https://news.yahoo.com/ok-mexico-save-china-where-155359743.html

Want to help stamp down immigration, drugs, and kcuf China?

This is a big step.

There was a book that predicted this...

We need strong neighbors not dependent neighbors.

This is such a win-win its importance can't be over-estimated. We prevent a failed state from turning up on our southern border and create a true economic ally that shares so much with us in terms of history and culture. To think that we ever sent even a gd dollar to the communist Chinese is just mind-boggling.

If this exodus continues, it will be good for America. Good for Mexico.

But further complicate the southern border, IMO.

If only we didn't over tax, over regulate, over print, etc. Then those companies would relocate here.

Jason C. said:

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This is such a win-win its importance can't be over-estimated. We prevent a failed state from turning up on our southern border and create a true economic ally that shares so much with us in terms of history and culture. To think that we ever sent even a gd dollar to the communist Chinese is just mind-boggling.

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We should be incentivizing this hugely.

good, this has been needing to happen for years. Makes too much sense logistically and we need an economically strong and stable Mexico as a neighbor.

Trading Xi for Narcos. Lesser of two evils perhaps.

Mexican nationals sneeking across the border is minimal as most illegals are Central American and other neferious peoples.

Trumps idea of shutting down Mexico's southern border was a good one.

Mexicans will figure out when their welfare state gets overwhelmed.

VitruvianAg said:

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Mexican nationals sneeking across the border is minimal as most illegals are Central American and other neferious peoples.

Trumps idea of shutting down Mexico's southern border was a good one.

Mexicans will figure out when their welfare state gets overwhelmed.

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He should have built the wall between Mexico and Guatemala. Shorter border, largely impassable anyway, and no eco warriors/"muh propertay" landowners, etc.

So, instead of manufacturing the fentanyl in China, then shipping it to Mexico and smuggling across the border... they're now shipping the labor, manufacturing the fentanyl in Mexico and smuggling it across the border?

Awesome.

TikkaShooter said:

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If this exodus continues, it will be good for America. Good for Mexico.

But further complicate the southern border, IMO.

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This only helps with the border. Mexicans would rather stay in Mexico generally if they have the opportunities there. The Central American issue is a separate but related one however the Mexicans can shut that off anytime they want.

The US should be focusing on 3 things in relation to Mexico.

First, having a real border and controlled immigration. Shut off the illegal spigot and get control of the situation. It's more a matter of will than anything.

Second, divert a fraction of the money we spend in Ukraine and elsewhere on kicking the cartels in the nuts. Either the Mexican government cooperates with us or not in this but they can't stop us. Can't eliminate the cartels but we can reduce their power to being little more than random gangs and that's assuming the Mexican government fights us, we just need the will to do it.

Third is what this article is talking about, encouraging investment and manufacturing in Mexico and Central America. Anything made in Asia that can be made in those regions we should encourage it to happen. That is the win/win because it secures our supply chain and creates a stable trading partner on our border with less incentive for folks to come here illegally.

We have horribly mismanaged our relationships in Mexico and CA by focusing almost all our attention on the other side of the world for decades.

They should have started as soon as Trump was elected. The writing was on the wall way back then.

This is a buoyed about pipe dream, really don't see a way that this could happen given them complicated Mexican business environment and archaic labor laws. The current Mexican government is allowing for independent unions to form and these will employ the Mexican labor laws against big companies, which had previously been insulated by "protection" union contracts with government affiliated unions. Not so much any more. Mexican labor laws are unworkable in modern times and if followed to the T, would require very low wages to be paid.

They mention textiles and apparel a bunch in the article the OP linked. If 15% of the textile production, both piece goods and finished goods, were moved out of China to the western hemisphere the capacity in this hemisphere would have to triple, like in go up 300%. Mexico's textile industry is crap for the most part. The US's has been on life support, in a tiny fashion compared to the 50's to the 80's, and there isn't much willingness to invest in it because the Asians have government subsidies in their industry.

Both parties, but mainly the Republicans, killed the textile industry in the western hemisphere so that Walmart, Target, and other major retailers (now Amazon) could have incredible margins on what is basically a consumable product.

I don't see Mexico jumping way up on any industry that isn't tied in to a US counterpart, such as automotive, food, and some electronics/medical.

https://www.vulcanmaterials.com/

The largest US stone aggregates and construction materials producer is having their new railcar fleet manufactured in Mexico's industrial Queretaro zone. That is a huge industrial capability that Mexico has been able to develop, let the Asians keep making t-shirts.

Mexico has better things to do.

ETA, in my recent visit and reunion last summer to San Miguel de Allende with my mother's side first cousins; even they they commented on how many trinquets, wearables and nicknaks had the "made in China" label, they don't make that **** anymore. Most of them are doctors lawyers and professors, and yes mostly leftist, it was a target rich environment, good fun turning on some lightbulbs!

Mexico's economy is moving upscale and industrializing, like it or not.

The cartels are going to loose in the long run.

Quote:

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We should be incentivizing this hugely.

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Uh, no. There is already enough corporate welfare. Either the market decides or it doesn't.

zephyr88 said:

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So, instead of manufacturing the fentanyl in China, then shipping it to Mexico and smuggling across the border... they're now shipping the labor, manufacturing the fentanyl in Mexico and smuggling it across the border?

Awesome.

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This has been going on for some time now. Go listen to Luis Chaparro and Ed Calderon on any number of podcasts about the topic.

[We removed your vulgar comment. Reposting it earns a day off -- Staff]

If we could help stamp out corruption and the cartels to the south, then having semi open borders with Canada and Mexico and by this i mean to allow for easy movement of workers across borders would be the most ideal thing as ideologically they are the closest countries to us across the globe. Hell American workers could travel there for jobs and their workers could travel here.....it would be a free market dream- allow the labor to go where the labor is needed.

And it wouldn't hurt American workers because they could always travel to Mexico for the blue collar jobs.

Why our government CHOSE to enrich an idealogical and regional adversary by moving all our manufacturing there in the 90's is a head scratcher until you look at who were major contributors to Clinton's first presidential campaign- the Chinese.

I agree with most of your post... Mexico should / could be one of the wealthiest nations on earth. The biggest problem we have with creating a vibrant Mexico isn't the cartels or their government's corruption - both of which could be addressed if we really meant business.... the biggest issue, IMHO, is that our government is just as corrupt - if not more.

We send billions to Ukraine, leave billions in Afghanistan, piss off billions in "green energy" BS but allow the border problems - right here at home - to persist. How can that be anything but intentional?

aggie93 said:

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TikkaShooter said:

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If this exodus continues, it will be good for America. Good for Mexico.

But further complicate the southern border, IMO.

---

This only helps with the border. Mexicans would rather stay in Mexico generally if they have the opportunities there. The Central American issue is a separate but related one however the Mexicans can shut that off anytime they want.

The US should be focusing on 3 things in relation to Mexico.

First, having a real border and controlled immigration. Shut off the illegal spigot and get control of the situation. It's more a matter of will than anything.

Second, divert a fraction of the money we spend in Ukraine and elsewhere on kicking the cartels in the nuts. Either the Mexican government cooperates with us or not in this but they can't stop us. Can't eliminate the cartels but we can reduce their power to being little more than random gangs and that's assuming the Mexican government fights us, we just need the will to do it.

Third is what this article is talking about, encouraging investment and manufacturing in Mexico and Central America. Anything made in Asia that can be made in those regions we should encourage it to happen. That is the win/win because it secures our supply chain and creates a stable trading partner on our border with less incentive for folks to come here illegally.

We have horribly mismanaged our relationships in Mexico and CA by focusing almost all our attention on the other side of the world for decades.

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It also furthers Monroe Doctrine, which is absolutely something that should have never stopped.

VitruvianAg said:

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https://www.vulcanmaterials.com/

The largest US stone aggregates and construction materials producer is having their new railcar fleet manufactured in Mexico's industrial Queretaro zone. That is a huge industrial capability that Mexico has been able to develop, let the Asians keep making t-shirts.

Mexico has better things to do.

ETA, in my recent visit and reunion last summer to San Miguel de Allende with my mother's side first cousins; even they they commented on how many trinquets, wearables and nicknaks had the "made in China" label, they don't make that **** anymore. Most of them are doctors lawyers and professors, and yes mostly leftist, it was a target rich environment, good fun turning on some lightbulbs!

Mexico's economy is moving upscale and industrializing, like it or not.

The cartels are going to loose in the long run.

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Another solution to the Cartels is them all going legitimate. As in, they take the money they have now and fund industrialization. This is what happened to a lot of the mob in the US as times changed.

Give them the option and most will take it especially if it is easier and very profitable.

aTmAg said:

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If only we didn't over tax, over regulate, over print, etc. Then those companies would relocate here.

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I would add: If only Americans would be willing to work for the same low wages those companies pay in their countries, that would be another incentive for them to relocate here.

aTmAg said:

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If only we didn't over tax, over regulate, over print, etc. Then those companies would relocate here.

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Yeah, if only we were more like Mexico, China, and India.

K2-HMFIC said:

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https://news.yahoo.com/ok-mexico-save-china-where-155359743.html

Want to help stamp down immigration, drugs, and kcuf China?

This is a big step.

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The supplies still come from China though, and this move to Mexico started under Trump. His trade war prompted this

aTmAg said:

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If only we didn't over tax, over regulate, over print, etc. Then those companies would relocate here.

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The number one reason is labor cost.

And why is labor cost so high here, Mr liberal poster?

VitruvianAg said:

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https://www.vulcanmaterials.com/

The largest US stone aggregates and construction materials producer is having their new railcar fleet manufactured in Mexico's industrial Queretaro zone. That is a huge industrial capability that Mexico has been able to develop, let the Asians keep making t-shirts.

Mexico has better things to do.

ETA, in my recent visit and reunion last summer to San Miguel de Allende with my mother's side first cousins; even they they commented on how many trinquets, wearables and nicknaks had the "made in China" label, they don't make that **** anymore. Most of them are doctors lawyers and professors, and yes mostly leftist, it was a target rich environment, good fun turning on some lightbulbs!

Mexico's economy is moving upscale and industrializing, like it or not.

The cartels are going to loose in the long run.

---

https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-closes-us-gravel-quarry-181843134.html
That same company was in a years long dispute with the Mexican government, and it was strong arming BS on the part of the Mexicans, and had a major operation shut down by the government. Miraculously that has been solved and they are going to have those railcars made in Mexico.

You are absolutely right in what you state, but to a degree in my opinion. Mexico doesn't have the educated human capital nor the infrastructure to industrialize on anything near the scale that countries in Asia have. The culture, the laws, and the tax system just isn't going to permit it. The public education system in Mexico is horrific.

The single biggest issue American's make when contemplating Mexico is to believe that the controlling interests of Mexico think like American's, they don't. If they did Mexico would have developed incredibly similar to the United States, the lack of development is by design.

Upper end industrial jobs are wonderful, I hope Mexico gets a ton of them. But there are only about 6 to possibly 8 areas where major industrial manufacturing can take place and there is not the workforce to sustain it, because there is not the developed infrastructure for the numbers of people to move to these locations. Access to reliable and affordable energy and water is a whole other issue.

Illegal immigration and the crime issues are centered in the mostly rural areas, that is where Mexico needs development and it isn't going to be heavy industry. Making clothes and other trinkets is not for the first world areas of Mexico, it should be for the large and neglected third world areas, but at this point my opinion is that it is too late. Mexico has neglected the rural areas incredibly, because the revenue from exporting labor from there is greater than any industry that could take it's place.

Legit, tax paying small business is what drives the US economic engine, and that is what is sorely lacking in Mexico. Until Mexico obtains something of this nature they will remain a 3rd world dysfunctional entity.

RGV AG said:

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VitruvianAg said:

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https://www.vulcanmaterials.com/

The largest US stone aggregates and construction materials producer is having their new railcar fleet manufactured in Mexico's industrial Queretaro zone. That is a huge industrial capability that Mexico has been able to develop, let the Asians keep making t-shirts.

Mexico has better things to do.

ETA, in my recent visit and reunion last summer to San Miguel de Allende with my mother's side first cousins; even they they commented on how many trinquets, wearables and nicknaks had the "made in China" label, they don't make that **** anymore. Most of them are doctors lawyers and professors, and yes mostly leftist, it was a target rich environment, good fun turning on some lightbulbs!

Mexico's economy is moving upscale and industrializing, like it or not.

The cartels are going to loose in the long run.

---

https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-closes-us-gravel-quarry-181843134.html
That same company was in a years long dispute with the Mexican government, and it was strong arming BS on the part of the Mexicans, and had a major operation shut down by the government. Miraculously that has been solved and they are going to have those railcars made in Mexico.

You are absolutely right in what you state, but to a degree in my opinion. Mexico doesn't have the educated human capital nor the infrastructure to industrialize on anything near the scale that countries in Asia have. The culture, the laws, and the tax system just isn't going to permit it. The public education system in Mexico is horrific.

The single biggest issue American's make when contemplating Mexico is to believe that the controlling interests of Mexico think like American's, they don't. If they did Mexico would have developed incredibly similar to the United States, the lack of development is by design.

Upper end industrial jobs are wonderful, I hope Mexico gets a ton of them. But there are only about 6 to possibly 8 areas where major industrial manufacturing can take place and there is not the workforce to sustain it, because there is not the developed infrastructure for the numbers of people to move to these locations. Access to reliable and affordable energy and water is a whole other issue.

Illegal immigration and the crime issues are centered in the mostly rural areas, that is where Mexico needs development and it isn't going to be heavy industry. Making clothes and other trinkets is not for the first world areas of Mexico, it should be for the large and neglected third world areas, but at this point my opinion is that it is too late. Mexico has neglected the rural areas incredibly, because the revenue from exporting labor from there is greater than any industry that could take it's place.

Legit, tax paying small business is what drives the US economic engine, and that is what is sorely lacking in Mexico. Until Mexico obtains something of this nature they will remain a 3rd world dysfunctional entity.

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Agree with a lot of what say; in particular small business observation; and yet once here, they seem to thrive at it.

That said I'm not so sure about their education system as compared to our own l, half our kids don't graduate, those that do, do so, without having learned to read beyond 9th grade let alone know algebra, specially in the inner cities.

One of said cousins started a cellular service business in Tijuana across from San Diego back in the eighties. A rival that wanted his business pushed some levers in government, wound up in jail on trumped up charges, they took his business, bunch of money and nine months.

He moved to San Diego, gave Mexico the finger started businesses here. Some people just know how to make money, takes others some time to find the right place to do it.

ETA, in light of what our own Government is doing to TSLA, I would reconsider the opinion of our own Governments corruption.

Good. Have stated many times before but we need to pivot much of our international spend in Europe to the western hemisphere.

We are the largest contributor to NATO accounting for ~12% of the total spend. That number needs to be ~1% with everyone in Europe making up the gap. Take that cut in spending and apply it security in the WH.

Ukraine spend. At least don't give them anymore. $100M is plenty.

Tom Doniphon said:

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And why is labor cost so high here, Mr liberal poster?

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Because the next best opportunity cost of an unemployed homeless person in the US is not subsistence farming. For labor that is truly fungible, the supply of humans in southeast Asia willing to work for next to nothing for long hours because it is still better than working 16 hours a day 7 days a week in a rice patty is far greater than that in this country.

Tom Doniphon said:

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And why is labor cost so high here, Mr liberal poster?

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As always, govt interference in the labor market, firstly. Inflation adds to it (also due to govt).

K2-HMFIC said:

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https://news.yahoo.com/ok-mexico-save-china-where-155359743.html

Want to help stamp down immigration, drugs, and kcuf China?

This is a big step.

---

Good idea, 20 years ago. A little outdated now, but that's the US, always fighting the last war.

This is what we need to be encouraging. I don't think the market can support everything made in the US, but we need to stop investing in the far east and start building manufacturing in central and south america. Spend our time and effort stabilizing this hemisphere and re-enact the Monroe Doctrine.

We need to keep China away from this side of the world and fortify it with industry. Also, muscle our way back into controlling the Panama Canal. Giving that up was one of the stupidest ideas of the 20th century.