Zarathustra said:

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If you classify CO2 as a pollutant then it's only a matter of time before humans are next on the list

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And pets? May try Classify the dog park as a hazardous area and close the park down.

Understand your point and not trying to be a grammar hammer, but semantics matter when you are trying to solve a problem.

The grid needs improvement and most assuredly needs hardening. Feb 2021 was about generation to a very large extent.

With the HUGE fluctuations in temperature and the generation makeup of Texas, improving natural gas plants and building more of them should be a high priority.

Wind and solar are gimmicks. Nuclear and coal are interchangeable from a base load perspective. Nuclear is simpler and safer if the regulators would gtf out of the way.

fka ftc said:

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Remove your last two words as it may bring an edit or bamhammer for an ad hom. Though others may agree with the sentiment.

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Thanks for the warning, but I intentionally said "sounds like" and not "you are". He may or may not be an idiot, I cannot know for sure, but technically what I said is a criticism of his comment, not necessarily the person himself. I'll leave it up to see where the threshold is.

TxAggieBand85 said:

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Zarathustra said:

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If you classify CO2 as a pollutant then it's only a matter of time before humans are next on the list

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And pets? May try Classify the dog park as a hazardous area and close the park down.

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Going outside period is bad for asthma depending on the season and what is blowing around. Too much risk for the children. Ban the outside.

There are actually very good studies showing the beneficial effects of infrared radiation for the body. Decreased Alzheimer's disease, better immunity etc... Incandescent bulbs produce most of there energy in the infrared spectrum. So the shift away from incandescent bulbs may actually be harmful.

Maroon Dawn said:

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It's about Democrats forcing you to use the businesses and industries that Democrats are fully invested in

Simple as that

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Starred this, but…

Would like to add that Europe has played with the idea of smart appliances that can be monitored thru the smart electrical meters, enabling monitoring and on/off control of smart appliances from a remote location.

Just another reason to ban gas. Force them on all electric, mandate smart appliances, and govern yourself more control. /DemocRATS

They aren't going to seize your stove and make you change overnight, it will be planned obsolescence like with the old freon style AC units. Just as you were unable to get the old style freon and the corresponding parts, eventually you will be forced to change to the new earth loving options as your appliances die. In the long term, you won't be able to buy a house with natural gas and you'll have to convert your house when no appliances available work with natural gas.

Over this man's dead body…

BQ78 said:

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They aren't going to seize your stove and make you change overnight, it will be planned obsolescence like with the old freon style AC units. Just as you were unable to get the old style freon and the corresponding parts, eventually you will be forced to change to the new earth loving options as your appliances die. In the long term, you won't be able to buy a house with natural gas and you'll have to convert your house when no appliances available work with natural gas.

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This is how liberals work. They ease you into their hellish world and when it finally impacts you it's too late to change anything. Same thing they want to do with guns, etc.

GAC06 said:

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Asbestos hurt people. HTH

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Only when it became airborne and friable.

Most people would crap themselves to know that a whole lot of water supply piping is asbestos-cement pipe. I always hated digging it up, because we had to follow hazmat protocol when disposing of it and I own a few thousand feet of it in perpetuity in a landfill out west.

PCC_80 said:

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This would kill the restaurant industry. Electric just does not work for restaurants.

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Imagine what it will do to the power grid as well.

fka ftc said:

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Science Denier said:

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When the grid totally failed for 50+ hours, it was nice having a gas stove.

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Quick fact check that the grid operated as intended - it did not fail. Generation failed to meet demand and demand had to be turned off.

Saying the grid needs to be fixed is like buying a new water hose but not paying your water bill.

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Except we had been paying our electric bill

MagnumLoad said:

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fka ftc said:

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Science Denier said:

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When the grid totally failed for 50+ hours, it was nice having a gas stove.

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Quick fact check that the grid operated as intended - it did not fail. Generation failed to meet demand and demand had to be turned off.

Saying the grid needs to be fixed is like buying a new water hose but not paying your water bill.

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Except we had been paying our electric bill

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FIne. Like building a new aqueduct to a lake that has gone dry.

Like replacing pipe that was not leaking / clogged and instead focusing on the supply of what goes in the pipe and expecting something better.

Turns out the other three members on the panel told him this was a stupid idea, and Trumpka withdrew his amendment.

After the Biden stove ban... pic.twitter.com/t8rVF2KkPq

— APOCTOZ (@Apoctoz) January 10, 2023

Another use of the guilt and/or fear approach to prey on peoples emotions and thus have them support an irrational decision. Country is so risk averse now surprised bubble-wrap clothing isnt the latest fashion trend.

fka ftc said:

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Science Denier said:

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When the grid totally failed for 50+ hours, it was nice having a gas stove.

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Quick fact check that the grid operated as intended - it did not fail. Generation failed to meet demand and demand had to be turned off.

Saying the grid needs to be fixed is like buying a new water hose but not paying your water bill.

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The grid failed, I'd demand exceeds generation, they move to rolling blackouts, 50+ hours without electricity in freezing temps is not rolling blackouts.

American Hardwood said:

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TxAggieBand85 said:

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Zarathustra said:

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If you classify CO2 as a pollutant then it's only a matter of time before humans are next on the list

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And pets? May try Classify the dog park as a hazardous area and close the park down.

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Going outside period is bad for asthma depending on the season and what is blowing around. Too much risk for the children. Ban the outside.

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Beaches and parks were closed for lame ass covid so we already hit that Idiocracy milestone.

You used to be able to get stoves that ran on home heating oil.

For example, the Aga cooker often used heating oil and ran 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Some of them were also used to provide hot water for the house.

I wonder if those are still available.

If you aren't familiar with Aga cookers, they are stoves that historically took about six hours to reach the proper temperatures. They had multiple compartments with a different temperature for each compartment. Normally, I think three compartments -- one for warming, one for normal cooking (I would guess around 350 F), and one for baking (I would guess around 450 F).

For the stove top, they had two large heating surfaces, one for warm and one for hot, and had what I think was an insulated cover that folded down to reduce heat loss when not in use. The heating surfaces were large enough that you could put two or three pots on each.

They also make (or at least used to make) Aga cookers that could run on wood, coal, or peat.

Gas stoves for me but not for thee pic.twitter.com/UrXzzlfziQ

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) January 11, 2023

Manhattan said:

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fka ftc said:

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Science Denier said:

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When the grid totally failed for 50+ hours, it was nice having a gas stove.

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Quick fact check that the grid operated as intended - it did not fail. Generation failed to meet demand and demand had to be turned off.

Saying the grid needs to be fixed is like buying a new water hose but not paying your water bill.

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The grid failed, I'd demand exceeds generation, they move to rolling blackouts, 50+ hours without electricity in freezing temps is not rolling blackouts.

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Please stop. The grid did not fail. Its not a semantic thing, its a technical thing. And you live in affluent NY hoods so go play with ConEd and stay the f away from ERCOT.

I was freezing my ass off in Houston in 2021. If the grid didn't fail, why weren't their rolling blackouts instead of pipes bursting and people dying in their homes?

ConEd is a cluster**** because of graft and corruption, ERCOT is a cluster**** for the same reason. Coal plants closed in favor of natural gas plants.

Manhattan said:

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I was freezing my ass off in Houston in 2021. If the grid didn't fail, why weren't their rolling blackouts instead of pipes bursting and people dying in their homes?

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it is not my duty to educate you, just to let you know you are wrong yet again.

it failed, you mentioned you worked for a utility, quit stanning for that failure. People died due to gross incompetence.

Failure- a lack of success or the inability to meet an expectation

Keeping people from dying and their pipes from freezing is the expectation.



This is a huge reason we need to move to decentralized generation, micro grids and home solar and battery.

Did your hose fail if water doesn't come out because you have your water turned off?

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Did your hose fail if water doesn't come out because you have your water turned off?

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Manhattan said:

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I was freezing my ass off in Houston in 2021. If the grid didn't fail, why weren't their rolling blackouts instead of pipes bursting and people dying in their homes?

ConEd is a cluster**** because of graft and corruption, ERCOT is a cluster**** for the same reason. Coal plants closed in favor of natural gas plants.

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Did you huddle around your electric hot plate for warmth and herbal tea?

Debate really should be a required topic in school, you seem to have trouble arguing against the things I post, so you inject some random BS into the conversation and argue against that.

GAC06 said:

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Asbestos hurt people. HTH

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Didn't really know where to put this (and didn't want to start a thread), but twas interesting.
Looks like the owners are Foched.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/climate/brazil-aircraft-carrier-asbestos.html

Quote:

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A decommissioned aircraft carrier, packed with an undetermined amount of asbestos, is being towed in circles off the coast of Brazil after it was refused permission to dock in Turkey for recycling. The problem? No government wants anything to do with it.

Now, the Brazilian Navy says it plans to just sink the ship, the So Paulo, a Clemenceau-class carrier purchased from France in 2000 for $12 million, planes and helicopters not included. Environmentalists say doing so would cause irreparable environmental damage and could be a violation of international law.
. . .
The story of So Paulo's demise started when a Turkish company called Sok Denizcilik bought the ship for just over $1.8 million in an auction in 2021. Its goal was to recycle the vessel, disposing of any waste responsibly while making a profit salvaging and selling the tons of nontoxic metals it contained.
. . .
The 873-foot vessel, which served in the French Navy under the name Foch from 1963 until it was sold in 2000, hadn't been in service for roughly a decade. Some of its compartments have accumulated so much dangerous gas that it is now unsafe to enter them, inspectors said.

Decades ago, when the ship was laid down, there was less understanding and probably less concern about the severe health problems some construction materials could cause. Asbestos, a fire ******ant that was commonly used back then, was later found to be a potent carcinogen.

The lead ship of the class, Clemenceau, was dismantled and recycled in the 2000s after a similarly contentious struggle with environmentalists.

The French authorities reported 45 tons of asbestos aboard Clemenceau, but environmental groups said they had evidence that it contained much more. The vessel was en route to a breaking yard in India when a French court ordered it to return to home waters. Clemenceau was eventually scrapped in Britain.
. . .
On Aug. 4, the decommissioned So Paulo started across the Atlantic under tow, on its way to the breaking yard in Turkey.

Meanwhile, the environmental campaign was picking up steam. Days after the ship departed, Turkish officials asked their Brazilian counterparts for a new inventory of hazardous substances. Dissatisfied with the response, Turkish officials canceled import permission.

The ship and its tug, which by then had reached Gibraltar, had to turn back. Environmental groups counted it as an enormous victory.

So Paulo's journey, though, was far from over. As it approached Brazil in October, the navy ordered it to remain off the northeastern coast instead of returning to Rio de Janeiro, its port of departure.

At that point, after two trans-Atlantic crossings, the ship needed to dock for maintenance. But the environmental campaign had apparently worked too well. Spooked local officials in Brazil pressured ports not to take the ship, and it was repeatedly refused. The navy never offered its own bases, for reasons officials have never explained. So, the ship and the tug started doing circles.

Months passed, and, as minor damage started appearing in the hull, MSK Maritime Services & Trading, a partner in the recycling project with Sok Denizcilik, grew desperate. The company needed a harbor to patch up the damage, and the tugboat was guzzling 20 tons of fuel a day. By January, the MSK reported that it had lost $5 million on the venture.

Environmental groups said they were baffled that the navy wouldn't take the ship back and was refusing to say why it wouldn't. Under the Basel Convention, countries are required to re-import toxic waste that they are unable to successfully export. Activists say Brazil is violating the convention by not allowing the ship to dock. Officials deny this, on the grounds that the ship is in Brazilian waters.

At a meeting in December, naval officials said they were concerned the ship would sink close to the coast and create a navigation hazard. So, they ordered it about 200 miles offshore.

In the same meeting, officials said they considered sinking the ship to be one of their few options.

A report in December said the ship was, at that time, seaworthy enough to be towed to a port. But a navy report from two weeks ago said that, although the vessel could last another month before sinking, it was too unstable to bring into coastal waters. So, on Wednesday night, officials announced plans to sink the ship. A navy release cited "deteriorating hull buoyancy conditions and the inevitability of spontaneous/uncontrolled sinking."
. . .

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The carrier, then named Foch and serving with the French Navy, cruising the Adriatic with the oiler Meuse in 1994. Credit...via Agence France-Presse Getty Images

TEXIT

Boy, isnt that a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black......

the **** they are

come and bake it ****ers

Bet north korea would buy it just so kim jong could have the photo ops.

Just sink it. Takes care of the asbestos problem. Water saturated asbestos should make for a great reef.

The oil can then leach out into the sea as is done all over the ocean floor naturally.

Back to gas stoves:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11710955/Democrat-Manchin-cosponsors-bill-save-gas-stoves-GOP-outcry.html

Quote:

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Democrat Joe Manchin says the 'federal government has no business telling American families how to cook their dinner' as he joins Republicans in bill to stop a ban on gas stoves

• Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin joined Republican Sen. Ted Cruz in cosponsoring a bill that would stop a government ban on gas stoves
• 'The federal government has no business telling American families how to cook their dinner,' the West Virginia lawmaker said Thursday
• Republicans were angered by comments made by a Biden-appointed Consumer Product Safety commissioner who said a gas stove ban was on the table

By NIKKI SCHWAB, SENIOR U.S. POLITICAL REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 13:38 EST, 3 February 2023 | UPDATED: 13:43 EST, 3 February 2023

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