One-Third of Americans Making $250,000 Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck

5,521 Views | 66 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by baseballaficionado
Ghost Mech
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Quote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-01/a-third-of-americans-making-250-000-say-costs-eat-entire-salary?sref=ZMFHsM5Z

Some 36% of households taking in nearly four times the median US salary devote nearly all of their income to household expenses, according to a survey by industry publication Pymnts.com and LendingClub Corp.

It's particularly true among millennials, who are now in their mid-20s to early 40s: More than half of top earners in that generation report having little left at the end of the month.

The $250,000-plus income bracket roughly represents the top 5% of earners in the country, according to US Census Bureau data

Living paycheck-to-paycheck doesn't necessarily mean hardship, and LendingClub makes the distinction between those can pay their bills easily and those who can't. Only a fraction of high earners -- roughly one in ten -- reported issues covering all their household expenses in April, according to the survey.

Housing expenses, which typically take up large chunks of the budgets of wealthier people, have skyrocketed during the pandemic. For example in Orange County, California, a top-tier home cost $1.7 million in April, up from $1.2 million in February 2020, based on Zillow Group Inc. data. A mortgage on that house, assuming a 20% down payment, would cost about $100,000 per year. That's 40% of a $250,000 annual pre-tax income.

Among all consumers surveyed, 61.3% reported living paycheck-to-paycheck in April, a 9 percentage-point increase from a year earlier, LendingClub said in its report.


We don't have an earning problem, we have a spending problem...... Learn to live within your means folks, life is much easier and less stressful that way. It's really not all that hard to do.

Hint: stop worrying about what others think of you.
LMCane
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for some of the upper earners that is the problem

on the other hand, many of those folks are living in California and New York/Manhattan.

so no choice but to spend 8 bucks on fuel, and a million dollars on housing.

250K in those areas is not rich, it's barely middle class. same with parts of Washington DC where I am.
BQ_90
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AG
Quote:

We don't have an earning problem, we have a spending problem.
And the federal govt is the worst offender. So people see that and say why can't I do the same thing
SPI-FlatsCatter 84
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I know several that fall into that category and moreso than the opposite. Shocking lack of control

Finance boats, RV's, vacations. Horses. $100,000 trailers for kids rodeos. I could fill up a bus with them. Mostly early 30s to late 40s. Zero savings except a house with a 30 yr mortgage that's half paid off not counting the $80,000 2nd for the pool with a waterfall
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Nothing is getting fixed in D.C. until we get term limits for both the House and the Senate
jopatura
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AG
If it's two people making $250,000 combined, I can easily see mortgage + daycare in a HCOL taking the majority of that. Add in cost of healthcare, 401k, and then your everyday costs, I see it. Putting kids in activities isn't cheap either. I spend $400/mo just on gymnastics and swim lessons for two kids.
Picard
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I regularly volunteer at the local food pantries and also help with an Angel Tree project each December. Both give me the opportunity to help load goods into the vehicles of people in need.

Sure I see some old and busted vehicles. But more often than you think I see well-dressed people driving current model BMWs, Escalades, etc. Last Christmas I even saw a brand new hybrid Lexus SUV with paper plates still on it. These people all recently lost their jobs and apparently had no savings and couldn't afford to unload the vehicle they were upside down on and couldn't afford in the first place.

So there they are.
Phatbob
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Stop making stupid choices.

^ This is exactly the same argument for people who can't make ends meet but are poor. The only difference is you don't get called an a-hole for saying about people making good money, even though the problem is EXACTLY the same.

There are people who make good decisions that don't make good money and they end up doing just fine, because they do well with what they have. It has NOTHING TO DO with being poor or rich, it's a mindset and being responsible.

Make better decisions and you stop being poor. These people are 1 month away from being poor.
cecil77
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[oldmanadvicewarning] In my experience everyone as an amount of money that is inconsequential and just "doesn't matter". For some it's twenty bucks, for others its two thousand. There is a number that's correct for every budget. The problem is the majority of people set that amount too high.[/oldmanadvicewarning]
Showertime at the Bidens
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I know plenty that live in Texas. White suburban women are easy targeting for marketing execs. Make them feel guilty about not buying your kid the latest whatever. These women live in a constant state of fear and guilt.



Moe Jzyslak
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Another big issue is the buy now, pay over time economy. It's become really big with luxury goods offering options like Affirm, Afterpay, and Klarna. It's making items like $1,500 purses appear more affordable, when in reality the people that this is targeted towards shouldn't be buying them anyway. They're still spending $1,500, it's just spread out over 6 weeks
Owlagdad
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Somehow, I dont feel sorry for them.
Old McDonald
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people live beyond their means and then complain they'll never be able to retire. baffling how little financial literacy we have in this country, even among "successful" people.
Ghost Mech
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330,000,000 US Citizens (making over $250K) x 0.36 = 118,800,000 living paycheck to paycheck (likely most along the east and west coasts)

330,000,000 US Citizens x 0.613 (all consumers) = 202,290,000 living paycheck to paycheck


There are a bunch of people lurking on this thread that fall into these categories. Inflation is going to kick a lot of ass over the next year or so.

Thank your loving Federal Reserve for all the printed cash......
TxTarpon
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Quote:

We don't have an earning problem, we have a spending problem...... Learn to live within your means folks, life is much easier and less stressful that way. It's really not all that hard to do.

Hint: stop worrying about what others think of you.
$250k is great money in most of Texas.
Not great money in other places in the nation.

For many, this system is a great place to start.



I have know guys making under six figures their entire careers retire comfortably with $1m+ in the bank and I have known guys making 350k+ a year always one payment away from the repo man. One thing about a broke salesman, they are motivated.
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We will never give up our guns Steve, we don't care if there is a mass shooting every day of the week.
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Cromagnum
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MuchosPollos said:

We don't have an earning problem, we have a spending problem....


Our entire country in a nutshell.
ChemEng94
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Living within your means seems like common sense, but I think it is rare.

I realize that in some areas of the country $250K isn't a lot of money, but I also see a lot of people making that same salary in Texas who are in debt up to their eyeballs. They also happen to live in $600K+ houses, drive $80K+ luxury cars, and go on $20K trips every year.

I hope that rising interest rates will slow down the insanity of housing prices. I don't think that the appreciation rates are sustainable anyway. At some point, you price out too much of the market.

DallasAg 94
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DallasAg 94
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cecil77
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MuchosPollos said:

330,000,000 US Citizens (making over $250K) x 0.36 = 118,800,000 living paycheck to paycheck (likely most along the east and west coasts)

330,000,000 US Citizens x 0.613 (all consumers) = 202,290,000 living paycheck to paycheck


There are a bunch of people lurking on this thread that fall into these categories. Inflation is going to kick a lot of ass over the next year or so.

Thank your loving Federal Reserve for all the printed cash......

OP shows .05 making over $250K, so that's 16,500.

And 330M is the entire population, not wage earners, so the number is much lower than that.
cecil77
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AG
Ramsey's advice is fine as far as it goes, but it's nothing more than your grandmother told you. He also undervalues the use of debt.

My biggest issue with him is I absolutely despise the way he markets through churches. Kinda like, "let us market to your members and we'll urge them to kick some back to you."
Ghost Mech
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I wasn't a math major........ Thank you for checking my math
Old McDonald
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ChemEng94 said:

I realize that in some areas of the country $250K isn't a lot of money
250k is several times the median household income even in places like LA, Bay Area, NYC. the idea that it "isn't a lot a money" anywhere is absurd imo.
TxTarpon
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Quote:

He also undervalues the use of debt.
Yeah, because most people do not use it correctly. Lack of discipline.
He totally missed the tax free govt money with PPP.
Quote:

My biggest issue with him is I absolutely despise the way he markets through churches. Kinda like, "let us market to your members and we'll urge them to kick some back to you."
He has that niche down for white evangelicals.
----------------------------------
Texans make the best songwriters because they are the best liars.-Rodney Crowell

We will never give up our guns Steve, we don't care if there is a mass shooting every day of the week.
-BarronVonAwesome

A man with experience is not at the mercy of another man with an opinion.
TacosaurusRex
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cecil77 said:

Ramsey's advice is fine as far as it goes, but it's nothing more than your grandmother told you. He also undervalues the use of debt.

My biggest issue with him is I absolutely despise the way he markets through churches. Kinda like, "let us market to your members and we'll urge them to kick some back to you."

I agree. His advice is great for people just getting started in life, but his absolute stance on debt I do not buy.

I will never forget a lunch with coworkers about two years ago. We're all middle managers that make the same income, plus or minus a couple of thousand. When I mentioned I save/invest a paycheck a month, they looked at me like I had a third eyeball. That's when it really hit me that people do not have the most basic understanding of a budget or the ability to forecast.
Get Off My Lawn
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MuchosPollos said:

I wasn't a math major........ Thank you for checking my math
It's also "household income" so a guy pulling $160k and wife pulling $90k paying a combined $63k in taxes and $30k for daycare/private school is now sitting on $157k take-home. That second income just evaporated. Mortgage (in a high earner region), vehicles, utilities, babysitting, debt, investments, etc - I could see how it COULD disappear quickly.
Showertime at the Bidens
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cecil77 said:

Ramsey's advice is fine as far as it goes, but it's nothing more than your grandmother told you. He also undervalues the use of debt.

My biggest issue with him is I absolutely despise the way he markets through churches. Kinda like, "let us market to your members and we'll urge them to kick some back to you."



Dave Ramsey literally says it's the advice your grandmother used to give to you. lol. But it's a lot more than that. It's emotional advice and support, not just Financial. His whole concept is that people get in debt because of emotional issues, not Financial. Everyone knows you're not supposed to spend more than you make but they do it anyway. Like he says, it's not a math problem.

And I think marketing through churches is a brilliant idea. His message is biblically-based and he's a devout Christian so it just makes sense. He's also said that if the church congregation is out of debt they can be more giving and will have a better spiritual life as well. Can't argue with that.
Showertime at the Bidens
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He gets an awful lot of calls from people later in life that are flat broke up a creek without a paddle, so no I don't think it's just good for people starting out.
beerad12man
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jopatura said:

If it's two people making $250,000 combined, I can easily see mortgage + daycare in a HCOL taking the majority of that. Add in cost of healthcare, 401k, and then your everyday costs, I see it. Putting kids in activities isn't cheap either. I spend $400/mo just on gymnastics and swim lessons for two kids.


Meh. This is absolving too much blame. We have a spending problem and most Americans have no clue what what sacrifice and true hardship mean. The vast majority of these people can save money if they tried.
techno-ag
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DallasAg 94 said:

Picard said:

I regularly volunteer at the local food pantries and also help with an Angel Tree project each December. Both give me the opportunity to help load goods into the vehicles of people in need.

Sure I see some old and busted vehicles. But more often than you think I see well-dressed people driving current model BMWs, Escalades, etc. Last Christmas I even saw a brand new hybrid Lexus SUV with paper plates still on it. These people all recently lost their jobs and apparently had no savings and couldn't afford to unload the vehicle they were upside down on and couldn't afford in the first place.

So there they are.

Last food distro for needy families I did with my kids, we were loading free turkey, bag of non-perishables, and a giftcard for $100 (to buy perishables) for Thanksgiving dinners.

Waited while the momma used her new iPhone to call the pappa and then carried that stuff out to $60-70K cars.

My kdis got a real good look at poverty in America.
That's the thing about food banks. They allow people to make poor decisions. If they can get free food they will put that money toward other things.
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ChemEng94
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My point is that in places like LA and NYC where taxes and rents/mortgages are so much higher, $250K isn't some exorbitant income.

My housing cost as a percentage of my salary is around 10%. I suspect for most Texans that number is in the 20 - 30% range. In LA and NY, that number probably jumps up to 40 - 50%. Then you get to pay all those additional income taxes.

I went online and found a cost of living index. If you wanted to live like someone making $250K in Houston, you would need to make:

$633K in NYC
$521K in San Fran
$385K in LA

So, $250K in Texas is a pretty handsome sum. In NYC, not so much. I realize that your point is that $250K is good money regardless, but without taking location into context it can be a bit misleading.

one MEEN Ag
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cecil77 said:

Ramsey's advice is fine as far as it goes, but it's nothing more than your grandmother told you. He also undervalues the use of debt.

My biggest issue with him is I absolutely despise the way he markets through churches. Kinda like, "let us market to your members and we'll urge them to kick some back to you."

I don't think its an issue, per se, I'm sure from the pastor or priests perspective they had a bunch of people come into their office complaining of money causing marital issues. But I guess you could just recommend the book instead of host a seminar.

I agree with you that there is an opportunity of a cunning leader to encourage this type of seminar so they'll be on the receiving end of tithes.

I think there are wide swathes of churches that don't do a good enough job living out that we aren't supposed to be wrapped up in the material world, and that leads to these types of problems.

zgolfz85
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AG
I'm really hoping part of the reason here is because they're fully funding their 401s and IRAs and life insurance etc
cupcakesprinkles
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TxTarpon said:


Quote:

We don't have an earning problem, we have a spending problem...... Learn to live within your means folks, life is much easier and less stressful that way. It's really not all that hard to do.

Hint: stop worrying about what others think of you.
$250k is great money in most of Texas.
Not great money in other places in the nation.

For many, this system is a great place to start.



I have know guys making under six figures their entire careers retire comfortably with $1m+ in the bank and I have known guys making 350k+ a year always one payment away from the repo man. One thing about a broke salesman, they are motivated.


That's the exact book I read two years after I graduated. Thanks to Dave Ramsey's advice I was able to pay off my student loans and my car note.

Since then (almost 20 years ago) the only debt I have ever had is my house note. I couldn't imagine the stress men are under to provide for their families while they have crippling credit card debt, car notes, and a second mortgage for their pool.
UTExan
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LMCane said:

for some of the upper earners that is the problem

on the other hand, many of those folks are living in California and New York/Manhattan.

so no choice but to spend 8 bucks on fuel, and a million dollars on housing.

250K in those areas is not rich, it's barely middle class. same with parts of Washington DC where I am.


Just visited family in Northern Virginia/DC suburb. Their neighborhood has appreciated in value so much that what was a middle class family enclave is now full of Asian wealthy and older people "of means".
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
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TacosaurusRex
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Zarathustra said:


He gets an awful lot of calls from people later in life that are flat broke up a creek without a paddle, so no I don't think it's just good for people starting out.
You're right. I should have said an inexperienced or novice person when it comes to finances. I assumed older adults wouldn't be in that boat and that was wrong.
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