them drop in the next 3 months. Banks will get those repo'ed cars back, and sell them at auction. Dealers will have used inventory coming.
• New car prices will come back to pre pandemic prices(you're already seeing this with GM and Ford) as supply chain issues continue to resolve.
• Elon Musk is messing with Tesla new car prices that is wreaking havoc on their used cars. It's quite fun to watch.
• Oh, and banks are *******s. Y'all remember that.

---

Sure.. I agree. So when those banks lose money on consumer loans like they did in '08 - don't call on my tax dollars to bail them out. I'm a commercial lender - I guarantee you I wouldn't approve any of the notes to the employees at that car dealership bragging about a mortgage for a car payment…

They will recoup their costs when they sell the repo to a dealership. They have already made their profit.

Tom Doniphon said:

---

A car payment is nothing more that a derivative of length of term, amount financed, and interest rate... without knowing those variables, any payment can look incredibly high- or low - and ultimately mean nothing.

---

We'll knowing that she is driving a $100,000 car clues you in to those details. I'm guessing she is on a 7-8yr term.

I am always wrong said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Allowing 7 year terms spurred the price expansion.

---

A seven-year-old car today would be a 2016 model with roughly 100k miles on it depending on a lot of factors. In 1980, a 1973 model with 100k miles had one two wheels headed for the scrapyard. I think seven year financing is ridiculous too, but cars are built a lot better these days than they used to be.

---

I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

---

What? Lots of people are driving cars that are paid off.

---

I should've been clearer in my original assertion. What I'm implying is that a big percentage of people go buy something else as soon as they pay it off forcing them into car payments in perpetuity. I loved reading about the smart Ags driving older vehicles simply because they are paid off. I drive an '07 Tundra and I'm starting to think it's time to consider trading it in, but these prices on vehicles remind me quickly the value of a paid off vehicle.

Charpie said:

---

They will recoup their costs when they sell the repo to a dealership. They have already made their profit.

---

Oh okay, just like the banks didn't have to worry because they took the houses back in '08? They didn't see any losses whatsoever…

Teslag said:

---

I think we are on the same page but not being clear. Getting a car because it makes you feel better or satisfies an insecurity in how you are perceived by others is a value. People just have trouble admitting that when it comes to large SUV's for many buyers.

---

We are not on the same page, never will be though because you are incapable of looking in the mirror when you crow about insecurities or how you are perceived.

LMCane said:

---

lb3 said:

---

LMCane said:

---

lb3 said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Allowing 7 year terms spurred the price expansion.

---

The old rule of thumb of not exceeding 3 years income on a house or 6 months income on a car bit the dust long ago. It felt pretty extravagant spending ~3 months salary on my first new car purchase last summer.

---

is this before or after taxes?

---

Pre-tax.

---

interesting!

although that sounds like a ton of money to spend on a car if you use that 6 months pre-tax income

that could be over $60K for many professionals.

for those living in big cities that would be 70-80K for a car!

I can't imagine that is justified by any financial planners.

---

That rule of thumb dates back to the 70s or earlier when everyone was broke and had far less disposable income. I doubt I would ever spend anywhere near half a year's salary on a car but with how expensive cars can be today and the availability of 7 year notes, I'm sure lots of people exceed those numbers.

Charpie said:

---

They will recoup their costs when they sell the repo to a dealership. They have already made their profit.

---

How?

Charpie said:

---

They will recoup their costs when they sell the repo to a dealership. They have already made their profit.

---

How are you figuring this? Banks can't really "profit" on repos or foreclosures... and depending on the vehicle note, most banks are dependent on the interest to really make any money.

Teslag said:

---

The Honda Odyssey has 163 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Chevrolet Suburban has 122.4. The Odyssey has 32 cu ft behind the 3rd row while the Suburban has 41 cu ft behind the 3rd row.

The Odysssey has more passenger voume by far and only 10 cu ft less cargo behind the 3rd row. The Tahoe/Expedition are embarrassinbly bad by comparison.

---

The Odyssey has 70+ fewer horses as well. Half the ground clearance. 90 fl-lbs less in torque. Less than half the towing capacity (really not designed to tow at all). 4 less inches in headroom. 4 less inches in leg room. Odyssey isn't available in 4wd drive either.

They aren't the same, not even in the same class of vehicle. Resale is better for the Tahoe versus Odyssey as well.

Plus the Odyssey is ugly AF. Not the ugliest out there, but pretty close.

More quantifiable metrics and all that jazz.

Are car loans being packaged into securities like mortgages are?

Tom Doniphon said:

---

Charpie said:

---

They will recoup their costs when they sell the repo to a dealership. They have already made their profit.

---

How are you figuring this? Banks can't really "profit" on repos or foreclosures... and depending on the vehicle note, most banks are dependent on the interest to really make any money.

---

What I'm getting from this is that Charpie was egregiously wronged by a bank at some point.

I'm not positive but there are always investors looking to buy return... package a few high risk / high yield notes with some lower risk / lower yields and sprinkle some from the middle and there's a buyer somewhere.... or there was when CDs were paying close to zero. Not positive what that market would be today with 4%+ guaranteed money out there.