You can't buy smokes til you are 21 now? I missed that. When did that happen?

Maroon Dawn said:

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I would only support this if we agreed that 21 is the new official age of adulthood and if you are not 21 then you also cannot

-vote
-take out a student loan
-be drafted

If we were actually consistent across the board that 21 is the age of adulthood I'd be okay with it

Not this hodge lodge of "you're mature enough for this but not that"

---

I think that is absolutely what we should do. 18 year olds have far too much power to destroy their lives and the lives of others and they are more immature than ever.

I am not a fan of modern 18 year olds having the ability to ruin their lives with $200,000 of student loans, offset the votes of wiser and older individuals, and purchase deadly weapons without restriction. 18 year olds are dumb. You are asking them to make adult decisions when they are not mentally equipped to make them.

Maybe one day society will change and that age range with mature again. But in 2022, the age of an adult should at least be 21 across the board.

_mpaul said:

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BigRobSA said:

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ChemEAg08 said:

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Yes

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This

"Shall not be infringed." Pretty clear

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This is a policy discussion, not a legality discussion. If the people think it's good policy but the Constitution prohibits it, we can always amend the Constitution.

So I guess "should" versus "can" are two different questions in my mind.

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Only if you can tell me why it was written into the constitution? And why it was written is why any discussion on magazine size is emotional ignorance.

Tumble Weed said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Mags are not mechanically complicated. If an individual with bad intent wants high-capacity magazines, that individual will get them. Or make them.

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Like fertilizer bombs. I understand that we can produce what we cannot buy.

I also believe in making it harder to obtain.

---

Also sounds like you're all for making us a less free state and subjugated to the whims of a tyrannical government. Hmm, I wonder what our founding fathers could have put in the constitution to protect us from that, maybe something like "shall not infringe".

I'm sick of the AR15 argument. It's just a semi automatic rifle. A guy with 2 semi automatic pistols could do a mass shooting just as easy. Heck I was pretty fast with a lever action 30/30 years ago.

Should an 18 year old be allowed to buy a fire arm? I will probably get roasted for this but I think anyone under 21 should have a a steeper vetting process to buy a fire arm. Strictly from a developmental perspective of the male human brain. But Ive felt this way long before all these shootings. But on the flip side I fear the slow drip of rights being taken away by the left. I fear (know) they wouldn't stop there.

How many 18 year olds that own an AR-15 didn't murder anyone?

There needs to be some kind of extra restriction on who can own an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine and it probably ought to start with an age restriction.

I know in Texas in the late 1800s it was illegal for cowboys to carry a tool to cut fence because there was so much fence cutting going on.

I know the argument... fence cutting tools don't cut fence... people do. That may be true but the tool is still involved and historically was regulated. So too high capacity assault rifles.

robbio said:

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There needs to be some kind of extra restriction on who can own an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine and it probably ought to start with an age restriction.

I know in Texas in the late 1800s it was illegal for cowboys to carry a tool to cut fence because there was so much fence cutting going on.

I know the argument... fence cutting tools don't cut fence... people do. That may be true but the tool is still involved and historically was regulated. So too high capacity assault rifles.

---

What is an assault rifle?

There needs to be a restriction on people that take away the rights of others.

I honestly don't think the 18 to buy debate is a good hill to die on. Fine, make any rifle or shotgun 21 to purchase, but keep at 18 to possess. If you are minor who is gonna shoot hogs or ducks you probably have a firearm you can borrow or possess indefinitely.

The real concern is ability to defend yourself in public, which usually applies to pistols anyway. With regards to gov tyranny, no one will be purchasing guns legally if we are shooting at US troops in our streets. If/when we get to that point, patriots will be freely handing Mexican smuggled AR-15s over to 15 year olds. As long as 21 year olds can freely own AR-15s there will be no real gov tyranny.

From a friend of mine...

(1) Call it what you want.....any firearm that is either semi- or automatic with multiple magazines is capable of discharging, reloading and discharging again, enough rounds to do great damage. You already know that. (2) The 18 year olds in the military are given extensive training on the care and use and safety of the firearms, and even then do not have continuous and unfettered access to the firearm and ammunition. Just because a person has had 18 birthdays does not mean he has any qualification whatsoever to be using a firearm (or purchase alcohol....). And, yes, I was using firearms at that age but had several years of careful supervision, including being taught to be keenly aware of the sanctity of life, and to own the bullet that is discharged. (3) And, yes, I have a safe full of guns and would not want my 2nd amendment right to be infringed upon. I have no problem for a waiting period between purchase and delivery of a weapon. I have no problem with expanded background checks, including private sales. I have no problem with a period between multiple purchases (I can acquire a safe full of guns in a year's time.) 'Red flag' laws sound good in the current distress but care should be taken that individuals cannot abuse and weaponize that scenario against whomever they choose. (4) We should harden the school targets with personnel and technology. If we can find $40 Billion for Ukraine in a few days, we can find the money to equip our schools. I support the concept of Heroes to Halls----using retired military and police to guard our children. (5) We should overhaul the ATF and enforce the laws already on the books. There are bad actor gun dealers that routinely scoff at the ATF and sell to whomever has the cash."

Yes. EOT. People always forget, the bill of rights doesn't exist so the government can GRANT you rights. It exists to secure rights from the government. Your right to bear arms is a natural right bestowed upon you by your creator. The government has no right to take it or limit it from you. Prior ****ty legislation doesn't justify more ****ty legislation.

This guy was a "nut case". Classmate said he bullied people & he was the bully. Plus he mistreated dumb animals.
People like that need investigation of their psychological stability.
It is everyone's responsibility. "See something, hear something, tell someone (police if necessary).

robbio said:

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From a friend of mine...

(1) Call it what you want.....any firearm that is either semi- or automatic with multiple magazines is capable of discharging, reloading and discharging again, enough rounds to do great damage. You already know that. (2) The 18 year olds in the military are given extensive training on the care and use and safety of the firearms, and even then do not have continuous and unfettered access to the firearm and ammunition. Just because a person has had 18 birthdays does not mean he has any qualification whatsoever to be using a firearm (or purchase alcohol....). And, yes, I was using firearms at that age but had several years of careful supervision, including being taught to be keenly aware of the sanctity of life, and to own the bullet that is discharged. (3) And, yes, I have a safe full of guns and would not want my 2nd amendment right to be infringed upon. I have no problem for a waiting period between purchase and delivery of a weapon. I have no problem with expanded background checks, including private sales. I have no problem with a period between multiple purchases (I can acquire a safe full of guns in a year's time.) 'Red flag' laws sound good in the current distress but care should be taken that individuals cannot abuse and weaponize that scenario against whomever they choose. (4) We should harden the school targets with personnel and technology. If we can find $40 Billion for Ukraine in a few days, we can find the money to equip our schools. I support the concept of Heroes to Halls----using retired military and police to guard our children. (5) We should overhaul the ATF and enforce the laws already on the books. There are bad actor gun dealers that routinely scoff at the ATF and sell to whomever has the cash."

---

This is a very reasonable post. There is nothing in what you wrote that could be considered anti-2A. There is room for improvements that do not deny a person's rights. I'm concerned when I read the hard core attitudes of some people on this forum.

TheCurl84 said:

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robbio said:

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From a friend of mine...

(1) Call it what you want.....any firearm that is either semi- or automatic with multiple magazines is capable of discharging, reloading and discharging again, enough rounds to do great damage. You already know that. (2) The 18 year olds in the military are given extensive training on the care and use and safety of the firearms, and even then do not have continuous and unfettered access to the firearm and ammunition. Just because a person has had 18 birthdays does not mean he has any qualification whatsoever to be using a firearm (or purchase alcohol....). And, yes, I was using firearms at that age but had several years of careful supervision, including being taught to be keenly aware of the sanctity of life, and to own the bullet that is discharged. (3) And, yes, I have a safe full of guns and would not want my 2nd amendment right to be infringed upon. I have no problem for a waiting period between purchase and delivery of a weapon. I have no problem with expanded background checks, including private sales. I have no problem with a period between multiple purchases (I can acquire a safe full of guns in a year's time.) 'Red flag' laws sound good in the current distress but care should be taken that individuals cannot abuse and weaponize that scenario against whomever they choose. (4) We should harden the school targets with personnel and technology. If we can find $40 Billion for Ukraine in a few days, we can find the money to equip our schools. I support the concept of Heroes to Halls----using retired military and police to guard our children. (5) We should overhaul the ATF and enforce the laws already on the books. There are bad actor gun dealers that routinely scoff at the ATF and sell to whomever has the cash."

---

This is a very reasonable post. There is nothing in what you wrote that could be considered anti-2A. There is room for improvements that do not deny a person's rights. I'm concerned when I read the hard core attitudes of some people on this forum.

---

That's the thing about reasonableness…. What is reasonable to you is not to others. Shall not be infringed is clear. Also, the feds have demonstrated time and time again they will abuse power granted to them, see Lois Lerner and the IRS, FISA warrants, Patriot act, etc…. We need to look at mental illness in this country and figure out why the family unit is so broken in most of these cases.

Unpopular opinion here but a restriction to 21 makes sense. Most people have gotten over whatever bs they were worried about in high school by then.

If we can't restrict guns to an extent, then don't restrict cigarettes and beer. That's ridiculous.

TheCurl84 said:

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robbio said:

---

From a friend of mine...

(1) Call it what you want.....any firearm that is either semi- or automatic with multiple magazines is capable of discharging, reloading and discharging again, enough rounds to do great damage. You already know that. (2) The 18 year olds in the military are given extensive training on the care and use and safety of the firearms, and even then do not have continuous and unfettered access to the firearm and ammunition. Just because a person has had 18 birthdays does not mean he has any qualification whatsoever to be using a firearm (or purchase alcohol....). And, yes, I was using firearms at that age but had several years of careful supervision, including being taught to be keenly aware of the sanctity of life, and to own the bullet that is discharged. (3) And, yes, I have a safe full of guns and would not want my 2nd amendment right to be infringed upon. I have no problem for a waiting period between purchase and delivery of a weapon. I have no problem with expanded background checks, including private sales. I have no problem with a period between multiple purchases (I can acquire a safe full of guns in a year's time.) 'Red flag' laws sound good in the current distress but care should be taken that individuals cannot abuse and weaponize that scenario against whomever they choose. (4) We should harden the school targets with personnel and technology. If we can find $40 Billion for Ukraine in a few days, we can find the money to equip our schools. I support the concept of Heroes to Halls----using retired military and police to guard our children. (5) We should overhaul the ATF and enforce the laws already on the books. There are bad actor gun dealers that routinely scoff at the ATF and sell to whomever has the cash."

---

This is a very reasonable post. There is nothing in what you wrote that could be considered anti-2A. There is room for improvements that do not deny a person's rights. I'm concerned when I read the hard core attitudes of some people on this forum.

---

The "hard core attitude" exist because they recognize the slippery slope.

If new restrictions are put in place, and another mass shooting occurs, which it will, do you think the anti-gun
crowd is going to say "oh well, that's a tragedy" or do you think they're going to clamor for more restrictions?

I'd be ok with making everything like voting, drinking, smoking, guns at age 25 with the exception for military.

Or high school diploma. We need to incentivize education and that could be a start.

Maroon Dawn said:

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I would only support this if we agreed that 21 is the new official age of adulthood and if you are not 21 then you also cannot

-vote
-take out a student loan
-be drafted

If we were actually consistent across the board that 21 is the age of adulthood I'd be okay with it

Not this hodge lodge of "you're mature enough for this but not that"

---

Same. I would support it.

Dems will never agree because of loss of votes. More proof they absolutely dgas about life. It's about power.

Just think, it's harder to adopt an animal at a pound than to but a weapon.

Keegan99 said:

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TheCurl84 said:

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robbio said:

---

From a friend of mine...

(1) Call it what you want.....any firearm that is either semi- or automatic with multiple magazines is capable of discharging, reloading and discharging again, enough rounds to do great damage. You already know that. (2) The 18 year olds in the military are given extensive training on the care and use and safety of the firearms, and even then do not have continuous and unfettered access to the firearm and ammunition. Just because a person has had 18 birthdays does not mean he has any qualification whatsoever to be using a firearm (or purchase alcohol....). And, yes, I was using firearms at that age but had several years of careful supervision, including being taught to be keenly aware of the sanctity of life, and to own the bullet that is discharged. (3) And, yes, I have a safe full of guns and would not want my 2nd amendment right to be infringed upon. I have no problem for a waiting period between purchase and delivery of a weapon. I have no problem with expanded background checks, including private sales. I have no problem with a period between multiple purchases (I can acquire a safe full of guns in a year's time.) 'Red flag' laws sound good in the current distress but care should be taken that individuals cannot abuse and weaponize that scenario against whomever they choose. (4) We should harden the school targets with personnel and technology. If we can find $40 Billion for Ukraine in a few days, we can find the money to equip our schools. I support the concept of Heroes to Halls----using retired military and police to guard our children. (5) We should overhaul the ATF and enforce the laws already on the books. There are bad actor gun dealers that routinely scoff at the ATF and sell to whomever has the cash."

---

This is a very reasonable post. There is nothing in what you wrote that could be considered anti-2A. There is room for improvements that do not deny a person's rights. I'm concerned when I read the hard core attitudes of some people on this forum.

---

The "hard core attitude" exist because they recognize the slippery slope.

If new restrictions are put in place, and another mass shooting occurs, which it will, do you think the anti-gun
crowd is going to say "oh well, that's a tragedy" or do you think they're going to clamor for more restrictions?

---

Yes I can see that. And for sure the rhetoric on both ends drives out reasonable dialogue. Folks are programmed to detect the faintest indicator that the other person is on the opposite end, and then assign to them every undesirable attribute of that end.

All that aside I'm only interested in practical measures that can address the real problems.

TexasAggie73 said:

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Just think, it's harder to adopt an animal at a pound than to but a weapon.

---

Really? A felon can adopt animal but can't buy a gun. There is no background check to adopt a pet. Etc it's not hard to adopt a pet.

txagB2 said:

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TheCurl84 said:

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robbio said:

---

From a friend of mine...

(1) Call it what you want.....any firearm that is either semi- or automatic with multiple magazines is capable of discharging, reloading and discharging again, enough rounds to do great damage. You already know that. (2) The 18 year olds in the military are given extensive training on the care and use and safety of the firearms, and even then do not have continuous and unfettered access to the firearm and ammunition. Just because a person has had 18 birthdays does not mean he has any qualification whatsoever to be using a firearm (or purchase alcohol....). And, yes, I was using firearms at that age but had several years of careful supervision, including being taught to be keenly aware of the sanctity of life, and to own the bullet that is discharged. (3) And, yes, I have a safe full of guns and would not want my 2nd amendment right to be infringed upon. I have no problem for a waiting period between purchase and delivery of a weapon. I have no problem with expanded background checks, including private sales. I have no problem with a period between multiple purchases (I can acquire a safe full of guns in a year's time.) 'Red flag' laws sound good in the current distress but care should be taken that individuals cannot abuse and weaponize that scenario against whomever they choose. (4) We should harden the school targets with personnel and technology. If we can find $40 Billion for Ukraine in a few days, we can find the money to equip our schools. I support the concept of Heroes to Halls----using retired military and police to guard our children. (5) We should overhaul the ATF and enforce the laws already on the books. There are bad actor gun dealers that routinely scoff at the ATF and sell to whomever has the cash."

---

This is a very reasonable post. There is nothing in what you wrote that could be considered anti-2A. There is room for improvements that do not deny a person's rights. I'm concerned when I read the hard core attitudes of some people on this forum.

---

That's the thing about reasonableness…. What is reasonable to you is not to others. Shall not be infringed is clear. Also, the feds have demonstrated time and time again they will abuse power granted to them, see Lois Lerner and the IRS, FISA warrants, Patriot act, etc…. We need to look at mental illness in this country and figure out why the family unit is so broken in most of these cases.

---

I don't disagree with you, except for the part about 'no infringement' being clear. I'm certain that you are a supporter of some existing laws to infringe upon a 2A right. You would, for example, favor preventing a convicted felon or a mentally unstable person from owning a firearm. Maybe you wouldn't but I suspect you would see some rules as reasonable. I'm just saying there are things we are doing and maybe more that can be done to ensure our rights are protected while keeping the public safer and the government in check.

I will say again though that I'm only in favor of practical solutions that address the real problems.

TexasAggie73 said:

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Just think, it's harder to adopt an animal at a pound than to but a weapon.

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No, it's not.

Marcus Brutus said:

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TexasAggie73 said:

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Just think, it's harder to adopt an animal at a pound than to but a weapon.

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Really? A felon can adopt animal but can't buy a gun. There is no background check to adopt a pet. Etc it's not hard to adopt a pet.

---

Most pounds will do an interview to see if one is suitable and some have a waiting period.

TexasAggie73 said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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TexasAggie73 said:

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Just think, it's harder to adopt an animal at a pound than to but a weapon.

---

Really? A felon can adopt animal but can't buy a gun. There is no background check to adopt a pet. Etc it's not hard to adopt a pet.

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Most pounds will do an interview to see if one is suitable and some have a waiting period.

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I think you've confused public pounds with private adoption groups.

If law prevents criminals and the mentally crazed from getting weapons, then you believe a lie.

Trump Jr made this point and it's a good one.

The left would have you believe a 6 yr old is mature enough to decide to change their genders, but an 18 yr old that's old enough to got to war for their country isn't mature enough to own a weapon.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

NICU Dad said:

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Trump Jr made this point and it's a good one.

The left would have you believe a 6 yr old is mature enough to decide to change their genders, but an 18 yr old that's old enough to got to war for their country isn't mature enough to own a weapon.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

---

Even an 18 year old must satisfy certain requirements to enter the military.

Aston04 said:

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Unpopular opinion here but a restriction to 21 makes sense. Most people have gotten over whatever bs they were worried about in high school by then.

If we can't restrict guns to an extent, then don't restrict cigarettes and beer. That's ridiculous.

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Don't know if you read my post a page or 2 back, but the age restriction has already been held unconstitutional by the most liberal court in America. The US Supreme Court has not ruled on it.

And government can restrict the sale of tobacco and beer because possessing them is not a constitutional right. So a HUGE difference between those and firearms.

TexasAggie73 said:

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NICU Dad said:

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Trump Jr made this point and it's a good one.

The left would have you believe a 6 yr old is mature enough to decide to change their genders, but an 18 yr old that's old enough to got to war for their country isn't mature enough to own a weapon.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

---

Even an 18 year old must satisfy certain requirements to enter the military.

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True. But no 6 yr old is mature enough to make a decision to mutilate themselves for 'gender transitioning."

I agree about the 6 year old, but I was just addressing the military age. I respect the military too much to accept the fact that just anybody age 18 can join.

As Donald Trump, Jr. posted on Truth Social today….


"I'm trying to figure out why six-year-olds are responsible enough to be able to cut off their reproductive organs and change their sex but 18-year-olds are not responsible enough to buy a firearm? Any thoughts?"

TexasAggie73 said:

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NICU Dad said:

---

Trump Jr made this point and it's a good one.

The left would have you believe a 6 yr old is mature enough to decide to change their genders, but an 18 yr old that's old enough to got to war for their country isn't mature enough to own a weapon.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

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Even an 18 year old must satisfy certain requirements to enter the military.

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You dont have a right to join the military

WestTexasAg said:

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I grew up around guns, and hunted as a kid. Mostly used shotguns. I now have a couple of semi-auto rifles and a couple of handguns as well. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing 21 being the required age to be able to purchase a semi-auto long gun. You can't buy a beer or cigarettes until you are 21.

This wouldn't solve everything, but it would keep the bullied 18 year old high schooler from making an impulse buy and then creating atrocities like we just saw in Uvalde.

Yes, I realize 18 year olds can fight for this country and carry a semi-auto weapon. However, that is after proper training in the military.

What are your thoughts? Would this be a reasonable change?

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If there's one thing I would change, it would be limitations on 18-20 year olds. Yes, they can be issued a weapon in the military, but this is under a disciplinary regime that theoretically makes them safety conscious and limits the ways in which they use the weapon. Perhaps the answer is a high school training program which teaches them the rights and responsibilities of owning a firearm, much like driver's ed.

That might satisfy the "well-regulated militia" canard so often raised by the left.