VaultingChemist said:

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Quote:

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Mr Goncalves said that, although his daughter and Madison were sleeping in the same bed, their cause of death does not match.

He said: "Their points of damage don't match. I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

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Sad.

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What does he mean by this?

AggiePetro07 said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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Quote:

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Mr Goncalves said that, although his daughter and Madison were sleeping in the same bed, their cause of death does not match.

He said: "Their points of damage don't match. I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

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Sad.

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What does he mean by this?

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I think he is saying he looked at the wounds on her body once the funeral home had her. It was definitely a weird statement.

AggiePetro07 said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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Quote:

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Mr Goncalves said that, although his daughter and Madison were sleeping in the same bed, their cause of death does not match.

He said: "Their points of damage don't match. I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

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Sad.

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What does he mean by this?

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Points of damage refers to the placement of the wounds on the body. Chest and abdomen, neck face. Some may have been post mortem and thus not bleeding as much because the heart had stopped pumping. ME can often make those types of distinctions. Here I would be surprised if they could given the short amount of time of the attack but also the bodies not being discovered or so many hours afterward could make that more obvious.

There have been reports suggestng that Kaylee was stabbed more times and had suffered cuts to her face, numerous ones. If the target was Maddie, finding her in bed with Kaylee, unexpectedly could have triggered some type of jealous rage in him. He also has been connected with some form of homophobia BUT those reports are quite vague and have not been followed up on since then. So just speculation but kind of fits with what Kaylee's father has indicated.

Again until the autopsy results are released we really don't know. This guy was not trained in knife combat technique so he would be flailing around exhibiting different types of thrusts and slashes, even in the way he held the knife. palm on bottom, thumb on top (Filipino grip) or palm on top, thumb on the bottom (reverse edge out grip).

Gotcha. Seemed like an odd statement. That makes sense.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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AggiePetro07 said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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Quote:

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Mr Goncalves said that, although his daughter and Madison were sleeping in the same bed, their cause of death does not match.

He said: "Their points of damage don't match. I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

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Sad.

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What does he mean by this?

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I think he is saying he looked at the wounds on her body once the funeral home had her. It was definitely a weird statement.

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I took it as she had a different level of violence inflicted on her. Like she was the target and the Madison was just in the way.

Quote:

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I took it as she had a different level of violence inflicted on her. Like she was the target and the Madison was just in the way.

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There is a lot of confusion now because the autopsy results are not being released. If there actually is a probable cause hearing in June (which I am beginning to doubt) we will hear much, much more but still not all. Not by a long shot.

Here's why. Probable cause hearings only have to give a 51% chance they had reason to arrest. That has already been done in the affidavit. But the prosecution has the option to reveal subsequently discovered evidence from the multiple, multiple search warrants that were served nearly concurrent with his arrest.

Parents home, his apartment, his office at WSU, his body for his DNA, his car and I might be missing a few for his cell phone traffic, etc.

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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AggiePetro07 said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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Quote:

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Mr Goncalves said that, although his daughter and Madison were sleeping in the same bed, their cause of death does not match.

He said: "Their points of damage don't match. I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

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Sad.

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What does he mean by this?

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I think he is saying he looked at the wounds on her body once the funeral home had her. It was definitely a weird statement.

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I took it as she had a different level of violence inflicted on her. Like she was the target and the Madison was just in the way.

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That's complete speculation and I see it the other way. Could be either. But if he was there not to kill Madison but to talk to her (don't assume a logical reason, if he was obsessed) and Kaylee was there he could have been angrier with her in the moment for ruining it. As opposed to her being the target.



And as for what that dad meant - I took it as meaning that he did not care if he was supposed to say that or not (because that info is not public, and considering the gag order) but that he didn't care and he was going to say it. Because he has been through so much and earned it in effect.

Premium said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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AggiePetro07 said:

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VaultingChemist said:

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Quote:

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Mr Goncalves said that, although his daughter and Madison were sleeping in the same bed, their cause of death does not match.

He said: "Their points of damage don't match. I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for that funeral. I sent my daughter to college. She came back in a box, and I can speak on that."

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Sad.

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What does he mean by this?

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I think he is saying he looked at the wounds on her body once the funeral home had her. It was definitely a weird statement.

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I took it as she had a different level of violence inflicted on her. Like she was the target and the Madison was just in the way.

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That's complete speculation and I see it the other way. Could be either. But if he was there not to kill Madison but to talk to her (don't assume a logical reason, if he was obsessed) and Kaylee was there he could have been angrier with her in the moment for ruining it. As opposed to her being the target.



And as for what that dad meant - I took it as meaning that he did not care if he was supposed to say that or not (because that info is not public, and considering the gag order) but that he didn't care and he was going to say it. Because he has been through so much and earned it in effect.

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I think we can all assume he wasn't there to talk things through with coveralls, mask, knife and driving past house several times until lights were out.

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imho you are using logic and reason of a sane person - I don't assume he was.

I think based on his background, he was there for murder. He might have gotten angered that Kaylee was in Madison's room, but I don't think he was there just to "talk" to either one of them.

Diet Cokehead said:

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I think based on his background, he was there for murder. He might have gotten angered that Kaylee was in Madison's room, but I don't think he was there just to "talk" to either one of them.

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Planning a murder would be difficult, real sloppy as your normal self probably can't fully wrap around the thought of what u r actually planning hence your iteration process has huge gaps you just can't fill. Mix in a little emotion and unstable disorder and you got yourself a real problem.

I think his mistakes are real, no mystery other than why these people? Reminds me of Ted Bundy rage killing in Tallahassee, randomly picked some victims on a college campus. I am thinking they are about the same age.




He needs to be sent to God.

DannyDuberstein said:

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I would imagine he dumped the actual shoes, but like many Vans wearers, it may not have been his only pair

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I have always suspected that the circuitous drive he took after the murders and the extended time he took to make it means he stopped at some point to do just that.

I'm sure those cell phone pings have time stamps. Surely LE has an idea of where he may have lingered, and are probably searching that area for both the discarded clothing and knife. Wouldn't be surprised if there is a burn pile out there where he torched the clothes, which has been mostly covered by snow since the murders.

Those are all things that we won't have access to until the trial. I suppose even if they find the weapon we may not know it until June.

Diet Cokehead said:

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I think based on his background, he was there for murder. He might have gotten angered that Kaylee was in Madison's room, but I don't think he was there just to "talk" to either one of them.

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My response is more to the board and not just you.

Any chance this was supposed to be a kidnapping that turned into four murders? Seems like low odds but as dumb as the guy seems to be maybe that was his plan?

My gut reaction is no.... but I don't know that it's impossible.

Madman said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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I think based on his background, he was there for murder. He might have gotten angered that Kaylee was in Madison's room, but I don't think he was there just to "talk" to either one of them.

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My response is more to the board and not just you.

Any chance this was supposed to be a kidnapping that turned into four murders? Seems like low odds but as dumb as the guy seems to be maybe that was his plan?

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Everything i've seen from various profilers (some of which are former FBI agents) seem to suggest that he was there out of anger wanting to kill or or more of them (most likely Madison and/or Kaylee).

They were popular. He was a loser. He was rejected by one of them or couldn't get their attention. Etc.

When People Magazine claims they have proof he was DMing one of the girls on Insta

he clearly was stalking them with intent to murder

he was around that house all night long, he knew there would be other people around a few feet away if he was planning to "kidnap" her.

as for wanting to talk?!?! yeah, lots of people wait until 0415 in the morning, break into someone's house, ask other people how to commit murder, buy a KABAR and sheath...

IF he was intending to kidnap one of the girls, he'd have killed her eventually, and after terrorizing and brutalizing her for who knows how long.

Ka-Bar knives include the sheath.

The options I found were
-leather hilt & leather sheath
-polymer hilt & synthetic fiber sheath

This guy has to be a real idiot. Following all victims on IG then sending messages like a pyscho prior to murdering them? MY god

I tend to think he was obsessed and behaving in what most of us would call irrationally. This kind of stuff happens all the time... without the murder. How many times have high profile men who have wives and children been busted for messing around with another woman or someone, with SO much as risk and very little to protect them? When people are obsessed with something, they do dumb stuff.

People assumed when they found out he was a CJ PhD student that he was brilliant... and man, if you don't already know this, good PhD students are good in books, and soooooo often are not at all good in "real life."

girlfriend_experience said:

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This guy has to be a real idiot. Following all victims on IG then sending messages like a pyscho prior to murdering them? MY god

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Was he following all of them or just one or two of them? Saw some reports on last night that he had sent messages (5 to 10+) through Instagram to one of the girls, but she never replied at all. Searched for quite awhile, but no one that mentioned these messages named which girl they were sent too.

I find it hard to believe both blondes were his target, and I think it will be very interesting to learn which one was his target. I'm thinking it was Kaylee, but many believe it was Madison.

Quote:

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People assumed when they found out he was a CJ PhD student that he was brilliant... and man, if you don't already know this, good PhD students are good in books, and soooooo often are not at all good in "real life."

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Not necessarily brillian but more knowledgeable about how criminals get themselves caught and the tools of law enforcement that catches them.

Consider this fact. Moscow police put out a quiet BOLO for a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra. BK's vehicle is a 2015 not fitting the profile for the BOLO but the WSU cops send the info with his name over anyway. They then run his name and the August 21st tracffic stop pops up. They then have his phone bumber on bodycam video.

Had he not had that traffic stop? Or had he ditched that phone and gotten a new one with a new number after that stop, gone back to PA over Christmas and sold the car?

TexasRebel said:

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Unless the dude writes a death row confessional (and even then) we may never know what his intentions were.

You're searching for logic and reason where there is none.

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I think he ultimately confesses, as he likes the attention and that's the last card he has to play before going to prison.

But even not, it will be my assumption that which of the two blondes received the most brutal attack was his target. The others, including poor Ethan and Xana (I think if Xana is in bed and stays put - they survive) were collateral damage sadly.

Yeah, this killing was amateur hour. I would not read much into injury differences. All sorts of factors come into play between who got attacked first, who was second, who was awake or not, who may have had more of a chance to move/fight/etc

I think it's actually more likely than not that the person with the worst wounds was NOT the intended target. He was probably angry with that one because they ruined his "perfect planning".

Diet Cokehead said:

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I think it's actually more likely than not that the person with the worst wounds was NOT the intended target. He was probably angry with that one because they ruined his "perfect planning".

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I tend to agree. And if that was Kaylee with the worst injuries as suggested by her father, that would point to Maddie as the target.

She had that large letter "M" in her bedroom window, easily visible from outside even at night if the room lights were on.

Didn't he leave the sheath by Maddie?

BadMoonRisin said:

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Man, I watched the 20/20 on all this yesterday and I'm actually blown away at how competent the Moscow PD was in this case. They did an incredible job despite the random true crime idiots online who second guessed them at every step.

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They were competent, very competent. But they also had a million dollars added to their budget, the State Police, the Washington State Police and over 60 (at one time or another) FBI Special Agents with a few from BAU on the case. It was the FBI people who used the video of the car to get down to the make, model, color, even if the got the year incorrect.

Local cops could not have done that on their own and certainly not in time to catch him with the same vehicle and phone number.

And he kept crossing state lines. Makes federal law enforcement involvement more likely.

BadMoonRisin said:

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I agree it was a team effort, but Moscow PD got the most poop on them from the general public. They were treated like most small-town keystone cops when they actually did really well with what they released to the public and what they kept close to the vest.

They had their poop in a group, some might say.

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Not dismissing them at all. I just think they could not have been all on BK as quickly as they were without that help.

Also makes me wonder if the Feds were watching BK on the web or dark web before, though. His activity on reddit could easily have popped on their radar. And let's face it, they have had a lot of killers on their radars before they killed.

The Idaho judge over the Bryan Kohberger case has put a stricter gag order in place that now includes "attorneys for any interested party in this case" -- including attorneys representing victims families.
Full order: pic.twitter.com/1lri8S6Ryx

— Brian Entin (@BrianEntin) January 20, 2023

Fox now saying that BK was following 3 of them on Instagram. They weren't following him back.

Amateur hour.

PhatMack19 said:

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The Idaho judge over the Bryan Kohberger case has put a stricter gag order in place that now includes "attorneys for any interested party in this case" -- including attorneys representing victims families.
Full order: pic.twitter.com/1lri8S6Ryx

— Brian Entin (@BrianEntin) January 20, 2023

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Okay. That's too far. Prior restraint. not allowed by the First Amendment.