Faustus said:

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At the end of the day he invaded because the West crossed an intolerable red line with NATO cozying up to Ukraine. We called his bluff and now Ukraine has to pay the price in blood while we pay the price in money.

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I guess he'll be invading Finland and Sweden next then, and they'll pay the price in blood too for their temerity in choosing to join NATO. Putin has red lines about what other countries do, so he has no choice but to invade them too.

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Ukraine and Finland present very different strategic and historical situations. Very different things.

we finally Texit!!! The Lone Star State finally regains its independence! Many of us are proud Texans and happy to get away from the filth in Washington DC. We can carve our own path! Of course, a lot of Texans were against it.. still feel like Americans, especially military veterans. ...getting set up with a new government that now has security and defense obligations, new taxation systems are necessary.. it's a rough going.. only to find out years later that Lord Chancellor Abbott is aligning Texas with the CCP. The CCP and Abbott want to set up a military base in Dallas. Washington DC is not happy about this. Feels like Abbott's corruption and all this alignment talk is a direct threat against USA. CIA is engaging in psyops. CCP is engaging in psyops. President of USA is threatening to take Texas back to the Union if CCP doesn't back off... People are split - don't want to be aligned with CCP, don't want USA to invade, don't trust Abbott and his corruption at all... the talks don't go away. Now the US Military is coming towards Austin to remove Abbott. Many of us leave. Some "home" to mother USA via Oklahoma or Louisiana border. Some down south to Mexico. Military and key roads and infrastructure are being bombed. CCP is sending aid and support so Abbott and the loyal Texans militias can fight back. Many of the people in the country would rather just rejoin the Union.

FriscoKid said:

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the West crossed an intolerable red line with NATO cozying up to Ukraine.

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Joining NATO looks pretty attractive now for Ukraine, and for good reason. Once again, you don't think they have a right to defend themselves. I don't get it dude.

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This isn't playground politics. When you're on the periphery of a much larger power and decide to ally with said power's adversary, you're going to have to face the consequences.

That is true. What would we do really, if Mexico joined a military alliance with Xi's China?

Its quite a conundrum in there is no way it leads to peace.

RebelE Infantry said:

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FriscoKid said:

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the West crossed an intolerable red line with NATO cozying up to Ukraine.

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Joining NATO looks pretty attractive now for Ukraine, and for good reason. Once again, you don't think they have a right to defend themselves. I don't get it dude.

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This isn't playground politics. When you're on the periphery of a much larger power and decide to ally with said power's adversary, you're going to have to face the consequences.

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I don't remember them saying that they wanted to join NATO back in February or before. I think they actually said that they had no plans of doing so. I do think they expressed interest in joining the EU, but not NATO.

(And, i sympathize with them wanting to be more European. That should be a good thing.)

I'm thinking more of The breakaway regions like Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts and Crimea between Ukraine and Russia as compared to Texas, and maybe other western US states, and Mexico and The USA. Maybe even throw Mexico going independent of Spain first in there.

FriscoKid said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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FriscoKid said:

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the West crossed an intolerable red line with NATO cozying up to Ukraine.

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Joining NATO looks pretty attractive now for Ukraine, and for good reason. Once again, you don't think they have a right to defend themselves. I don't get it dude.

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This isn't playground politics. When you're on the periphery of a much larger power and decide to ally with said power's adversary, you're going to have to face the consequences.

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I don't remember them saying that they wanted to join NATO back in February or before. I think they actually said that they had no plans of doing so. I do think they expressed interest in joining the EU, but not NATO.

(And, i sympathize with them wanting to be more European. That should be a good thing.)

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It has been an explicit goal for them since October 2014. Talks of joining NATO go at least as far back as 2008 and it was reiterated at the June 2021 NATO summit that Ukraine would be allowed to move forward with membership.

Perhaps Russia should perform some introspection on why countries would want to join NATO.

Also, these referenda will mean nothing.

Great point!

Thank you!!!
I have been saying this for years on this forum.
Standing there all alone, wearing my tin hat and sniffing glue.

It scares the shiitake mushrooms out of me.
They, (China) will come up through Central America and then one day, they'll be at the door for dinner.

They are doing a great job of claiming the ass beating that apparently belongs to them too. Dangerous, tho, for sure.

oh no said:

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where did i say kindness of his heart? them becoming a nato member is a direct threat to him as the west would have military presence at his border.

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NATO already has a presence at his border, and has had one for a while.

Latvia and Estonia.

Two more countries if you count Kaliningrad with Poland and Lithuania. Hell, the Bering sea is all that separates a NATO country on his east.

It's a red herring.

He's in Ukraine because he thought it would be easy and he could get away with it.

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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Serotonin said:

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That area has been Russian ethnic majority for a long time:


Of course they would rather be part of Russia, if they stay in Ukraine the prospects will be...not good.

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I don't see how the ethinic majority is relevant to predicting they want to be part of ukraine. thats like saying because south texas is majority mexican ethnicity, they would vote to suceed from the united states and join mexico.

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Because ukrainians have been at war with Russian-ukrainians for a decade.

Buford T. Justice said:

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It scares the shiitake mushrooms out of me.
They, (China) will come up through Central America and then one day, they'll be at the door for dinner.

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They (China) already have controlling interest in so many resources around the world in South America and Africa and so many industries including logistics, media, tech, and entertainment and the world's biggest financial institutions and global corporations need access to their enormous economy for investment and market expansion / growth. They are already buying land in the US and Mexico and have taken over a lot of Canada's education and institutions. They've got the world by the balls and people aren't scared enough.

RebelE Infantry said:

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At the end of the day he invaded because the West crossed an intolerable red line with NATO cozying up to Ukraine. We called his bluff and now Ukraine has to pay the price in blood while we pay the price in money.

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This is correct but it distorts the truth somewhat. Putin wants to restore some portion of Russia's old empire and glory. As far as Ukraine, he didn't care whether he controlled them indirectly as a puppet state or directly as a portion of Russia's territory, but he demanded complete subservience in foreign and defense policy (which extends substantially into economic policy). So yes the west meddled in his plans and in what he saw as his sphere of influence, but his threshold was always unsustainably low. He would not tolerate any exercise of independent political will from Ukraine, and it was never reasonable to assume that they wouldn't ever exhibit that.

In Russian eyes all former Soviet states are one of two things:
1) Completely Subservient like Belarus; so when Putin says jump they ask how high
2) Something other than completely subservient (Ukraine for instance). Anyone in camp #2 risks being compromised by Russia in many different ways.

Not sure how some would expect Ukraine to not seek protection from the neighborhood bully.

Some people just love being nuanced, but often that "nuance" means gulping down whatever bull**** spin Russia has spun out that day.

RebelE Infantry said:

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At the end of the day he invaded because the West crossed an intolerable red line with NATO cozying up to Ukraine. We called his bluff and now Ukraine has to pay the price in blood while we pay the price in money.

ETA- The Russians' biggest mistakes were drastically underestimating the degree of ethnogenesis that has taken place since 2014 and the West's willingness to fight a proxy war at the expense of their own peoples' living standards.

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No he didn't. He invaded because he wanted land and resources and wants Novorossiya. This is textbook victim blaming.

Putin and his forces never should have started this. Let's not pretend they have any noble goal whatsoever.

ETA: Man, weird that the pro-Russian replies suddenly stopped coming in.

Serotonin said:

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That area has been Russian ethnic majority for a long time:


Of course they would rather be part of Russia, if they stay in Ukraine the prospects will be...not good.

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Texas will soon be majority ethnically Mexican, I guess we will just turn it over?

Oh well then, that sounds fair.

Serotonin said:

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That area has been Russian ethnic majority for a long time:

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Of course Stalin starving millions of Ukrainians helped skew the numbers a bit,

BattleGrackle said:

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Serotonin said:

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That area has been Russian ethnic majority for a long time:


Of course they would rather be part of Russia, if they stay in Ukraine the prospects will be...not good.

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Texas will soon be majority ethnically Mexican, I guess we will just turn it over?

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If Texas was only 30 years old then yeah, that could be in play.

All of history is filled with shifting borders, ethnicities and groups fighting over plots of land.

In the Crimean War who spilled the blood of thousands of men in defense, Ukranians/Ruthenians or Russians?