Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

If it dramatically reduced them would you be willing to keep them?

cmag said:

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If it dramatically reduced them would you be willing to keep them?

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Sure. You?

I will vehemently oppose any gun control legislation. No exceptions.

toolazy said:

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cmag said:

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If it dramatically reduced them would you be willing to keep them?

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Sure. You?

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I don't think it would, so sure. At least I don't think it would reduce the number of attempts. Probably would reduce the number of victims.

At the very least, we probably need to make sure the immediate 'good guys'(security at clubs, school resource/police officers, and concealed carry citizens), that can engage the murderer before much harm is done, aren't drastically outgunned.

Too many instances where the immediate security wouldn't engage or was ineffective as they only had a pistol. Buffalo shooter was shot with pistol rounds by a ex-police guy, but had body armor on and eventually shot him dead.

Whether it's prohibiting or adopting a more thorough bar for NEW semi-automatic rifles purchases, or storing an AR-15 and plate carriers in every classroom for a teacher to potentially use, or concealed carry citizens carrying rifles around(all of which I'm perfectly fine with if it helps), I don't know.

cmag said:

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toolazy said:

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cmag said:

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If it dramatically reduced them would you be willing to keep them?

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Sure. You?

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I don't think it would, so sure. At least I don't think it would reduce the number of attempts. Probably would reduce the number of victims.

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I don't think it would either. Gun availability is such a small part of the equation. The caveat is the definition, reporting, etc must remain the same throughout.

How would it reduce the number of victims? Anyone with a pump shotgun and a belt with 50 shells could kill dozens of elementary school teachers and kids if that's what they are hell-bent on doing.

cmag said:

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toolazy said:

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cmag said:

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If it dramatically reduced them would you be willing to keep them?

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Sure. You?

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I don't think it would, so sure. At least I don't think it would reduce the number of attempts. Probably would reduce the number of victims.

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Pretty safe to assume reducing the amount of victims would be a very strong incentive……..

None of it is about reducing shootings or deaths.

It is about control, and taking away the ability of people to defend themselves.

Because once people have given that right, the government is free to do anything it wants, including killing its own people.

Rapier108 said:

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None of it is about reducing shootings or deaths.

It is about control, and taking away the ability of people to defend themselves.

Because once people have given that right, the government is free to do anything it wants, including killing its own people.

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Anybody that doesn't believe this needs to go back and relearn world history.

bam02 said:

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How would it reduce the number of victims? Anyone with a pump shotgun and a belt with 50 shells could kill dozens of elementary school teachers and kids if that's what they are hell-bent on doing.

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I don't support banning specific types of guns because that will just lead to the next iteration when people still die until there are no guns. That said, let's not pretend like an AR-15 style weapon isn't substantially more efficient than a pump shotgun. Given enough time and lack of resistance, sure a six shooter will kill everyone in a room.

toolazy said:

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Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

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They refuse to answer reasonable hypothetical scenarios.

Refuse.

I tried with a 100% compliance on psych testing at some frequency combined with verifiable training regimen in return for full repeal of all previous gun laws.

What was the response?

Hmm not sure. What happens if someone steals your
Machine gun?

Lmao.

It's just a stupid game to them.

400 million guns in America. Any idiot should realize that gun bans will result in only bad guys having guns

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

It took the doofus deputies over an hour to engage a numbnuts ****** & people think this is an example of why citizens shouldn't have guns????

For ****s sake this is an example of why everyone should be armed at all times

****ing clown world

toolazy said:

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Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

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If anyone trusts the government to give rights back after they have taken them because it would be the intellectually honest thing to do they need their head examined. Did "2 Weeks to Slow the Spread" teach you nothing?

The only person you can rely on to protect you is you. Period. How anyone can look at how 19 cops stood outside and didn't engage because they were scared and think, "Well, if only I disarm myself and make sure teachers can't protect themselves it will solve the problem because a freaking psycho will have a little harder time getting a gun!" is mind numbing.

aggie93 said:

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toolazy said:

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Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

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If anyone trusts the government to give rights back after they have taken them because it would be the intellectually honest thing to do they need their head examined. Did "2 Weeks to Slow the Spread" teach you nothing?

The only person you can rely on to protect you is you. Period. How anyone can look at how 19 cops stood outside and didn't engage because they were scared and think, "Well, if only I disarm myself and make sure teachers can't protect themselves it will solve the problem because a freaking psycho will have a little harder time getting a gun!" is mind numbing.

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That's why it's hypothetical. In real life I also wouldn't trust the government to not fudge the number.

If you ban any gun type( such as AR-15s) the manufacturers will still sell them, but in Mexico and South America and they'll end up being smuggled into the US as the next cocaine cartels smuggle in…getting them to bad guys.

If you ban an AR rifle, the next bad guy is just going to walk in a school with a Glock and 5 clips with 21 bullets in each clip and cause the same amount of death in an elementary school. Nothing will be impacted.

There's got to be better answers because bans will do nothing.

My Name Is Judge said:

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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

It took the doofus deputies over an hour to engage a numbnuts ****** & people think this is an example of why citizens shouldn't have guns????

For ****s sake this is an example of why everyone should be armed at all times

****ing clown world

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Seriously. These massive killings have primarily taken place in gun free zones. Sitting ducks. There are 400 million guns in the US. They are not going "poof" when a confiscation law is passed. The killers will always be able to get one.

toolazy said:

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Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

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I am not in favor of gun control. I am extremely pro 2A. But, this straw man doesn't work because the data in the highly regulated countries tells you it will drop dramatically. The issue is given up a freedom. Hell Singapore has an extremely low crime rate. You can also get caned for spitting on the sidewalk. This straw man plays directly into their hands

Realistically eff no.
Shall not be infringed. WTh is so hard to understand

I don't support bans but I do support licensing and registration.

Licensing and registration. No.

You know who else likes lists?

Op. You do know there was an weapons ban from 94 to 04 right? We already tried this.

Agree registration is a big reach. Licensing is "common sense" reform though.

Will it solve or even help with school shootings? Probably not but maybe. However accidental deaths would definitely drop if you had to prove that you know how to properly handle firearms before being allowed to own one. But yeah I know, NRA will never give an inch.

Last time you purchased a weapon? What is licensing? What does that mean?

Ltc?

Current nics?

SMM48 said:

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Op. You do know there was an weapons ban from 94 to 04 right? We already tried this.

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That's kinda the point. I don't think it would make a big difference. The trade off after 10 years is fully automatic machine guns and silencers and 1000 round mags at the gun store with no background checks.

roman.tadpole said:

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toolazy said:

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Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

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I am not in favor of gun control. I am extremely pro 2A. But, this straw man doesn't work because the data in the highly regulated countries tells you it will drop dramatically. The issue is given up a freedom. Hell Singapore has an extremely low crime rate. You can also get caned for spitting on the sidewalk. This straw man plays directly into their hands

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This. It's a flawed argument to rationalize that just because B naturally follows A, that A is justified. We could convict more criminals if we did away with the 4th amendment, but that's not justification for doing away with a ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. The ends do not always justify the means.

I get it sorry.

Answer still no.

Don't give and inch.

cmag said:

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If it dramatically reduced them would you be willing to keep them?

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Yes, but as demonstrated by our neighbors they won't.

toolazy said:

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Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

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No. We have to ban the bad guns. Too many good people are shot with bad guns.

Too many guns are designed to kill. We have the technology. There should be a stun setting for most people. Only the police should be allowed to set their gun on kill mode.

But hunting is ok if not endangered species.

Starting with a bad hypothetical setup is going to yield a predictable answer.

toolazy said:

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Hypothetical would you make this deal:

If you are able to enact all the policies short of outright bans such as expanded background checks, red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, waiting periods, etc and ten years down the road the number if mass shootings don't drop drastically then ALL restrictions on all guns are dropped?

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This will never happen. name me one time where infringement on our right to bear arms has been stepped back.

They (the people who make the rules) don't want you to have guns. They don't want you to have guns because you may kill them for the decisions they make. Look how scared they were on 1/6. That is why they want our guns.

They did include an expiration date on the AWB '94…

bam02 said:

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How would it reduce the number of victims? Anyone with a pump shotgun and a belt with 50 shells could kill dozens of elementary school teachers and kids if that's what they are hell-bent on doing.

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Especially when the cops stand around for an hour letting it happen. That kid could have killed just as many people with a baseball bat or a 2x4 based on the reaction of the cops.