Base model starts at $25,500. Any bells and whistles of any kind tack on $1500-300 per.

I had two that were paid off until this weekend. One was traded in so we could get something for my soon to be 16 year old.

Safety and emission equipment drive a lot of the price as well. Then the bells and whistles push it over the top. Drove an '03 until '20 when it finally died, replaced it with a 3yr old Pilot that only had 9k on the ODO.

Wife had an '02 that we replaced in '19 and now she wants another car. I might strangle her.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Burdizzo said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Allowing 7 year terms spurred the price expansion.

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A seven-year-old car today would be a 2016 model with roughly 100k miles on it depending on a lot of factors. In 1980, a 1973 model with 100k miles had one two wheels headed for the scrapyard. I think seven year financing is ridiculous too, but cars are built a lot better these days than they used to be.

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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All 4 of ours. Plus both of my parent's cars. And my MIL's car.

That's wild. I bought an XLT in 2005 for just under $30k, one in 2012 for $30k, and then when I bought new in 2020 I moved to an Explorer XLT to keep price around $30k. To see where prices are these days, blows me away.

Pookers said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Well, when people just have to buy the most expensive vehicle they can, this is what happens.

A kid going off to college does not need a 2023 vehicle costing $60K to $90K.

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I'm at a spot in life where I could afford such a car and can't bring myself to make such a financially irresponsible decision for what amounts to nothing more than a toy. Maybe the used car market will get nice in a year or two.

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It depends on the person's interests. Buying a car to impress others will always be foolish. Buying one because you love cars, enjoy driving them, or take a lot of enjoyment from them is different. There's a poster that posts here (KidDoc) who just bought a C8 Vette. He loves the car. He enjoys it and you can tell it adds satisfaction to his life. That has real value. Life is meant to be enjoyed responsibly.

People want the latest and greatest tech and features. The cars that don't have this don't sell as well or at all.
Manufacturers cram barely tested tech features into cars as a result.

Then the costs rise because the manufacturers are recouping their costs.

And with financing that goes out beyond 72 months there isn't much disincentive for prices to come down

Edit: and this is how you get $80,000 pile of junk.

Teslag said:

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Pookers said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Well, when people just have to buy the most expensive vehicle they can, this is what happens.

A kid going off to college does not need a 2023 vehicle costing $60K to $90K.

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I'm at a spot in life where I could afford such a car and can't bring myself to make such a financially irresponsible decision for what amounts to nothing more than a toy. Maybe the used car market will get nice in a year or two.

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It depends on the person's interests. Buying a car to impress others will always be foolish. Buying one because you love cars, enjoy driving them, or take a lot of enjoyment from them is different. There's a poster that posts here (KidDoc) who just bought a C8 Vette. He loves the car. He enjoys it and you can tell it adds satisfaction to his life. That has real value. Life is meant to be enjoyed responsibly.

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I have a late-ish model RWD V8 (that I just paid off) and am considering dumping a supercharger on it, but $12k just seems a lot of money for "fun". Especially when that $12k could get me a fence in the back yard. Been a real struggle.

That's not really his schtick; he's trying to sell a newsletter.

The underlying stats are real though.

I think it's simple. Most people buy at or above the very limit of what they can afford. Subsequently, they have zero savings and if anything happens like job loss, illness, etc, they default and go bankrupt and end out homeless.

Vanity and pride are bad.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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Me: Raises hand.

Have three. One paid off 15+ years ago, one inherited, one bought for cash.

Plus a few projects and farm truck.

Teslag said:

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Pookers said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Well, when people just have to buy the most expensive vehicle they can, this is what happens.

A kid going off to college does not need a 2023 vehicle costing $60K to $90K.

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I'm at a spot in life where I could afford such a car and can't bring myself to make such a financially irresponsible decision for what amounts to nothing more than a toy. Maybe the used car market will get nice in a year or two.

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It depends on the person's interests. Buying a car to impress others will always be foolish. Buying one because you love cars, enjoy driving them, or take a lot of enjoyment from them is different. There's a poster that posts here (KidDoc) who just bought a C8 Vette. He loves the car. He enjoys it and you can tell it adds satisfaction to his life. That has real value. Life is meant to be enjoyed responsibly.

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Whether its paying $12 for a 8oz pour of a craft beer, spending $100+ per person at a steakhouse, spending several thousand on a vacation at some exotic location, or paying $60k+ on vehicle, if one has the financial means, go for it if that is one brings someone joy and satisfaction in life. All of those are luxuries and can be traded down, but life is meant to be enjoyed.

Ag87H2O said:

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Rapier108 said:

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People don't need to buy a $80K pickup just because their neighbor or coworker did.

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I remember when you could buy a decent house for this amount. I'm getting old.

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My first house? $15,000 in 1980.

I ask the same about home prices. How can so many afford current prices with 6% mortgage rates.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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Safety and emission equipment drive a lot of the price as well. Then the bells and whistles push it over the top. Drove an '03 until '20 when it finally died, replaced it with a 3yr old Pilot that only had 9k on the ODO.

Wife had an '02 that we replaced in '19 and now she wants another car. I might strangle her.

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My EX once wanted to sell a car we had for such a short time that we hadn't even received the title in yhe mail yet. I told her I didn't know how to sell I car I didn't have the title paperwork for and that she would have to wait till it came in the mail, and, somehow, I was the A-hole in this situation.

Teslag said:

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Pookers said:

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Teslag said:

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Pookers said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Well, when people just have to buy the most expensive vehicle they can, this is what happens.

A kid going off to college does not need a 2023 vehicle costing $60K to $90K.

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I'm at a spot in life where I could afford such a car and can't bring myself to make such a financially irresponsible decision for what amounts to nothing more than a toy. Maybe the used car market will get nice in a year or two.

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It depends on the person's interests. Buying a car to impress others will always be foolish. Buying one because you love cars, enjoy driving them, or take a lot of enjoyment from them is different. There's a poster that posts here (KidDoc) who just bought a C8 Vette. He loves the car. He enjoys it and you can tell it adds satisfaction to his life. That has real value. Life is meant to be enjoyed responsibly.

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I have a late-ish model RWD V8 (that I just paid off) and am considering dumping a supercharger on it, but $12k just seems a lot of money for "fun". Especially when that $12k could get me a fence in the back yard. Been a real struggle.

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Just depends on what you want or what gives you the most personal return. Remember that life isn't a spreadsheet. My dad saved and pinched pennies his entire life. Owned a law practice and drove a beater car. He always said he'd save for the day when he didn't have to work. Then at 53 he died of a sudden heart attack. He worked his ass off his whole life and never really got to enjoy the fruits of his labor. That's not to say you should be irresponsible, but don't forgo everything just to enjoy nothing.

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Sorry to hear about your Dad; always good to remember tomorrow isn't a guarantee.

Quote:

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It depends on the person's interests. Buying a car to impress others will always be foolish. Buying one because you love cars, enjoy driving them, or take a lot of enjoyment from them is different.

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If you can afford it, sure.

If someone has a high net worth, good income, and no debts, sure, buy a toy and enjoy yourself.

If you're living paycheck to paycheck, a C8 vette is economic suicide.

Jeeper79 said:

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I wonder if this has the potential to become a bubble because of people buying expensive depreciating assets they ultimately can't sustain.

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Iirc something like 1/4 of car notes in the US are already delinquent

I usually trade my wife's vehicle at 150k miles. Hit that mark last summer. My step son's pickup bit the dust around the same time, so he inherited my wife's 2011 Expedition and I found her a very nice 2018 Expedition. I was shocked at the prices of both new and used vehicles. Put 1/2 down and financed the other half. Still pisses me off what I had to pay on it.

I drive a 2017 Powerstroke that is paid for w/195k miles. Nothing wrong with it. My company pays me a stipend for my vehicle plus fuel and maintenance. I will probably hold on to this one to 300k miles.

No savings, no retirement funds.

You'd be shocked at how many people don't realize that social security doesn't pay enough for them to retire at their current standard of living.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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Rapier108 said:

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People don't need to buy a $80K pickup just because their neighbor or coworker did.

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I remember when you could buy a decent house for this amount. I'm getting old.

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My first house? $15,000 in 1980.

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Holy cow! That's dirt cheap even by 1980 standards. Where in the area was that?

AlaskanAg99 said:

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No savings, no retirement funds.

You'd be shocked at how many people don't realize that social security doesn't pay enough for them to retire at their current standard of living.

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As a Millennial, I have a hard time with retirement. I have serious doubts the USD will be around in 30 years for me to fund my retirement. I'm wondering if just buying assets (land) now is the better move.

One factor I haven't seen mentioned, is that the $40,000 per car isn't necessarily to pay for one car.

Aren't a lot of these loans from people buying new cars before they have paid off their old car? And the dealer simply rolls it into a new loan.

Owe $20,000 on current car, trade it in on a new $20,000 car, viola, you owe $40,000

What is the median loan?

AtlAg05 said:

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People don't look at the total cost, they only care about the monthly payment.

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And when car companies give over half a decade to pay it off, many people will put nothing down and take home something they really can't afford but will try and scrape enough to buy it.

There's a reason new cars get repossessed, and it's all because people want to say they own something they want, even if they really can't afford it and car companies making it easy for them.

It reminds me of the housing issue we had in the early aughts where banks made it easy for people to buy new houses, knowing full well that they couldn't afford them. And we all know how that ended.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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I don't disagree, but it begs the question of who still drives a car that's paid off?

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Me: Raises hand.

Have three. One paid off 15+ years ago, one inherited, one bought for cash.

Plus a few projects and farm truck.

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I've got a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 77k miles and a 2009 Ford Fusion with 180k.

I have a 2007 Sequoia and we just bought a used car last week. We are keeping the Sequoia and I just wanted a newer vehicle to drive out of town. All three kids in college have cars and we wanted two cars again.

2019 Highlander certified, $29k, 30,000 miles. Clean carfax. The prices for used Highlanders have been dropping - I think Toyota is coming out with a new body style soon. That car was $39-42k last year.

Ag87H2O said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Well, when people just have to buy the most expensive vehicle they can, this is what happens.

A kid going off to college does not need a 2023 vehicle costing $60K to $90K.

People don't need to buy a $80K pickup just because their neighbor or coworker did.

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I remember when you could buy a decent house for this amount. I'm getting old.

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Watched the Perfect Bid documentary with my kid this weekend.
Its hard to gauge the year but I think it was mid to late 80s. The new 'big screen' tv was $3900 and the new car was ~$7800.


that old Agatha Christie quote comes to mind:

Quote:

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I couldn't imagine being too poor to afford servants, nor so rich as to be able to afford a car

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Jeeper79 said:

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I wonder if this has the potential to become a bubble because of people buying expensive depreciating assets they ultimately can't sustain.

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We can only hope so. The whole economy needs a reset ASAP

CDUB98 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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Rapier108 said:

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People don't need to buy a $80K pickup just because their neighbor or coworker did.

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I remember when you could buy a decent house for this amount. I'm getting old.

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My first house? $15,000 in 1980.

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Holy cow! That's dirt cheap even by 1980 standards. Where in the area was that?

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Small town in the Texas Panhandle.

Yes, I know it's not a normal situation. But it is a good reminder that you can always buy a house or car that's a little smaller, a little less fancy, a few years old, and in the case of a house, in a less popular area.

We still live in an older house, drive older cars, etc. But all are safe and comfortable. Would something fancier be nice? Sure.

But fat retirement accounts are nice, too.

CanyonAg77 said:

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One factor I haven't seen mentioned, is that the $40,000 per car isn't necessarily to pay for one car.

Aren't a lot of these loans from people buying new cars before they have paid off their old car? And the dealer simply rolls it into a new loan.

Owe $20,000 on current car, trade it in on a new $20,000 car, viola, you owe $40,000

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Theoretically yes, but they won't loan you $40k on a $20k car. Probably closer to $35k car with $5k loan pay-0ff, and it doesn't take much to get to $35k on a new car.

CanyonAg77 said:

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One factor I haven't seen mentioned, is that the $40,000 per car isn't necessarily to pay for one car.

Aren't a lot of these loans from people buying new cars before they have paid off their old car? And the dealer simply rolls it into a new loan.

Owe $20,000 on current car, trade it in on a new $20,000 car, viola, you owe $40,000

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NM