Charpie said:

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That's not what this thread is about. You want to talk about that? Start a new one

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Was the new tech money behind the new inchoate right what this thread is about? His post was nothing more than a trolling dig. And unless you are a mod, please refrain from telling what I can and cannot post.

93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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Yes, because along with Christian belief comes the knowledge of human frailty and fallibility due to the sin of Adam and Eve. I believe that my Church is infallible with regard to faith and morals as that was Christ's promise; so naturally I look to them

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The foundation of your argument is based on an appeal to a fictional authority (God). You believe that your church is infallible? Seriously? Everything you worship was created or written down by a flesh and blood human claiming a divine inspiration. Same as Muhamad or any other religion. Believe what you want, but using it as an argument to sway others is silly.

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Yes, I would have thought you knew a little bit about the teachings of the world's largest religious denomination but I have no problem educating you.

All of Western Civilization was founded on the back of my church. Like it or not, the values that you hold dear are heavily influenced by Roman and Greek legal and moral philosophy perfected by the Catholic Church.

Silian Rail said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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Yes, because along with Christian belief comes the knowledge of human frailty and fallibility due to the sin of Adam and Eve. I believe that my Church is infallible with regard to faith and morals as that was Christ's promise; so naturally I look to them

---

The foundation of your argument is based on an appeal to a fictional authority (God). You believe that your church is infallible? Seriously? Everything you worship was created or written down by a flesh and blood human claiming a divine inspiration. Same as Muhamad or any other religion. Believe what you want, but using it as an argument to sway others is silly.

---

Yes, I would have thought you knew a little bit about the teachings of the world's largest religious denomination but I have no problem educating you.

All of Western Civilization was founded on the back of my church. Like it or not, the values that you hold dear are heavily influenced by Roman and Greek legal and moral philosophy perfected by the Catholic Church.

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Haha this is golden. Y'all religious nuts on here are worried about getting raped by the gay guy down the street when your church was responsible for the largest pedophile controversy in my life time.

One Louder said:

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Martin Cash said:

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One Louder said:

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I have never cheated on my husband nor would I consider it but this is ludicrous. Better start building more jails!

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Rules???

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I'm almost 50. That should nullify Rule #1.

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Carmen Electra is 50 and I still like to look.

PrestigeWorldwideAg12 said:

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One Louder said:

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Martin Cash said:

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One Louder said:

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I have never cheated on my husband nor would I consider it but this is ludicrous. Better start building more jails!

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Rules???

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I'm almost 50. That should nullify Rule #1.

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Carmen Electra is 50 and I still like to look.

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Are you married? If so, watch out….they're gunna put you in jail.

TH36 said:

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PrestigeWorldwideAg12 said:

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One Louder said:

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Martin Cash said:

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One Louder said:

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I have never cheated on my husband nor would I consider it but this is ludicrous. Better start building more jails!

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Rules???

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I'm almost 50. That should nullify Rule #1.

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Carmen Electra is 50 and I still like to look.

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Are you married? If so, watch out….they're gunna put you in jail.

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I'm married... But will look and not touch.

TH36 said:

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Silian Rail said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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Yes, because along with Christian belief comes the knowledge of human frailty and fallibility due to the sin of Adam and Eve. I believe that my Church is infallible with regard to faith and morals as that was Christ's promise; so naturally I look to them

---

The foundation of your argument is based on an appeal to a fictional authority (God). You believe that your church is infallible? Seriously? Everything you worship was created or written down by a flesh and blood human claiming a divine inspiration. Same as Muhamad or any other religion. Believe what you want, but using it as an argument to sway others is silly.

---

Yes, I would have thought you knew a little bit about the teachings of the world's largest religious denomination but I have no problem educating you.

All of Western Civilization was founded on the back of my church. Like it or not, the values that you hold dear are heavily influenced by Roman and Greek legal and moral philosophy perfected by the Catholic Church.

---

Haha this is golden. Y'all religious nuts on here are worried about getting raped by the gay guy down the street when your church was responsible for the largest pedophile controversy in my life time.

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Yes, we had a gigantic gay problem in the priesthood. It appears the tendencies don't vanish when you put on the cassock, which is why gays are not supposed to be ordained.

Quote:

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All of Western Civilization was founded on the back of my church. Like it or not, the values that you hold dear are heavily influenced by Roman and Greek legal and moral philosophy perfected by the Catholic Church.

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No doubt there is heavy Christian influence in the law, the Constitution and so forth. But those laws and norms don't need to be backed up by a belief in a supreme being for them to be persuasive. I'm getting a chuckle at you piggy-backing on the Catholic church like you and the church are a successful football franchise

Silian Rail said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Silian Rail said:

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javajaws said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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So, here we are at the problem: they believe people lack the agency and capacity to define their own meaning and purpose and that only religion, preferably theirs, can deliver that. Without religion to tell you how to think and feel, you can't derive those things on your own, and you can function only as a self-serving automaton. They're so caught up in their own beliefs, they can't imagine how anyone could possibly think differently, hence the tone deafness and impracticality.

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It's odd how similar the religious right is to liberals in this aspect. Liberals look towards government for guidance while the religious right looks to their religion. Neither have 100% faith in themselves.

I think in general this is a characteristic of much of humanity (not just Americans) - the need to not feel alone and to have something else to guide and help them through life.

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Yes, because along with Christian belief comes the knowledge of human frailty and fallibility due to the sin of Adam and Eve. I believe that my Church is infallible with regard to faith and morals as that was Christ's promise; so naturally I look to them.

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Churches are not infallible. They are led by men. Christ never promised that churches would be infallible.

In fact he warned against church leaders that teach incorrect doctorine, implying that the church and its leaders would make mistakes, some of which would be intentional.

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You are incorrect, take the Bible for example; is the bible the inspired word of God or isn't it. If it is, how did that happen?

Christ was very big on authority, although he thought the Pharisees were hypocrites, he encouraged his disciples to do what they said, if not what they did, for they sat in the seat of Moses.

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I like how you throw the words "inspired word" in there yet totally fail to grasp the implications of that because of your zealotry.

93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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All of Western Civilization was founded on the back of my church. Like it or not, the values that you hold dear are heavily influenced by Roman and Greek legal and moral philosophy perfected by the Catholic Church.

---

No doubt there is heavy Christian influence in the law, the Constitution and so forth. But those laws and norms don't need to be backed up by a belief in a supreme being for them to be persuasive. I'm getting a chuckle at you piggy-backing on the Catholic church like you and the church are a successful football franchise

---

They do need to backed up by a belief in a supreme being to be persuasive, otherwise there's no reason to adhere to them if it's just some 18th century politico's opinion other than "i like this" and people like all sorts of different things.

javajaws said:

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Silian Rail said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Silian Rail said:

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javajaws said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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So, here we are at the problem: they believe people lack the agency and capacity to define their own meaning and purpose and that only religion, preferably theirs, can deliver that. Without religion to tell you how to think and feel, you can't derive those things on your own, and you can function only as a self-serving automaton. They're so caught up in their own beliefs, they can't imagine how anyone could possibly think differently, hence the tone deafness and impracticality.

---

It's odd how similar the religious right is to liberals in this aspect. Liberals look towards government for guidance while the religious right looks to their religion. Neither have 100% faith in themselves.

I think in general this is a characteristic of much of humanity (not just Americans) - the need to not feel alone and to have something else to guide and help them through life.

---

Yes, because along with Christian belief comes the knowledge of human frailty and fallibility due to the sin of Adam and Eve. I believe that my Church is infallible with regard to faith and morals as that was Christ's promise; so naturally I look to them.

---

Churches are not infallible. They are led by men. Christ never promised that churches would be infallible.

In fact he warned against church leaders that teach incorrect doctorine, implying that the church and its leaders would make mistakes, some of which would be intentional.

---

You are incorrect, take the Bible for example; is the bible the inspired word of God or isn't it. If it is, how did that happen?

Christ was very big on authority, although he thought the Pharisees were hypocrites, he encouraged his disciples to do what they said, if not what they did, for they sat in the seat of Moses.

---

I like how you throw the words "inspired word" in there yet totally fail to grasp the implications of that because of your zealotry.

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I'm obviously very stupid, please explain.

ColoradoMooseHerd said:

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This is crazy talk. So I have to abide by your religious views? Are you okay with my religion making the rules?

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THIS THIS THIS

Silian Rail said:

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javajaws said:

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Silian Rail said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Silian Rail said:

---

javajaws said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

So, here we are at the problem: they believe people lack the agency and capacity to define their own meaning and purpose and that only religion, preferably theirs, can deliver that. Without religion to tell you how to think and feel, you can't derive those things on your own, and you can function only as a self-serving automaton. They're so caught up in their own beliefs, they can't imagine how anyone could possibly think differently, hence the tone deafness and impracticality.

---

It's odd how similar the religious right is to liberals in this aspect. Liberals look towards government for guidance while the religious right looks to their religion. Neither have 100% faith in themselves.

I think in general this is a characteristic of much of humanity (not just Americans) - the need to not feel alone and to have something else to guide and help them through life.

---

Yes, because along with Christian belief comes the knowledge of human frailty and fallibility due to the sin of Adam and Eve. I believe that my Church is infallible with regard to faith and morals as that was Christ's promise; so naturally I look to them.

---

Churches are not infallible. They are led by men. Christ never promised that churches would be infallible.

In fact he warned against church leaders that teach incorrect doctorine, implying that the church and its leaders would make mistakes, some of which would be intentional.

---

You are incorrect, take the Bible for example; is the bible the inspired word of God or isn't it. If it is, how did that happen?

Christ was very big on authority, although he thought the Pharisees were hypocrites, he encouraged his disciples to do what they said, if not what they did, for they sat in the seat of Moses.

---

I like how you throw the words "inspired word" in there yet totally fail to grasp the implications of that because of your zealotry.

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I'm obviously very stupid, please explain.

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Another thing you have in common with most liberals then. And as they have proven over and over - it's a waste of time to try to get them to use logic and reason.

WaltonAg18 said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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Divorces take time too and in the state of Texas it is considered adultery until the divorce is final. I know of a few people that went through nasty divorces that lasted over 5 years.

And as stated how can the person in jail support their kids, financially or emotionally? That penalizes the kid more than the adult

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At the end of the day, this issue for OP is about ensuring more government overreach and control as long as it suits their religious beliefs.

Fascism in the name of religion is still fascism.

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THIS THIS THIS

javajaws said:

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Silian Rail said:

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javajaws said:

---

Silian Rail said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Silian Rail said:

---

javajaws said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

So, here we are at the problem: they believe people lack the agency and capacity to define their own meaning and purpose and that only religion, preferably theirs, can deliver that. Without religion to tell you how to think and feel, you can't derive those things on your own, and you can function only as a self-serving automaton. They're so caught up in their own beliefs, they can't imagine how anyone could possibly think differently, hence the tone deafness and impracticality.

---

It's odd how similar the religious right is to liberals in this aspect. Liberals look towards government for guidance while the religious right looks to their religion. Neither have 100% faith in themselves.

I think in general this is a characteristic of much of humanity (not just Americans) - the need to not feel alone and to have something else to guide and help them through life.

---

Yes, because along with Christian belief comes the knowledge of human frailty and fallibility due to the sin of Adam and Eve. I believe that my Church is infallible with regard to faith and morals as that was Christ's promise; so naturally I look to them.

---

Churches are not infallible. They are led by men. Christ never promised that churches would be infallible.

In fact he warned against church leaders that teach incorrect doctorine, implying that the church and its leaders would make mistakes, some of which would be intentional.

---

You are incorrect, take the Bible for example; is the bible the inspired word of God or isn't it. If it is, how did that happen?

Christ was very big on authority, although he thought the Pharisees were hypocrites, he encouraged his disciples to do what they said, if not what they did, for they sat in the seat of Moses.

---

I like how you throw the words "inspired word" in there yet totally fail to grasp the implications of that because of your zealotry.

---

I'm obviously very stupid, please explain.

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Another thing you have in common with most liberals then. And as they have proven over and over - it's a waste of time to try to get them to use logic and reason.

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I'm just trying to get to what you meant by your comment about grasping the implications of inspired word.

aggievaulter07 said:

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WaltonAg18 said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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Divorces take time too and in the state of Texas it is considered adultery until the divorce is final. I know of a few people that went through nasty divorces that lasted over 5 years.

And as stated how can the person in jail support their kids, financially or emotionally? That penalizes the kid more than the adult

---

At the end of the day, this issue for OP is about ensuring more government overreach and control as long as it suits their religious beliefs.

Fascism in the name of religion is still fascism.

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THIS THIS THIS

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I don't think anyone cares about the word fascism any more, it has lost it's meaning; much like the word Theocracy being used to describe the US until 2015.

BAP Enthusiast said:

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I am of the opinion that adultery should be punishable by a minimum of 1 year in prison for every violation and it should be the only valid reason for divorce. I also think that you should not be allowed to marry at all unless you get a religious marriage. This would ensure all marriages are religious in nature and eliminate those who just want to get married for tax purposes.

if you don't have a religious marriage, why do you even care about faithfulness? You just have a civil union for tax purposes so who cares what your spouse does? Your marriage isn't valid in the eyes of the lord anyway.

In a marriage this is effectively as bad emotionally as milking someone and people grieve in the same way as an actual death. This topic has even been glorified in modern media and Hollywood and our politicians do it all of the time. It's an absolutely corruptive force that has no business in a civilized society.

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EL OH EL! OP, your hero Trump would have spent many stints in jail for this... You know that...

...right???

aggievaulter07 said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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I am of the opinion that adultery should be punishable by a minimum of 1 year in prison for every violation and it should be the only valid reason for divorce. I also think that you should not be allowed to marry at all unless you get a religious marriage. This would ensure all marriages are religious in nature and eliminate those who just want to get married for tax purposes.

if you don't have a religious marriage, why do you even care about faithfulness? You just have a civil union for tax purposes so who cares what your spouse does? Your marriage isn't valid in the eyes of the lord anyway.

In a marriage this is effectively as bad emotionally as milking someone and people grieve in the same way as an actual death. This topic has even been glorified in modern media and Hollywood and our politicians do it all of the time. It's an absolutely corruptive force that has no business in a civilized society.

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EL OH EL! OP, your hero Trump would have spent many stints in jail for this... You know that...

...right???

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good gracious man, we've discussed this about 50 times. do any of you go through and read the thread before commenting?

blakegrimez said:

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And this is why we have a separation of church and state.

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THIS THIS THIS

Quote:

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They do need to backed up by a belief in a supreme being to be persuasive, otherwise there's no reason to adhere to them if it's just some 18th century politico's opinion other than "i like this" and people like all sorts of different things.

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No. I don't need to believe in God to know that murder is a horrible act. I don't need to believe in God to adhere to a 25 mph speed limit in a school zone.

93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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They do need to backed up by a belief in a supreme being to be persuasive, otherwise there's no reason to adhere to them if it's just some 18th century politico's opinion other than "i like this" and people like all sorts of different things.

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No. I don't need to believe in God to know that murder is a horrible act. I don't need to believe in God to adhere to a 25 mph speed limit in a school zone.

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Explain it; what if someone doesn't believe that murder is a horrible act. What then?

aggievaulter07 said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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I am of the opinion that adultery should be punishable by a minimum of 1 year in prison for every violation and it should be the only valid reason for divorce. I also think that you should not be allowed to marry at all unless you get a religious marriage. This would ensure all marriages are religious in nature and eliminate those who just want to get married for tax purposes.

if you don't have a religious marriage, why do you even care about faithfulness? You just have a civil union for tax purposes so who cares what your spouse does? Your marriage isn't valid in the eyes of the lord anyway.

In a marriage this is effectively as bad emotionally as milking someone and people grieve in the same way as an actual death. This topic has even been glorified in modern media and Hollywood and our politicians do it all of the time. It's an absolutely corruptive force that has no business in a civilized society.

---

EL OH EL! OP, your hero Trump would have spent many stints in jail for this... You know that...

...right???

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Why do you people keep making the same comment Over and over? I gave my response to this a while back, go read the thread if you want to see what that is.

Adverse Event said:

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Many religions encourage multiple wives, is thus accounted for, OP?

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Of course not. He wants the religious beliefs he was randomly born into to control everyone's lives.

OP, you do realize that whatever religion you subscribe to is merely a product of where and when you were born, and who you were born to, right? Like... there's no way you personally, thoroughly evaluated the 999 other religions and came away with the conclusion that THIS is the one true one.

98% Chance you practice whatever religion your parents practiced. Same for them. Same for their parents.

So, you were just randomly born into the "right" religion? And you want that one to control everyone? GTFOH.

Quote:

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Why do you people keep making the same comment Over and over? I gave my response to this a while back, go read the thread if you want to see what that is.

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Honest mistake. Didn't realize just how many pages this thread was when I replied.

aggievaulter07 said:

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Adverse Event said:

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Many religions encourage multiple wives, is thus accounted for, OP?

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Of course not. He wants the religious beliefs he was randomly born into to control everyone's lives.

OP, you do realize that whatever religion you subscribe to is merely a product of where and when you were born, and who you were born to, right? Like... there's no way you personally, thoroughly evaluated the 999 other religions and came away with the conclusion that THIS is the one true one.

98% Chance you practice whatever religion your parents practiced. Same for them. Same for their parents.

So, you were just randomly born into the "right" religion? And you want that one to control everyone? GTFOH.

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You would have a great point, if you weren't in a country that has a uniquely Christian culture since its inception. We're not trying to turn tibet Christian.

Quote:

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Explain it; what if someone doesn't believe that murder is a horrible act. What then?

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Well, they're clearly many who don't see murder as horrible. That's why we have police, courts and jails. There are sociopaths, some of them are Christians, that aren't swayed by moral arguments.

There are infinite different flavors of 'Christianity' in the US. Which flavor are we choosing?

93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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Explain it; what if someone doesn't believe that murder is a horrible act. What then?

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Well, they're clearly many who don't see murder as horrible. That's why we have police, courts and jails. There are sociopaths, some of them are Christians, that aren't swayed by moral arguments.

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So might makes right?

aggievaulter07 said:

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There are infinite different flavors of 'Christianity' in the US. Which flavor are we choosing?

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Why do we have to choose a flavor other than the one that has been present since the beginning? Your statement was why Christianity, and I answered because the country has had a uniquely Christian culture from the beginning, now you're trying to ask which Christian flavor we should choose at this point? That doesn't make sense.

You also have to at least somewhat admit that literally nobody has evaluated every single religion... so to some degree, everyone has to be hoping they were just born into the right region of the world, and the right time period to be lucky enough to be exposed to the "right" religion.

Pure insanity to just go through life assuming you know you're right when in actuality, one's 'chosen' religion is really just the only thing most religious people have ever known.

Silian Rail said:

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aggievaulter07 said:

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There are infinite different flavors of 'Christianity' in the US. Which flavor are we choosing?

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Why do we have to choose a flavor other than the one that has been present since the beginning? Your statement was why Christianity, and I answered because the country has had a uniquely Christian culture from the beginning, now you're trying to ask which Christian flavor we should choose at this point? That doesn't make sense.

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Pretty sure the reason "we" even left Europe for a scary new world was to escape being controlled by any one religion.

Quote:

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So might makes right?

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When logic and reason fail to persuade, yes.

aggievaulter07 said:

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You also have to at least somewhat admit that literally nobody has evaluated every single religion... so to some degree, everyone has to be hoping they were just born into the right region of the world, and the right time period to be lucky enough to be exposed to the "right" religion.

Pure insanity to just go through life assuming you know you're right when in actuality, one's 'chosen' religion is really just the only thing most religious people have ever known.

---

Yes, I will certainly admit that nobody has evaluated every single religion, I'm sure there are people who've never seen modern man living in some remote part of Papua New Guinea or the Amazon rainforest with a religion literally no one knows about. That has nothing to do with the culture of the United States or the impact of christianity on Western governance.

You're assuming many of us haven't gone through periods of atheism and disbelief, done our research and come up with a religion that checks all the boxes for us. If you'd like I can take you through my logical journey to Catholicism from a point of atheism.

Silian Rail said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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All of Western Civilization was founded on the back of my church. Like it or not, the values that you hold dear are heavily influenced by Roman and Greek legal and moral philosophy perfected by the Catholic Church.

---

No doubt there is heavy Christian influence in the law, the Constitution and so forth. But those laws and norms don't need to be backed up by a belief in a supreme being for them to be persuasive. I'm getting a chuckle at you piggy-backing on the Catholic church like you and the church are a successful football franchise

---

They do need to backed up by a belief in a supreme being to be persuasive, otherwise there's no reason to adhere to them if it's just some 18th century politico's opinion other than "i like this" and people like all sorts of different things.

---

They need to be backed by belief in a supreme being to be persuasive to you, but there's a whole helluva lot of people who don't need that.

The reason to adhere to them is that such laws and norms are an aggregate of societal opinions on acceptable and expected behavior, and violation of them comes with the threat of societal consequences. No one needs God to tell them killing someone is wrong and you shouldn't do it when no one wants to be killed so everyone agrees that anyone who kills someone else will be punished by everyone else.

Plenty of atheists don't break the law, and, newsflash, it's not because they believe they'll be punished by God.

93MarineHorn said:

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Quote:

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So might makes right?

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When logic and reason fail to persuade, yes.

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Okay, so if my Christofascist Theocracy kills enough people, we've done nothing wrong.