Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

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Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

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My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

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Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

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Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

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My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

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Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

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What about when they see an active shooter? Is it normal to leave the door propped open?

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

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Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

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My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

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Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

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They should be fired for doing so in the future.

BigRobSA said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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MSCAg said:

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GAC06 said:

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What kind of credit limit would an 18 yr old have

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When I was 18, over 20 years ago, I had a $5000 one.

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So these CC companies hand out cards without regard for credit worthiness or income?

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Mid90s at UTSA, everyday under the Sombrilla (outdoor seating for the main building food court), there were CC company reps signing kids up for debt. They had swag to give.

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Ummm... try Kyle Field on game day. Texas A&M branded MBNA Cards. Aggies aren't immune to being suckered into debt.

ALL IN 2013 said:

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ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

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Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

---

My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

---

Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

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What about when they see an active shooter? Is it normal to leave the door propped open?

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No one has answered that. The lady who used the propped open door told police he had a gun on her cell phone call. Yet she leaves the door propped open?

I would have shut that door, run to the front entrance and locked that door. Then gone room by room shutting doors.

Who is that lady?

People and panic don't make any sense at all.

Marcus Brutus said:

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ALL IN 2013 said:

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ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

---

Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

---

My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

---

Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

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What about when they see an active shooter? Is it normal to leave the door propped open?

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No one has answered that. The lady who used the propped open door told police he had a gun on her cell phone call. Yet she leaves the door propped open?

I would have shut that door, run to the front entrance and locked that door. Then gone room by room shutting doors.

Who is that lady?

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Do you not know anyone that panics in high stress situations? That doesn't think clearly when they are scared?

It will haunt that teacher forever but it really isn't hard to imagine that occurring.

Stive said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

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Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

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My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

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She's not saying it's ok. She's simply stating what happens all the time: people get lax when they're going through the motions. The odds of a school shooting happening at any specific campus are insanely tiny. Hundreds if not thousands of teachers across the country propped a door open on that day, during that time, and nothing negative happened to them or their students.

But just because this teacher did, and this bad thing happened, doesn't mean that the teacher was in on it like clickclack is insinuating.

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Agree. This is no conspiracy to me. It is a sick individual that went off at the wrong time in an unfortunate series of events. But we can't overlook procedures that weren't followed because it was the end of the school year.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

---

Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

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My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

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Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

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Yes, easy to imagine, but in a different scenario where you are under lock out/tag out conditions or confined space entry, protocols that are violated result in potential harm. Just because it "basically happens all the time everywhere" does not relieve responsibility. Is it a fact that the door is supposed to be engaged but was propped open at this time? If so, that is part of the evaluation and impact of this event.

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

---

Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

---

My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

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Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

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Yes, easy to imagine, but in a different scenario where you are under lock out/tag out conditions or confined space entry, protocols that are violated result in potential harm. Just because it "basically happens all the time everywhere" does not relieve responsibility. Is it a fact that the door is supposed to be engaged but was propped open at this time? If so, that is part of the evaluation and impact of this event.

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Sure, all I'm saying is that explanation easily passes the smell test, contrary to what some here seem to be suggesting. People cutting corners or otherwise deviating from protocol is part of the story of many major disasters. Most, probably.

I was under the impression the door was left open by one of the deceased teachers. Hence law enforcement not having answers to questions surrounding the circumstances because there's no one to ask. Could certainly be wrong, but that was the impression I got from that detail being sidestepped and avoided.

It could very well be a surviving staff member who is already going to have to live with the thought that their actions, I hate to even say it, was one of the dominos that directly led to the horror that ultimately transpired. Putting an individual who's already distraught beyond all imagination through any public scrutiny would be harsh given the utter incompetence and cowardice put on display by the people who failed spectacularly in their own right.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

---

Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

---

My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

---

Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

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Yes, easy to imagine, but in a different scenario where you are under lock out/tag out conditions or confined space entry, protocols that are violated result in potential harm. Just because it "basically happens all the time everywhere" does not relieve responsibility. Is it a fact that the door is supposed to be engaged but was propped open at this time? If so, that is part of the evaluation and impact of this event.

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Sure, all I'm saying is that explanation easily passes the smell test, contrary to what some here seem to be suggesting. People cutting corners or otherwise deviating from protocol is part of the story of many major disasters. Most, probably.

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Yeah, to say this was some sort of grand conspiracy is a huge leap in kabuki theatre. Very, very unfortunate series of events.

Marcus Brutus said:

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MSCAg said:

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GAC06 said:

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What kind of credit limit would an 18 yr old have

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When I was 18, over 20 years ago, I had a $5000 one.

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So these CC companies hand out cards without regard for credit worthiness or income?

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Where have you been? My dog gets credit card offers

Clob94 said:

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Pawn off some of Abuela's jewelry and steal some drugs from momma that you sell to some folks and money comes faster.

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I think someone just hit on where the majority of it came from, if indeed it came from only himself (and I think outside connections are a stretch, to say the least).

Marcus Brutus said:

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ALL IN 2013 said:

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ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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ClickClackAg31 said:

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Count me in as one of the people who find it highly coincidental the teacher went to her car and left the door propped open literally a minute before the crash. And then left the door propped even after shots started going off. The odds of that timing are incredible small.

---

Well

You have never worked in a school

Too bad you were too lazy to get a job

---

My assumption is that the door has to be locked from outside at all times or self locking. Maybe I'm wrong. But even ONE instance of a person in charge not following the protocol is a serious breach of the rules. What makes it ok to have it propped open because it was the last day or field day or awards day?

---

Nobody is saying it's "ok," they're saying it's easy to imagine someone deviating from best safety practices for the sake of convenience, especially when they perceive no threat. It happens basically all the time everywhere.

---

What about when they see an active shooter? Is it normal to leave the door propped open?

---

No one has answered that. The lady who used the propped open door told police he had a gun on her cell phone call. Yet she leaves the door propped open?

I would have shut that door, run to the front entrance and locked that door. Then gone room by room shutting doors.

Who is that lady?

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We don't know the full story.

There are some possible explanations. Anyone can correct me if some of these are false or have been disproven:

-- she kicked the item that propped the door completely out of the way but the door still didn't lock back; we've all seen locking doors that for whatever reason did not lock or did not close with enough force to lock back

-- she kicked or moved the propping device out of the way but it still propped the door open; in other words, it was no longer propping the door open the way she set it up but in another way she didn't realize, and she was running back inside

-- she thought someone else was outside who needed to get into the building OR thought someone else would be coming to the door after she entered to make sure it was locked

-- as hinted to above, she was in full panic mode and completely fogged out the idea that the door was propped open

-- although there hasn't been any evidence shown for this, someone else, now deceased, could have opened the door and it failed to close back fully locked; there was a period of time where gunshots were fired before he entered the school, giving this person time to come to the door to investigate; this is unlikely but possible

I think the last one is pie in the sky and I only mention it to make a point: these doors aren't perfect. I've seen them not lock, and I use these types of doors all the time as I am at a lot of schools regularly.

While I wouldn't call the door a red herring, it was simply the worst piece of luck for those particular kids and teachers that died. There's a good chance that another classroom of kids and adults would have suffered the same fate -- maybe more, maybe fewer -- had THAT door being locked. He would have gotten in somewhere else. One the other hand, there's also a fair chance that law enforcement may have arrived prior to him entering and had a shootout with him, with minimal injuries and only his death.

All these things are just something we'll likely never know. Unless we know for sure what happened with the door, I don't know that we can learn much from it other than to implore people to make sure the door is locked.

Quote:

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Credit cards are a hell of a thing. Especially when you don't care about paying them back.

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He used a debit card.

I heard it was $4k, not $7k

so you are saying "the math doesn't add up"?

I am saying unless you ask the Oasis place how he paid, then you don't know if it was all cash, partial cash and credit, etc.