Definitely feels like some sort of stalking situation based on his being there 12 other times.

torrid said:

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My two cents.

He came across either Kaylee or Madison in passing and became obsessed with them. Or maybe both as they always seemed to be together. Scenario one is he approached them and was rejected, so he killed them out of rage. Scenario two, I think more likely, is murdering them was part of his twisted sexual fantasies.

Xana and Ethan were collateral damage. Maybe they woke up. The other two roommates could just as easily have been killed.

---

Xana probably never went to sleep because she had just ordered food. Ethan was probably passed out. She is eating her food and hears commotion upstairs. She opens door to hear better, says "There's someone here" to passed out Ethan, DM hears it. DM goes back in her room, killer comes down stairs and Xana is still out of her room. Kills her then goes in and kills sleeping Ethan.

Xana was killed in her room, found on floor. She appears to have either tried to fight back or was trying to get away (believe coroner said she had defensive wounds).

ea1060 said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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You know (or presume) it was Xana because we know she was awake.

There was no indication in the affidavit that Dylan knew who was crying.

She believed the person that spoke earlier was Kaylee. And she believed Kaylee was playing with the dog shortly before that.

Kaylee had recently broken up with her boyfriend and between 2-2:30am she and Madison made 10 calls to the ex bf that they had seen that night (his phone was off). Dylan could have been aware of that as well.

There is no reason to assume she thought it was Xana.

---

Actually, Im just going by the affidavit. She told police she heard what she believed to be crying coming from Xana's room.

The roommate said she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything. She opened her door for a second time when she heard what she believed to be crying coming from Xana's room. She then heard a man's voice say, "It's okay, I'm going to help you."

---

Fair enough. I did not recall it was that specific. Should have checked.

But although it came from that direction it still could have been another girl.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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ea1060 said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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You know (or presume) it was Xana because we know she was awake.

There was no indication in the affidavit that Dylan knew who was crying.

She believed the person that spoke earlier was Kaylee. And she believed Kaylee was playing with the dog shortly before that.

Kaylee had recently broken up with her boyfriend and between 2-2:30am she and Madison made 10 calls to the ex bf that they had seen that night (his phone was off). Dylan could have been aware of that as well.

There is no reason to assume she thought it was Xana.

---

Actually, Im just going by the affidavit. She told police she heard what she believed to be crying coming from Xana's room.

The roommate said she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything. She opened her door for a second time when she heard what she believed to be crying coming from Xana's room. She then heard a man's voice say, "It's okay, I'm going to help you."

---

Fair enough. I did not recall it was that specific. Should have checked.

But although it came from that direction it still could have been another girl.

---

Sure, it could have been another girl. But DM believed it was coming from Xana's room. She's the only eyewitness we have.

It was never stated who had defensive wounds. Just that some of the victims did

Sorry, I may have missed it. Where did we find out Xana's phone was in kitchen?

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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HtownAg92 said:

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torrid said:

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My two cents.

He came across either Kaylee or Madison in passing and became obsessed with them. Or maybe both as they always seemed to be together. Scenario one is he approached them and was rejected, so he killed them out of rage. Scenario two, I think more likely, is murdering them was part of his twisted sexual fantasies.

Xana and Ethan were collateral damage. Maybe they woke up. The other two roommates could just as easily have been killed.

---

Xana probably never went to sleep because she had just ordered food. Ethan was probably passed out. She is eating her food and hears commotion upstairs. She opens door to hear better, says "There's someone here" to passed out Ethan, DM hears it. DM goes back in her room, killer comes down stairs and Xana is still out of her room. Kills her then goes in and kills sleeping Ethan.

---

This seems highly likely.

Add in the fact that what appears to be Xana's phone is on a table in the kitchen (when we know she was on Tik tok at 4:12am) and the Jack in the Box bag on the counter with her name on it and I believe......with speculations of course....

• food delivered at 4:00am
• Xana got the food before BK entered and was in her room eating it and on her phone watching Tiktoks
• BK enters neighborhood at 4:04 am, parks at say 4:05am sees all lights out and enters sliding door shortly after between 4:06 and 4:10am
• Xana may have had earbuds in because Ethan was asleep, thus she heard nothing upstairs and between 4:06am and 4:12am was when BK went upstairs and killed Kaylee and Madison
• she took the bag back to the kitchen about 4:12am (after last TikTok access)
• this was when she said "there's someone here" because she either heard something, saw the sliding door open, saw the car parked behind there, etc.
• she may have set her phone down to close the sliding door(?)
• she went back to her room and left her phone, maybe because she saw or heard him and hurried back
• BK came downstairs having heard or seen her and followed her down that hallway
• he then severely injured her leaving her crying/whimpering just inside the bedroom door.
• and then he proceeded to kill Ethan who was sleeping but likely awakened by Xana's words or their struggle and this accounts for both the whimper and thud heard on exterior neighbor cam
• this is the point that Dylan opens her door (after she heard the "there's someone here" spoken) hears the crying but sees nothing
• he then told Xana "it's ok, I'm going to help you." which Dylan heard as well as he returns to Xana and kills her
• then he walks out and Dylan again opens her door a crack and sees him
• he likely did not see her but is beating a hasty retreat now anyway and drives away by 4:20am

I actually believe Xana put her phone down rather calmly, it does not look thrown but placed. And I believe she may have been spooked by the open door, closed it and then just left her phone. I think BK heard this from upstairs and waited until she returned to her room then came down and either met her in the hallway or opened the bedroom door and she fought back because she was awake as opposed to the other victims.

---

Terrifying and chaotic for sure.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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HtownAg92 said:

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torrid said:

---

My two cents.

He came across either Kaylee or Madison in passing and became obsessed with them. Or maybe both as they always seemed to be together. Scenario one is he approached them and was rejected, so he killed them out of rage. Scenario two, I think more likely, is murdering them was part of his twisted sexual fantasies.

Xana and Ethan were collateral damage. Maybe they woke up. The other two roommates could just as easily have been killed.

---

Xana probably never went to sleep because she had just ordered food. Ethan was probably passed out. She is eating her food and hears commotion upstairs. She opens door to hear better, says "There's someone here" to passed out Ethan, DM hears it. DM goes back in her room, killer comes down stairs and Xana is still out of her room. Kills her then goes in and kills sleeping Ethan.

---

This seems highly likely.

Add in the fact that what appears to be Xana's phone is on a table in the kitchen (when we know she was on Tik tok at 4:12am) and the Jack in the Box bag on the counter with her name on it and I believe......with speculations of course....

• food delivered at 4:00am
• Xana got the food before BK entered and was in her room eating it and on her phone watching Tiktoks
• BK enters neighborhood at 4:04 am, parks at say 4:05am sees all lights out and enters sliding door shortly after between 4:06 and 4:10am
• Xana may have had earbuds in because Ethan was asleep, thus she heard nothing upstairs and between 4:06am and 4:12am was when BK went upstairs and killed Kaylee and Madison
• she took the bag back to the kitchen about 4:12am (after last TikTok access)
• this was when she said "there's someone here" because she either heard something, saw the sliding door open, saw the car parked behind there, etc.
• she may have set her phone down to close the sliding door(?)
• she went back to her room and left her phone, maybe because she saw or heard him and hurried back
• BK came downstairs having heard or seen her and followed her down that hallway
• he then severely injured her leaving her crying/whimpering just inside the bedroom door.
• and then he proceeded to kill Ethan who was sleeping but likely awakened by Xana's words or their struggle and this accounts for both the whimper and thud heard on exterior neighbor cam
• this is the point that Dylan opens her door (after she heard the "there's someone here" spoken) hears the crying but sees nothing
• he then told Xana "it's ok, I'm going to help you." which Dylan heard as well as he returns to Xana and kills her
• then he walks out and Dylan again opens her door a crack and sees him
• he likely did not see her but is beating a hasty retreat now anyway and drives away by 4:20am

I actually believe Xana put her phone down rather calmly, it does not look thrown but placed. And I believe she may have been spooked by the open door, closed it and then just left her phone. I think BK heard this from upstairs and waited until she returned to her room then came down and either met her in the hallway or opened the bedroom door and she fought back because she was awake as opposed to the other victims.

---

This is it. I don't think he chased her to the room because Dylan would have heard that, so he surprised her at the bedroom door. Maybe she even opened it to peak down the hall and there he was. I don't think Ethan even woke up. Critically wounds Xana before attacking Ethan as the greater threat. Once Ethan is presumed dead he went back to finish Xana in the floor before fleeing the residence. I don't think he saw Dylan, because why not kill again if it's an eye witness?

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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This seems highly likely.

Add in the fact that what appears to be Xana's phone is on a table in the kitchen (when we know she was on Tik tok at 4:12am) and the Jack in the Box bag on the counter with her name on it and I believe......with speculations of course....

• food delivered at 4:00am
• Xana got the food before BK entered and was in her room eating it and on her phone watching Tiktoks
• BK enters neighborhood at 4:04 am, parks at say 4:05am sees all lights out and enters sliding door shortly after between 4:06 and 4:10am
• Xana may have had earbuds in because Ethan was asleep, thus she heard nothing upstairs and between 4:06am and 4:12am was when BK went upstairs and killed Kaylee and Madison
• she took the bag back to the kitchen about 4:12am (after last TikTok access)
• this was when she said "there's someone here" because she either heard something, saw the sliding door open, saw the car parked behind there, etc.
• she may have set her phone down to close the sliding door(?)
• she went back to her room and left her phone, maybe because she saw or heard him and hurried back
• BK came downstairs having heard or seen her and followed her down that hallway
• he then severely injured her leaving her crying/whimpering just inside the bedroom door.
• and then he proceeded to kill Ethan who was sleeping but likely awakened by Xana's words or their struggle and this accounts for both the whimper and thud heard on exterior neighbor cam
• this is the point that Dylan opens her door (after she heard the "there's someone here" spoken) hears the crying but sees nothing
• he then told Xana "it's ok, I'm going to help you." which Dylan heard as well as he returns to Xana and kills her
• then he walks out and Dylan again opens her door a crack and sees him
• he likely did not see her but is beating a hasty retreat now anyway and drives away by 4:20am

I actually believe Xana put her phone down rather calmly, it does not look thrown but placed. And I believe she may have been spooked by the open door, closed it and then just left her phone. I think BK heard this from upstairs and waited until she returned to her room then came down and either met her in the hallway or opened the bedroom door and she fought back because she was awake as opposed to the other victims.

---

I think you've pretty much nailed it. My only difference between your timeline of events is the comment made by the killer "it's ok, I'm going to help you." I believe he made the comment before he attacked Xana the first time, not the second, but it doesn't have a major impact either way.

ea1060 said:

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bmks270 said:

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10thYrSr said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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10thYrSr said:

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C@LAg said:

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it is annoying because there is no information or evidence provided anywhere by anyone in authority to indicate such

it is entirely speculation and conjecture by people using made up information to reach that conclusion.

sure at some point in the future there may be a connection.

but there is none whatsoever at this time with the information that is available.

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Are you kidding me? No evidence that something is crazy? You hear your roommates getting murdered, and see the murderer walk out, but you wait 8 hours until your boyfriend calls police!?

That is 100 percent from the police report and not speculation or conjecture.

That is crazy and the very reason we are discussing it. Dont act like we are impugning an innocent woman in some sort of witch trial. We are appropriately speculating.

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^that's a disgusting characterization.

NOWHERE in that affidavit does it say she heard someone being murdered.

That should be a bannable offense on here. where the hell are the mods.

It says she
a. heard what she thought was a roommate playing with the dog
b. heard someone say "there's someone here"
c. heard someone crying

and she saw someone in a mask walk out, she had no clue anyone was hurt or dying.

that's it.

Not only that all we have are the portions the police chose to put in the affidavit. You know almost nothing but you want to condemn something and someone as crazy.

You ARE impugning a woman based on very little information.

Get out of here with that crap.

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Nice white knighting.

It doesn't have to say in the affidavit because they are dead. She DID hear the roommates getting murdered. It's not speculation or conjecture that she heard them getting murdered.


No clue anyone was hurt? Crying!? And she didn't check on them after she heard "someone's here"!?


Bannable!? You have to be joking.

---

She could have thought she overheard a bad night with someone her roommate took home from a bar? Only she knows what she believed was really going on and why she didn't call police or get involved.

The whole thing is tragedy and the only one to blame is the killer, not the surviving roommates.

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Come on! The roommate she heard crying (Xana) was in a relationship with Ethan and they were both home together that night. Your theory makes no sense.

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Yeah I haven't been following that closely.

Didn't Dylan open her door a few different times including after she heard "there's someone here". Her door was right by the stairwell and looked right into the kitchen. If Xana was in the kitchen or the killer hot on her trail coming down the stairs Dylan would have saw one of them?

Not exactly. The layout of the house is very odd. From memory I don't think you could see much into the kitchen from her door. Go back a few pages to a link Hawg posted that shows the layout of the house and allowed for a virtual walk through.

Sher Thing said:

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Didn't Dylan open her door a few different times including after she heard "there's someone here". Her door was right by the stairwell and looked right into the kitchen. If Xana was in the kitchen or the killer hot on her trail coming down the stairs Dylan would have saw one of them?

---

She opened it three times but the affidavit is not specific about how long that was after the events that preceeded it.

Dylan hears some noise she says she thinks is Kaylee playing with the dog. She does not open the door out at this point.

Dylan hears "There's someone here" and sometime after opens the door. We don't know if that was immediate or 1-2 minutes later. She sees nothing.

Dylan reports hearing possible crying and opens the door and hears a male voice saying "it's ok, I'm going to help you." Again she sees nothing.

Dylan opens the door the third time, some time later (it says after hearing crying) but we do not know how long after and this time is unique in that she sees the tall person dressed in black walking toward her. He passes by her door and exits out the sliding door.


From the layouts I've seen and pictures she does not have a view into most of the kitchen, especially if the door is cracked and peeking out. She would mostly see into the living area. She would also not have a view up the stairs unless she stuck her head out of the door. It's speculation but I get the sense she was cracking the door more than opening the door.

Quote:

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she sees the tall person dressed in black walking toward her.

---

So, she sees the killer on their way up the stairs after killing Xana and Ethan? I read it as she saw the killer as they were leaving and went out the sliding glass door. That does not reconcile given the floor plan above and the orientation of her door. Or did I misread the warrant affidavit?

Fireman said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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This seems highly likely.

Add in the fact that what appears to be Xana's phone is on a table in the kitchen (when we know she was on Tik tok at 4:12am) and the Jack in the Box bag on the counter with her name on it and I believe......with speculations of course....

• food delivered at 4:00am
• Xana got the food before BK entered and was in her room eating it and on her phone watching Tiktoks
• BK enters neighborhood at 4:04 am, parks at say 4:05am sees all lights out and enters sliding door shortly after between 4:06 and 4:10am
• Xana may have had earbuds in because Ethan was asleep, thus she heard nothing upstairs and between 4:06am and 4:12am was when BK went upstairs and killed Kaylee and Madison
• she took the bag back to the kitchen about 4:12am (after last TikTok access)
• this was when she said "there's someone here" because she either heard something, saw the sliding door open, saw the car parked behind there, etc.
• she may have set her phone down to close the sliding door(?)
• she went back to her room and left her phone, maybe because she saw or heard him and hurried back
• BK came downstairs having heard or seen her and followed her down that hallway
• he then severely injured her leaving her crying/whimpering just inside the bedroom door.
• and then he proceeded to kill Ethan who was sleeping but likely awakened by Xana's words or their struggle and this accounts for both the whimper and thud heard on exterior neighbor cam
• this is the point that Dylan opens her door (after she heard the "there's someone here" spoken) hears the crying but sees nothing
• he then told Xana "it's ok, I'm going to help you." which Dylan heard as well as he returns to Xana and kills her
• then he walks out and Dylan again opens her door a crack and sees him
• he likely did not see her but is beating a hasty retreat now anyway and drives away by 4:20am

I actually believe Xana put her phone down rather calmly, it does not look thrown but placed. And I believe she may have been spooked by the open door, closed it and then just left her phone. I think BK heard this from upstairs and waited until she returned to her room then came down and either met her in the hallway or opened the bedroom door and she fought back because she was awake as opposed to the other victims.

---

I think you've pretty much nailed it. My only difference between your timeline of events is the comment made by the killer "it's ok, I'm going to help you." I believe he made the comment before he attacked Xana the first time, not the second, but it doesn't have a major impact either way.

---

Possible.

But Dylan heard the crying before the phrase "it's ok I'm going to help you." My thought is she is crying due to the injuries thus he already wounded her severely. I'm thinking if she is not injured before that phrase then she is screaming not crying. But it's a guess.

stetson said:

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Quote:

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she sees the tall person dressed in black walking toward her.

---

So, she sees the killer on their way up the stairs after killing Xana and Ethan? I read it as she saw the killer as they were leaving and went out the sliding glass door. That does not reconcile given the floor plan above and the orientation of her door. Or did I misread the warrant affidavit?

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No he was leaving then. Out the sliding door. I edited and clarified above.

He killed Kaylee and Madison first on the top floor - when Dylan thought she heard Kaylee playing with the dog.

The room labeled vacant room is where Dylan was. She sees him come around the corner from Xana's room heading for the sliding door in the corner of the kitchen.

stetson said:

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Quote:

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she sees the tall person dressed in black walking toward her.

---

So, she sees the killer on their way up the stairs after killing Xana and Ethan? I read it as she saw the killer as they were leaving and went out the sliding glass door. That does not reconcile given the floor plan above and the orientation of her door. Or did I misread the warrant affidavit?

---

Walking toward her on his way out of the house through the kitchen.

Here's the virtual tour of the house that will help a lot of you out on the layout and where DM was. She was in Bedroom 2A in this model. If door was cracked and she saw him (and especially his face) then it must have been right as he left X & E hallway to the kitchen and RIGHT next to her while he was walking out, because there isn't a good vantage point really of anything else. This area is pretty weird.

miller0926 said:

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The room labeled vacant room is where Dylan was. She sees him come around the corner from Xana's room heading for the sliding door in the corner of the kitchen.

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Yes.

Originally that room was considered "vacant" because police reports indicated Dylan was asleep on the first floor. But we later learned she was in that room. They were purposefully misleading so that he did not know he was seen which also supports the concept that she had the door cracked and peeking out and he did not see her in the dark. Note there is also a neon "Good Vibes" light in the living area on the wall heading toward the kitchen that if it was on would have made it unlikely that he could see very well in that direction.

There was a 6th person on the lease who presumably occupied either that room or the other first floor room. But that person was not living at the house at the time. They had moved out.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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HtownAg92 said:

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torrid said:

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My two cents.

He came across either Kaylee or Madison in passing and became obsessed with them. Or maybe both as they always seemed to be together. Scenario one is he approached them and was rejected, so he killed them out of rage. Scenario two, I think more likely, is murdering them was part of his twisted sexual fantasies.

Xana and Ethan were collateral damage. Maybe they woke up. The other two roommates could just as easily have been killed.

---

Xana probably never went to sleep because she had just ordered food. Ethan was probably passed out. She is eating her food and hears commotion upstairs. She opens door to hear better, says "There's someone here" to passed out Ethan, DM hears it. DM goes back in her room, killer comes down stairs and Xana is still out of her room. Kills her then goes in and kills sleeping Ethan.

---

This seems highly likely.

Add in the fact that what appears to be Xana's phone is on a table in the kitchen (when we know she was on Tik tok at 4:12am) and the Jack in the Box bag on the counter with her name on it and I believe......with speculations of course....

• food delivered at 4:00am
• Xana got the food before BK entered and was in her room eating it and on her phone watching Tiktoks
• BK enters neighborhood at 4:04 am, parks at say 4:05am sees all lights out and enters sliding door shortly after between 4:06 and 4:10am
• Xana may have had earbuds in because Ethan was asleep, thus she heard nothing upstairs and between 4:06am and 4:12am was when BK went upstairs and killed Kaylee and Madison
• she took the bag back to the kitchen about 4:12am (after last TikTok access)
• this was when she said "there's someone here" because she either heard something, saw the sliding door open, saw the car parked behind there, etc.
• she may have set her phone down to close the sliding door(?)
• she went back to her room and left her phone, maybe because she saw or heard him and hurried back
• BK came downstairs having heard or seen her and followed her down that hallway
• he then severely injured her leaving her crying/whimpering just inside the bedroom door.
• and then he proceeded to kill Ethan who was sleeping but likely awakened by Xana's words or their struggle and this accounts for both the whimper and thud heard on exterior neighbor cam
• this is the point that Dylan opens her door (after she heard the "there's someone here" spoken) hears the crying but sees nothing
• he then told Xana "it's ok, I'm going to help you." which Dylan heard as well as he returns to Xana and kills her
• then he walks out and Dylan again opens her door a crack and sees him
• he likely did not see her but is beating a hasty retreat now anyway and drives away by 4:20am

I actually believe Xana put her phone down rather calmly, it does not look thrown but placed. And I believe she may have been spooked by the open door, closed it and then just left her phone. I think BK heard this from upstairs and waited until she returned to her room then came down and either met her in the hallway or opened the bedroom door and she fought back because she was awake as opposed to the other victims.

---

This seems to be a very reasonable estimation of the sequence and timeline of events based on everything that I have read. I'm sure there will be some differences, but this is about as reasonable as it gets based on the information we have today.

As to why he didn't kill DM, he either didn't see her because he was focused on looking towards the kitchen to get out (possibly poor vision from the neon sign) or he was simply exhausted after stabbing 4 other victims to death and didn't have he energy to kill another one.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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From that virtual setup:

This is the view out of Dylans room BUT if you are standing in the middle of a fully open door.

She was likely peeking out of the cracked door and mostly seeing to the right where the hallway to Xana's room is.




This is the view of his exit from Xana's hall in the living room heading toward the junction of Dylan's door, the stairs up and the kitchen to the right. You can barely see her door from this view and if it is cracked and dark and you are heading out the kitchen you likely barely notice it. Also the Good Vibes sign has possibly affected his vision.





This is the view as he turns into the kitchen to exit. Dylans door would be on the left there and cracked open.

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Possible chance he thought that wasn't even a bedroom.

From the virtual tour, it doesn't look like there's a lock on that bedroom door. Click in the room, then click the dot on the floor to get a movable view of the door knob.

Maybe the movable photos are just lacking certain detail? I noticed a few other small differences between the movable and still photos.

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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Possible chance he thought that wasn't even a bedroom.

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Possible but from the back of the house entering the kitchen you kind of have to know there is another room on that half - the back of the house is flush.

But there are other doorways - closets, bathrooms, etc....so possible.


Personally I think he just knew exactly where he was going and had a plan which makes this a case of specific intended targets or at least the first target.

Madison's room had a big M in the window. And it seems as though he went there first.
But he may have gone to Kaylees room first and found her not there and then found them both in Madisons room.

Xana might have been a second intended target or he knew she was alerted to his presence and eliminated her as well and Ethan because he was there.

gotsand said:

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From the virtual tour, it doesn't look like there's a lock on that bedroom door. Click in the room, then click the dot on the floor to get a movable view of the door knob.

Maybe the movable photos are just lacking certain detail? I noticed a few other small differences between the movable and still photos.

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I believe it is a mockup someone made, not an actual 3D tour.

Maybe he found a virtual tour online prior to and studied it. Then went and did surveillance to know who lived where.

Holy smokes. That's some free time. Explains the differences though, thanks.

Zombie does good work for a Zombie.

After reading some of what's come out, this guy is a ****ing psycho and there's enough for me to put him away if I'm on the jury. He's need some serious exculpatory evidence to convince me he didn't do this

ABATTBQ11 said:

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After reading some of what's come out, this guy is a ****ing psycho and there's enough for me to put him away if I'm on the jury. He's need some serious exculpatory evidence to convince me he didn't do this

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Lots of TV talking heads running with the Incel theory but I haven't seen any evidence that he was a participant in that online group of losers. The only thing I have seen is him being considered a creep by the female staff of a bar, enough to be put on a watch list there. I imagine the FBI is doing a forensic search of any computer and phone he used to look for posts in web forums, Reddit, Facebook, etc that would be evidence in the case and if he posted to the Incel forums that will be known eventually.