Manhattan said:

---

The data has been posted over and over, but the discussion devolves to who has more control over your life, the city or the state, and the answer is the state.

Republicans are always screaming power needs to be at the state level, not city or federal.

---

Completely false

Manhattan said:

---

MooreTrucker said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

MS is my example because it far and away the worst state in every measurable statistic.

---

Then that makes it an outlier.

So for purposes of your argument, leave MS out, then prove your point with the rest.

---

You have 6 other states on the list before you hit a blue one...

---

It takes an almost impressive amount of obtuseness to look at this data and ignore that basically all of the "red state" crime is in blue cities.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

MooreTrucker said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

MS is my example because it far and away the worst state in every measurable statistic.

---

Then that makes it an outlier.

So for purposes of your argument, leave MS out, then prove your point with the rest.

---

You have 6 other states on the list before you hit a blue one...

---

It takes an almost impressive amount of obtuseness to look at this data and ignore that basically all of the "red state" crime is in blue cities.

---

Like I said, he's a walking example of why blue cities are lost. The level of intellectual dishonesty is monumental

Manhattan said:

---

Who writes the laws? Who keeps MS held back as basically a 3rd world state?

---

Are you suggesting that if we gave Mississippi over to democrats at the state level entirely, they would be able to implement policies that dramatically improved the rate at which young black men kill each other? If so what makes you think that, given that such control in blue states has not reduced that rate at all, anywhere, ever? Like there's not a single example of such a circumstance in post-civil rights America.

The only time a Democrat run state has EVER dropped crime rates in a given city, it has been due to demographic manipulation. They redraw maps and dilute out the population of young black men as a percentage of the whole in a calculated area. Red states do this too BTW, but just don't pretend like this is unique to one side of the political aisle. People at the top know what the issue is and that it's largely immune to political policy.

schmellba99 said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

States have absolute control over cities.

---

I mean, i knew you werent smart, but even this surprises me.

So you are telling all of us that the heavily R legislature and R governor of Texas have absolute control over Austin, Houston DFW and SA? So all of the defund the police, no bail, etc are being allowed by the State?

Do you really want to go there? Because i will warn you now - the message board beatdown you will take might not be recoverable if you do.

---

Child-like understanding of the world around xer

Manhattan said:

---

Nobody said it would be paradise…. Live in Maryland, don't live in Baltimore. You can't say the same thing about Texas where the out of city murder rate is much higher than the out of city murder rate in Maryland.

---

If you removed all the counties in Texas with a AA population percentage above 6%, we would not only have the lowest crime rate in the US but one of the 5 lowest in the world. That INCLUDES all of the border counties which are a majority hispanic and are infiltrated by drug violence.

This is true for virtually every state with a significant black population, other than California. Interestingly, if you removed EVERY black person from California they would still be in the top 30 nationally in crime rate.

The true crime outliers in the US are Alaska and New Mexico, and their crime rates are driven by unique social circumstances.

So Texas wouldn't have as high a murder rate if you got rid of Texans.. that circular logic is ridiculous.

Manhattan said:

---

The Banned said:

---

LA removed NO. Baton Rouge, Lake Charles, etc are terrible.

---

Watch the youtube video I posted.

---

I did. An interesting discussion that I agree and disagree with on certain parts. None of which addresses the fact that this study does not show that the rural areas of liberal states are much safer than conservative states though.

Manhattan said:

---

So Texas wouldn't have as high a murder rate if you got rid of Texans.. that circular logic is ridiculous.

---

Just some Texans. The ones who live under a rotten culture.

captkirk said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

The data has been posted over and over, but the discussion devolves to who has more control over your life, the city or the state, and the answer is the state.

Republicans are always screaming power needs to be at the state level, not city or federal.

---

Completely false

---

Someone is equating the federal government has seized too much power from the states with allowing local governments have more power and be more accountable to the local citizens. This is part of the ideology our founding fathers tried so hard to implement and protect.

The Democratic Party leadership has morphed into advocating monolithic authoritarianism as a virtue which is dangerous and leads to disaster.

Manhattan said:

---

MS is my example because it far and away the worst state in every measurable statistic.

---

Blue state New Mexico just sitting over there on the sideline trying to get your attention.

Never mind the Democrat desire to pull in Puerto Rico as a state which is a complete ****hole that has tried many of the darling policies of the left only to continue failing. Including socialized healthcare which failed miserably.

Manhattan said:

---

MS is my example because it far and away the worst state in every measurable statistic.

---

Actually, DC which has a population similar to smaller blue states, is off-the-charts worse than any state with it's murder rate. And it has the highest % of Biden voters of any state.

Teslag said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

So Texas wouldn't have as high a murder rate if you got rid of Texans.. that circular logic is ridiculous.

---

Just some Texans. The ones who live under a rotten culture.

---

The interesting thing to me is all the black men I know that have had a solid father figure to walk with them through the racism they experience all turn out fine. It's only the ones with no father in the home that have issues…. Oddly enough, it affects the white men I've known too.

Manhattan said:

---

So Texas wouldn't have as high a murder rate if you got rid of Texans.. that circular logic is ridiculous.

---

The Texans who commit the overwhelming majority of violent crime, yes. The same is true for every state, and it's the same group in every state.

Your point was that Texas has a decent amount of crime outside the major cities. I'm simply pointing out that doesn't change anything or have any impact on the points you are attempting to refute by making that statement.

The Banned said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

So Texas wouldn't have as high a murder rate if you got rid of Texans.. that circular logic is ridiculous.

---

Just some Texans. The ones who live under a rotten culture.

---

The interesting thing to me is all the black men I know that have had a solid father figure to walk with them through the racism they experience all turn out fine. It's only the ones with no father in the home that have issues…. Oddly enough, it affects the white men I've known too.

---

It has absolutely nothing to do with being black, not inherently at least. It has everything to do with life, cultural and socioeconomic factors. It's just that young black men most consistently have the largest number of factors that correlate with a propensity for violent crime in this country. If you put the same rate of single parent homes, poverty, drug use, etc. in any East Asian or white demographic you'd get similar rates of violent crime. Poor, fatherless Chinese men in China commit a ton of violent crime. Poor, fatherless Russian men in Russia commit a ton of violent crime. Some Eastern European countries have higher rates of violent crime among white men than young black men in America. It's just that in America, the historical and social factors have led to young black men committing the overwhelming majority of violent crime.

Those are just facts and it's wild that it can't be discussed.

We are probably weeks away from being told blacks, in fact, do not commit much of the crime here. It will magically become white people doing all of it.

We already had our first big telegraph of that this year with the 2022 crime stats being underreported or not reported at all. That will become the norm to mask reality.

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

So Texas wouldn't have as high a murder rate if you got rid of Texans.. that circular logic is ridiculous.

---

Just some Texans. The ones who live under a rotten culture.

---

The interesting thing to me is all the black men I know that have had a solid father figure to walk with them through the racism they experience all turn out fine. It's only the ones with no father in the home that have issues…. Oddly enough, it affects the white men I've known too.

---

It has absolutely nothing to do with being black, not inherently at least. It has everything to do with life, cultural and socioeconomic factors. It's just that young black men most consistently have the largest number of factors that correlate with a propensity for violent crime in this country. If you put the same rate of single parent homes, poverty, drug use, etc. in any East Asian or white demographic you'd get similar rates of violent crime. Poor, fatherless Chinese men in China commit a ton of violent crime. Poor, fatherless Russian men in Russia commit a ton of violent crime. Some Eastern European countries have higher rates of violent crime among white men than young black men in America. It's just that in America, the historical and social factors have led to young black men committing the overwhelming majority of violent crime.

Those are just facts and it's wild that it can't be discussed.

---

This is what I was trying to succinctly and sarcastically say. It's just so freaking obvious what's happening. Young boys never taught how to be men by a man that actually loves them turn into criminals at enormously higher rates than men who had a dad teach them how to be a man. It happens with blacks more thanks to good old LBJ and his policies to "help" the black family.

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

So Texas wouldn't have as high a murder rate if you got rid of Texans.. that circular logic is ridiculous.

---

Just some Texans. The ones who live under a rotten culture.

---

The interesting thing to me is all the black men I know that have had a solid father figure to walk with them through the racism they experience all turn out fine. It's only the ones with no father in the home that have issues…. Oddly enough, it affects the white men I've known too.

---

It has absolutely nothing to do with being black, not inherently at least. It has everything to do with life, cultural and socioeconomic factors. It's just that young black men most consistently have the largest number of factors that correlate with a propensity for violent crime in this country. If you put the same rate of single parent homes, poverty, drug use, etc. in any East Asian or white demographic you'd get similar rates of violent crime. Poor, fatherless Chinese men in China commit a ton of violent crime. Poor, fatherless Russian men in Russia commit a ton of violent crime. Some Eastern European countries have higher rates of violent crime among white men than young black men in America. It's just that in America, the historical and social factors have led to young black men committing the overwhelming majority of violent crime.

Those are just facts and it's wild that it can't be discussed.

---

Except this isn't really true. Rich black people have a higher violent crime rate than the poorest whites.

West Virginia is nearly all white, one of the poorest states in the country, but has one of the lowest violent crime rates.

Like I always say, progressives live in a delusion that inhibits their ability to see reality.

And, of course, as always, the only solution is more taxation, more socialism, and more government control of the individual.

Manhattan said:

---

Blue state blue cities are for the most part safer than red state blue cities.

Education, healthcare, and most laws are set by the state.

Texas needs to fix it's bail laws at the state level.

---

BS

Out of wedlock births in a state correlate strongly to murder rate in the state.

When you dig deeper, it is not correlated to who voted for Biden or Trump.

It's cultural, and several posters above made that case well.

Quote:

---

Rich black people have a higher violent crime rate than the poorest whites.

---

The cohorts are too different in size to really make this a meaningful stat though. Statistically virtually all rich people in the United States are of European or Asian descent. There's most likely confounding occurring because of this.

Quote:

---

West Virginia is nearly all white, one of the poorest states in the country, but has one of the lowest violent crime rates.

---

Poor whites in WV have only about half the rate of single parent homes as is seen in AAs below the poverty line in the US. And as soon as you get even to low middle class the discrepancy widens further.

Not growing up with a father figure in the home is the single biggest predictor of negative life outcomes in the western world. Moreso than poverty, religiously, al Phil and drug abuse in the home, etc. And statistically it's not all that close. You're MUCH better off being in a two parent home in virtually any scenario, even if that home is abusive or poor.

What's interesting is children who have a father but not a mother growing up statistically so much better than the other way around. That's always surprised me a bit as the absence of a mother correlates strongly with a lot of negative character and personality traits.

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Quote:

---

Rich black people have a higher violent crime rate than the poorest whites.

---

The cohorts are too different in size to really make this a meaningful stat though. Statistically virtually all rich people in the United States are of European or Asian descent. There's most likely confounding occurring because of this.

Quote:

---

West Virginia is nearly all white, one of the poorest states in the country, but has one of the lowest violent crime rates.

---

Poor whites in WV have only about half the rate of single parent homes as is seen in AAs below the poverty line in the US. And as soon as you get even to low middle class the discrepancy widens further.

Not growing up with a father figure in the home is the single biggest predictor of negative life outcomes in the western world. Moreso than poverty, religiously, alcoho and drug abuse in the home, etc. And statistically it's not all that close. You're MUCH better off being in a two parent home in virtually any scenario, even if that home is abusive or poor.

---

Interesting. I wonder what it is about the dirt/water in West Virginia that keeps people married.

shack009 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Quote:

---

Rich black people have a higher violent crime rate than the poorest whites.

---

The cohorts are too different in size to really make this a meaningful stat though. Statistically virtually all rich people in the United States are of European or Asian descent. There's most likely confounding occurring because of this.

Quote:

---

West Virginia is nearly all white, one of the poorest states in the country, but has one of the lowest violent crime rates.

---

Poor whites in WV have only about half the rate of single parent homes as is seen in AAs below the poverty line in the US. And as soon as you get even to low middle class the discrepancy widens further.

Not growing up with a father figure in the home is the single biggest predictor of negative life outcomes in the western world. Moreso than poverty, religiously, alcoho and drug abuse in the home, etc. And statistically it's not all that close. You're MUCH better off being in a two parent home in virtually any scenario, even if that home is abusive or poor.

---

Interesting. I wonder what it is about the dirt/water in West Virginia that keeps people married.

---

Those who lay with family; stay with the family.

shack009 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Quote:

---

Rich black people have a higher violent crime rate than the poorest whites.

---

The cohorts are too different in size to really make this a meaningful stat though. Statistically virtually all rich people in the United States are of European or Asian descent. There's most likely confounding occurring because of this.

Quote:

---

West Virginia is nearly all white, one of the poorest states in the country, but has one of the lowest violent crime rates.

---

Poor whites in WV have only about half the rate of single parent homes as is seen in AAs below the poverty line in the US. And as soon as you get even to low middle class the discrepancy widens further.

Not growing up with a father figure in the home is the single biggest predictor of negative life outcomes in the western world. Moreso than poverty, religiously, alcoho and drug abuse in the home, etc. And statistically it's not all that close. You're MUCH better off being in a two parent home in virtually any scenario, even if that home is abusive or poor.

---

Interesting. I wonder what it is about the dirt/water in West Virginia that keeps people married.

---

West Virginia is by and large just good people. Spent a decent amount there and it's still majority Christian and believe divorce is wrong. Also still a fan of shotgun weddings to some degree. If it wasn't for the drug problem, it would truly be a great state, even if it was a little light on economic opportunity

According to Manhattan, her problem is she didn't free healthcare not a culture of violence…

Colonization did this pic.twitter.com/8ej8PRUX1o

— E (@ElijahSchaffer) January 28, 2023

etxag02 said:

---

This is a big reality shift away from a common assumption and a popular political narrative that was heavily used in the last election cycle. Unsuccessfully, I might add. Maybe this is why.
https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem

Quote:

---

Takeaways

• The murder rate in the 25 states that voted for Donald Trump has exceeded the murder rate in the 25 states that voted for Joe Biden in every year from 2000 to 2020.
• Over this 21-year span, this Red State murder gap has steadily widened from a low of 9% more per capita red state murders in 2003 and 2004 to 44% more per capita red state murders in 2019, before settling back to 43% in 2020.
• Altogether, the per capita Red State murder rate was 23% higher than the Blue State murder rate when all 21 years were combined.
• If Blue State murder rates were as high as Red State murder rates, Biden-voting states would have suffered over 45,000 more murders between 2000 and 2020.
• Even when murders in the largest cities in red states are removed, overall murder rates in Trump-voting states were 12% higher than Biden-voting states across this 21-year period and were higher in 18 of the 21 years observed.

---

Quote:

---

In this study, we collected homicide data from 2000 through 2020 for all 50 states from the Center of Disease Control Wonder's National Center for Health Statistics Mortality Data. Data is based on death certificates collected by state registries and provided to the National Vital Statistics System. We chose CDC data over FBI data because it's more up to date and does not rely on voluntary reporting from counties and states. All states are required to report mortality data to the CDC; they're only encouraged to report crime data to the FBI. The United States Department of Justice has acknowledged that CDC data is more accurate. (There were four states with several years of missing dataNew Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming. In these instances, we relied on FBI numbers from the Uniform Crime Statistics.)1 To allow for comparison, we calculated the state's per capita murder rate, the number of murders per 100,000 residents, and categorized states by their presidential vote in the 2020 election, resulting in an even 25-25 state split.

---

---

Glad to see many posters pointed out that the highest murder rates are in Democrat-run counties and cities. That fact goes unreported by liberals because they care more about distorting the truth to get votes than about minority peoples' lives.

Why do you hate minorities so much that you continue to support the Democrat party' use of them as plantation workers? Join conservatives and stop pushing minorities to the bottom of the socioeconomic heap with the rest of your liberal friends.

JW said:

---

statistics can be fun. now do counties or Congressional districts

---

Like every one else who posts anything, the stats are only believed if they support one's biases. This isn't a comment about the OPs data (which doesn't seem to account for metro areas etc) but my point is that if these stats supported the majority of peoples political leanings there would be zero question about their validity.

Not so. Imperviousness to evidence is a characteristic of the vision of the anointed rather than the tragic vision.

Quote:

---

"If we wanted to be serious about evidence, we might compare where blacks stood a hundred years after the end of slavery with where they stood after 30 years of the liberal welfare state. In other words, we could compare hard evidence on "the legacy of slavery" with hard evidence on the legacy of liberals.

Despite the grand myth that black economic progress began or accelerated with the passage of the civil rights laws and "war on poverty" programs of the 1960s, the cold fact is that the poverty rate among blacks fell from 87 percent in 1940 to 47 percent by 1960. This was before any of those programs began.

Over the next 20 years, the poverty rate among blacks fell another 18 percentage points, compared to the 40-point drop in the previous 20 years. This was the continuation of a previous economic trend, at a slower rate of progress, not the economic grand deliverance proclaimed by liberals and self-serving black "leaders."
-Thomas Sowell

---

Getting murdered isn't the only way to die either .

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/study-finds-widening-gap-in-death-rates-between-us-areas-that-vote-for-democratic-rather-than-republican-party/

Quote:

---

Americans living in counties that voted Democratic during presidential elections from 2000 to 2016 experienced larger decreases in death rates than residents of counties that voted for a Republican candidate

---

Manhattan said:

---

Getting murdered isn't the only way to die either .

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/study-finds-widening-gap-in-death-rates-between-us-areas-that-vote-for-democratic-rather-than-republican-party/

Quote:

---

Americans living in counties that voted Democratic during presidential elections from 2000 to 2016 experienced larger decreases in death rates than residents of counties that voted for a Republican candidate

---

---

So rural areas have less medical access than cities? Got it.

Manhattan said:

---

Getting murdered isn't the only way to die either .

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/study-finds-widening-gap-in-death-rates-between-us-areas-that-vote-for-democratic-rather-than-republican-party/

Quote:

---

Americans living in counties that voted Democratic during presidential elections from 2000 to 2016 experienced larger decreases in death rates than residents of counties that voted for a Republican candidate

---

---

We're well aware of the poor health care and obesity issues in rural America. Now go check in on the mental health thread.

96AgGrad said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

Getting murdered isn't the only way to die either .

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/study-finds-widening-gap-in-death-rates-between-us-areas-that-vote-for-democratic-rather-than-republican-party/

Quote:

---

Americans living in counties that voted Democratic during presidential elections from 2000 to 2016 experienced larger decreases in death rates than residents of counties that voted for a Republican candidate

---

---

So rural areas have less medical access than cities? Got it.

---

And work more dangerous jobs.

96AgGrad said:

---

Manhattan said:

---

Getting murdered isn't the only way to die either .

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/study-finds-widening-gap-in-death-rates-between-us-areas-that-vote-for-democratic-rather-than-republican-party/

Quote:

---

Americans living in counties that voted Democratic during presidential elections from 2000 to 2016 experienced larger decreases in death rates than residents of counties that voted for a Republican candidate

---

---

So rural areas have less medical access than cities? Got it.

---

And waaaaay fewer thuglits. I'll take that trade all day every day.

Spin spin spin.