Zombie Jon Snow said:

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gotsand said:

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From the virtual tour, it doesn't look like there's a lock on that bedroom door. Click in the room, then click the dot on the floor to get a movable view of the door knob.

Maybe the movable photos are just lacking certain detail? I noticed a few other small differences between the movable and still photos.

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I believe it is a mockup someone made, not an actual 3D tour.

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I think there were online photos of the house from a realty or rental website from before the murders. They were quickly taken down, but undoubtedly someone (probably many people) saved screenshots. Mockup could have been modeled from that, hence it looks very realistic.

Google Street View is now blurred, along with the house next door.

Not an expert on this stuff but it seems "Incel" is a term applied to people, not that they apply to themselves. The theory is that he had no luck with women, constantly rebuffed, and that fueled his hatred.

I don't think there is a group that voluntarily associates with one another with that as the binding characteristic. I could be wrong.

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I think there were online photos of the house from a realty or rental website from before the murders. They were quickly taken down, but undoubtedly someone (probably many people) saved screenshots. Mockup could have been modeled from that, hence it looks very realistic.

Google Street View is now blurred, along with the house next door.

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This.

A few days after the murders, a youtuber, Johnny Law, had the pictures and did his own mock-up. He also speculated that not both of the survivors were down on the first floor because he knew the sixth roommate had moved out earlier and that northwest bedroom on the first floor was tiny. He speculated that one roommate had moved upstairs, leaving that downstairs room vacant.

In one of the noise complaint body cam footage this was enhanced because the officer looked in the window of that downstairs bedroom and it had no furniture and seemed to be used as storage instead

Bluecat_Aggie94 said:

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Not an expert on this stuff but it seems "Incel" is a term applied to people, not that they apply to themselves. The theory is that he had no luck with women, constantly rebuffed, and that fueled his hatred.

I don't think there is a group that voluntarily associates with one another with that as the binding characteristic. I could be wrong.

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I don't think this is correct, the term Incel was coined by members of the online chat groups, it stands for Involuntarily Celibate. They are a big online group of misogynistic weirdo losers that are obsessed with women way out of their league and the constant rejection they get from them. Online they call the attractive popular women 'Betty's" and the dominating popular manly men that the Bettys admire they call "Chads". They post to online Incel forums often posting sick revenge fantasies on the women that they think unfairly reject them for sex that don't recognize how superior the Incels really are to the Chads.

https://medium.com/the-no%C3%B6sphere/i-joined-a-popular-incel-forum-heres-what-they-really-think-of-women-862eda9f2edf

Thanks. Other than what I've learned relative to this case, somewhat new to me.

Couldn't someone kind of be an "incel" without actually being a member of this group? If you are constantly rejected and harbor resentment and anger, you could act out on it, without joining a group like that.

Bluecat_Aggie94 said:

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Thanks. Other than what I've learned relative to this case, somewhat new to me.

Couldn't someone kind of be an "incel" without actually being a member of this group? If you are constantly rejected and harbor resentment and anger, you could act out on it, without joining a group like that.

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Yes it could be he is just a creepy weird dude that was rejected by these girls and that was his motivation. I think some in the media are obviously jumping out ahead with their theories because of the Eliot Rodgers case but with Rodgers he left a lengthy list of videos and posts online that left no doubt why he killed all of those people. So far I don't see any of that so I agree with you that he is probably just some isolated sociopathic creep.

I think they will be able to confirm if he was stalking one (or more) of them based on reviewing his social media accounts.

Diet Cokehead said:

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I think they will be able to confirm if he was stalking one (or more) of them based on reviewing his social media accounts.

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When do we find out there's an OF?

TexasRebel said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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I think they will be able to confirm if he was stalking one (or more) of them based on reviewing his social media accounts.

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When do we find out there's an OF?

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There was an early rumor that one of the girls had an onlyfans. If true, that might be the connection. Could be bull**** though.

If there was an Onlyfans account from one of the victims it would surely be out there publicly by now. Someone that was a member would have copied and pasted photos from the account to the internet if true.

Even if not OF, we know they had Facebook, Instagram and TicTok accounts and you can bet your ass they have gotten warrants to see his browsing history on those sites to see whose profiles he was looking at and how much.

It sickens me thinking that Xana and Ethan could still be alive if they didn't order Door Dash. Or if they had ordered it sooner. Assuming that they weren't the target and would have slept through it.

YZ250 said:

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It sickens me thinking that Xana and Ethan could still be alive if they didn't order Door Dash. Or if they had ordered it sooner. Assuming that they weren't the target and would have slept through it.

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I don't know. 4am Jack-in-the-Box when you are trashed is to die for.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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YZ250 said:

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It sickens me thinking that Xana and Ethan could still be alive if they didn't order Door Dash. Or if they had ordered it sooner. Assuming that they weren't the target and would have slept through it.

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I don't know. 4am Jack-in-the-Box when you are trashed is to die for.

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too soon man...too soon

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I know. This whole situation is totally F'd, but I couldn't resist that one.

i chuckled but i felt terrible for it so i'm blaming you.

Diet Cokehead said:

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Even if not OF, we know they had Facebook, Instagram and TicTok accounts and you can bet your ass they have gotten warrants to see his browsing history on those sites to see whose profiles he was looking at and how much.

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Why I was asking about geotagging yesterday. He didn't leave his Pullman apartment until 2:44 AM. Except for one, his other forays into that neighborhood were in the night and mostly very late into the night.

So something was prompting those surveillance visits and the times for them. What was it?

Question not directed at you, Diet, just a general question.

aggiehawg said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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Even if not OF, we know they had Facebook, Instagram and TicTok accounts and you can bet your ass they have gotten warrants to see his browsing history on those sites to see whose profiles he was looking at and how much.

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Why I was asking about geotagging yesterday. He didn't leave his Pullman apartment until 2:44 AM. Except for one, his other forays into that neighborhood were in the night and mostly very late into the night.

So something was prompting those surveillance visits and the times for them. What was it?

Question not directed at you, Diet, just a general question.

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I'll go you one better and ask what prompted his very first visit (according to affidavit) on August 21, 2022 from 10:30pm-11:30 pm??

That was the night before classes started for both schools. A big party night for a lot of kids.

But what exactly was the impetus? We have been told he was not a customer of the vegan restaurant and apparently that visit was without having come during "normal hours" for shopping or any other purpose like eating at that restaurant. He apparently came to stalk. But was he already focused on them? Or did he find one or more of them that night. That we do not know.

He could have simply decided to scope out the neighboring college town for victims. It might be that simple.

Or what if he was already focused on them due to social media or some online contact (chatting). As it was the night before classes he would expect them to all be back for classes. Or maybe they posted something to that effect.

And what really strikes me as odd is - he went to HS, tech school, juco, and undergrad all within an hour of where he grew up in PA. Then he suddenly moves to eastern Washington and within days (or weeks?) he is already scoping out the college town 8 miles way. He cannot have run out of people to meet or things to do in Pullman it is even a bigger college town than Moscow.

Was his move to WSU intentional in that he was already following one or more of them and chose a nearby university from which he could stalk her/them. I do not discount the possibility that he was already obsessed with one or more of them and planning some master crime that he could observe from nearby as the aftermath unfolded.

But the problem with that theory is if it was some well planned thing he just made so many mistakes, almost brazenly. I mean at least Leopold and Loeb rented a car in a fake name and they did not have cameras or cell phone tracking to worry about.


Anyway not suggesting I know anything but just that first visit so soon after even arriving and on the night before classes start just hits me wrong, like it was not random.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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Even if not OF, we know they had Facebook, Instagram and TicTok accounts and you can bet your ass they have gotten warrants to see his browsing history on those sites to see whose profiles he was looking at and how much.

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Why I was asking about geotagging yesterday. He didn't leave his Pullman apartment until 2:44 AM. Except for one, his other forays into that neighborhood were in the night and mostly very late into the night.

So something was prompting those surveillance visits and the times for them. What was it?

Question not directed at you, Diet, just a general question.

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I'll go you one better and ask what prompted his very first visit (according to affidavit) on August 21, 2022 from 10:30pm-11:30 pm??

That was the night before classes started for both schools. A big party night for a lot of kids.

But what exactly was the impetus? We have been told he was not a customer of the vegan restaurant and apparently that visit was without having come during "normal hours" for shopping or any other purpose like eating at that restaurant. He apparently came to stalk. But was he already focused on them? Or did he find one or more of them that night. That we do not know.

He could have simply decided to scope out the neighboring college town for victims. It might be that simple.

Or what if he was already focused on them due to social media or some online contact (chatting). As it was the night before classes he would expect them to all be back for classes. Or maybe they posted something to that effect.

And what really strikes me as odd is - he went to HS, tech school, juco, and undergrad all within an hour of where he grew up in PA. Then he suddenly moves to eastern Washington and within days (or weeks?) he is already scoping out the college town 8 miles way. He cannot have run out of people to meet or things to do in Pullman it is even a bigger college town than Moscow.

Was his move to WSU intentional in that he was already following one or more of them and chose a nearby university from which he could stalk her/them. I do not discount the possibility that he was already obsessed with one or more of them and planning some master crime that he could observe from nearby as the aftermath unfolded.

But the problem with that theory is if it was some well planned thing he just made so many mistakes, almost brazenly. I mean at least Leopold and Loeb rented a car in a fake name and they did not have cameras or cell phone tracking to worry about.


Anyway not suggesting I know anything but just that first visit so soon after even arriving and on the night before classes start just hits me wrong, like it was not random.

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With social media knowing no boundaries or borders, he could have picked WSU having seen those girls on Instagram years before while living in PA.

Wouldn't surprise me.

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Anyway not suggesting I know anything but just that first visit so soon after even arriving and on the night before classes start just hits me wrong, like it was not random.

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Fully understand that and I am just spit ballin' too. But I'm also wondering about how long he might have been following one or more of the girls on social media before he went to Washington State.

Is an intriguing thought.

Really no way to know. It's possible one of them was a friend of a friend from when he was in PA and he stumbled upon their social media and then decided to go to Pullman for his "rural criminology PHD".

Alternatively, he might have moved to the area and randomly been at a bar one night where they were and been attractive to one of them and overheard a name and went home to "e-stalk" them. These days, I'm sure you could google "Maddie University of Idaho" and find them fairly easily just by having a few limited details like their name, school, etc., especially at a smaller school like that.

Will be fascinating to see how he chose them.

There is video showing a car like his doing a drive by the morning after. He slows down in the street to get a visual of the house. It was shown on national news show.

I think he confesses but changes his story countless times. He loves the attention.

I don't thing these girls would have had anything to do with him,, too old and an odd ball.

agz win said:

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There is video showing a car like his doing a drive by the morning after. He slows down in the street to get a visual of the house. It was shown on national news show.

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And he had his phone with them and it was still on. Police traced it. Also, that was taken from the rear of the house on the SE side. That is Queen Road, likely where he parked just hours earlier.

Like most serial killers, he went back to be part of the on-lookers at the murder scene. But when there was nothing happening, I'm sure he was confused, very confused.

Because he knew there were other roommates in the house, I assume.

PA24 said:

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I think he confesses but changes his story countless times. He loves the attention.

I don't thing these girls would have had anything to do with him,, too old and an odd ball.

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And he looks even older than he is. If I didn't know he was 28 I would guess he was mid to late 30s. Granted the last few months, all of the late nights and an obsession have taken its toll but he looks bad.

aggiehawg said:

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PA24 said:

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I think he confesses but changes his story countless times. He loves the attention.

I don't thing these girls would have had anything to do with him,, too old and an odd ball.

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And he looks even older than he is. If I didn't know he was 28 I would guess he was mid to late 30s. Granted the last few months, all of the late nights and an obsession have taken its toll but he looks bad.

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And given his obsession around crime/death/murder you know he has to be one weird dude. Even if he's innocent, you know he has to be super freaking awkward.

But what exactly was the impetus? We have been told he was not a customer of the vegan restaurant and apparently that visit was without having come during "normal hours" for shopping or any other purpose like eating at that restaurant.

[/quote said:

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Where have we been told he wasn't a customer at the restaurant?

Where were we told he wasn't in Moscow previously?

I can pretty much guarantee a college town has more than one cell tower, he very much could have been in town without pinging the tower closest to their home.

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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But what exactly was the impetus? We have been told he was not a customer of the vegan restaurant and apparently that visit was without having come during "normal hours" for shopping or any other purpose like eating at that restaurant.

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Where have we been told he wasn't a customer at the restaurant?

Where were we told he wasn't in Moscow previously?

I can pretty much guarantee a college town has more than one cell tower, he very much could have been in town without pinging the tower closest to their home.

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The social media account of the restaurant said nobody at the restaurant recognized him.

The affidavit cited 12 previous occasions he was in the area of the house. You are correct I suppose he could have been elsewhere in Moscow and they did not mention that. But I would be surprised if he had been because nobody including other customers from any shops, bars, or restaurants have stepped up to say he came there.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270876677.html

Gives some input from BK classmates.

Summary: nobody knew anything was off. He was gregarious an the only indicator was that he did not speak up when discussing the Idaho Murders. An exceptional student. One professor commented that he seemed to be more vocal against women when they were speaking in the class. Other than that anecdotal comment, no signs of psychopathy

Private PoopyPants said:

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I've tried to stay away from this case. At this point the victims have largely been forgotten and it's become a wild spectacle for public entertainment. Not saying that's the case here, but internet in general.

These ridiculous online "investigators" who played a few crappy fake true crime board games think they know everything and ended up causing real damage to real people. Eff them and this informative murderporn craze. I'll check back in when the trial process starts because that's all I'm really interested in with these cases.

Maybe I'm just in a mood today.

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What was the real damage and to what people?

10thYrSr said:

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https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270876677.html

Gives some input from BK classmates.

Summary: nobody knew anything was off. He was gregarious an the only indicator was that he did not speak up when discussing the Idaho Murders. An exceptional student. One professor commented that he seemed to be more vocal against women when they were speaking in the class. Other than that anecdotal comment, no signs of psychopathy

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Yeah I saw a similar thing from a neighbor (upstairs I think) in his apartment saying his was very friendly and talkative.

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Other than that anecdotal comment, no signs of psychopathy

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Of course not. He's a sociopath.