I have not read this whole thread, but I am starting to get the feeling this is going to end up like the Jonbenet Ramsey case where the cops have fouled up the investigation so much they never get it sorted out.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murders-convicted-killer-arrested-mile-from-university-stabbings

Disregard

Dang headline got me before reading.

My mistake

Can't blame you, that headline is terribly misleading.

From that link.

Quote:

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Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt was elected to office in 2006, shortly before Leonard's murder case, and is both an attorney and a nurse.

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Coroner not a doctor? Well, guess as long as their ME is the one conducting autopsies and she only does inquests to determine manner of death. Is unusual in my experience for the head of a Coroner's office not to be forensically trained doctor. Small town symptom I guess.

Coroners are elected officials and not typically MDs especially in small town America.

As opposed to an ME who would obvs be an MD.

JFABNRGR said:

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gotsand said:

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aggiehawg said:

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I never said an arrest was imminent.

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Not you, JNABRFBR (or something).

---

Maybe you need to reread my post. I posed a question; based on my experiences on a special operations team and ongoing training with the like, that these guys in the video from last night were not evidence gurus or even investigators but a group of door smashers with FED LE.

I can't think of any reason why door smashers would spend an hour have any other reason to be in the house taking nothing in and leaving with nothing. Maybe they are all edge weapon experts and are giving their input on how long and how physical they think it would have taken them, thought they should have done it separately to avoid group bias.

---

"Arrest Imminent?"

I saw the question mark you added, sure. However, you addressed it towards a group who would have absolutely no way of answering the question. Further, by your own words above, you can't think of any other reason for LEO's to be on site. That suggests you were making a rhetorical statement, not asking a genuine question.

ETA: In the event it was a genuine question, I sincerely apologize for mislabeling your intent. My answer is, "I don't know."

gotsand said:

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JFABNRGR said:

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gotsand said:

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aggiehawg said:

---

I never said an arrest was imminent.

---

Not you, JNABRFBR (or something).

---

Maybe you need to reread my post. I posed a question; based on my experiences on a special operations team and ongoing training with the like, that these guys in the video from last night were not evidence gurus or even investigators but a group of door smashers with FED LE.

I can't think of any reason why door smashers would spend an hour have any other reason to be in the house taking nothing in and leaving with nothing. Maybe they are all edge weapon experts and are giving their input on how long and how physical they think it would have taken them, thought they should have done it separately to avoid group bias.

---

"Arrest Imminent?"

I saw the question mark you added, sure. However, you addressed it towards a group who would have absolutely no way of answering the question. Further, by your own words above, you can't think of any other reason for LEO's to be on site. That suggests you were making a rhetorical statement, not asking a genuine question.

---

I'm not familiar enough with your posting/style, but I am with aggiehawg's.... are you purposefully trying to come across as an argumentative ahole or is that by accident? aggiehawg is simply trying to promote conversation, and it seems like you are being argumentative for arguementative's sake.

NPH- said:

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gotsand said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

gotsand said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

I never said an arrest was imminent.

---

Not you, JNABRFBR (or something).

---

Maybe you need to reread my post. I posed a question; based on my experiences on a special operations team and ongoing training with the like, that these guys in the video from last night were not evidence gurus or even investigators but a group of door smashers with FED LE.

I can't think of any reason why door smashers would spend an hour have any other reason to be in the house taking nothing in and leaving with nothing. Maybe they are all edge weapon experts and are giving their input on how long and how physical they think it would have taken them, thought they should have done it separately to avoid group bias.

---

"Arrest Imminent?"

I saw the question mark you added, sure. However, you addressed it towards a group who would have absolutely no way of answering the question. Further, by your own words above, you can't think of any other reason for LEO's to be on site. That suggests you were making a rhetorical statement, not asking a genuine question.

I have noticed this too. Seems like a dick for no real reason.

---

I'm not familiar enough with your posting/style, but I am with aggiehawg's.... are you purposefully trying to come across as an argumentative ahole or is that by accident? aggiehawg is simply trying to promote conversation, and it seems like you are being argumentative for arguementative's sake.

---

I have noticed this too. Seems like a dick to hawg for no real reason.

Edit to add that hawg has kept her composure nicely when dealing with this guy. I would not have.

NPH- said:

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gotsand said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

gotsand said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

I never said an arrest was imminent.

---

Not you, JNABRFBR (or something).

---

Maybe you need to reread my post. I posed a question; based on my experiences on a special operations team and ongoing training with the like, that these guys in the video from last night were not evidence gurus or even investigators but a group of door smashers with FED LE.

I can't think of any reason why door smashers would spend an hour have any other reason to be in the house taking nothing in and leaving with nothing. Maybe they are all edge weapon experts and are giving their input on how long and how physical they think it would have taken them, thought they should have done it separately to avoid group bias.

---

"Arrest Imminent?"

I saw the question mark you added, sure. However, you addressed it towards a group who would have absolutely no way of answering the question. Further, by your own words above, you can't think of any other reason for LEO's to be on site. That suggests you were making a rhetorical statement, not asking a genuine question.

---

I'm not familiar enough with your posting/style, but I am with aggiehawg's.... are you purposefully trying to come across as an argumentative ahole or is that by accident? aggiehawg is simply trying to promote conversation, and it seems like you are being argumentative for arguementative's sake.

---

You replied prior to my edit apologizing if they were really asking if an arrest was imminent.

This isn't reddit. Asking if speculation was baseless (or pointing out it is baseless) isn't being an ahole. And, note my other posts -- I'll provide info if I know or can find it; viz., the property records saying there was no oil-based HVAC.

Aggiehawg,

I enjoy and look forward to your posts. My responses were not meant to stir the pot and did not convey the context which was intended. Please accept my apologies for my lack of decorum.

FTR: I don't think you were a dick to me. Obtuse at times but I'm accustomed to that happening on long threads when a lot of information gets posted and it can be hard to follow all of it thoroughly.

aggiehawg said:

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FTR: I don't think you were a dick to me. Obtuse at times but I'm accustomed to that happening on long threads when a lot of information gets posted and it can be hard to follow all of it thoroughly.

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That's a fair observation.

AgsMnn said:

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Looks like arrest has been made?

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They are currently saying it is not related.

gotsand said:

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NPH- said:

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gotsand said:

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JFABNRGR said:

---

gotsand said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

I never said an arrest was imminent.

---

Not you, JNABRFBR (or something).

---

Maybe you need to reread my post. I posed a question; based on my experiences on a special operations team and ongoing training with the like, that these guys in the video from last night were not evidence gurus or even investigators but a group of door smashers with FED LE.

I can't think of any reason why door smashers would spend an hour have any other reason to be in the house taking nothing in and leaving with nothing. Maybe they are all edge weapon experts and are giving their input on how long and how physical they think it would have taken them, thought they should have done it separately to avoid group bias.

---

"Arrest Imminent?"

I saw the question mark you added, sure. However, you addressed it towards a group who would have absolutely no way of answering the question. Further, by your own words above, you can't think of any other reason for LEO's to be on site. That suggests you were making a rhetorical statement, not asking a genuine question.

---

I'm not familiar enough with your posting/style, but I am with aggiehawg's.... are you purposefully trying to come across as an argumentative ahole or is that by accident? aggiehawg is simply trying to promote conversation, and it seems like you are being argumentative for arguementative's sake.

---

You replied prior to my edit apologizing if they were really asking if an arrest was imminent.

This isn't reddit. Asking if speculation was baseless (or pointing out it is baseless) isn't being an ahole. And, note my other posts -- I'll provide info if I know or can find it; viz., the property records saying there was no oil-based HVAC.

---

Was simply asking if that was your intent as you've had multiple posts that borderline ahole'ish. As I prefaced, I'm not familiar with your posting style, so clearly your intent was not to come across in that manner, and if I offended you for asking if you were trying to be an ahole I apologize. Asking for supporting data of users' posts is absolutely acceptable, but you can do it in a much more respectable manner. This is coming from a guy who has been banned plenty of times for being disrespectful to other users and completely biased anonymous mods before seeing the error in my ways. Nowadays, I am NEVER disrespectful to completely biased mods.

gotsand said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

FTR: I don't think you were a dick to me. Obtuse at times but I'm accustomed to that happening on long threads when a lot of information gets posted and it can be hard to follow all of it thoroughly.

---

That's a fair observation.

---

We're cool.

NPH- said:

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gotsand said:

---

NPH- said:

---

gotsand said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

gotsand said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

I never said an arrest was imminent.

---

Not you, JNABRFBR (or something).

---

Maybe you need to reread my post. I posed a question; based on my experiences on a special operations team and ongoing training with the like, that these guys in the video from last night were not evidence gurus or even investigators but a group of door smashers with FED LE.

I can't think of any reason why door smashers would spend an hour have any other reason to be in the house taking nothing in and leaving with nothing. Maybe they are all edge weapon experts and are giving their input on how long and how physical they think it would have taken them, thought they should have done it separately to avoid group bias.

---

"Arrest Imminent?"

I saw the question mark you added, sure. However, you addressed it towards a group who would have absolutely no way of answering the question. Further, by your own words above, you can't think of any other reason for LEO's to be on site. That suggests you were making a rhetorical statement, not asking a genuine question.

---

I'm not familiar enough with your posting/style, but I am with aggiehawg's.... are you purposefully trying to come across as an argumentative ahole or is that by accident? aggiehawg is simply trying to promote conversation, and it seems like you are being argumentative for arguementative's sake.

---

You replied prior to my edit apologizing if they were really asking if an arrest was imminent.

This isn't reddit. Asking if speculation was baseless (or pointing out it is baseless) isn't being an ahole. And, note my other posts -- I'll provide info if I know or can find it; viz., the property records saying there was no oil-based HVAC.

---

Was simply asking if that was your intent as you've had multiple posts that borderline ahole'ish. As I prefaced, I'm not familiar with your posting style, so clearly your intent was not to come across in that manner, and if I offended you for asking if you were trying to be an ahole I apologize. Asking for supporting data of users' posts is absolutely acceptable, but you can do it in a much more respectable manner. This is coming from a guy who has been banned plenty of times for being disrespectful to other users and completely biased anonymous mods before seeing the error in my ways. Nowadays, I am NEVER disrespectful to completely biased mods.

---

That's constructive. Thank you.

Enjoying the GB and F16 can be a dangerous combination. I enjoy sarcasm and generally try to keep things light. Context is difficult sometimes, and I'll proofread though a different lens.

Sorry to all here.

Back to Moscow:

Police saying the white car on the bodycam video is not the Elantra they are looking for and is unrelated.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/idaho-murders-update-white-hyundai-elantra-moscow-b2241743.html

So what is the purpose of the body cam video?

Bluecat_Aggie94 said:

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So what is the purpose of the body cam video?

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Just trying to maybe trigger someone's memory of something they didn't think much about at the time? Seems the most likely reason to me.

93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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I don't point fingers to accuse her of being suspicious, unfortunately, many people's reaction to anything related to law enforcement is to not cooperate. Could be her lawyer just saying out of self preservation.

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I used to think people that didn't cooperate with cops were either guilty or just bad people. But after decades of watching corrupt DAs prosecute innocent people so that they can "solve" a crime and pander to the locals for the next election I no longer think that way.

---

Exactly

I have the same thought you do- and I went to law school.

no way would I voluntarily speak to LE, especially without a defense attorney present.

Quote:

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The police chief of the college town where four University of Idaho students were slain last month has admitted that he was unaware that a neighbor reported seeing the door of their home wide open on the morning of the murders.

Moscow Police Chief James Fry appeared taken aback when asked about an unnamed neighbor's claim that the door wasn't shut about 8:30 a.m. Nov. 13, the day Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Ethan Chapin, 20, are believed to have been killed in the early hours.

"I'm not even sure where that came from, to be quite honest," Fry told the Daily Mail on Thursday, adding that it was the first time he had heard anything about an open door.

The chief also said he could neither confirm nor deny the report.

"I don't even know the answer to that one. If I did, I would probably comment on that but I don't know the answer whether the door was open," he told the outlet.

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That's not good if true and he didn't know that. Also from same report::

Quote:

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The footage which was unrelated to the murders and obtained through a public records request captured plainclothes officers stopping three students suspected of underage drinking about 2:50 a.m., Fox News reported.

They were reportedly stopped about a tenth of a mile from the off-campus home on King Road where the four students were killed.

The three University of Idaho students who were stopped were not involved in the crime, police stressed.

---

Plainclothes cops but with body cams? Is that normal?

LINK

20 sec mark you can hear a faint scream

Valtrex_11 said:

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20 sec mark you can hear a faint scream

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Could be a human scream. Could be a dog. Hell where we live, could be a large hoot owl. Gonna have to wash that audio through some filters to get a better idea.

As far as private investigators go, what was the name of that outfit out of Texas that worked on the Natalee Holloway case? Equis? Or something like that?

I cannot say if it's normal, but cams w/ plainclothes is not without precedent: https://patch.com/new-jersey/newarknj/newark-now-requires-most-plainclothes-cops-wear-body-cameras

Seems reasonable if they're just running around ticketing kids drinking.

Valtrex_11 said:

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Read Dylan lawyered up and wont give a DNA test

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I am a lawyer so of course I will say this, but it shouldn't take being a lawyer to know that this is the absolute smartest possible thing one can do in this situation, period. I'm not saying don't "ever" talk to the cops, but if it's just about anything other than jaywalking or a speeding ticket, don't talk to the cops.

Especially in a non-victimless crime where the police are looking for suspects, if you bear some relationship to that crime, even if it's by pure happenstance, no matter how distant, do not talk to the cops. I am honestly surprised that the victims' own immediately family members are out talking to media and posting on Instagram and whatnot. That is so stupid. I'm sure they (the immediate family) are all innocent, but I would have told all of them to lawyer up from day 1 ESPECIALLY if they are innocent.

I think a lot of people believe that criminal defense lawyers' primary function is to defend criminals and suspected criminals. I think their primary function is just as much to ensure that innocent people are not made out to be criminals or suspected criminals by law enforcement.

https://texasequusearch.org/

I am always wrong said:

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Valtrex_11 said:

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Read Dylan lawyered up and wont give a DNA test

---

I am a lawyer so of course I will say this, but it shouldn't take being a lawyer to know that this is the absolute smartest possible thing one can do in this situation, period. I'm not saying don't "ever" talk to the cops, but if it's just about anything other than jaywalking or a speeding ticket, don't talk to the cops.

Especially in a non-victimless crime where the police are looking for suspects, if you bear some relationship to that crime, even if it's by pure happenstance, no matter how distant, do not talk to the cops. I am honestly surprised that the victims' own immediately family members are out talking to media and posting on Instagram and whatnot. That is so stupid. I'm sure they (the immediate family) are all innocent, but I would have told all of them to lawyer up from day 1 ESPECIALLY if they are innocent.

I think a lot of people believe that criminal defense lawyers' primary function is to defend criminals and suspected criminals. I think their primary function is just as much to ensure that innocent people are not made out to be criminals or suspected criminals by law enforcement.

---

right of course but its a bad look

Thanks.

If you haven't seen the documentary on the Teas Killing Fields (Netflix), you should.

It highlights txequisearch, amazing people.

aggiehawg said:

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Valtrex_11 said:

---

20 sec mark you can hear a faint scream

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Could be a human scream. Could be a dog. Hell where we live, could be a large hoot owl. Gonna have to wash that audio through some filters to get a better idea.

---

why link are y'all talking about? I know we are talking about the bodycam footage, but every link i've seen has some variation at the 20 sec mark.

aggiehawg said:

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Valtrex_11 said:

---

20 sec mark you can hear a faint scream

---

Could be a human scream. Could be a dog. Hell where we live, could be a large hoot owl. Gonna have to wash that audio through some filters to get a better idea.

---

What time did they arrive home?

This one. I had to really crank the volume and play it over several times to hear it.

Valtrex_11 said:

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I am always wrong said:

---

Valtrex_11 said:

---

Read Dylan lawyered up and wont give a DNA test

---

I am a lawyer so of course I will say this, but it shouldn't take being a lawyer to know that this is the absolute smartest possible thing one can do in this situation, period. I'm not saying don't "ever" talk to the cops, but if it's just about anything other than jaywalking or a speeding ticket, don't talk to the cops.

Especially in a non-victimless crime where the police are looking for suspects, if you bear some relationship to that crime, even if it's by pure happenstance, no matter how distant, do not talk to the cops. I am honestly surprised that the victims' own immediately family members are out talking to media and posting on Instagram and whatnot. That is so stupid. I'm sure they (the immediate family) are all innocent, but I would have told all of them to lawyer up from day 1 ESPECIALLY if they are innocent.

I think a lot of people believe that criminal defense lawyers' primary function is to defend criminals and suspected criminals. I think their primary function is just as much to ensure that innocent people are not made out to be criminals or suspected criminals by law enforcement.

---

right of course but its a bad look

---

I don't think so. Assuming she is innocent, she (along with the other roommate) is one of the two most likely people in the world to have her DNA in some incriminating place through no fault of her own. There is no way I would just hand over a DNA sample if I lived in that house. Make them establish the probable cause for a warrant if they want the DNA.